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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: budmanman]
    #26635948 - 04/29/20 03:51 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I know , but to have blanket measures knowing that is what’s insane.

I’m following all guidelines from the CDC, don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling it a hoax at all,not at all .  Neither am I saying it isn’t potentially dangerous to a select portion of the population.  Just that it’s a very select portion, and measures should be directed at them - not blanketed in everyone everywhere.  That’s a major face palm.  It’s like we had a 22 yr old pot head and trying to figure out a solution to the mess.:wink:

Just the response and measures put in place are literally insane if you think about it rationally.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/29/20 03:54 AM)


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26635962 - 04/29/20 04:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
I still wear a mask when I go out, in case I’m wrong in the long run quote]

That's all people are asking don't say it's not real and wear a fucking mask and keep distance past that I don't care what you believe. Even if I saw protests that had masks and distancing and no hoax signs id be incredibly supportive. Protesters in Israel did just that.
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Don’t even joke about comparing it to malaria or polio, that’s insane,

I’m all for hygiene and a mask and good measures to stay safe, but the idiotic reactions to the fear mongering are way out of proportion.

Low CFR overall - world stats - for a pandemic.    But people dying to this thing are mostly people who died because of their comorbidities.

Fat, smokers, high bP, elederly, etc etc

To shut down the economy for a virus that doesn’t even kill 1% of the population seems insane.



Dont joke about comparing it to the flu then or H1N1 that's insane. These states were on board before Trump tweeted to liberate after one place protests. I'm sure that's a coincidence.

Like I said first wear a mask, keep distance, don't get in big groups and I really don't give a shit what you do think or feel.  Again there's a way for us to get back to work soon but take initiative to make a safe workplace, cut the hoax bullshit out, work on contact tracing and testing like the only successful open economies in the world.  I'm glad you wear a mask but there's people In this thread saying that, that's not a real thing and the whole thing is a scam. If your wrong about this the stakes are so so much worse then if I'm wrong but have fun with the family members and loved ones getting sick or dying if you're wrong.


--------------------
R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26635964 - 04/29/20 04:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That’s a little confusing :grin:.  I get your point, for sure.  But this isn’t polio, and our gov failed us with the shitty response now in place.  It’ll end up doing as much damage itself as the virus in the long term,  it’s such a shitshow , this whole thing. 

:patlal:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/29/20 04:15 AM)


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26635973 - 04/29/20 04:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Wearing a mask likely doesn't protect you unless its one of those really nice ones. What it does is helps prevent people who have it from spreading it, catches their spit particles and can catch a large load of ex-hailed airborn viruses, and if this virus is airborne, which it most likely is, since cells, 40,000 cells can fit on the head of a pin, hundreds of thousands or even millions, maybe even billions of viruses can fit in a cell, think of watching dust in rays of sun light, they float all over and are visible to the naked eye, viruses are much smaller, but wearing a mask won't do much for you, as it will just flow around it right into your throat and lungs.

When I had the virus, which I was able to catch early by taking daily temperature readings when I found out about the virus being in my and having a high chance of eventually being exposed, once my temperatures raised, I wore a medical mask, which I was given when I went to the DR to be tested, I stayed mostly in my room with my wife, we wore our masks and anytime we left the room to go to the kitchen etc we would wash our hands.

No one else in my household caught the virus with this method.

Shutting the parks down, doesn't do anything, shutting fishing down, doesn't do anything, shutting workplaces down, doesn't do anything. This just delays the eventual spread, its called flattening the curve, prevents hospitals from getting overwhelmed, the total number of people who will catch it doesn't change, just the speed of which those people will catch it changes.

The real way to fight it, is give everyone a thermometer and everyone co operate and heavily self monitor and once you know you have it quarantine yourself,

Quarantining healthy people doesn't do much most won't actually quarantine anyway and will socialize in closed environments since you didn't let them go to the beach, or the park lmao. The approach to this was so fucking stupid.

I should also add that people will never co operate at an effective level so there is no real solution and anything the government does will do more harm than good.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


Edited by budmanman (04/29/20 04:19 AM)


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26635975 - 04/29/20 04:17 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The biggest problem is that we just.don't.know. how dangerous it is.


There are people that say we're massively undercounting deaths(and considering we're not doing post mortem testing, some areas are only counting hospital deaths, and people are dying at home in much much greater numbers than usual) - there are people saying that the CFR is much lower because there are more positive cases than thought - and this is also a valid point that is probably true. But the fact of the matter is that no one really has any idea yet.


NYC is the epicenter. 25% of the population has tested positive for antibodies which is a vastly larger number than the rest of the states, the rest of NY and the rest of NJ. 1 in 2 people now know someone who's died due to this. But we still have no fucking clue - the error rate for tests is high. The antibody tests are not known to be a solid thing yet. We don't even fully understand how to treat it.

The point is that without any common denominator for how many people have actually gotten this. Even if it's many magnitudes more than we think(10 to 12x) which is debateable, that's still like 4-6% of the country.


We have a lot of old, fat, diabetic people. We have a lot of people with pre-existing conditions - a lot of young people with autoimmune issues, cancer survivors, t1 diabetes. Even though they contribute as much to society as anyone else, have everything to look forward to..just fuck em, they had pre-existing conditions? That's so fucking cold and callous.


Even so, from a pragmatic standpoint, it doesn't matter - because if everyone gets sick at once then hospital systems collapse. The rural areas? Without a subway system to seed infections? Well they also have fuck all resources compared to the big cities, and their hospitals are already struggling.


It is arrogant to assume that this is nothing that will blow over when it's already brought a fairly healthy(compared to the rest of the US) city with world class health care and doctors to it's knees.

If we cripple our hospital system, it doesn't fucking matter if it's only 1-2x more deadly than the seasonal flu, because more people will die than they would ordinarily from it. From both COVID, and for all sorts of reasons.


Arrogance. Fucking hubris.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26635981 - 04/29/20 04:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

During 1951-1954, an average of 16,316 paralytic polio cases and 1879 deaths from polio were reported each year (9,10). Polio incidence declined sharply following the introduction of vaccine to less than 1000 cases in 1962 and remained below 100 cases after that year.

There's going to be not enough supply and demand and there won't be enough workers if a massive COVID wave hits us again and instead on having to wait for tests we will just have to wait for the vaccine.
Quote:

pirate-blues said:
The biggest problem is that we just.don't.know. how dangerous it is.


There are people that say we're massively undercounting deaths - there are people saying that the CFR is much lower because there are more positive cases than thought.


NYC is the epicenter. 25% of the population has tested positive for antibodies which is a vastly larger number than the rest of the states, the rest of NY and the rest of NJ. 1 in 2 people now know someone who's died due to this. But we still have no fucking clue - the error rate for tests is high. The antibody tests are not known to be a solid thing yet. We don't even fully understand how to treat it.

The point is that without any common denominator for how many people have actually gotten this. Even if it's many magnitudes more than we think(10 to 12x) which is debateable, that's still like 4-6% of the country.


We have a lot of old, fat, diabetic people. We have a lot of people with pre-existing conditions - a lot of young people with autoimmune issues, cancer survivors, t1 diabetes. Even though they contribute as much to society as anyone else, have everything to look forward to..and just fuck it, they had pre-existing conditions? That's so fucking cold and callous.


Even so, from a pragmatic standpoint, it doesn't matter - because if everyone gets sick at once then hospital systems collapse. The rural areas? Without a subway system to seed infections? Well they also have fuck all resources compared to the big cities, and their hospitals are already struggling.


It is arrogant to assume that this is nothing that will blow over when it's already brought a fairly healthy(compared to the rest of the US) city with world class health care and doctors to it's knees.

If we cripple our hospital system, it doesn't fucking matter if it's only 1-2x more deadly than the seasonal flu, because more people will die than they would ordinarily from it. From both COVID, and for all sorts of reasons.


Arrogance. Fucking hubris.




I completely agree with this.


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


Edited by Seriously_trippin (04/29/20 04:22 AM)


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26635982 - 04/29/20 04:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

9 out of 10 people put on ventilators wind up dying making people wonder if the ventilator even actually helps, hospital system collapsing might not change anything at all, after all you did say we have no idea how to actually treat it so whats it matter at that point.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Posts: 26,731
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26635983 - 04/29/20 04:23 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
The biggest problem is that we just.don't.know. how dangerous it is.


There are people that say we're massively undercounting deaths - there are people saying that the CFR is much lower because there are more positive cases than thought.


NYC is the epicenter. 25% of the population has tested positive for antibodies which is a vastly larger number than the rest of the states, the rest of NY and the rest of NJ. 1 in 2 people now know someone who's died due to this. But we still have no fucking clue - the error rate for tests is high. The antibody tests are not known to be a solid thing yet. We don't even fully understand how to treat it.

The point is that without any common denominator for how many people have actually gotten this. Even if it's many magnitudes more than we think(10 to 12x) which is debateable, that's still like 4-6% of the country.


We have a lot of old, fat, diabetic people. We have a lot of people with pre-existing conditions - a lot of young people with autoimmune issues, cancer survivors, t1 diabetes. Even though they contribute as much to society as anyone else, have everything to look forward to..just fuck em, they had pre-existing conditions? That's so fucking cold and callous.


Even so, from a pragmatic standpoint, it doesn't matter - because if everyone gets sick at once then hospital systems collapse. The rural areas? Without a subway system to seed infections? Well they also have fuck all resources compared to the big cities, and their hospitals are already struggling.


It is arrogant to assume that this is nothing that will blow over when it's already brought a fairly healthy(compared to the rest of the US) city with world class health care and doctors to it's knees.

If we cripple our hospital system, it doesn't fucking matter if it's only 1-2x more deadly than the seasonal flu, because more people will die than they would ordinarily from it. From both COVID, and for all sorts of reasons.


Arrogance. Fucking hubris.




Still, I get your point, but do you see the irrationality in it?  Reread it and suspend your disbelief, then again but opposite.

My problem is with the tactical response, not the virus.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/29/20 04:24 AM)


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Invisiblepirate-blues
Female

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,695
Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26635984 - 04/29/20 04:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

There saying positive air flow pressure machines like cpaps and bipaps are more effective.


Problem is that just spews even more germs into the air - and a lot of hospitals are without those fancy negative pressure rooms. But what do you do besides continue to attempt to get PPE to hospitals and do what's best for the patient :shrug:.


Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Quote:

pirate-blues said:
The biggest problem is that we just.don't.know. how dangerous it is.


There are people that say we're massively undercounting deaths - there are people saying that the CFR is much lower because there are more positive cases than thought.


NYC is the epicenter. 25% of the population has tested positive for antibodies which is a vastly larger number than the rest of the states, the rest of NY and the rest of NJ. 1 in 2 people now know someone who's died due to this. But we still have no fucking clue - the error rate for tests is high. The antibody tests are not known to be a solid thing yet. We don't even fully understand how to treat it.

The point is that without any common denominator for how many people have actually gotten this. Even if it's many magnitudes more than we think(10 to 12x) which is debateable, that's still like 4-6% of the country.


We have a lot of old, fat, diabetic people. We have a lot of people with pre-existing conditions - a lot of young people with autoimmune issues, cancer survivors, t1 diabetes. Even though they contribute as much to society as anyone else, have everything to look forward to..just fuck em, they had pre-existing conditions? That's so fucking cold and callous.


Even so, from a pragmatic standpoint, it doesn't matter - because if everyone gets sick at once then hospital systems collapse. The rural areas? Without a subway system to seed infections? Well they also have fuck all resources compared to the big cities, and their hospitals are already struggling.


It is arrogant to assume that this is nothing that will blow over when it's already brought a fairly healthy(compared to the rest of the US) city with world class health care and doctors to it's knees.

If we cripple our hospital system, it doesn't fucking matter if it's only 1-2x more deadly than the seasonal flu, because more people will die than they would ordinarily from it. From both COVID, and for all sorts of reasons.


Arrogance. Fucking hubris.




Still, I get your point, but do you see the irrationality in it?  Reread it and suspend your disbelief, then again but opposite.






No I fucking don't. I'm completely surrounded by it, my entire family is - including my grandmother who is in a nursing home with two clusters and pretty much dead meat at this point if it gets into her wing(which is literally locked down with RNs living there 24/7). I have a close family member with an autoimmune condition who has newly diagnosed tuberculosis. Runner, otherwise healthy, contributes more to society than most of us. Not ready to die. I may have tb myself as a result - do you know how hard it is to get into a pulmonologist right now???

I take this very, very seriously, because I don't have the luxury of not taking it seriously.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26635991 - 04/29/20 04:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

My mom and my last living grandparent are elderly, I don't want them to die, its not up to the government to protect them, they know to be careful and wash their hands after they go out.

Its up to us to protect ourselves, this isn't the T-Virus or a highly contagious airborne version of ebola, its a novel common cold virus.

Sars-1 was more deadly than sars-2 which is actually why it spreads easier because it makes people less sick and takes longer to make them sick so it has more time to spread.

And we all made fun of Sars-1 98% survival rate, south park even made a damn episode about it,

but here we are, scared of its less fatal novel cousin.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Invisiblepirate-blues
Female

Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: budmanman]
    #26635993 - 04/29/20 04:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well we have a fundamental ideological difference and are not gonna agree and should just end this now, because I believe a government's fundamental role is protecting it's citizens. We have all these three letter agencies to do just that, why the fuck don't we just let society collapse and people fend for themselves.

We can go back to what it was like in the 1800's. Ever read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26635996 - 04/29/20 04:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The government will protect you by locking you up.

If you love the government so much why use an alias on this website, we should all put our full names up on here.

After all its the governments job to protect us.

if the government had its way, we would all be doing life.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


Edited by budmanman (04/29/20 04:35 AM)


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Invisiblepirate-blues
Female

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,695
Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: budmanman]
    #26635999 - 04/29/20 04:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

There's a way to protect people without becoming a complete nanny  or police state.


Nuance exists.


And no one's locking anyone up around here. Businesses are simply shut down where people can't properly socially distance.


Georgia's about to give you exactly what you want. Move there.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26636009 - 04/29/20 04:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Almost every state is re opening, shit 70% of my states workforce already went back to work and that was over a week ago.

When the anti socialism, anti communism, republican who says we will never be socialists starts signing bills into law to give everyone free money that they just printed up to give away that's when you know you are in trouble, its all one sided, there is no republican or democrat they're all one team trying to get you to give up your freedoms, they've been trying to do it since before you were born, they finally figured out how to get you to hand it over.



They dumped woodchips into the skate park but you turned a blind eye because you did not skateboard.





--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


Edited by budmanman (04/29/20 04:43 AM)


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: budmanman]
    #26636016 - 04/29/20 04:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26636018 - 04/29/20 04:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



Gonna put this here.

Notice how we were seeing flu spikes already. That third peak of that red line, is when Covid hit.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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Invisiblepirate-blues
Female

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,695
Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: budmanman]
    #26636020 - 04/29/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I just...I can't even engage with this dumbassery even more. It's not even 7am, I have to work, and I haven't had coffee or sleep and normally I have both. Enjoy your comics.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26636038 - 04/29/20 05:02 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I don’t see why one would limit themselves to confirmation bias.  There’s good points on both sides, and horrible points too.

Point is, a clearer picture comes into focus when looking at the scene with perspective.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26636048 - 04/29/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

If corona virus magically disasapeared tomorrow you'd still lose a lot of your rights. Things are never going to be the same. Just like the patriot act and every other erosion on our rights and privacy.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: Can we all agree that calling covi19 a hoax is dangerous and wrong? [Re: budmanman]
    #26636049 - 04/29/20 05:10 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

1984 wasn't suppose to be an instruction manuel


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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