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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Different Size BRF Substrate Jars * 1
    #26625385 - 04/24/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

OK, there’s something I’ve been pondering the last week, while I go through the flushes in my grow. Assuming a wide–mouth jar, of course, what are the advantages, and disadvantages, of using 1/2 pint jars versus full 1 pint jars? I see a lot of people birthing both sizes in different Teks. And it occurs to me, that maybe it’s better to use the bigger jar, because while it may take longer to colonize, I would assume you’d be using less inoculate material? Are there certain procedures that lend themselves to one versus the other? For example, in PF Tek, is the 1/2 pint jar configuration better, while maybe the 1 pint jar is better in another Tek?

Thanks!


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OfflineNorthernblades
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26625419 - 04/24/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I use a .75 jar.  :smile:  I know, I might be a little screwy.
I have reasons.
Generally, avoiding extremes is good.  If some use a .5 while others use a 1.
.75 makes perfect sense.

They are also quite narrow and tall.
IMHO I believe this helps the PC work better.
Larger surface area.  and less distance to the centre.

I could be completely wrong though.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: Northernblades]
    #26625433 - 04/24/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I just jelly jars for agar and for BRF cakes, you can PC a good amount of them, and the PC time is about 45-50min because of their size. I get less contams with those little jam jars than with 1/2pints.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26625442 - 04/24/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Mushrooms have a tendency to give up colonization and invitro pin during that colonization of full pint jars. I think it has to do with the colonization of the substrate. As it fills the jar and the top of the jar starts to shrink you get an evaporation trigger before the jar is fully colonized and it makes it stall out in some cases and doesn't fully colonize the substrate making birthing a tricky bitch.

Hope that makes sense woodrose. I don't know why I end up on all your threads haha.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: Sockadin]
    #26625611 - 04/24/20 08:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks everyone!

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Mushrooms have a tendency to give up colonization and invitro pin during that colonization of full pint jars. I think it has to do with the colonization of the substrate. As it fills the jar and the top of the jar starts to shrink you get an evaporation trigger before the jar is fully colonized and it makes it stall out in some cases and doesn't fully colonize the substrate making birthing a tricky bitch.




Makes sense.

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Hope that makes sense woodrose. I don't know why I end up on all your threads haha.




Well, I'm not complaining. You have been unbelievably helpful!


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26625622 - 04/24/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbsup:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26626202 - 04/25/20 03:51 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, 1 pints tend to stall out before finishing with colonization. However, u can pull it off if you made a substrate thats slightly more moist than usually and keep micropore tape on the holes to prevent cake dry out while it colonizes for 1.5 to 2 Months!

A T.C. weighs in: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11510887#11510887

I curently do a technique called "high-density jars" where u compact the material really tight in a half-pint jar. U get more material in each jar but it takes longer to colonize and the jar has a risk of stalling out. Moisture level is key, gotta make its not too wet or dry. But it does work :thumbup:


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26626265 - 04/25/20 05:16 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Logical Chaos, would I be right in my assumption that even though I had a successful grow, since I'm very new, I should stick with the 1/2 pint jars as RR and other experts like yourself recommended to me at the beginning of my journey? Meaning, perhaps now isn't the time for me to be deviating?

I plan on another grow this coming September, after the hot NY City summer. I am anxious to see if I get better results than I am getting now with a tad more experience under my belt.

The reason I asked this thread question was...well, greed. lol I thought maybe I could inoculate with the same tiny amounts I did with this grow, but get twice the yield. But based on what I am reading now, in and out of this thread, I'm thinking maybe I should stay in my lane for the time being.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26626280 - 04/25/20 05:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My advice is if youre going to try something experimental/new, dont go all in. As in dont just start making large amounts of 1 pint jars. I would go like 50/50. That way, if u fail with the 1 pint, u have the half pints as back up. Just some general advice on that.

But you do have your mixing technique down, feel free to try it. I would bet (figuritively) you would be sucessful.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26626382 - 04/25/20 06:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I think you definitely have a knack for this hobby. Can't wait to see when you jump Im to agar and grains. You have an uncanny ability to follow directions to a T. (Been here a while and not  following directions is 90% of the reason people fail)

Go read all of Bodhisatta threads and give us more mushroom porn!

Time to go bulk!


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: Sockadin]
    #26630705 - 04/26/20 08:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Sorrt I didn't respond to these posts until now, guys! lol I tripped yesterday in a very odd way lol. And I decided to chill for a while.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
My advice is if youre going to try something experimental/new, dont go all in. As in dont just start making large amounts of 1 pint jars. I would go like 50/50. That way, if u fail with the 1 pint, u have the half pints as back up. Just some general advice on that.

But you do have your mixing technique down, feel free to try it. I would bet (figuritively) you would be sucessful.




Thank you! This is actually a great idea. What I could do when I start my next major grow from scratch this September as planned, is do 24 1/2 pint jars the way I did in the beginning of this current grow, and inoculate 12 full pint jars.

So do I need to pump in double the MS spores from syringes for double the cake volume? Or would I just be doing the same drop or two I would with the 1/2 pint jars?

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Yeah I think you definitely have a knack for this hobby. Can't wait to see when you jump Im to agar and grains. You have an uncanny ability to follow directions to a T. (Been here a while and not  following directions is 90% of the reason people fail)

Go read all of Bodhisatta threads and give us more mushroom porn!

Time to go bulk!




Not quite ready for this yet. But I did use the leftover MS spores I had from my current grow a couple of weeks back and inoculated 5 more BRF jars. They are colonizing now, and I intend to try Mateah's Water HC chamber with those 5 jars in a few weeks when they consolidate. I even purchased another 30 quart Sterilite container, and have my cookie rack all ready.

Thank you for the kind words.

I actually think I have what may be the best idea I could have right now. I will purchase RogerRabbit's full MP4 download series. The truth is that I was going to do that anyway, but not because I needed it. I intended to purchase it more as a Thank You, because if it weren't for his videos, there is a very good chance you and I wouldn't be having this conversation right now. But his videos (the 4 part free Let's Grow Mushrooms series) was like watching my favorite cooking show, and following along. I love to cook, so those videos made me realize I could actually do this in a way that all the text and threads were not. All the reading was sort of making my eyes glaze over.

Anyway, it occurred to me yesterday that almost all the shit you guys are recommending to me, like cloning, Agar, prints, and so forth, all seem to be covered in his video series. So why not buy that series and between now and September just study up by watching his videos?

The advantage I have now, that I didn't have two months ago when I first got the idea to grow my own, is that in the back of my head, I knew I didn't want to grow in the summer, as leaving air conditioning on all day constantly, even when not home, would have been expensive. So I felt under immense time pressure to start ASAP, which I did.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on RR's paid video series? Have you watched it? Is it still relevant today? Because my gut instincts tell me that I will get a ton of great info from those videos, and for a mere $8.99! Talk about the deal of the century, considering I intended to buy it anyway just to support his site financially out of gratitude for the videos I already watched.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26630970 - 04/26/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, i would double the spore solution amount. I would also recommend making your own syringes. You will get faster colonization as long as your prints/syringes are clean.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26631292 - 04/27/20 03:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Yeah, i would double the spore solution amount. I would also recommend making your own syringes. You will get faster colonization as long as your prints/syringes are clean.




I definitely intend to. I am leaning toward doing it after my Fall grow. However, I am not completely discounting the idea. I will order RogerRabbit's video series  this week and study them, and maybe if I get good samples from the 6 cakes I recently inoculated using Mateah's Water HC Tek, and I have learned enough by then to do it, maybe I will make MS syringes. Right now, I am nowhere near confident enough yet. But I am open to it.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26631293 - 04/27/20 03:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No doubt. Totally understand. Will time, it can be learned :awesome:

If you get pint jars, get the wide mouth type: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Pint-Size-Wide-Mouth-Canning-Jars-16-oz-Collection-Elite-Series-Blue/313060590083?epid=2255527728&hash=item48e3dd8203:g:6j4AAOSwhiJeTT3N

And maybe add a slightly thicker dry verm layer for protection. Other than that, you should be good to go!

The best part of Pint cakes is huge fruits! At least from the pictures Ive seen.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26631319 - 04/27/20 04:02 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Oh yeah! I totally get that wide–mouth mason jars are the only way to go. LOL that may have been the very first thing I did learn when I started considering doing this! I read a whole bunch of horror stories about people trying to get your cakes out of the narrower neck jars, and immediately realized that shit wasn’t for me. I’m sure that’s fine for people who make their own jelly and jam, but not for this!

The reason I asked about the amount to inoculate each hole, is because being a real cheapskate with the MS syringes I did order from the site sponsor, I was thinking that maybe I could get double the yield with the same amount of inoculant I used for the half pint jars. Just being a little bit greedy . LOL. Although, the irony of what I’m posting now, is that if I do what you tell me to do, and learn how to make my own MS syringes, I don’t think I would be so meticulous about conserving what I have in my syringes by inoculating with only a drop or two with each hole like I did with this grow.

So, yeah, there’s that.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26631325 - 04/27/20 04:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So yeah, it will take a long time if you only put 1cc in a pint jar, but it WILL work. Just the time involved. More spore solution means faster colonization times.

Which is why I suggest learning how make your own syringes. Its really easy to learn and you can make potent, high-performance spore syringes that way (as long as your prints are clean).

Basically cycle hot steaming water in a syringe 5-6 times, let it cool with water in the syringe for 8 hours or more then bring into a SAB with spores and a glass container like a clean half-pint jar, scrap spores into jar, take off needle cap, squirt out water from syringe into jar, mix water, then uptake the water back into the syringe, place syringe needle cap back on and seal away syringe in a plastic bag.

That's the basics of what I do.


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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26631439 - 04/27/20 05:52 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I always hate offering counter opinions especially contradicting LC. In my opinion less is more even with full pint jars. More solution equals more moisture. If your going to do that I would advise to make your BRF mix a little drier than the first round.

Also the more spores you put in a media the more variability of genetics and the higher chance to introduce contamination if you have a my thing in your syringes. Remember it only takes two spores to germinate and run amuck in you jars. I do not think it will increase colonization times all that much.

When you work with agar and isolate a very small section of Mycelium clamps and transfer it to a new plate it will organize more efficiently and colonize just as fast as having  a large piece of mycelium but you will end up with better even healthy growth.

I would still do the least amount of spore solution with larger jars is all I am saying.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: Sockadin]
    #26631443 - 04/27/20 05:54 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Would be curious to a side-by-side of both conditions, One Pint jar with wetter substrate and more spore solution and one pint jar with drier substrate and less spore solution. Would be a cool project for LSA. Whadda think?


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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26631444 - 04/27/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'm down. I would love to see it.

I'm out of vermiculite so I can't pull this truck off right now.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Different Size BRF Substrate Jars [Re: Sockadin]
    #26631449 - 04/27/20 05:57 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe I might too. Just gotta order some Pint jars....


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