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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Quote:
oculodextro said: blooming onions.
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Thanatos10
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I'm trying to solve a problem that is preventing me from living my life here. If it's not solipsism it's anti natalism, but solipsism seems like a bigger issue here.
Like in this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_solipsism
Quote:
The basic argument for solipsism is that, because the mind can not conclude the existence of anything external, therefore nothing external exists, only the appearance of it. In a dream, we experience ourselves as a body in a world, encountering other people and phenomena. But when we wake up, we realize that all of it was just our mental projection (even if the dream characters asserted they were real). This is a consistent experience we have day after day. The dream experience helps us understand that the waking world is no different than a dream- we wake up, aware of ourselves in a body, in a world, encountering other people and phenomena. The so called consistency of this 'waking' dream world is a result of the memory of the dreamer and the attachment that the dreamer has to this dream body/world. The idea of "awakening" in spirituality is precisely that- waking up from this dream world by breaking attachment to the dream body.
But then again that raises the issue of waking up. You only know something is a dream because you can compare it to something that it is NOT. Hence I can tell a dream is a dream because I wake up from it. However that says nothing about current reality, or how you got the materials for the dream in order to imagine such things. Even then I would have to KNOW this world to be a dream and the only way to do that would be to "wake" from it, but then you run into the same problem with the new world. It's like the matrix issue in that you know that world is fake from the outside, but on the inside you can't be sure. Either way they provide an argument for it all.
All I know is that it's harder and harder to stay sane with each passing day and video games can only distract me for such an amount of time. Kind of reminds me of The Nexus in Star Trek (which has a similar concept to solipsism) where the character convinces the guy to leave it by saying it doesn't matter because it's not real, nothing he does has an impact. That's what happens with solipsism. In the same way your dreams don't "matter" neither does the solipsist's reality.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Psion
Sage
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i mean, that's a weird way of looking at it. you're assuming that there IS an objective "reality". for all we know, those dreams ARE real... and so is this reality. in which case, the things you do in this reality matter... and so do the things you do in dreams. there's no "fake" worlds, just different worlds you travel to when you go to sleep, and when you wake up.
it's just a matter of perspective. is one world fake because you're no longer present on one and traveled to another? is one universe fake because you're no longer present in one and instead your consciousness exists in a separate one? is one more real than another because one is made of of physical atoms and another of aether and a third of of dreamstuff?
or is it all simply a matter of how you look at things, especially considering that, while you spend your time there... it's as real as anything you spend your time at here in this realm?
maybe you're just overthinking it and placing too much importance on this earth, the way ancient astronomers did with the whole earth is the center of the universe thing.
maybe, we really are just a tiny orb in the far flung corner of a nowhere galaxy in a nothingburger universe in a tiny corner of the multiverse full of amazing wonders and combinations of physics that make our own mundane laws look pretty damn boring.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
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Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: ... It’s a problem I haven’t found a solution to, despite thinking about it often I can’t seem to find a way to beat it. I mean I always got the line that life is worth living but then I would think “why”? Why stop me from dying if I want to die? What makes your opinion more valuable than mine? Why do I have to stay alive? ...
Am familiar with/lived through a lot to do with antinatalism from this angle even got into an argument with one of my professors that the reason Kukai started a tradition of mountain withdrawal was because he viewed the connection with the "ten thousand things" as being inherently destructive with withdrawal from the world being the best way to mitigate as much suffering as possible but without invoking the additional suffering that the act of suicide places onto others
she had a pretty thorough class dedicated to his entire tradition of Shingon Buddhism along with the competing sects at the time but it was interesting, because it again comes back around to promoting a sort of social engagement through withdrawal and that the individual finds peace through service
Milarepa's biography also discusses his dealing with issues like this when he would use large-scale magic and birds and small animals would die and he felt weighted down by the karmic reprecussions
Milarepa's biography proceeds to give an account of how the birds were not really dead because of the force of the Dharma or something to that effect, so it was not as helpful here but will try to dig around a bit in Kukai's teachings as it was the two of them that got me to move away from my real negative view of living
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Thanatos10 said: So it’s not entirely depression but a rather serious philosophical inquiry into the supposed value we place on life.
not meaning to argue that it is entirely depression nor that simply "choosing" your way out is something that works for depression more generally
but you are choosing to focus your time on life and worth denying philosophies rather than those that promote living and that seems to be doing a lot with regards to the cycles of negative thinking you seem to get into
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Barclay and the holosuites? I’ve seen every Startrek 
Dream experience can help somewhat, but if you don’t have a full lucid dream - where you know your actually laying in bed sleeping while simultaneously also hallucinating the whole dream in a way that 95% of your senses are bound to the dream, but at the same time you can wiggle a toe or say a word aloud without waking yourself up (just for kicks and giggles while lucid dreaming) while still having the dream play out - like controlling yourself in two places at once.
That for me, helped really ground me in a sense of reality that’s hard to to put into words because it was seemingly antecedent to my experience of the world and my own self. I spent a lot of it conjuring up ladies and having orgies or flying around worlds I made from nothing but my imagination, and talked to myself in conjured versions of dream characters that I made take the shape and approximate attitude and personality of people I wanted to meet. But knowing the whole time the truth of the nature of the experience.
Atleast, I don’t think I would have ended up the same if not for those occasions. Partial lucid dreams never gave the same degree of primal certainty or confidence like a total one did, but those were even more rare for me, but still I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it acts as the # 1 fixture in my life for discernment, even if I cannot convey it as it truly happened with language. The difference between real and unreal, waking and dreaming, etc.
Side note, I really do think the 10 Oxherding pictures, or Ten Bulls are the bees knees. And are somehow relevant, but maybe not your flavor.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
#26669631 - 05/13/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
That for me, helped really ground me in a sense of reality that’s hard to to put into words because it was seemingly antecedent to my experience of the world and my own self. I spent a lot of it conjuring up ladies and having orgies or flying around worlds I made from nothing but my imagination, and talked to myself in conjured versions of dream characters that I made take the shape and approximate attitude and personality of people I wanted to meet. But knowing the whole time the truth of the nature of the experience.
Such things would be meaningless if this were a dream. I used to want lucid dreams but then to know that the people in them aren't real and only do what I say renders it all worthless. No matter what I do in a dream it doesn't matter because it doesn't persist on waking.
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Psion said: i mean, that's a weird way of looking at it. you're assuming that there IS an objective "reality". for all we know, those dreams ARE real... and so is this reality. in which case, the things you do in this reality matter... and so do the things you do in dreams. there's no "fake" worlds, just different worlds you travel to when you go to sleep, and when you wake up.
it's just a matter of perspective. is one world fake because you're no longer present on one and traveled to another? is one universe fake because you're no longer present in one and instead your consciousness exists in a separate one? is one more real than another because one is made of of physical atoms and another of aether and a third of of dreamstuff?
or is it all simply a matter of how you look at things, especially considering that, while you spend your time there... it's as real as anything you spend your time at here in this realm?
maybe you're just overthinking it and placing too much importance on this earth, the way ancient astronomers did with the whole earth is the center of the universe thing.
maybe, we really are just a tiny orb in the far flung corner of a nowhere galaxy in a nothingburger universe in a tiny corner of the multiverse full of amazing wonders and combinations of physics that make our own mundane laws look pretty damn boring.
Once again you are assuming too much and thereby misunderstanding the terror of solipsism. We know those dreams are real and that what happens in them doesn't matter. That link I posted shows how this "could" be a dream. Why assume other worlds? You imagine too much.
But still...it's harder to maintain my grip on reality, I fear I'm close the the same psychotic break I had when I first read this. Even typing on here is feeling like I am just pretending that other people exist. Anyone I am "Friends" with will feel hollow, if I get a partner their words and love will mean nothing to me......
My life feels like it's over just as it was starting to begin.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Then you could tell the difference in a way people who haven’t totally lucid dreamed can’t . There is value in it if your having trouble with it in the day to day.
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Psion
Sage
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honestly? seriously, read the Drizzt Do'urden books, starting with Homeland if you want to start with them in order. granted, it's one of the newest ones that deals with pretty much the same exact situation you're dealing with, and there's like... 30 books in the series. but still, they're excellent reads, full of adventure, magic, twists and turns, and well worth reading in their own right regardless! plus, the main character often reflects on his journeys and life in general, so you probably would resonate with him quite a bit - the insights he has might help you as well with some of your own questions.
and if not at least you got an entertaining diversion out of it, so it's not like it was a waste of time! certainly no more than anything else in life.
"Homeland" is the first book in the series if you wish to start from the beginning, though. the books were what got me into the Forgotten Realms series (all 260+ novels!) and they were all worthwhile reads. i spent over a year reading into the lore of that universe and man... i've never seen such a diverse world as Abeir-Toril described before. magic of all types! psionics! chi! science, both low and futuristic! alchemy! Cthulhuian horrors! good gods! evil gods! neutral gods! gods that die! gods that come back to life! heroes that die! heroes that come back to life! time travel! multiverses!
you literally never know what to expect with each series lol, other than they tend to be pretty awesome, and that the lore somehow winds up being pretty consistent despite its diversity.
anyways, you keep wanting some sort of absolute reality, some sort of "this is your purpose in life". i hate to break it to you...but there is none except what you make. there is no absolute reality, no absolute virtues, no man in the sky to throw lightning bolts when you stray from the path.
you are the one to forge the path. you create the destiny. the book is still unwritten. you are the author of your destiny. you can either choose to leave the pages blank - or you can choose to create something for the ages.
it's your choice. will you be a novelist, the author of your own fate? will you choose to simply wipe yourself out of existence, a mere stone among other stones that others will trod on? or will you be a tabula rasa, a blank slate that others decide to write what they will upon?
it's your choice - i suggest you choose wisely.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Quote:
My life feels like it's over just as it was starting to begin.
This line kinda blew my mind
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
#26670000 - 05/14/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psion said: honestly? seriously, read the Drizzt Do'urden books, starting with Homeland if you want to start with them in order. granted, it's one of the newest ones that deals with pretty much the same exact situation you're dealing with, and there's like... 30 books in the series. but still, they're excellent reads, full of adventure, magic, twists and turns, and well worth reading in their own right regardless! plus, the main character often reflects on his journeys and life in general, so you probably would resonate with him quite a bit - the insights he has might help you as well with some of your own questions.
and if not at least you got an entertaining diversion out of it, so it's not like it was a waste of time! certainly no more than anything else in life.
"Homeland" is the first book in the series if you wish to start from the beginning, though. the books were what got me into the Forgotten Realms series (all 260+ novels!) and they were all worthwhile reads. i spent over a year reading into the lore of that universe and man... i've never seen such a diverse world as Abeir-Toril described before. magic of all types! psionics! chi! science, both low and futuristic! alchemy! Cthulhuian horrors! good gods! evil gods! neutral gods! gods that die! gods that come back to life! heroes that die! heroes that come back to life! time travel! multiverses!
you literally never know what to expect with each series lol, other than they tend to be pretty awesome, and that the lore somehow winds up being pretty consistent despite its diversity.
anyways, you keep wanting some sort of absolute reality, some sort of "this is your purpose in life". i hate to break it to you...but there is none except what you make. there is no absolute reality, no absolute virtues, no man in the sky to throw lightning bolts when you stray from the path.
you are the one to forge the path. you create the destiny. the book is still unwritten. you are the author of your destiny. you can either choose to leave the pages blank - or you can choose to create something for the ages.
it's your choice. will you be a novelist, the author of your own fate? will you choose to simply wipe yourself out of existence, a mere stone among other stones that others will trod on? or will you be a tabula rasa, a blank slate that others decide to write what they will upon?
it's your choice - i suggest you choose wisely.
It’s like you don’t grasp what solipsism is and why it’s a problem, or even why your solution doesn’t work. If none of it is real then there isn’t a reason to write anything. Like I said before people’s emotions and words and love would just be hollow, my interactions would be meaningless because they would just follow my script, it wouldn’t be real.
Again you keep assuming too much, that there ever were other stones. You really just don’t get it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Like...it’s clear that people aren’t getting it and why it’s such a huge fear for me and I don’t know what else I can do to make you see
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Everybody here gets it apart from you.
"But I'm so special!!!"
He cries.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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InnerWisdom



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Seems like you desire validation for your invalid philosophy Thanatos10. Why is this thread still going on btw? Has not everything been said already that could be said regarding this subject?
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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We go off topic and have fun mostly.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Quote:
InnerWisdom said: Seems like you desire validation for your invalid philosophy Thanatos10. Why is this thread still going on btw? Has not everything been said already that could be said regarding this subject?
LOL, it's not just this thread IW. He's been on this exact same trip in various fora in the community for five years now.
The Thanatos philosophy 101 is:
1. Seek help 2. Refute help 3. ?????? 4. Profit
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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InnerWisdom



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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Someone lost his way
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Quote:
InnerWisdom said: Seems like you desire validation for your invalid philosophy Thanatos10. Why is this thread still going on btw? Has not everything been said already that could be said regarding this subject?
I’m trying to explain it but the “advice” I’m getting reads like people aren’t reading what I am writing or getting why the prospect of this being true is bad and terrifying for me. I honestly wonder if you’re reading the same things I am. It’s like trying to talk to someone about depression and their answer is to think happy thoughts.
I get unrelated remarks in regards to Hinduism or Buddhism, which the link I posted said are “similar” in some aspects but not close to solipsism as it is meant. Psi keeps missing the point with every post. Like...you really don’t get it. I’m losing my grip on reality and the will to live and I keep trying to correct everyone about solipsism and why it’s terrifying for me and why life would we worthless if it were true. Figments of you mind are not real in the same way that people in dreams are not real. Your experience with such being only carries any sort of meaning if you don’t know they are imaginary. But as soon as you know they are then meaning evaporates. It’s like when your watching a cartoon and all you see is lines and color instead of a character, or pixels if it’s a video game. Nothing you do has any impact on the world because it isn’t real and it all fades with your death. Every interaction with people will just be a stark reminder that you are “it”. I honestly don’t know how much of a clearer picture I can paint here.
Also losing my way implies that there ever was a way to begin with.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (05/14/20 10:18 AM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Na your just having trouble seeing past the words. Missing the point most of the time. Not much one can do one when talking with someone can’t follow, or thinks they see it but miss it entirely. Sorry bud.
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Edited by The Blind Ass (05/14/20 10:28 AM)
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
InnerWisdom said: Seems like you desire validation for your invalid philosophy Thanatos10. Why is this thread still going on btw? Has not everything been said already that could be said regarding this subject?
I’m trying to explain it but the “advice” I’m getting reads like people aren’t reading what I am writing or getting why the prospect of this being true is bad and terrifying for me. I honestly wonder if you’re reading the same things I am. It’s like trying to talk to someone about depression and their answer is to think happy thoughts. ...
Have been reading the same content as you, so long as it is what you provide and comprehend why the lens you view it through causes you distress but the lens of my viewing does not cause me distress, so my advice to you has been to change your viewing lens
this is why you have been repeatedly asked for specific quotations, to discuss how each of our interpretive lenses is taking in the specific information that causes you problems
Solipsism, to you, seems like it potentially affirms a grand loneliness because the prospect is that when your ego dies you will discover anything you invested emotional energy into was a false drain on that emotional energy
not trying to go too far, yet again, into the reality that the entity that generates all experience is not the same as the ego that experiences it without having generative capacity but this is a problem not of the philosophy of solipsism (which itself has other issues), but a problem with you and how you live with and seek to integrate the philosophies you encounoter as demonstrated by your also taking erroneous understandings of other traditions as being their limitations and not your own
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I get unrelated remarks in regards to Hinduism or Buddhism, which the link I posted said are “similar” in some aspects but not close to solipsism as it is meant...
You have been given advice on how other systems of belief would be more useful to you but you are stuck on insisting that you must adhere to the system of belief you are following, because if you adhere to the limitations of the system then it seems perfectly self-contained
You're being told to move your house to higher ground before the flood waters take you away and you're standing there demanding that people tell you how to stop the tides from rising
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