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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26626985 - 04/25/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Honestly it’s somewhat contemptible and why I don’t accept kindness or gifts from most folks because they expect things from you after the fact. It’s like a debt I didn’t ask for.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26627182 - 04/25/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Love is kind of like wanting good for another. It is appreciation and a feeling that the other person or animal means a lot to you, they make you happy. It is a feeling primarily.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26627193 - 04/25/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Love is kind of like wanting good for another. It is appreciation and a feeling that the other person or animal means a lot to you, they make you happy. It is a feeling primarily.




If that’s it then it would be a no for me, and if I might be bold then that would exclude every human being as well.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26627210 - 04/25/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Do you feel like nobody actually wants good for another person? I'm sorry if you feel that way :frown:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26627211 - 04/25/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Love is kind of like wanting good for another. It is appreciation and a feeling that the other person or animal means a lot to you, they make you happy. It is a feeling primarily.




If that’s it then it would be a no for me, and if I might be bold then that would exclude every human being as well.




You love me, don’t lie.  :atreyu:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26627371 - 04/25/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Do you feel like nobody actually wants good for another person? I'm sorry if you feel that way :frown:




Not really. It's still rooted in a selfish motivation, also people tend to want stuff in return or to be seen as a "good" person. Even with empathy it's only to soothe the pain they feel for someone suffering.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26627436 - 04/25/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I get kind of what you mean, but what is wrong with the roots being in a selfish motivation, if that is even the case? All experience is subjective anyways. Yes sometimes people expect something in return or have other selfish ideas behind their actions, but people who love also do unselfish things and really want good for others. Now you may say that they do so only to feel good themselves but I dont think that is true. There is something much more meaningful there and that is common to people. Like love is not only about good feelings but it comes with the pain of empathy and the sorrow of losing a loved one, if that were to happen. In the end i guess it is those things which you get or you dont and personal experience plays a big part. Maybe you never felt loved or fell in love with someone.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26627470 - 04/25/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
I get kind of what you mean, but what is wrong with the roots being in a selfish motivation, if that is even the case? All experience is subjective anyways. Yes sometimes people expect something in return or have other selfish ideas behind their actions, but people who love also do unselfish things and really want good for others. Now you may say that they do so only to feel good themselves but I dont think that is true. There is something much more meaningful there and that is common to people. Like love is not only about good feelings but it comes with the pain of empathy and the sorrow of losing a loved one, if that were to happen. In the end i guess it is those things which you get or you dont and personal experience plays a big part. Maybe you never felt loved or fell in love with someone.




I haven't really fallen in love with anyone to be honest. When it comes to feeling loved I doubt that too because the people usually want you to feel the same for them even when you don't or they expect you to return the kindness when they do stuff for you. Kind of like parents that throw the "I gave you life" line a lot, like that's a gift.

So in a sense love is a sort of debt, and I would rather not be a part of such a system.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26627487 - 04/25/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds like you didn't get a lot of love from your parents, directly or indirectly.  You have my sympathies in this "love" problem.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26627503 - 04/25/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Sounds like you didn't get a lot of love from your parents, directly or indirectly.  You have my sympathies in this "love" problem.




I did but it was suffocating. Always needing to know what I was doing, expecting to give hugs and kisses when I didn't feel it or want to (otherwise they would get upset and pout about it all), and not really supporting what I wanted to do and more like making be join things I had no interest in. It's a long list but for me love seems to be suffocating and confining.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblebound2grow
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26627527 - 04/25/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It sucks when you have to think about someone other than yourself?


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: bound2grow]
    #26627550 - 04/25/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bound2grow said:
It sucks when you have to think about someone other than yourself?




Not really, not doing so is pretty freeing.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblebound2grow
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26627568 - 04/25/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

But you just said the fact that your parents had needs that conflicted with yours was some sort of a burden. Besides being a generally disrespectful attitude towards the two people who took care of every one of your needs for a number of years, well, which is it? A burden or freeing? Or do you have a special disdain just for your parents?


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: bound2grow]
    #26627583 - 04/25/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bound2grow said:
But you just said the fact that your parents had needs that conflicted with yours was some sort of a burden. Besides being a generally disrespectful attitude towards the two people who took care of every one of your needs for a number of years, well, which is it? A burden or freeing? Or do you have a special disdain just for your parents?




How is it disrespectful? They never respected my wants or desires. Anything I wanted to do was shot down and never supported. I didn't want to do sports I wanted to play the piano, they said no.I wanted to take art classes and they said no, I wanted to be an entomologist but they said "no there is no money in it".

If it didn't match their view of reality then it was a no. When I was right about something in an argument they always deflected the topic to avoid losing face and whenever I messed up they beat me.

So no.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26627673 - 04/25/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Highly relevant:






Highly irrelevant as usual.

But to respond to Tantrika Solipsism doesn’t really appeal to me, as it has its own problems for me. Your talk of compassion and empathy is useless if the idea was true as everything being just my mental projection would nullify love and any concern for other things.

I have not met any human who seems good to earth or isn’t wrapped in some nonsense that helps perpetuate that feeling. Every human I have met lacks vision and just can’t see what’s alright in front of them and I’m tired of trying to explain myself to them. I don’t understand connections like love because I haven’t really felt it for humans. I never had friends just playmates ever since I was a kid. I would hand around to play and stuff like that but I wasn’t truly interested in there personal lives, unless I wanted something from them. Like if want led to “get with them” or something.



There aren't many. BUT they are out there you just gotta go out and sift through the bullshit. But it is worth it if you can manage to find someone and forge an unbreakable bond. That is love. An unbreakable bond.


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Those content with the least have the most.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26627891 - 04/25/20 06:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I guess I’m just jaded.

Being on the spectrum doesn’t help that much either to be honest. Socializing isn’t my strong point and it’s hard to keep my behaviors under control.

Part of me wonders if I became this way because I cared too much and see that people take advantage of that, or maybe to avoid getting hurt. I remember I used to be a bleeding heart before all this, and maybe this is just bitterness from being let down so many times. I mean realizing I was gay was a blow that’s slow to recover from.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26627899 - 04/25/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
But to respond to Tantrika Solipsism doesn’t really appeal to me, as it has its own problems for me. Your talk of compassion and empathy is useless if the idea was true as everything being just my mental projection would nullify love and any concern for other things.

I have not met any human who seems good to earth or isn’t wrapped in some nonsense that helps perpetuate that feeling. Every human I have met lacks vision and just can’t see what’s alright in front of them and I’m tired of trying to explain myself to them. I don’t understand connections like love because I haven’t really felt it for humans. I never had friends just playmates ever since I was a kid. I would hand around to play and stuff like that but I wasn’t truly interested in there personal lives, unless I wanted something from them. Like if want led to “get with them” or something.




yeah but we had a long discussion a short while ago about how you had become caught up in solipsism in the first place

so am just wondering whether now, independent of solipsism, you have a negative view of yourself and your impact on the earth
or if you are viewing yourself as being the example of someone who treats Earth well, while the rest of humans are fucked

just basically trying to establish whether you resent all humans or if you resent all humans but yourself


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26627905 - 04/25/20 06:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
But to respond to Tantrika Solipsism doesn’t really appeal to me, as it has its own problems for me. Your talk of compassion and empathy is useless if the idea was true as everything being just my mental projection would nullify love and any concern for other things.

I have not met any human who seems good to earth or isn’t wrapped in some nonsense that helps perpetuate that feeling. Every human I have met lacks vision and just can’t see what’s alright in front of them and I’m tired of trying to explain myself to them. I don’t understand connections like love because I haven’t really felt it for humans. I never had friends just playmates ever since I was a kid. I would hand around to play and stuff like that but I wasn’t truly interested in there personal lives, unless I wanted something from them. Like if want led to “get with them” or something.




yeah but we had a long discussion a short while ago about how you had become caught up in solipsism in the first place

so am just wondering whether now, independent of solipsism, you have a negative view of yourself and your impact on the earth
or if you are viewing yourself as being the example of someone who treats Earth well, while the rest of humans are fucked

just basically trying to establish whether you resent all humans or if you resent all humans but yourself




In general it’s everyone except me. Despite my best efforts I can’t seem to make people “get it”.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26627906 - 04/25/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Honestly it’s somewhat contemptible and why I don’t accept kindness or gifts from most folks because they expect things from you after the fact. It’s like a debt I didn’t ask for.




This reminds me a lot of the sentiment of "Psychic Vampires" that shows up in Satanism

the advice there is to loudly and publicly thank them for their gifts
as that disables them from guilting you into doing something later to pay back receiving a gift
and that becoming good at thanking people will start having the vampires fall out of your life

realistically, this is just a linguistic system used to appeal to people who feel cast out and angry
and to teach them to be good natured in the public sphere
and that doing so causes them to eventually understand that the perceived debt was never really there to begin with


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26627910 - 04/25/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
But to respond to Tantrika Solipsism doesn’t really appeal to me, as it has its own problems for me. Your talk of compassion and empathy is useless if the idea was true as everything being just my mental projection would nullify love and any concern for other things.

I have not met any human who seems good to earth or isn’t wrapped in some nonsense that helps perpetuate that feeling. Every human I have met lacks vision and just can’t see what’s alright in front of them and I’m tired of trying to explain myself to them. I don’t understand connections like love because I haven’t really felt it for humans. I never had friends just playmates ever since I was a kid. I would hand around to play and stuff like that but I wasn’t truly interested in there personal lives, unless I wanted something from them. Like if want led to “get with them” or something.




yeah but we had a long discussion a short while ago about how you had become caught up in solipsism in the first place

so am just wondering whether now, independent of solipsism, you have a negative view of yourself and your impact on the earth
or if you are viewing yourself as being the example of someone who treats Earth well, while the rest of humans are fucked

just basically trying to establish whether you resent all humans or if you resent all humans but yourself




In general it’s everyone except me. Despite my best efforts I can’t seem to make people “get it”.




Then I can definitely see how that would interfere with making connections with other people
it helps to be able to come at things as looking to share ideas between equals
but if you are sort of "above" others, then the flow of ideas feels it has to be one way
as tho there is almost an obligation to tell and not listen

am going to have to dwell on the precise implications of how this may or may not impact explaining romantic love and partnership
it was easier for me to pull my head out because my baseline was to consider myself trash that equally needed help in uplifting


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