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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 20 days, 14 hours
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26656509 - 05/08/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: destiny just means you decline to examine the situation and its history. it's a quick reversal from the gates of analysis.
we cannot prop up the philosophical baggage of free will by tying its meaning to the opposite of destiny.
no scary destiny no jealous god just universe and some precious life, lots to care about without clamoring to join the ranks of empty argumenters bolstering traditional axioms.
i don't think destiny is any of those things.
i think destiny is a time traveling neuronal process.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26656609 - 05/08/20 04:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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that means you think time unravels or unrolls what has been prepackaged.
ok. that is what you think.
i think there is no mechanism that rolls up space into time in that way, and that events in the universe are interactions that have not previously occurred, or put there by any super being or dimensional demon.
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Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26657007 - 05/08/20 09:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Imo there is no pre-packaging but there is a self. Destiny is like the input of the self where tendencies manifest continually where it seems to be out of control where specific outcomes are just destined to occur.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26657223 - 05/08/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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what then does just "destined to occur" mean, remember you are defining "destiny", and it would not suffice just to use the same word (destined) to define this one, nor would any synonym provide a definition.
probably destiny is an unexamined part of your cosmology, and you just refer to it like any inherited thing, without questioning.
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Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26657402 - 05/08/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Destiny is like the input of the self where tendencies manifest continually where it seems to be out of control where specific outcomes are encouraged to occur.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26657989 - 05/08/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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now it sounds due to the inclusion of "encouraged to occur" as if it is what "will" is supposedly to be.
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Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26659752 - 05/09/20 10:55 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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But will is within control...
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 20 days, 14 hours
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26659923 - 05/09/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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is what Yellow Pants is saying that the actions themselves encourage the outcomes?
the outcomes just a translation of low the actions interacted with the environment.
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Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26660023 - 05/09/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Seems reasonable
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26660316 - 05/09/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Free will is an absolutely necessary corollary to the experience of being or having a (separate, autonomous, unitary) self or individuality.
But a totally absurd concept to anyone undergoing "ego death", or remaining in such a state.
Not surprisingly, this is so obvious, everyone always overlooks it, and wants to take sides on the issue as if there was one 'correct' answer. Seems only in Buddhism do we find a teaching about conventional reality, vs a deeper reality. And this particular point, is never specifically mentioned. (In science: "the quantum world vs the conventional world" of course has nothing much useful to say about human experience. It is only the new age types that like to exploit the metaphor, to prove some rather lame ideas. But that is of no concern here).
Also overlooked is that just as no one predicted either the computer revolution, or the effects of the internet, or effects of the smart phones-- there is another technology about to change everything that is not just more electronics (like AI is). But we are so impressed by ourselves & our invention of our electronics that, that is all we see. When the potential of CRISPR begins to be realized, and some totalitarian government begins seriously tampering with human genes, we will no longer be in Kansas, (assuming of course we survive Covid-19, climate change, etc etc.).
At the present time most everything can be hacked, and knowledge of the extent of backdoors is of course unknown. So how this might effect some early attempts, at some initial sort of connected neural networks, is unknown. The existence of cyber wars, the success of Stuxnet and the possible existence of Nitro Zeus, also suggest, that the idea of an isolated AI that is at same time, knowledgable as regards all connections, is a logical impossibility. And once connected it becomes hackable, by previously existing programs designed to hack new activities. Perhaps all the space junk beginning to effect new satellites, is a similar situation, in some ways. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Stuxnet%2C+Nitro+Zeus&t=hd&ia=web
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nooneman
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,683
Loc: Utah
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26660446 - 05/09/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Man, that would be awesome if AI could interfere with free will. I could use AI to force myself to do all the stuff that I need to do but have been putting off. I could make myself super productive like 12 hours a day 7 days a week, and super happy being that productive too. It would be cool as fuck if AI could influence free will, sign me the fuck up.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
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Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: nooneman]
#26661078 - 05/09/20 10:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Man, that would be awesome if AI could interfere with free will. I could use AI to force myself to do all the stuff that I need to do but have been putting off. I could make myself super productive like 12 hours a day 7 days a week, and super happy being that productive too. It would be cool as fuck if AI could influence free will, sign me the fuck up.
It would entail a robot bossing you around all day. Sound like fun?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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