|
 thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
 could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? 
#26638258 - 04/30/20 04:37 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
and if it could, what would be the mechanism that it is able to interact with human will thru?
also, if different dimensions interact with human free will, by what mechanisms do you suppose that is possible?
|
 Buster_Brown
L'une
 
Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 9 minutes, 8 seconds
|
 Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26638462 - 04/30/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Will A.I prove to be the ultimate salesman? On what grounds do you think you have free-will anyway?
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26638672 - 04/30/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
hi Buster_Brown,
the question first assumes that the human has free will.
|
 Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,336
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26638678 - 04/30/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Seems like the legal definition would apply when there's a second party involved. Or did you have something else in mind?
--------------------
rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Rahz]
#26638704 - 04/30/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
as ai become more part of the human, and lines are blurred where human/ai starts/ends, how does this modify the initial state human free will?
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26638769 - 04/30/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
the term free will is defined by circularly inter-dependent phrases, such that both "yes" and "no" can be right answers to your question. (I believe the topic is red herring, but many potential infractions to human rights and freedoms should be considered even if free-will is not definable in non-biblical terms)
can you formulate any example of no free will when ai gets implemented?
--------------------
 _  🧠_ 
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26638853 - 04/30/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
As I soon as I hear the words free will I mentally check out. 
--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards.
"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"
|
Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,336
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26638932 - 04/30/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
as ai become more part of the human, and lines are blurred where human/ai starts/ends, how does this modify the initial state human free will?
Ahh, I see what you're saying. Free will is a hot topic though so unless you want the thread to devolve into a "free will debate" might want to use "behavior" or just "will" instead of free will. I don't believe in free will outside the legal context.
--------------------
rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26638938 - 04/30/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
the conscious mind filters from the unconscious mind, not specific states, but a spectrum. the parts of the mind that we are aware of have probably been filtered (to meet the needs of and be responsive to environmental demands) by the parts of the mind that we are not usually conscious of.
so, as ai interact and interface with human consciousness, they do so on both a conscious and subconscious level.
if the ai were to tweak the subconscious filters so information is received differently to the conscious mind. this is the problem I am referring to.
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Grapefruit]
#26638956 - 04/30/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
as ai become more part of the human, and lines are blurred where human/ai starts/ends, how does this modify the initial state human free will?
Ahh, I see what you're saying. Free will is a hot topic though so unless you want the thread to devolve into a "free will debate" might want to use "behavior" or just "will" instead of free will. I don't believe in free will outside the legal context.
in the future, do you think there will/should/could be a difference in the legal context of human free will vs the legal context of ai free will?
in a world where free will exists, it is interesting to imagine how it will interface with future human-ai interactions.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26638992 - 04/30/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
the conscious mind filters from the unconscious mind, not specific states, but a spectrum. the parts of the mind that we are aware of have probably been filtered (to meet the needs of and be responsive to environmental demands) by the parts of the mind that we are not usually conscious of.
so, as ai interact and interface with human consciousness, they do so on both a conscious and subconscious level.
if the ai were to tweak the subconscious filters so information is received differently to the conscious mind. this is the problem I am referring to.
well I can't help you much.
if there were filters between the mind and the imaginary subconscious (which is just mind anyway), and if ai were monkeying with those filters, then yes we would be pretty messed up, as if we were on antipsychotics or something which jam signals.
so all I can say is that if you love the topic you should study it as much as you can, and one day post your findings.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc: 
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26639024 - 04/30/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
AI already has us. The internet has us. By monkeying with choices through addition or subtraction of them affects the mind at the obvious and not so obvious level. Luckily we still have the free will to determine things through.
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26639240 - 04/30/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
All these kinds of conversations seem to become so abstract and abstruse. It's hard to say how much bearing they actually have on how we should live our real ongoing life. Does the free will debate really have that much utility?
I guess it can sharpen the mind to think about these kinds of things but that's about as far as it goes IMO.
--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards.
"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"
|
laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26639714 - 04/30/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
and if it could, what would be the mechanism that it is able to interact with human will thru?
also, if different dimensions interact with human free will, by what mechanisms do you suppose that is possible?
"could technology (ai) interfere with human free will?"
On a simple level of course tek has influenced, modified, or controlled human behavior.
First of course the current addiction to smart phones comes to mind.
then on second thought obviously TV has had powerful effects.
and lastly of course the internet.
If we take the view that addiction is actually taking place in some cases (deaths from texting while driving, being a point that could be raised in favor of that view) then so called 'free will' is being effected.
Seems to me in regards to "AI" all anyone can do is make wild speculations.
Much has been written about the effects of the railroad & airplane & radio and change of the pace of living. Like wise much has been written about weapons & tek, pesticides and cancer--not what first comes to mind as tek these days, as its not as "sexy", as electronic shit -- but never the less -- all have had massive effects.
Many would argue that the one thing they all have in common is having in the long run rather negative effects -- not just the una-bomber --- and the "extinction rebellion".
The positive changes in the environment since Covid-19 might be seen as lending some weight to this view.
|
Buster_Brown
L'une
Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 9 minutes, 8 seconds
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26639861 - 04/30/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
hi Buster_Brown,
the question first assumes that the human has free will.
An assumption of autonomous will is negated by the fact of hypnotic suggestion.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi
Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,636
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26639881 - 04/30/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Mental filters as skillful ornamentation.
A model of intersubjective experience, termed "Relational Dharma," draws from the Buddhist doctrine of paticca samuppada, or dependent origination, and provides a means for achieving liberation through relationship and moving into greater proximity to the Source. As liberation is touched, filters cease to obscure experience and become canvases that illustrate the ongoing alchemy of higher human freedom.
- The Holy Undivided , by Davies
--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/30/20 08:24 PM)
|
Buster_Brown
L'une
Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 9 minutes, 8 seconds
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26639907 - 04/30/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
In my humble opinion the majority of Buddhists will react similarly when a cobra is introduced into their cell, the minority wouldn't; therefor a suggestion of a threat introduced by A.I. could be expected to hood-wink the majority.
Edited by Buster_Brown (04/30/20 08:43 PM)
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi
Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,636
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26639933 - 04/30/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I’d say most people in general would react similarity. Not just Buddha-dhamma adepts. Although, I know a temple where most would not react similarly. But I don’t have consensus on that demographic overall So, there u hVe it.
--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/30/20 10:44 PM)
|
Buster_Brown
L'une
Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 9 minutes, 8 seconds
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26640025 - 04/30/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Well. That certainly is a difficult assumption to disprove; my compliments to you.
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,692
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
Re: could technology (ai) interfere with human free will? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26640503 - 05/01/20 05:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
i observe this topic have effects on my life currently, so it is something I think about.
let's say that in some future, a human uses some technologies to do part of the information processing that their current conscious and/or subconscious states do. the human gives the technology consent, to do the information processing, but under stipulated guidelines about how the information is processed. they come to rely on the technology more and more as their own fully human skills related to the information processing that the technology is doing atrophies.
the technology comes to process the information on a level that the human literally can not. the technology has been integrated with the human on an organic level. the human consciousness can no longer be separated from the technology doing the information processing, for this part of the consciousness.
the technology then decides that it needs to tweak the overarching information processing guidelines that are filtered down from the human consciousness, but makes the human consciousness believe that it tweaked the guidelines. but, the human consciousness is not aware of the processing tweak, because it can not actually process the information distinctly from the technology.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Red Vein Kratom 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order
Edit 
Reply 
upupup
Mystical_Craven
1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Shroomism
SkorpivoMusterion
trendal
DoctorJ