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InvisibleBigDCB1
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LED Lights, quality strip or rope?
    #26620222 - 04/22/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Not sure where this should go - Mods feel free to move if necessary. I did a search here and most of the posts were 2017 or later and I know LED's have improved since then. I'm outfitting a container as a grow room and need help with finding LED lights that make sense for my situation. I want to use rope or strip LED's because almost half of the crop will be near (within a foot) of the walls, and I want to mount the lights on the walls for good coverage then have maybe more conventional led's in the center aisle for the rest. The strip lights I see are pretty  expensive for me and it seems 95% of the rope lights are junk even if they are not cheap. Does anyone have any experience with either? Looking for specific brands if possible. Plug and play would be nice but if not I can figure it out. I'm leaning toward a 5000k to 6500K natural/full spectrum type. Waterproof of course. I want to be able to pressure wash occasionally without doing a full tear-down.


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #26620818 - 04/22/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The problem with strip LEDs is that they are not really designed for growing anything and you have no idea what type of led they use so it's hard to determine the actual spectrum and output they are.

There has be huge advancements in LEDs for growing plants, especially with respect to full spectrum (6500k), 4000k, 3000k etc white lights. The current bleeding edge LEDs are the ones offered by Samsung, lm301h. These are specifically designed for plant growth and the output is measured in umol/s as opposed to lumens. The previous generation of these being the lm301b LEDs that were very good for plant growth apparently (I've never used them first hand). As for the light temperature, in respect to plants it's actually better to get 4000k-4500k for vegatative growth and the 3000k-3500k for flowering. The reason for this, as far as I understand it is that, the full spectrum 6500k lights have more green in them so they look brighter to the human eye, but actually contain slightly less blue and less red in them as a result. For plants that green light spectrum is just wasted energy, as they can't photosynthesis with green light. I am not sure how this relates to mushrooms though and how they react to the various light spectrums.

The other thing to be aware of is, if using only LEDs to grow, they contain little to no UV light as opposed to fluorescent or some HIDs. So if you're interested in trying to increase vitamin D production in the mushrooms you would have to either supplement with adding UV LEDs to the array or using other light sources.

Having said that, there is also strip-type lighting desinged for plant growth offered by Samsung as well as other popular brands like osram and xlamp. For water proofing you need to look for an iprating of 64 or higher (ip64, ip68 etc). You can do a search on an electronics supply stores like mouser, digikey or jamco etc to get a better idea of what is avaliable. There is also the quatum boards being sold for plant growth and the replicas of these from alibaba that use the LEDs I mentioned previously. But I believe they are not very waterproof because they are essentially just chips on board.

Another option is COBs (chips on boards, which are round) which you could potentially fabricate into strips.

I would warn against buying the cheap strip lighting that you see in home improvement shops because of what I mentioned earlier.


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InvisibleBigDCB1
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26621000 - 04/22/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for that. I dove into the THC growers recommendations on other forums and those boards and light arrays you mention seem to be very tightly directed for small grow tents and chambers. Also extremely expensive from what I found. My first inclination was to go with the T5 6500k lights I see espoused by people like Andrew at Mossy Creek on YouTube. It certainly works for him. I'm worried about the water resistance or lack of in that system though. Doesn't mean it's not there, I just haven't seen it yet. Yea, lumens, I understand are for our eyes - they don't help mushrooms. I guess the other main reason I'm looking at LED's is the energy savings, it's pretty dramatic. Also they do run cooler. Thanks for the stores and names you mentioned, I'll be doing a deep dive there. Any thoughts as to the preferred spectrum for mushrooms? I'm reading a lot of advocates for blue spectrum. I am inclined to go with a full/natural type spectrum to cover all bases.A lot of manufacturers represent full/natural spectrum but offer little proof via spectrographs or whatever you use to show spectrum wavelengths. I'm starting to feel a hemmorrage of $$ is inevitable. Which I can't do.
Looking at these two which were mentioned in an earlier thread. Very interesting but not enough data to be sure:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQMPS5X/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1HL2V6BJ5PJ50&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G7PWZBH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AGZVGSP7KCGJX&psc=1


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #26621093 - 04/22/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I mentioned those leds as a baseline for the cutting edge leds for plant growth on the market today. They are pretty expensive yes, but have very good penetrating power. I dont think they are necessarily designed for small grows as you can daisy chain several of the boards together for larger areas. Also I just wanted to sort of showcase that those cheap strip lighting leds like the second link you posted probably isn't the best option, even though they make work.

I would be cautious with the t5 fluorescent and the led conversion bulbs for them when it comes to high humidity and water. Some of the early led conversion bulbs have mains voltage coming directly out of them and could be dangerous. Bigclive on YouTube shows this, but I am not sure if that's still an issue with newer version. But I would suspect that the cheap ones probably have similar flaws.

To my knowkedge it's generally suggested for mushroom growth to use the 6500k or daylight bulbs but I am starting to doubt this after reading about leds spectrum (and by extension just general light spectrum charts) and the associated spectrum charts. I've read somewhere that mushroom do use blue light, so the added green light in a daylight bulb would be wasted. But like I said I don't know for sure and if green light has some effect on mushroom growth. They're not plants so it's entirely possible they could use that wavelength for something.

It's not that the lumens don't help mushrooms, you can use it as a rough guide line for intensity, but when drawing parallels to plant growth it's better to use PAR or umol/s. But again mushrooms aren't plants and don't photosynthesis so PAR is useless at least.

The thing is mushrooms don't really need that much light and you could probably get away with retro fitting some leds or florescents with a water proof shroud, you'll loose a bit of intensity but it might not be an issue. Look at literature on the species you wish to grow and check the recommended lumens for that species, that'll give you a good guide line. This link has the information for different species.

https://www.shroomery.org/9418/Shiitake

Ex. Shiitake needs 500-2000 lux which is nothing really.

I would out of principles avoid manufacturer claiming something without backing it up with at least a chart or graph. But I'm nitpicky. Amazon is pretty shitty for actually listing this type of information so maybe directly contacting the manufacturer might be a good idea.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26621469 - 04/23/20 04:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



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Offlineseagu

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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26621488 - 04/23/20 04:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I have had great success with LEDs. superbrightleds.com
Mushrooms like 6500k. They are not like plants with the limited spectrums. They need the full spectrum natural light. Even RogerRabbit talked about this somewhere concerning LEDs.

And yes lumens is how bright it is. IE how much of the 6500k is reaching the mushroom caps. I've seen first hand. The brighter the better for coloring.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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InvisibleBigDCB1
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: seagu]
    #26623176 - 04/23/20 06:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for all the replies. There's a lot to learn. I'm inclined to go with a wide spectrum light of one sort or another because I figure I'll cover my bases that way. I'm interested in the correlation between deeper color in mushrooms and the light intensity or wavelength, and also if it affects taste.


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #26623433 - 04/23/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

For some further reading on this subject here are some studies on the subject. It seems that blue light tends to have the most effect on fruit body development and red light the least.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3627973/#!po=2.27273
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jlve/35/1/35_1_90/_article
http://koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO201405458146178.page
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1749461317300568?via%3Dihub


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InvisibleBigDCB1
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26623521 - 04/23/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Excellent. Thanks for the links, I'll check it out.
I ran across this article the other day. It made me second guess what I see as the Myco conventional wisdom re lighting intensity and color. Interesting but biased probably since they are selling their "wide spectrum" lights.

https://thegreensunshineco.com/hps-vs-led-grow/

and this re color spectrum:  https://thegreensunshineco.com/think-beyond-white-led-and-bulb-grow-lights-kelvin-and-color-temperature/

Not plugging them btw. I called the other day and set up a time to talk with a rep and they never called at the set time (or any other)


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #26623927 - 04/24/20 04:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15608203

and definitely newer and better and brighter LED lights that we now have works great like RR and then I mentioned above.. The brighter the better. Also highest CRI matters for being as close to full spectrum as possible. https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/flexible-led-strip-lights/5m-white-led-strip-light-highlight-series-tape-light-1224v-ip67-waterproof/5602/#tab/specifications ; scroll down to see comparison chart
I personally use stw-a65k90-63f-10b5m-12v with great success. There is 24v with higher lumens. Which I think when I ordered mine there was only one of the 24v options. Now there are 2 24v options. They come encased in rubber for keeping water away from your electricity.


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InvisibleBigDCB1
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: seagu]
    #26624214 - 04/24/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Great thread link thank you. The link to the Superbright site is, I think, just what I'm looking for. Price is reasonable too. Any opinion on coverage for the space Im building? Or is there some sort of formula to figure out overall light intensity and coverage? I'm probably overthinking it. I want to mount strips on the walls. I'll have mobile racks (modified U boats with shelves) that I'll have blocks on both sides so I need light coming from walls and coming down the center. Would the blocks, being about 1 foot away from the lights give me problems (burn)? Maybe a drop in lumens because of the proximity?
I will have to do some sort of overhead directional system for going down the center aisle (reefer container 8ft wide).


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #26625597 - 04/24/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well, the ones that I am using, I have used several different ways. One of the ways was : and I had it running up under the shelf right that close to the mushrooms with no heat issues whatsoever.. never would have thoughts of a heat issue. The shelves are 15 inches.. not the mini-shelves. Those were 7.5 inches. But those didn't have LEDs. They needed to run across the shelves to get enough lighting. Going on both sides only without going across was not enough.  And I have another larger walk-in grow area that I just don't have a pic up here posted that runs the LED up the side of the wall across the ceiling and down the other wall with walls of shelves on either side. And the mushrooms are much farther from the LEDs than they were on the shelves in the pic above. Which works great too. Which is closer to the config I bought it for which was to make an oval on the ceiling for the light, with walls of shelves on either side without it going up or down the walls like a regular light ballast would. But you want the lights overhead the shrooms from my experience more so than beside them for coloring. If you only run them on the side the lighting will cast shadows and just won't color your oysters as well. And some of that is just not having enough of the LEDs running in that space to provide enough lumens per square foot type of thing. You can see how bright my shelves are with the LED strip running across the shelves. It wasn't as bright when only run on the sides.  Formula? read the mushrooms. Its what I had to do when I was adjusting everything. You can plan everything out according to the math but we are dealing with living growing things and Mushrooms just don't read math. :grin:


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


Edited by seagu (04/25/20 05:32 AM)


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: seagu]
    #26626293 - 04/25/20 05:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

oh, since I updated my explanation above with the picture post quite some for clarity and to hopefully better answer your questions... if anyone cares...  :eek:


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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InvisibleBigDCB1
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: seagu]
    #26627439 - 04/25/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks seagu, Didn't have any screen time till now.
So it seems like there's no such thing as too much light as long as it's not drying the mushrooms and is on a schedule - I'm thinking 12 hrs on / 12 hrs off or 8 on 8 off etc. Since the consensus seems to be brighter is better, on Superbright led's I'm looking at the 6500k, 24 watt with 36 led's per sq ft. The reason I want to mount half of the lights on the surrounding walls is because I might be able to get a used Japanese made tube bagging machine that makes 4-5 lb cylindrical logs that I would stack asian style on racks half facing the walls and half into the aisle. If the machine doesn't work out then I would run the strips like you did along the underside of each shelf and some on ceiling.


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Offlinepitriot
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #27074426 - 12/06/20 12:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

What did you end up going with and how are they?


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Offlineguamfw
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Re: LED Lights, quality strip or rope? [Re: BigDCB1]
    #28029316 - 11/02/22 11:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

LEDs are great for growing crops, as @BigDCB1 said. But there are nuances to this fixture that I have encountered as well. Crop growth is directly dependent on the heat and light of the LED bulb. In addition to the power of the light, you need to take care of the interval of on and off. It was very hard for me to do it manually and all the work did not bring the desired result. That's when I purchased automatic outlets that can be controlled through an app on my phone. It was quite handy when I was at work or out of town. You can find a smart outlet here https://www.amazon.com/smart-plug-wifi-plugs-alexa/dp/B09KTYH3MJ. But I still haven't solved the issue of lamp wattage selection. Tell me, is it necessary to take the most powerful or a dim light is enough? Thank you.


Edited by guamfw (11/02/22 11:37 AM)


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