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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Envix]
    #26639649 - 04/30/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
Oh no im not saying you can achieve peak mental health in isolation, well i mean, maybe you can. Monks can. But thats not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that you shouldnt make yourself depressed for being alone or feeling lonely. There is nothing wrong with it and being depressed about it is just going to make it harder to talk to people. I dont think people should buy into this hype that social interaction is NECESSARY for happiness, because it isnt.




Actually research shows it is NECESSARY for happiness but the degree varies. It’s not that we make ourselves feel depressed or sad when alone, that is what happens when we are alone. Humans are social creatures, we only achieve when united. A single human is not much but a tribe is a force. One needs only to look at infants to see an example.

Also monks aren’t really a good example. There are plenty of cases where they commit sexual transgressions against others, same with priests. It’s what happens when you try to will away something.

Also the fact that you are on a forum, stating your points and trying to seek some kind of validation for them sort of shoots your OP in the foot.


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26639665 - 04/30/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Oh, i'm not trying to prove anything. That's why i didnt cite any sources. I'm just sharing a thought i had and was curious about others views on the topic


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smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Envix]
    #26639683 - 04/30/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Uh huh


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26639700 - 04/30/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Envix]
    #26639712 - 04/30/20 06:39 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I believe even the most antisocial people still need some human interaction. They punish prisoners with isolation.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/emotional-nourishment/201612/why-we-need-each-other

Humans, because of necessity, evolved into social beings. Dependence on and cooperation with each other enhanced our ability to survive under harsh environmental circumstances. Although the survival threats of these circumstances have lessened in today’s world, people continue to have a need to affiliate with others. Indeed, the lack of such connections can lead to many problems, including loneliness.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Envix]
    #26639727 - 04/30/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
Monks can.



I've lived as a Buddhist monk, several times. They have a ton of social interaction, amongst themselves and in their community.

It IS necessary. It's a nice idea that it wouldn't be. We're all free to tell ourselves whatever stories we like though.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26639739 - 04/30/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I love isolation in the right space, sometimes I think I could isolate in the mountains for the rest of my life, but I have no idea what it would be like if I stopped all interactions with everyone I don't think it's even possible.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: trees]
    #26639747 - 04/30/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well sooner or later you'd have to get supplies from town or have it delivered. I guess you could just hide when they came by. I do think some people can isolate better than others, but eventually it seems like it could drive a person mad in certain ways. Those Buddhists still have each other close by even though they are isolated.


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InvisibleMethodicalMystical
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26639749 - 04/30/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

What about, in addition to the quantity of socialization, there is the quality to consider?

Since a person's exact needs are as unique as their fingerprints, the personal and social life needed to feel satisfied also varies. Those who follow the path of monks or other 'holy men' (with and without quotes) tend to do so because they feel no one else around them has the ability to meet those needs. Of course, this doesn't mean they always find the peace they look for, or learn to healthily manage the rest of their needs on a personal level...

You may not be able to change things that happen to you from the outside world, but looking into why you react the way you do to certain situations (which is learned... socially) is a step towards learning to change how you respond to things. Doesn't mean that you won't feel sad when you're lonely, but it makes it more likely that you find a healthy way to cope with it instead of falling into a downwards spiral.

Maybe you could accomplish all that by yourself, but... that would be like saying a house can maybe build itself if you leave the timber and tools there long enough. It's just more practical to find people to help you build it before it rots away...


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I know I'm a fool, but that's why I keep trying to learn.
:peace::heart::mushroom2:

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Invisibletrees
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26639768 - 04/30/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Well sooner or later you'd have to get supplies from town or have it delivered. I guess you could just hide when they came by. I do think some people can isolate better than others, but eventually it seems like it could drive a person mad in certain ways. Those Buddhists still have each other close by even though they are isolated.




The people who do best and thrive in isolation usually have their own land with endless projects and personal work to do so they never go crazy. At least in the stories I've been inspired by


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: trees] * 1
    #26639778 - 04/30/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I feel i wasnt being specific enough in this discussion. I'm specificlly talking about verbal spoken word discussion, as in "socializing", hanging out with friends, going out, etc what everyone is all depressed over not being able to do during lockdown. Not body language, not sign language. Just, the modern view of being "social" and being talkative and carrying on conversations


--------------------
smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26639787 - 04/30/20 07:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Envix said:
Monks can.



I've lived as a Buddhist monk, several times. They have a ton of social interaction, amongst themselves and in their community.

It IS necessary. It's a nice idea that it wouldn't be. We're all free to tell ourselves whatever stories we like though.




So you are saying all the monks get sad when they have to sit in silence for hours at a time or when they have to take a vow of silence for prolonged periods of time as part of an initiation ritual?


--------------------
smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Envix]
    #26639796 - 04/30/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

You definitely don't need full on social life to be happy. Just enough to stay mentally human and considerate of your familys concern for you at least, I'd say


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26639797 - 04/30/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
...
I feel from the very core of my being that having good social connections is one of the absolute core tenets of being mentally healthy. I don't think it is possible to be so without them.




What are your feelings with regards to Yogins?
Or, even, aesectic withdrawal more generally?

Hinduism has a really strong cultural tradition of social withdrawal
this is typically to be reserved for retirement age, after having engaged with the social world and found the fulfillments that provides
but it is considered to be more 'spiritually advanced' to skip over the worldly life and become a renunciate in the individual's early 20s

Buddhism, at least as it has survived to today,
is more socially engaged in terms of its aescetic traditions
with prolonged isolated periods of meditation considered highly beneficial
with the interesting provision that some traditions even argue that a Yogin who spends the vast majority of their life alone in a cave meditating
is "doing more" for the universal compassion, via the strength of their meditative visualizations

but this is not just an Eastern tendency
there is a tradition I am less familiar with in Christianity known as the Desert Fathers and Mothers
who would also withdraw from society for periods

have to dig around a bit, but watched a BBC documentary or something at one point
where a dude mimicked these forms of social withdrawal
and there was a neat one where he went out into the desert to spend time with a Christian hermit who has been out there feverishly praying for years if not decades

but is the presumed strength of their spiritual accomplishments, perhaps linked to a mental imbalance?


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26639817 - 04/30/20 07:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
...
have to dig around a bit, but watched a BBC documentary or something at one point
where a dude mimicked these forms of social withdrawal
and there was a neat one where he went out into the desert to spend time with a Christian hermit who has been out there feverishly praying for years if not decades
...




Found it, this guy



this is an hour long one focused specifically on Christian desert aesceticism
but in other episodes he did things like a withdrawal in a traditional sealed meditation chamber outside of a small village

the experiences of the dude in the documentary definitely reflect the psychological struggle involved in all this
even having someone else there to act as a sort of guide
and with the knowledge that he is filming content that will eventually connect with millions worldwide

but he is also pursuing very real traditions of extreme withdrawal that are considered to advance the individual further
(tho often with the provision that the individual will eventually return to the world to provide their lessons to the broader community)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26639826 - 04/30/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I find it odd that humans get fulfillment out of actions that make them less....human.

I don’t really see there to be any lessons in such actions. Though I guess if someone believes as such then I guess it’s as worthwhile as anything else


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26639831 - 04/30/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I was just thinking about you the other day in my car


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: morrowasted]
    #26639834 - 04/30/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Personally I don’t think isolation works for everyone, not me anyway. But in my case I never had a real friendship so I have no idea what one looks like or how it works or what to do.


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Offlinewatermelon mon
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26640049 - 04/30/20 10:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not lonely. Being alone and stuff is ok for a fair amount of time.
One day i do hope to meet just 1 person to be close with.

Have helthy acquaintances with pretty much everybody.
They go their way and i go mine.

I enjoy mostly keeping to myself. Letting people be. I don't really show too much love out there. Also have zero opinion.

not sure why i do that on here. It just seems chill.

I am a bit wierd but it's not in a bad way.

I have definitely met a few people who i would call super weird, like in a really bad way.
feel bad to say it. It's only because they definitely did really sick and messed up things.

So in my opinion non of us are weird in a bad way.


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    :dazedandconfused:


Edited by watermelon mon (04/30/20 10:28 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Do we really need to talk to people to be happy? [Re: watermelon mon]
    #26640057 - 04/30/20 10:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Everyone has opinions though


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