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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround * 1
    #26634998 - 04/28/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, first off, take EVERYTHING I am saying in this post with a grain of salt. I am not an experienced grower. I am the farthest thing from a botanist, horticulturist, or mycologist.

But I have seen that in a great many posts here and all over the web, that the SGFC seems to have sort of fallen out of favor with many people. The problem is that, while I know nothing about nothing on this topic, it really seems to me that, on paper, the theory of an SGFC is incredibly sound and should create the perfect fruiting environment for our cakes. RogerRabbit, arguably one of the foremost experts in mycology, clearly stated that the SGFC, when made properly, with enough holes and at least 4-5 inches of Perlite, should be ideal. He further states in one of the growing videos he posted that Perlite should (paraphrasing here) hold the water you initially irrigated it with for at least 30 days. And this is probably true for a lot of people.

Now I posted a thread [here] this morning because all 24 of my cakes seemed to have stalled, which maybe they have, maybe they haven't. But maybe I have accidentally stumbled upon a possible flaw in the design that isn't actually with the SGFC itself, but perhaps ambient conditions in some places getting in the way? Take me, for example. I live in NY City, and while I have always thought of The Big Apple as being humid as hell, I'm starting to realize this isn't true. At least not indoors, which is all I care about for the purposes of fruiting conditions necessary for mushroom growth. I can't even imagine living in dry, arid places like Arizona, parts of California, New Mexico, West Texas, etc. I think I remember reading that some growers use humidifying systems to combat really low ambient humidity. If you look at my 4th picture, according to my old La Cross Wather Station, the humidity today in my bedroom, is a mere 37%. And I can assure you that this is a few mm HG above what it usually is. My closet is in the bedroom, but is actually almost always a couple of points lower than the rest of the bedroom, presumably because I leave the doors closed. Also, without any heat on, and its NOT AC weather yet, my bedroom is almost 80 degrees Farrenheight, while my closet is about 1-2 degrees higher. That probably isn't ideal for fruiting either.

Now the first picture just shows my basic n00b setup, which consists of two SGFCs, one from a 70 Quart Sterilite box and the other from the 30 Quart model. Note that I was meticulous about the holes, almost to the point of being anal. lol I even took a tape measure and a sharpie and marked off 2" distances between every hole in all directions, to make sure I drilled enough. I used more than enough perlite. Additionally, I mist my cakes regularly, too much probably, but I am dialing that back. Note also that my stalling cakes may, in fact be nothing more than over-misting, or as someone suggested in my thread, the cakes may not be stalled, but resting. Anyway, I decided to try an experiment for the benefit of the community, and am using my 24 stalled or resting cakes as guinea pigs.

My hypothesis, as n00b and uninformed as it may be, is that in my home, in the absence of any external humidifying apparatus, the ambient conditions (outside the SGFCs) are simply not ideal for fruiting. So I was considering investing in a humidifier, which I am still thinking about for the future. But for now, my lay evaluation is that its possible that the Perlite in my 2 SGFCs is simply drying out much faster than it would in other conditions of higher ambient humidity or the presence of artificial humidification. Now I want to digress for a moment and say that this thought actually occurred to me when I first started putting my birthed cakes in these terrariums, and I actually took pre-emptive steps. More on that in a second.

Just a little while ago I grabbed a measuring cup and kept filling it in the kitchen in 2 cup (16 ounce) increments. The intent was, instead of misting and/or fanning, that I would irrigate the perlite itself, and NOT the cakes directly. I poured water, trying my best to stream it a little on the slow side. I poured between all the cakes that had decent sized spaces of "white" perlite showing. I already knew that to try this experiment properly, I was going to have to pour a lot more water in than I believe the perlite wanted to accept and "hold" between all of the millions of little nooks and crannies and spaces between the tiny pieces. So, with that in mind, I covered the carpet below those SGFC's with newspapers, to absorb any spillage or splashing, and I put a metal bowl underneath wherever the water was leaking out, which I assumed was somewhat of a saturation point for all that perlite. I don't want my carpets to get mildewy obviously, so I kept the carpet as dry as possible with the newspapers. I started with the bigger tub, which holds more water and more perlite, and slowly poured/streamed water into all the spaces until water started leaking out. I waited until it stopped leaking. I then started pouring more into the some of the spaces I may have missed during my first pass. When water started leaking again, I stopped, put one, sometimes two bowls, below to catch the excess. Then I poured more water in, and did the same thing. I did this three or four times, then did the same rinse & repeat in the 30 Quart tub. Long story short, the big tub ended up taking about 6 cups of water. That's 48 fluid ounces, and all told, it only returned/spilled about a cup of excess water! The smaller SGFC took and spilled proportionally less. I will watch these terrariums over the next few days to see if they start fruiting again sooner rather than later.

***Note: For the sake of intellectual honest, I will say right now that even if my cakes magically start fruiting tomorrow, this does NOT prove my assertion correct. Not even close. Because anyone who wanted to call me on making such a claim could rightly say that for all I know those cakes were about to start fruiting aggressively anyway, and for a variety of reasons, it has nothing to do with the actions I just took. So this is 100% just a lay-person's hypothesis, no more no less. But if I am right, and this ends up being a way to deal with the complaints a lot of people have been making about the old school SGFC, then great. :mushroom2:

Edit: Also something you may want to take with a grain of salt is that I am using three cheap hygrometers in both those SGFCs. While I know they aren't very accurate, I will say this: for the past two weeks, they have ALL been reading humidity inside the terrariums of as low 80 degrees, sometimes a little lower. 30 minutes after I did this, all three are now reading in the low 90's again, like they were consistently a few weeks ago. Again, this proves NOTHING, since these aren't accurate at all. But I find it interesting that all three of them (two in the large box) almost immediately went north of 90's to within a mere 1 degree +/- of one another! Again, not even close to being proof, but it did make me a little excited nonetheless.

Edit 2: I forgot to mention that for as long as I continue to use these SGFCs for this grow, I am going to irrigate the perlite in both of them every day. The saturation point if I do it every day should be about 1/2 cup for the large one, and 1/4 for the smaller one. At least it was a few weeks ago, when I first came up with this hair-brained scheme. For some reason I stopped irrigating the Perlite about 3 weeks ago when I started harvesting. I guess I just forgot about it when I was so excited by the newfound bounty of my shrooms! lol









Edited by LSA Woodrose (04/28/20 06:25 PM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 3
    #26635029 - 04/28/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Wow that was alot.
Yeah basically you hit the nail on the head. Your outside RH is more important than the RH inside the tub. I have been arguing this point for a while.

Cool test. Can't wait to see the results.

Also I would say you have a pretty advanced understanding of this hobby already because.

1. You follow the Teks.
2. You question everything.

Those are the keys to learning. Follow and then test.

Most people just read a TEK and then insert their own bias and fail.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26635068 - 04/28/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Wow that was alot.




Yeah lol sorry about that, brother! I wanted to err on the side of a lot of detail, just in case, while groping in the dark of inexperience here, I accidentally stumbled onto something that turns out to be true! So if it is accurate, then the detail I would assume will be helpful.


Quote:

Sockadin said:
Yeah basically you hit the nail on the head. Your outside RH is more important than the RH inside the tub. I have been arguing this point for a while.




I think you and Mateah were both saying this, and if I'm not mistaken, its why he came up with his posts about HC as well as the one he invented, which is the Water HC. I am really starting to think that you and he may be 100% correct. It may have even the posts from you two about this that led me to come up with this little scheme of mine.

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Cool test. Can't wait to see the results.




You and me both! I will report back results here in this thread.

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Also I would say you have a pretty advanced understanding of this hobby already because.

1. You follow the Teks.
2. You question everything.

Those are the keys to learning. Follow and then test.

Most people just read a TEK and then insert their own bias and fail.




Thank you, brother! :mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26635614 - 04/28/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I see u put a lot of effort into this thinking. I like that :awehigh:

The main issue with the SGFC is that is dries out too quick. I use a modified SGFC which only has holes on 5 sides (the lid is left intact) and it does quite well. My next SGFC im trying 4 sides only (top and bottom in tact).


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26635704 - 04/29/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Have ppl tried going with smaller holes?  1/4” just seems too big... especially if it’s drying out regularly.. with a 1/16” bit you don’t have to heat the plastic up, it just zips right through.  Drilling a lot of them is no big deal.  Haven’t tried the 1/8” yet.

Faht


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: fahtster] * 1
    #26635706 - 04/29/20 12:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I havent tried 1/8". It might be too small. 3/16" may be a sweet spot thou.

Faht, do u think drilling holes on the bottom of the chamber is benefical?


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26635717 - 04/29/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well I’ve never done sgfc but the idea that it helps evaporation seems like a solid one.. makes sense to me. I usually had a lot of cakes in my FC, so they stayed pretty humid just from the cakes themselves.. my tubs definitely could have used more FAE back in the day tho.

That pic I showed of the PE cakes had a bunch of 1/16” holes drilled in it, but nowhere near the amount a sgfc calls for.


If you zoom in on that you can see there’s maybe 12-15 on each long side and a few on the short.  I didn’t put any on the bottom, but that’s just because I may use the tub for other grows than cakes and didn’t want it to be just a cake bin.  I also used a press n seal lid with needle holes every 2” or so so there’s a lot of FAE from that

Faht


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: fahtster] * 1
    #26635722 - 04/29/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Very cool.

My next SGFC, i doing a minimal amount of holes. Only the four vertical sides and only near the top. I bet it would do well.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26635968 - 04/29/20 04:13 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Forget about the hygrometers. The only humidity that actually matters is at the surface level of the substrate, and it won't measure that.

You can fruit cakes in the open air if you were around to mist enough. Fruiting Chambers are just a balancing act, you want the most FAE you can allow for the least amount of work (misting).
RR experimented until he found what he decided is the best balance using this type of FC

Cakes are actually pretty tricky to dial in I think. They're fickle bastards :lol:

With larger substrates, like tubs, they're big enough to provide their own surface humidity without needing any extra misting (when you balance the FAE in their tubs).

With cakes, I prefer to simply fruit them right out the top of their jars. I just open a ziplock bag and set it down over the jar. I give them a misting if the surface looks dry.
The jar keeps the cake from drying out and the substrate can provide the surface humidity.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: mushpunx] * 4
    #26636044 - 04/29/20 05:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I did a sgfc with 3/8 inch holes it worked awesome.

People always talk about their location. Indoor conditions are usually pretty dry and around 65-75f. The sgfc is made to deal with the dry indoor conditions. It was invented by RR so he could grow in winter on a mountain in Washington state in a dry ass wood fired home while being gone 8-10+ hours a day.

Stop measuring humidity. Chamber humidity does not matter much. Surface humidity on your cakes does but you can't measure that anyway. Chamber humidity can swing wildly from 50 to 80%


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26636050 - 04/29/20 05:10 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting. I will have to try out 3/8" holes next time :strokebeard:

Thanks Bodhi :thumbup:


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26636142 - 04/29/20 06:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Very interesting responses.

Something just occurred to me while reading about FAE after you guys mentioned it in a few posts above. Is it reasonable, without some form of air circulation system, to expect the necessary amount of FAE with two boxes, side by side, in a large closet, with the doors closed almost all of the time? I'll post a pic of my setup so you can see for yourselves whether or not I have enough "room" in that closet to allow for or facilitate FAE. Oh and just so you know, since it isn't apparent in that picture, there is at least 2" and in some cases 5" of space on every side of each of the SGFCs. So none of the sides are blocked by the proximity of the other SGFC, closet doors, or a wall. They sit on two sticks I put in there as makeshift "shelves" but that don't block the holes. Since the sticks are only about 1 in diameter, I was able to situate both terrariums so there was not a single hole on the bottom that is blocked.

Anyway, I have never read any cautionary tales on the web about how closets were too cramped, even with space on every single side of your SGFC. But it seems like it could be a viable concern. I know the common wisdom is NOT to fan your cakes, but it makes me wonder if I should start fanning again for this reason?



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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26636146 - 04/29/20 06:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

i have always found its better to have fewer larger holes... u get way too much evaporation with tons of little ones.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: mushpunx]
    #26636188 - 04/29/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Cakes are actually pretty tricky to dial in I think. They're fickle bastards :lol:



I find cakes to be the opposite of tricky and fickle when grown in environments that resemble their natural habitat rather than 'wildly swinging humidities' throughout the day. It's actually amazing how predictable their behavior can be when grown in more stabile climates.

Quote:

With larger substrates, like tubs, they're big enough to provide their own surface humidity without needing any extra misting




This sounds a lot closer to mimicking natural environment to me, I think thats why bulk subs in unmodified tubs are so successful.


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Cakes inside Water Tub


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Mateja]
    #26636209 - 04/29/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Makes sense, I see people say using double the normal amount of perlite helps a lot but adding water probably does the same thing.

I agree rh isn’t a huge deal, I was rocking 8% here the last two days and still haven’t needed to mist my tubs.

All about dialing your shit in.


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Edited by A.k.a (04/29/20 07:39 AM)


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: A.k.a]
    #26636217 - 04/29/20 07:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The idea of a SGFC is to help dial it in.

Woodrose. I fan my SGFC all the time. I don't remember anyone saying it isn't needed.

If you have central Heat and AC it will move air in and out of the closets. But if you don't, you might aim a fan at the closet once a day.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin] * 3
    #26636277 - 04/29/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The only way to increase FAE is to add more holes, crack the lid, etc.
FAE is passive, happening all the time thru the holes.
Whatever fanning accomplishes happens , will happen on its own thru the holes.


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Edited by mushpunx (04/29/20 08:52 AM)


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26636425 - 04/29/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
The idea of a SGFC is to help dial it in.

Woodrose. I fan my SGFC all the time. I don't remember anyone saying it isn't needed.




I have to go back through my thread, but there was definitely a presence in there, among some of the veteran posters on this forum, that were saying that fanning was a waste of time. Since I’m looking to try to revitalize the cakes in my two terrariums, I started fanning again as soon as I read your message. I just take the covers off, and I use one of the covers to fan for about a minute and 30 seconds. Is that enough if I do it once a day?


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26636532 - 04/29/20 10:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Fanning will only benefit you as an exercise.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned] * 2
    #26636555 - 04/29/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Fanning will only benefit you as an exercise.




lol

Although, let’s be honest. Fanning for a minute or two once a day, would only be exercise to a 95-year-old lady who has been sedentary for the last 30 years.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26636632 - 04/29/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Fanning once or twice a day will distribute the RH around the cakes and even out the dry air flowing through the tub due to passive FAE.

Alot of people see a TC make a comment 1 time and run with it because someone once said something and most people don't actually have first hand experience in my opinion.

The same way people like to go dig up old quotes from RR and post them even though they have never actually experienced said quoted situation.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin] * 1
    #26636669 - 04/29/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I used to do cakes 5-6 years ago and fanning did absolutely no difference. SGFC will get a shit ton of airflow all around the cakes on its own.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26636742 - 04/29/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Cool bro. Don't fan your cakes then.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26636745 - 04/29/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I don't because I don't have cakes anymore. Even if your theory would hold, you wouldn't need to fan for 2 minutes to move that air.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26636758 - 04/29/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Just a quick flap of the lid to move air is all I am saying. If you never had to it might be because of the environment outside the SGFC more than inside. If you have Central Heat air air in your home you have way more air flow than in a closet in an apartment with out.

So I'm just saying because you didn't need to, doesn't mean that this applies to everyone growing cakes in a SGFC all over the world. The environment outside the chamber is as important as the one inside.

I recommend fanning if you are misting because it will help distribute the RH from around the cakes and induce evaporation.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26636794 - 04/29/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

SGFC shouldn't be placed in a closet anyways. Also, humid air is lighter than dry air and will float up, bringing new air in. That's like the whole dynamics of SGFC.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26636841 - 04/29/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Fanning once or twice a day will distribute the RH around the cakes and even out the dry air flowing through the tub due to passive FAE.

Alot of people see a TC make a comment 1 time and run with it because someone once said something and most people don't actually have first hand experience in my opinion.

The same way people like to go dig up old quotes from RR and post them even though they have never actually experienced said quoted situation.




That's good enough for me. I know this is a bit of a debate, but you have already given me a fuck-ton of advice that worked out incredibly well for my first n00b grow. So unless I had a really good reason, substantiated by many sources, I'm going with your advice on this.

By the way, on topic of this thread, my perlite is still nice and wet. I may irrigate the perlite again tonight, but probably not. Since in my other thread you just told me to let the cakes dry out a bit for a day or two, I'm going to assume that watering the perlite will impede this.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 3
    #26637201 - 04/29/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Taking the lid off to mist is more than enough fae. Besides look where the spores deposit. there's no stale air in there. The whole room is "stale" whatever that even means.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26637326 - 04/29/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Besides look where the spores deposit. there's no stale air in there. The whole room is "stale" whatever that even means.




I’m not sure what you mean by this, or if you were directly responding to me, and making a comment about my set up? If so, could you clarify a bit? Because I’m not sure what you’re trying to tell me. By the way, fun fact, I think you were one of the folks in my thread advocating for there being no need to fan cakes in an SGFC. But I could be remembering wrong.

I guess, I also need to respond to poisoned, because above, he said that these fruiting chambers should not be put into a closet. Which brings up the question of whether or not the closet the size that I put it in falls into that category. If you look at the pictures on the previous page, it’s a very big closet, more of a walk-in closet. While it may not have the space of an entire room obviously, it’s not like it shoved into a cramped closet with a bunch of clothes and overflowing storage items.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26637355 - 04/29/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LSA Woodrose said:
Which brings up the question of whether or not the closet the size that I put it in falls into that category. If you look at the pictures on the previous page, it’s a very big closet, more of a walk-in closet. While it may not have the space of an entire room obviously, it’s not like it shoved into a cramped closet with a bunch of clothes and overflowing storage items.




If the air in the closet, room, etc. can't circulate then the functionality of the SGFC is moot.

RR designed the SGFC so everyday people that have 9-5 jobs could cultivate cakes with almost zero maintenance (No fanning needed) :2cents:


Quote:

mushpunx said:
The only way to increase FAE is to add more holes, crack the lid, etc.
FAE is passive, happening all the time thru the holes.
Whatever fanning accomplishes happens , will happen on its own thru the holes.




:whathesaid: With regards to fanning

Not trying to start drama, but you gotta think about it....if the chamber can't breathe or refresh the air on it's own then are the shrooms going to get FAE? :shrug:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Tormato] * 2
    #26638851 - 04/30/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Like Bod said look at where the spores are deposited and it should give you a clue about air movement inside.
Warm air is lighter than cold air (colonies/substrates generate heat) and thus create air circulation.
And also water wapor molecules are lighter than air (colonies/substrates evaporate off humidity) thus creating firther air circulation.


The way I see it there is plenty of air constantly rising from the warm substrates. This imo explains why spores are deposited on the top of the caps, the warm/humid air rising from the subs lifts the spores above the fruits/caps. Assuming that fruits and their caps block some of the rising warmer/more damp air coming off the subs, then this creates slightly colder/dryer air right above the fruits and this microclimate traps the traveling spores and makes them hover down to land on top of the caps. Could also be other explanations for this but that's one theory I have at least for the consistency of where the spores usually deposit.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Mateja]
    #26638863 - 04/30/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

We need someone with vape to check the air currents in a SGFC.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned] * 2
    #26638898 - 04/30/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Shrooms make you gay so there should be plenty of people with vapes.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26638902 - 04/30/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If there was a way of somehow coloring the air inside and outside the setup without adding heavier particles like that which colors the air then it would probably give you some answers, but I've thought about this for a long time and Idk what kind of smoke or vapor you could add for it to behave exactly like natural air and vapor would behave. And on top of that I think every individual SGFC would create slightly different air circulations also depending on the environment the tub is in and the amount of substrates there are inside and ambient RH and Temps, just too many variables if you ask me.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26638930 - 04/30/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Shrooms make you gay so there should be plenty of people with vapes.



:liottalol:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: woofwoof]
    #26638943 - 04/30/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No son of mines gonna suck one of those pussy sticks!



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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26639247 - 04/30/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, I just wanted to re-post this question, because I'm not sure if bodhisatta was trying to tell me something about my setup that I need to be aware of, or if he was just musing out loud. :wink:


Quote:

LSA Woodrose said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Besides look where the spores deposit. there's no stale air in there. The whole room is "stale" whatever that even means.




I’m not sure what you mean by this, or if you were directly responding to me, and making a comment about my set up? If so, could you clarify a bit? Because I’m not sure what you’re trying to tell me. By the way, fun fact, I think you were one of the folks in my thread advocating for there being no need to fan cakes in an SGFC. But I could be remembering wrong.

I guess, I also need to respond to poisoned, because above, he said that these fruiting chambers should not be put into a closet. Which brings up the question of whether or not the closet the size that I put it in falls into that category. If you look at the pictures on the previous page, it’s a very big closet, more of a walk-in closet. While it may not have the space of an entire room obviously, it’s not like it shoved into a cramped closet with a bunch of clothes and overflowing storage items.




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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26639291 - 04/30/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think I got it!

What if u built seperate SGFC with different hole size patterns and measured the diameter of the spore print being made by the shroom cap (which is also measured).

LSA, u could do another floor plan diagram except specifically measuring spore print diameters relative to to size of the shroom cap and its height above the perlite Might get some interesting results :strokebeard:

The design with the largest spore print diameters on the perlite would indicate the SGFC design with the most efficient holes. :strokebeard:

:psychsplit:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26639455 - 04/30/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
LSA, u could do another floor plan diagram except specifically measuring spore print diameters relative to to size of the shroom cap and its height above the perlite Might get some interesting results :strokebeard:

The design with the largest spore print diameters on the perlite would indicate the SGFC design with the most efficient holes. :strokebeard:

:psychsplit:




Yeah, but I have to have more shrooms grow from my currently stalled in order for that to happen, right? :tongue:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26639466 - 04/30/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Time to prep more jars. Its time :yesnod:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26639670 - 04/30/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Time to prep more jars. Its time :yesnod:




No definitely not yet. Even if these 24 cakes are cooked, which I’m really hoping they’re not, then I don’t wanna try growing during the summer months when the temperatures get into the 90s, and I’m not home a lot. I’m not going to waste a ton of electricity and leave my AC on all day while I’m not home. Not when I can just wait until September, maybe inoculate 24 jars in mid August or something, that should dial in the more preferable temperature, right?

Also, I have five jars I inoculated the second week in April, they are starting to look really nice! I intend to try the Water HC Tek, pioneered in this forum by Mateah. Either way, even if I get nothing more from my current 24 cakes, which I don’t think is going to be the case but we’ll see, I’ll have plenty to last me way past the end of the summer anyway, just in what I’ve dried already.

By the way, I took your advice, I haven’t misted my cakes since yesterday at 12 PM, which is basically 32 hours ago. I’m hoping that you’re right, and they just need to dry a little bit more. So is 48 hours in total good before I start misting again? Or should I start doing it a little sooner, like tonight?


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26639708 - 04/30/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Misting should depend on the cake itself. If it looks moist on the surfscr then dont mist, if it looks very wet, let it dry out some (but not bone dry). If it looks dry, then mist and bottom water more often till its all good again.

Does it really get into the 90's in your house? Thats nutz.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26639752 - 04/30/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

He was advised in another thread to stop misting the cakes for a couple of days I think thats what he's referring to, tho I'm not sure why he was supposed to do that, cakes are inside a SGFC and the pics weren't clear enough to see what was going on with the microclimate (didn't look too wet to me) now idk if he felt personally like his cakes were too wet or something but from the conversation him and Sockadin were having it seemed to imply the cakes needed 'drying out a bit' or something to that effect.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Mateja] * 1
    #26639809 - 04/30/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

OMG what to respond to first.

Spore drop comment: spores don't drop and they don't drift up due to air currents. I feel like someone was inferring this. Spores pop when the caps discharge so they will lift and float. You can have an unmodded tub deposit spores on the top of a canopy because of that popping action.

I recommend to let the cake dry out to creat a pinning response. But cakes do take a week to recolonize and so I agree with LC. If they look dry give them a mist. If they look overly wet, let them be for a day or two.

I hope that helps and I haven't created more confusion. The real trick to this hobby is learning when to mist or fan or do nothing. It depends on your fruit chamber, air flow and RH outside the tub.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin] * 1
    #26639828 - 04/30/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Spores do pop. But not out of the gills and onto the caps. They pop to between the gills. Then drift down. Then air carries them. No air currents and you won't get spores on the tops of your caps or anywhere else but directly straight down.

Ever get a petri dish pin. It never gets spores on its cap. It leaves a perfect spore print.



The discharge mechanism is sorely to escape the gills.



https://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/spore-discharge-mushrooms.html


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26639829 - 04/30/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, cr
Quote:

Sockadin said:
I hope that helps and I haven't created more confusion.




No, I did that all by myself. For some reason I cross-referenced the conversation you and I were having in the other thread with what Logical Chaos was saying, and I responded to him, as if he were the one who advised me to lay off misting the cakes for 1-2 days. But that was you.

That said, I haven't misted for coming up on 34 hours. Last time I did was yesterday around 12:00PM EST. I took a second while writing this post, and checked in my closet, and the cakes still feel moist to the touch. None of them seem to be dry. I also checked all three of my cheap, dime-store hygrometers inside the 2 SGFCs, and they report (however inaccurate they may be) that my humidity is still 80-90 in the large chamber and about 70 in the smaller one.

A word about cakes "looking" dry, moist, or wet. I have to be honest, I simply can't tell by looking at them. Unless they are so wet that water is dripping off them, or I misted like two seconds ago, they look exactly the same to me. I look at them now, and they look exactly the same to me as they always do. Meaning, unless I touch them, I have no Earthly idea how wet or dry they are.

All that said, I will wait until tomorrow before I even think of misting again.

You think I should wait a little longer, maybe until the cakes actually "feel dry" to the touch? If evaporation is a pinning trigger and/or the 24 cakes are all just kind of recharging their mycelium batteries while they gear up for more flushes, then so much the better. But I haven't a clue what's going on in there right now, other than to check all my floor plans to see which cakes haven't flushed in how long, and some seem to my n00b eye to be stalled out. But I don't know whether they are stalled or just resting up for future flushes.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26639925 - 04/30/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Spores 100% can pop on a cap and the difference between a pin in a dish 1/4 of an inch off of the surface of the sub vs fully grown 3-5 inches off the substrate layer will make a difference.

Just a good old debate with the godfather of cultivation.

Spores will discharge up in a humid environment and land on the caps of the mushrooms all the time. I'm sure if I dug into this conversation I could find examples of this happening in sealed environments. But I really don't have the time or energy to try and prove it. So :shrug: you are a TC I am not. And that means your opinion should have more merit than mine I guess

Woodrose: if they feel heavy like they did when your birth them then yes they are hydrated. If they feel light like styrofoam you should dunk. Everything else is just evaporation of the surface to induce pinning. Misting doesn't replace moisture it gives a surface layer of moisture to allow evaporation to induce pinning. Which is a survival response to stress.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26639932 - 04/30/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The only way to get spores to go anywhere but straight down after they're flung from the basidium in an environment absent of air currents is with static electricity.

There's techniques to achieve axenic spore prints using static to attract spores and prevent them from having a gravity influenced trajectory.

Brownian motion won't make spores move against gravity. Find a in-vitro mushroom grown in place that keeps it from having convection from heating with spores anywhere but straight down from the gills and ill change my mind

Air currents in a fruiting chamber do though.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26639940 - 04/30/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Cool pic. A perfect shadow of the cap. Its my understanding that spores are "flung" out the shroom cap at "high velocities". However, since spores are so tiny, they can drift away from the cap when theres a draft from FAE.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26639945 - 04/30/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I hear what your saying. But I disagree that spores in a sealed environment will float straight down. I have seen it before in a time lapse where the force created by the pooping ejects the spores higher than then cap and they float down and print on the top of the cap.

So I think we are probably arguing the same point, but I think the difference is between the ejected spore release vs a short pop and float down.

I have seen, (and really don't have time or energy to find and repost) the mushroom ejection of spores flow up and above the level of a cap. I think it was NAT Geo, and they then floated on to the cap.


Either way I don't have the need to justify my position. I got to much shit going on, so there is that.

But yes air currents do have alot to do with spore deposits on the top of canopies.

Also if all the mushrooms are sporelating at the same it will create its own air current Ina sealed environment. So show me a dish with 20 mushrooms popping at the same time and your results would be completely different.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26639993 - 04/30/20 09:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Woodrose: if they feel heavy like they did when your birth them then yes they are hydrated. If they feel light like styrofoam you should dunk. Everything else is just evaporation of the surface to induce pinning. Misting doesn't replace moisture it gives a surface layer of moisture to allow evaporation to induce pinning. Which is a survival response to stress.




All right, so I was literally about to roll my eyes in frustration and bitch at you, on the grounds that, if I can't tell visually if a cake is "wet" or "damp" enough without touching it, how in the hell am I supposed to know what the F*** a cake is supposed to feel like, in terms of weight and density. But, sure enough, when I stopped for a second and started picking up cakes to feel how heavy or dense they felt, most felt kind of weighty and substantial, while 8 of the 24 felt light, as you described, like styrofoam. So I dunked all 8 cakes, and will leave them soaking in water, covered and weighted down, for 24 hours. As if they had just flushed.

I honestly don't know what else to do other than waiting and twiddling my thumbs or just bailing on these cakes as "spent," which obviously I have no intention of doing unless a few more weeks pass and its obvious they're cooked.

One more thing, and I believe its coming from the Perlite, because its only in the large tub, which has had cakes and Perlite in it for at least 2 weeks longer than the smaller tub. I noticed yesterday something that was a little disturbing. I am getting a slight mildewy smell when I open the lid, which goes away when I fan for just a few seconds. The cakes all smell "mushroomey" though, so I am forced to wonder if this is coming from the huge perlite layer under the cakes, which has been sort of collectively marinating in a lot of water from the initial wetting of it, about 5 weeks ago, and the misting and irrigation I have done since.

I am thinking that if the light smell doesn't go away by tomorrow, maybe its time to take the cakes out, along with the tin foil trays they sit atop, and set them aside. Then I could bring the SGFC into the bathroom and thoroughly wash the shit out of the Perlite in my bathtub with my shower head. Just really rinse and wash out that Perlite layer, while rigorously stirring it around with my open hands.

Thoughts?


Edited by LSA Woodrose (04/30/20 09:34 PM)


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26640074 - 04/30/20 10:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Good idea. A little cleaning if the tub on high heat never hurt anything.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin] * 1
    #26640175 - 04/30/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I always think of the weight of a baseball for the a good weight on a well hydrated cake.. but that was usually with a thick casing layer that was wet.. maybe a little less than a baseball

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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: fahtster]
    #26640262 - 05/01/20 12:51 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thats a good rough estimate. It does feel like a baseball too :strokebeard:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26640535 - 05/01/20 05:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, the ones that felt the densest, to me at least, felt more like golf balls than baseballs. I don't think that even the first cakes I birthed over a month ago, before a single shroom developed, felt like baseballs right out of the jars. The ones I have immersed in water, 8 cakes in total, all felt like styrofoam, as Soackadin described above, though.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Sockadin]
    #26640689 - 05/01/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
I hear what your saying. But I disagree that spores in a sealed environment will float straight down. I have seen it before in a time lapse where the force created by the pooping ejects the spores higher than then cap and they float down and print on the top of the cap.

So I think we are probably arguing the same point, but I think the difference is between the ejected spore release vs a short pop and float down.

I have seen, (and really don't have time or energy to find and repost) the mushroom ejection of spores flow up and above the level of a cap. I think it was NAT Geo, and they then floated on to the cap.


Either way I don't have the need to justify my position. I got to much shit going on, so there is that.

But yes air currents do have alot to do with spore deposits on the top of canopies.

Also if all the mushrooms are sporelating at the same it will create its own air current Ina sealed environment. So show me a dish with 20 mushrooms popping at the same time and your results would be completely different.



Yes and those pics are not in an airtight chamber they're in an environment with air flow. They're outdoor timelapses. Everyone ive ever seen.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26640745 - 05/01/20 08:23 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

On a side note, only tangentially related to this thread topic, I decided to order the set of videos RogerRabbit has on his site. I purchased and downloaded the entire series yesterday and am going to start diving in this weekend. Since I don't intend another full grow until late Summer/early Fall, when the weather is a little cooler, this gives me almost FOUR full months to learn, study, and digest all the stuff he has to teach, and decide what Tek I want to use next. I am leaning toward at least ONE more grow of mostly PF Tek, or at least using a fuckload of 1/2 pint BRF jars as my starting point, maybe with some full pint jars mixed in, as has been also suggested for a little variety. But I'm starting to wonder about the classic SGFC, at least in the ambient environment I am trying to grow in here.

On a side note, I just previewed a couple of these vids briefly and all I can say is WOW. I mean, seriously what a deal for $8.99 USD.



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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26641215 - 05/01/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Pretty sure RRs videos are free on YouTube  :shocked:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #26641277 - 05/01/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tormato said:
Pretty sure RRs videos are free on YouTube  :shocked:




That's not the point. I wanted to buy them anyway. The price for the series is a very small thank you to the man, given that the 4 PF Tek videos he posted on his site are free, and they helped me immeasurably for my first n00b grow. The thing is, as far as I'm concerned, these videos more than paid for themselves weeks before I actually paid for them.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26641280 - 05/01/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Roger Rabbit could use the cash anyway.

Brings back great memories. I remember when he used to post a ton on the boards. Man, that was fun.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26641284 - 05/01/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Roger Rabbit could use the cash anyway.





Is he all right? I'm not looking for juicy gossip or anything. But that sounds potentially cryptic.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26641294 - 05/01/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It was just a vague joke :awesome:. I don't know what hes up to these days :shrug:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26641390 - 05/01/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
It was just a vague joke :awesome:. I don't know what hes up to these days :shrug:




Ah ok lol.

Well, I watched the first 6 out of 16 of the videos. Just more or less trying to get what I can through visual and aural osmosis of some sort, since I'm not ready to start putting any of this stuff into practice just yet. In fact, I am about 90% sure that my next grow will be using BRF jars as my starting point. Still, they are incredibly interesting to watch, and so far I haven't seen anything that I wouldn't feel comfortable implementing, assuming I had the equipment, which I don't.

Hey, I have a question about the videos for anyone who has watched them. Did I miss something in the first 6 vids about inoculation of some sort? I am a little confused, since when I watched all the PF Tek videos, that are free, inoculation was a huge part of it, and he made a big deal out of it. But I have gone through the videos on Grain Preparation, Grain to Grain Transfer, Rye Grass Seed, Horse Manure, and Casing Layer Preparation. In addition to re-watching the first video, which was the 4 PF Tek vids on his site combined into one. At the end of some of these videos, with each Tek, he mentions that they are ready to start colonizing. I'm watching this, sitting there going, "Um...really? When, how, and using what medium did you  inoculate or somehow get spores, liquid, or MS into the substrate? Was it magic? The Force?" I have a bit of a shitty attention span sometimes, but I can't imagine how in the hell I missed every instance of how he introduced mycelium, in one of its forms, into the mix. In the vids, one minute it seems like he's preparing the substrates, getting it into whatever jar or other container, and the next he's talking about what strain they are.

Hahaha what did I miss?


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26641532 - 05/01/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I don't know what hes up to these days :shrug:



Hopefully out riding his motorcycle living his best life! :rockon:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Tormato]
    #26641632 - 05/01/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thatd be awesome. I hope he still grows occasionally.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26642587 - 05/02/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LSA Woodrose said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
It was just a vague joke :awesome:. I don't know what hes up to these days :shrug:




Ah ok lol.

Well, I watched the first 6 out of 16 of the videos. Just more or less trying to get what I can through visual and aural osmosis of some sort, since I'm not ready to start putting any of this stuff into practice just yet. In fact, I am about 90% sure that my next grow will be using BRF jars as my starting point. Still, they are incredibly interesting to watch, and so far I haven't seen anything that I wouldn't feel comfortable implementing, assuming I had the equipment, which I don't.

Hey, I have a question about the videos for anyone who has watched them. Did I miss something in the first 6 vids about inoculation of some sort? I am a little confused, since when I watched all the PF Tek videos, that are free, inoculation was a huge part of it, and he made a big deal out of it. But I have gone through the videos on Grain Preparation, Grain to Grain Transfer, Rye Grass Seed, Horse Manure, and Casing Layer Preparation. In addition to re-watching the first video, which was the 4 PF Tek vids on his site combined into one. At the end of some of these videos, with each Tek, he mentions that they are ready to start colonizing. I'm watching this, sitting there going, "Um...really? When, how, and using what medium did you  inoculate or somehow get spores, liquid, or MS into the substrate? Was it magic? The Force?" I have a bit of a shitty attention span sometimes, but I can't imagine how in the hell I missed every instance of how he introduced mycelium, in one of its forms, into the mix. In the vids, one minute it seems like he's preparing the substrates, getting it into whatever jar or other container, and the next he's talking about what strain they are.

Hahaha what did I miss?




That's the inoculation video:
Inoculating Grain Masters with Agar Wedge


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned] * 1
    #26642934 - 05/02/20 06:30 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Just came back to post this and say Bodhisatta is correct on spore deposits.

https://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/spore-discharge-mushrooms.html


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26643182 - 05/02/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
That's the inoculation video:
Inoculating Grain Masters with Agar Wedge




Ah okay, thank you, thank you!!

I actually had to stop watching the videos dead in my tracks yesterday. It was right at the end of video #6 of 16. Because I was feeling like I was watching a sequel without having seen the original movie, and had no idea what the hell was going on, because there was no recap or anything catching me up. So here's my first complaint about RogerRabbit's, and bear in mind, this is a complaint if, and only if, he was marketing to n00bs and not to more experienced growers who essentially already know you need something external to inoculate whatever substrate you're using. So my complaint is, you know what would have been nice? If he would have mentioned, even in passing, that he skipped one of the most important steps for the purposes of making the videos, BUT that inoculation, germination, and other good stuff would be mentioned LATER in a subsequent video.

You know how it looks to someone who knows NOTHING about growing? To someone who knows literally nothing I mean? The way those videos are structured, other than the PF Tek one I mean, it really looks as if all you have to to is prepare your substrate, stick it in big jars or trays, or whatever, and then a few weeks later, you have mushrooms! (Or at least are ready to fruit) From someone who is still a n00b myself, but having had some successful growing under my belt, I knew that mushrooms don't just grow spontaneously because you create a substrate, Which is why I asked the question. BUT I wouldn't have known that three months ago. You know what I would have thought watching these videos about grain, and horse manure, and whatever else? "Wow cool! I guess mushrooms are like mold. Just prepare the substrate and they will spontaneously appear. I guess if its good enough for mold, its good enough for shrooms, right?"

If you build it, they will fruit...


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26643230 - 05/02/20 08:57 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

thank you :smile:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: sedimalko]
    #26643394 - 05/02/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, they aren't really linear, but I suppose you should watch them all before attempting anything. My bigger complain is that all teks are shown for flow hood, which isn't what most noobs have at home.


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Edited by poisoned (05/02/20 10:26 AM)


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26643474 - 05/02/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Yeah, they aren't really linear, but I suppose you should watch them all before attempting anything. My bigger complain is that all teks are shown for flow hood, which isn't what most noobs have at home.




Yeah, that really annoyed the crap out of me as well, but I forgot about it when I wrote the post above. I’m not buying a flow hood, I’m not building a flow hood. People who cultivate as hobbyists, or do it professionally, for sales, to supplement their income, or whatever, absolutely. It’s a business expense. Hell even hobbyists who like drones will spend $1500.00 for a higher end drone set up. Gamers like myself build $2500 computers to play the best games. I have pre-orders for the next generation Xbox and PlayStation, and I guarantee you that it’ll cost me more to pick those consuls up then it would to buy two flights. I have pre-orders for the next generation Xbox and PlayStation, and I guarantee you that it’ll cost me more to pick those consoles up then it would to buy two flow hoods. I spend massive amounts of money on my home theater system. But For those things, I’m a hobbyist. Hell, a couple years back I spent about 15 grand for a PA system and LED stage lighting, for a band that plays mostly bars LOL. I spent A small fortune on a $4000, carbon fiber, road bicycle. So I get it, I totally do. And I’m not insulting anybody who does buy equipment like this for growing.

Lots of people, myself included have something called GAS, which stands for gear addiction syndrome. People who are growing mushrooms as a serious hobby, will spend whatever it takes to get their operation up and running. But I’m not a hobbyist, and I’m certainly not a shrooms dealer. I started this because I would like to keep myself in a constant supply of personal use mushrooms. And only the magical variety.

So for me, it’s about spending as little money as possible, as little time as possible, once I learn the ropes of course. Then again, I have no aspirations to sell anything, ever. I like to trip, but I’m not a drug dealer. Not that I’m disparaging drug dealers LOL, I’ve got some of my best supplies over the course of my life from upstanding, good drug dealers! People selling shrooms in my opinion are doing God’s work. That’s just not me.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26647045 - 05/03/20 09:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I just finished watching 11 of 16 of the videos. To add to what Poisoned said, I have to laugh. After finishing that 11th RR vid, I wanted to check something, and I think that all 5 of the remaining videos use flow hoods and/or huge pressure cookers.

LMAO so I basically paid for the video series to find out, in my mycology education quest, that I need to stick with PF Tek, only PF Tek, PF Tek all day, PF Tek all night. Not a complaint...well, okay, a little bit of a complaint. But also a great learning experience. I'm glad I bought the video series, for great information, and as a thank you, because if it weren't for RogerRabbit's free videos, I would not be here talking about mushroom cultivation at all. But I did have to stop watching at 11 videos. But I won't lie. I feel a little left-out-in-the-cold after the 11 I watched. Oh well. I'll finish the series tomorrow or the next day, but for the foreseeable future, a flow hood and a good enough and large enough pressure cooker are a non starter, particularly with Covid 19, shelter in place crap, and with my income taking a node-dive, and still no stimulus check yet.

Thanks for nothing, President Twitter McPussyGrabber. :laugh:

I probably will try other fruiting Tek's, like Mateah's Water HC and/or his regular HC. As well as any other possible ways to fruit from BRF jars, which appear to be the ONLY substrate medium in my future.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26647165 - 05/03/20 11:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well I know nothing about it but I think people have used those bags of instant rice as grain spawn, seemed to be huge on reddit.

I’m just assuming based on the little I’ve seen that the bags are sterile when you buy them and people just knock them up.

If that’s the case you could spawn it to bulk.

Really not much different from cakes I guess other than you could shake it up.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: A.k.a]
    #26647171 - 05/03/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Can you please do me a favor, if you don’t mind, and clarify what you just said a little bit? I understood about 30% of what you wrote in that post. LOL obviously not your fault, but my novice status in this hobby right now.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26647262 - 05/04/20 12:46 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You definitely won't go far without a pressure cooker, but a lot of people here work in a SAB. Flowhood is definitely not necessary, it's just a bit annoying teks are shown for a flowhood.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26647527 - 05/04/20 05:46 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
You definitely won't go far without a pressure cooker, but a lot of people here work in a SAB. Flowhood is definitely not necessary, it's just a bit annoying teks are shown for a flowhood.




I don't want to be coy with your answer, because you are making a very valid point. But I think there may be another way of looking at this. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, because you know a lot more than me, and I am not sure what "serviceable" equipment is for me, versus something more closely akin to a professional or hobbyist setup. I guess it might depend on what you mean by "go far?" I do take your point, though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say "go far" are you referring to a person who is either an aspiring mycologist or perhaps a hobbyist? As an example, I am a gamer, I usually make similar statements about a person's gaming PC rig or an outdated console. But I often wonder, how "far" does a person want to go? But does a person who play a bunch of cool video games really need a rig that will allow them to max out all the settings, play everything in 4K at ultra high? Or would a real budget-gaming PC or last gen console actually be fine for the guy who just likes to play some games? Maybe even most people who dabble in gaming the way I dabble in shrooms?

Meaning, does this concept of going far apply to someone like me, if my only goal is to keep myself in party favors, in perpetuity, and I have absolutely no aspirations to ever sell or even trade my shrooms, as well as the fact that very, very few of my friends would trip even if I gave them some.

tl;dr - What if I never evolve and get better at this, and just do PF Tek once or twice a year? Its easy, simple, somewhat foolproof in its own way, and even with what most people would say were probably suspect MS syringes from a site sponsor, and with yields much lower than a lot of people are getting around here, I could keep myself in shrooms forever, and quite easily, even if I never evolve.

That said, I have seen the Presto 23 Quart pressure cooker for as low as $79.99 on sale, which is a real budget model compared with say The All American model. I could maybe, at some point, see myself investing in that.

As for the SAB, are you saying that all that stuff RR was doing in the video, like cloning, taking samples, Agar work, etc., can be done safely and effectively in the SAB I made about two months ago?


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 2
    #26647566 - 05/04/20 06:31 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I would say "go far" as in you're gonna be stuck just doing brf cakes and/or have limited success with further grows if you don't have a PC.

Get the Presto 23qt if you're serious about expanding your hobby involvement. It's reliable and affordable. :thumbup:

If not....just stick to brf cakes. :shrug:


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #26647596 - 05/04/20 06:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah of course cloning and agar can be done in a SAB, that’s the only reason you need one.

Try looking on Craigslist and thrift stores for pressure cookers once this lockdowns done. I got a presto on sale online for like 60 but I’m sure you could get one for 3 bucks at a thrift store or garage sale.

Definitely the most important thing.

Even an instant pot can work for small scale stuff.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26647680 - 05/04/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'm a hobbyists, I'm in no way a professional. I think there's another difference that you didn't mention:
Do you want to be a hobbyist or do you want some mushrooms.
If #1, go for that Presto. It's a good tool I'd recommend to any hobbyist.
If you just want to have mushrooms for your consumption, but aren't interested in it as a hobby, PF tek is definitely the way to go.

Quote:

As for the SAB, are you saying that all that stuff RR was doing in the video, like cloning, taking samples, Agar work, etc., can be done safely and effectively in the SAB I made about two months ago?




Yes, definitely. But you'll need a PC for that.

You can also make it work with one of those smaller pressure cookers that are made for cooking, not canning. You can do everything that you can do with a bigger one, but you'll very quickly find out it's very limiting and you need to work around the small size all the time.

I'm in Europe and I paid more than twice as much for my Presto and looking back, it could be even more expensive and it would be still a very good investment. I'm not sure if it's worth spending money on AA as a hobbyist. Presto does the job well enough for us. I'm sure there's benefits to it for people who are in it professionally.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: A.k.a] * 1
    #26647779 - 05/04/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I bought a 23 at presto from the start and I love it. It was pricey but, "buy once, cry once".  Even with it I have had problems with contamination, likely due to my inexperience though. I can't imagine trying to accomplish the same results starting with dirtier equipment.

The reason people say you won't get far with of tek is the work to yield ratio is lower. I was going to do the pf tek, but luckily (I see that now) I ordered from a crappy, untrusted, vendor and it too over a month for them to get here. So I had a lot of time to read and decided to skip pf entirely. 

Also, canning food is easy and was pretty helpful during this pandemic. No soak jars of beans are awesome. My presto was 79 also right before corona. The "sale" is because they went up during the panic.

You can also check thrift stores. I just picked up a smaller pc that may hold about 3 jars for 5 bucks, 10 more has a new gasket headed my way. I'm actually using this one for food, but the opportunities are out there.

Good luck.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: poisoned]
    #26647878 - 05/04/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Do you want to be a hobbyist or do you want some mushrooms.
If #1, go for that Presto. It's a good tool I'd recommend to any hobbyist.
If you just want to have mushrooms for your consumption, but aren't interested in it as a hobby, PF tek is definitely the way to go.






You hit the nail right on the head here. Okay, going back to my gaming metaphor, I love having a high end gaming rig, although I DESPERATELY need an upgrade build. But 99% of the people I know who play videogames would be just fine with a budget PC that just "plays games" easily enough. So equating it to shroom cultivating, I am the guy who just wants to play some games just wants to grow some shrooms to have for personal use.

All that said, I will add this: that is an investment I would consider in the future if I do decide to be more serious about this. Say after my next grow, which will be PF Tek this Fall, just to stockpile some personal supply shrooms. Right now, though, even if I wanted to buy one, it's not cost effective. Because, as A.k.a. pointed out, I think with the Corona pandemic people are buying them all up, for panicked canning/bottling a lot of food for long term storage, and while I remember seeing the Presto 23 Quart model on Amazon for $79.99 USD before the crisis, most places that do have a few in stock, are charging a lot for them. No matter. If I buy one of these, it probably won't be until next year.


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26648006 - 05/04/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

There are some laser guns that measure temperature and humidity. Would one of those guns be an effective way of measuring surface humidity?

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GS29QXB


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Re: Weakness of SGFC? I May Have Found a Workaround [Re: goatchild]
    #26648117 - 05/04/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Your eyes are infinity better just look at the cake.


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