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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26641138 - 05/01/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

https://www.quora.com/What-if-solipsism-is-true

I’m pointing to the last few answers on here since I can’t copy and paste.

But again all those arguments could still be waved away as mental projections. Also the self/mind can be the only known thing. If there wasn’t such a thing then how would anything like this be possible. It’s simply an undeniable fact.

You say CBT is good because it’s being good to me, but that’s wrong. A figment of my imagination isn’t me, it’s doesn’t exist, so it doesn’t matter what happens to it. That’s why I say CBT is useless without other people. I can’t verify others and even the arguments listened are conclusive disproof of solipsism. She’s wrong in saying you should disbelieve it even if it’s true, because you can’t do that. It will haunt you no matter how you try to let go


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26641146 - 05/01/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:shrug:


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is love? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 3
    #26641295 - 05/01/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

This is so retarded I can't even.. :glorious:
Sorry for being so rude, but why does solipsism as a belief inhibit you from anything? If your mind is truly conjuring up everything including me writing this to you now, then isn't that amazing?
Why not play with yourself. It's kind of like the idea that all is one. Everything is just the universe. Now I don't believe that, but to an extent it is true, undeniable.
Of course everything is a part of the same whole. So you can't disprove that everything is not created by your mind or fed into it somehow.
Like what difference does it make? Everything is still there outside of me, so it seems, and separate from me whether my mind completely made it up or not. And in fact without me, there would be no experience of me and the outer world so yes it is all subjective experience as a being on this earth. I seriously do not understand what is the big deal here.
Also I have noticed you haven't answered a single one of my replies challenging your thoughts, so I must be right.

:leocheers:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26641296 - 05/01/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Love is when baby don’t hurt me.  :aweohyou:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: What is love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26641297 - 05/01/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
why does solipsism as a belief inhibit you from anything?



Isn't it obvious?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is love? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26641299 - 05/01/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Except in sadomasochistic sex :hereyougo:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What is love? [Re: InnerWisdom] * 1
    #26641301 - 05/01/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:justastonishing:

Its time for everyone to just give Zero Fucks :solidnod:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26642080 - 05/01/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
This is so retarded I can't even.. :glorious:
Sorry for being so rude, but why does solipsism as a belief inhibit you from anything? If your mind is truly conjuring up everything including me writing this to you now, then isn't that amazing?
Why not play with yourself. It's kind of like the idea that all is one. Everything is just the universe. Now I don't believe that, but to an extent it is true, undeniable.
Of course everything is a part of the same whole. So you can't disprove that everything is not created by your mind or fed into it somehow.
Like what difference does it make? Everything is still there outside of me, so it seems, and separate from me whether my mind completely made it up or not. And in fact without me, there would be no experience of me and the outer world so yes it is all subjective experience as a being on this earth. I seriously do not understand what is the big deal here.
Also I have noticed you haven't answered a single one of my replies challenging your thoughts, so I must be right.

:leocheers:




Because you haven't challenged anything.

There would be no point to existing if I were all alone, also this is nothing like the "all is one" mentality because there is no "all". Solipsism is very crippling because if I were the only one around then anything I do would be pointless, there would be no reason to go on living at the point. No one to notice, no one to care about or for, no friends, nothing. It would not at all be like playing without yourself. It would be a terrifying cosmic loneliness that can only be escaped by death.

That is why I find it so terrifying, because of what can happen if it's true.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlineoculodextro
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642100 - 05/01/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Science says love is a chemical cocktail of testosterone, estrogen, phenylethylamine, norepinephrine, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins.

Or in actual terms, some lust, attachment, attraction, and desire to not harm that object/person. Even if it means letting them go their own way.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: oculodextro]
    #26642104 - 05/01/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

oculodextro said:
Science says love is a chemical cocktail of testosterone, estrogen, phenylethylamine, norepinephrine, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins.

Or in actual terms, some lust, attachment, attraction, and desire to not harm that object/person. Even if it means letting them go their own way.




Can't say I've felt such things then to be honest.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlineoculodextro
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642134 - 05/01/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:



Can't say I've felt such things then to be honest.




How old are you if you don't mind me asking?


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642141 - 05/01/20 08:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
https://www.quora.com/What-if-solipsism-is-true

I’m pointing to the last few answers on here since I can’t copy and paste.
...




And, once again, none of those answers deal with how the entity is proven to be real
they take it as a fact, and use that as a basis for the system

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...
But again all those arguments could still be waved away as mental projections. Also the self/mind can be the only known thing. If there wasn’t such a thing then how would anything like this be possible. It’s simply an undeniable fact.
...




And, again, the arguments can only be waved away as mental projections if you accept the basis of solipsism as true

your problem is that you have put yourself inside of a closed system where you have chosen to believe solipsism is true despite being unable to prove it as true
and have chosen to take all subsequent actions on that basis

since solipsism can be shown to not be able to assert its truth by the parameters it provides, nothing about it is an objective fact

solipsism is subjectivism and ego masturbation

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...
You say CBT is good because it’s being good to me, but that’s wrong. A figment of my imagination isn’t me, it’s doesn’t exist, so it doesn’t matter what happens to it. ...




See, even when you confront issues within solipsism you have to break the system in order to disagree with them

if the outside world is a figment of your imagination, then it is you engaging with your own thoughts and nothing else.  How you react to the outside world is how you are reacting to your own mind.

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...
That’s why I say CBT is useless without other people...




Because, again, you are here to make excuses rather than changes

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...I can’t verify others and even the arguments listened are conclusive disproof of solipsism. She’s wrong in saying you should disbelieve it even if it’s true, because you can’t do that. It will haunt you no matter how you try to let go




No, it will not haunt me in the least; it is a broken and unprovable system that does not advance any prospects of utility for the lived reality


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: What is love? [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26642183 - 05/01/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Did we figure out love yet?
How about the effects of purity on experience?

I need answers people.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: oculodextro]
    #26642307 - 05/01/20 10:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

oculodextro said:
Quote:



Can't say I've felt such things then to be honest.




How old are you if you don't mind me asking?




28


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642397 - 05/01/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

No, it will not haunt me in the least; it is a broken and unprovable system that does not advance any prospects of utility for the lived reality





I know it can't be proven, but the problem is that it can't be disproven. I've already explained the consequences of me believing otherwise (that solipsism isn't true) because the risk is too great on my end to invest in reality without being sure that it's outside of me and that the people are as well. If they are figments then it's all pointless.

It's not really about advancing anything, it's about knowing that what you took for granted your whole life is at the basest level...uncertain. Who said philosophy was about being useful?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642426 - 05/01/20 11:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

No, it will not haunt me in the least; it is a broken and unprovable system that does not advance any prospects of utility for the lived reality





I know it can't be proven, but the problem is that it can't be disproven...




That is not actually a problem unless you decide that an inability to be disproven is sufficient for belief
while an inability to be proven is insufficient for disbelief

there is a choice that has to be made at the start of it to view it as true in order to get hung up in it -- it has to be accepted as proven or provable before it can be viewed as unable to be disproven

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...I've already explained the consequences of me believing otherwise (that solipsism isn't true) because the risk is too great on my end to invest in reality without being sure that it's outside of me and that the people are as well. If they are figments then it's all pointless.
...




And it has been explained to you how this does not even seem a consistent conclusion to reach if abiding by the rules of solipsism
this has been framed for you both as an ego-based mental projection issue
and as a further advanced philisophical issue of co-dependent arising

the further individual issue you seem to struggle with is an additional devaluing of your interior view of solipsism
because if you are treating yourself as the only real existing thing -- and the products of that existance as being pointless
then when you take the view of hard solipsism, you are on some level deciding this is important enough to create for your own experience to happen,
then deciding it is not important enough to fully commit to engagement with
you as an individual ego posting on the Shroomery seem to be perceiving things contrary to the designs of you as the entity that creates what you experience from nothingness

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It's not really about advancing anything, it's about knowing that what you took for granted your whole life is at the basest level...uncertain. Who said philosophy was about being useful?




It does not have to be useful, but it also affords proportional level of thought rather than being hung up on an unreality with no utility
:shrug:

the thing is, solipsism is not about knowing this uncertainty
that was one of my previously expressed issues with it and my preference for the Madhyamaka school of Buddhism
solipsism proposes that it be taken for granted that the individual can be known to exist with certainty
Madhyamaka asks whether the individual can be known to exist if the only way to know it exists is by it having uncertain experiences serve as the verification

solipsism says: I am the one thinking this, therefore I am real
Madhyamaka asks: can I be known to be real, if the only thing telling me so are unreal thoughts

but, despite the greater level of uncertainty
Madhyamaka uses that as a basis to provide a series of further thoughts regarding how the world can be engaged with for the practical affairs of the experiences we do not seem to stop having by asking the questions


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #26642496 - 05/02/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
because if I were the only one around then anything I do would be pointless, there would be no reason to ________



I'm amazed that you can't see this at this point. That you have not even had a fraction of a moment where you see this for what it truly is; fear and laziness (which, FYI, are the banes/hardest aspects for every human ever).

I suspect there's a very high chance you have had a flash of this realisation based on what you've said over the years, but you retreat back to this same tired excuse to keep hiding from the hardships of participation in the struggle we're all in together in favour of this lazy path through self-deception. I get it. Like every other human I am fearful and lazy too. What an eloquently simple excuse; 'well, it might not be real, so why make any effort whatsoever?'. And that's what you do - you come here for human interaction - yet make 0 effort. You take and take without giving. Not once have I ever seen you admit you might be wrong or say thanks, or say you appreciate another person. No, you know you're scared, and missing out, and hopeless and such, but you will not let go of your reason to not do what 97% of the rest of us do, because you have this 'wonderful' excuse, just like a junky does with their addiction.

You probably think no one here gets you but it's VERY clear many do - they've been where you are - and have moved on.

At the early stages of existential struglles like these that we all go through - consciously or not - I have the greatest compassion and empathy for those in it. However you are a special case. I still feel for you as a fellow lost soul, but you are so clearly remaining WILFULLY at this bump in the road. You're the cause of your suffering and misery, and although the road out of that dark hole is not really that hard, you cower from making the initial effort. which can seem insurmountable, to be fair. You're distracted from doing it by your thinking, like I was with sex and drink and drugs when I was there for 3.5 years. Better to stay out of reality than to realise one complelety fucked it up. I know it seems like climbing from the bottom of a dark well when you're exhausted to the point of collapse in that dark place, and the forever sleep seems so peaceful and attractive by comparison to the back and mind breaking effort, but just make a fucking start and commit to making your life - if even the tiniest fraction of a fraction - better. It only takes a couple of big heaves to start that effort snowballing; and it will get easier, as your life gets better and better. You have so much to gain and nothing to lose here. You cannot deny this for you have not tried it. I'd happily give you $1000 if you would.

I don't know why I bother writing this. I'm 99.9% certain it will fall on deaf ears, but I know the darkness and the hell you're in, and I could never leave a man down, even if it kills me. Even though you drive me crazy with your immature, trollish attention seeking - even though I had to block your PM's for you cannot control your impulses and be reasonable - I still care for you.

Don't make this go the way of PS&P. Five years of this shit is long enough. If you won't stop posting your nhilistic garbage here then meet me half way between FL & RI. I have plenty holiday to spare. One way or another you're gonna look back at this time of your life and realise how stupid you were being. You wouldnt be bemoaning it if you were set. You'd have quit by now. Deep down you know what's right, if you would just shut off your thoughts for thirty seconds. There's very few people in this world that will put in the effort people in this community have and will put in to you. I'm offering, and have given, a lot of my time, and so have others. I do not begrudge you this, but I just ask you to look deep inside yourself. Take a deep breath and focus around the pit of your stomach. Do you not feel you should do something, anything, just to say thanks for what people here have done? Or are you completely bereft of any gratitude?

Regardless, if you don't believe in us, it matters not. No one will try with you forever, and you can dwell in your own personal hell the rest of your life if you so choose. That's the reality for each of us. I didn't want to leave it when I was there, even though I knew it was hell (but I mostly distracted myself from this thought). We choose what we make of these fucked up surroundings and this existence that was forced upon us, and some just cannot cope. I've spent a lot of time whishing I didn't have to keep on doing it, but I cannot take my life becuase of the harm it would do my mother, and so I had to grow past that desire in order to carry on without hurting others with my nihilishm and seeing every day as one more misery. It's up to each of us - no one else - which is why some stay forever in purgatory and some achieve the peaks of the human condition.

It feels weird writing all that knowing that you will probably reject the 30 or so minutes I spent on it, but as I said, I can't see a fellow human suffering as much as you are and not at least try. Although feel free to be rude to me if you just want me to shut up.

Sending love.

JSB


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26642533 - 05/02/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I know I am stuck.

I know that to get out requires a choice that might not be grounded in something solid. That's what scares me. I've lived my life trying to go by some kind of path or guide of what to do and how to do it. Now that I have to make a choice on my end, it's scary. Scary because there is no "right" or "wrong" answer and no one can really give me one. I realize on some level that solipsism is nonsense,really. I got sucked into it because people said "you can't prove it wrong" which in my mind said that "i can't move on because it might be right" (well to be accurate in my mind it meant that it was true).

To my brain if something isn't "false" then I can't just toss it because it might be true, that's likely why it was so sticky. The fear was part of it, but it's mostly the "black and white" pattern my brain does (a common trait of those on the spectrum that I seldom recognize is at work). Philosophy, with much of it's gray areas, is my weakness. I get caught up in every new thing I read and take it to be the "ultimate truth of things" when it is just what someone said. Solipsism sent me into a tailspin when it said I couldn't verify that other people exist, which meant that I couldn't use what other people said as evidence, etc etc. You know the rest and that's how the disaster works.

It's a compulsion, and obsession. Not genuine interest, curiosity, or inquiry. It's a grip on my being compelling me to do this or suffer the vice of mental anguish, a ravenous wolf demanding to be fed by reading things I: A. know will harm me and B. send me into  tailspin. But saying no doesn't seem to work and the wolf grows stronger until I cave, and then the new thing I read becomes my new prison.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642534 - 05/02/20 01:03 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

In regards to love, apparently it's an utter dumpster fire: http://twenty-six.dividedquantum.info/


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: What is love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26642541 - 05/02/20 01:10 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Now that I have to make a choice on my end, it's scary.



Yes, because if you make any other choice other than the one you're currently making, it equals effort.

You're welcome to dispute that fact, but any human with a semblence of wisdom could see that it is the only thing that's scary about that choice.

Life is scary by default. It looks much scarier when one must admit their failings and work to change though.

Also, I have no idea what on earth you're doing linking trash about love when you don't yet know it.

I used to argue its nature too. It makes no sense until one experiences it, like so much.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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