|
genesis128
Ghost

Registered: 03/25/20
Posts: 45
|
clones and isolates losing potency 1
#26623557 - 04/23/20 10:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Has anyone ever had this problem before? Pretty bummed out. Not sure why this happened. As far as the fruits themselves, they still have fantastic yield and look identical to the original culture. Just the potency is not the same. It was bomb as fuck now it's bunk. Please explain , somebody....
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,269
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: genesis128] 1
#26623585 - 04/23/20 10:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Did it start out as a monoculture? Could be there were more than one and the weaker one took over. Anything else happen differently.. turned sporeless etc?
Faht
|
Whyterye



Registered: 02/23/18
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: fahtster]
#26623591 - 04/23/20 10:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Possibly tolerance?
Have you been eating a lot?
Anyone else trying them to confirm?
|
gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: genesis128] 1
#26623594 - 04/23/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
genesis128 said: Has anyone ever had this problem before? Pretty bummed out. Not sure why this happened. As far as the fruits themselves, they still have fantastic yield and look identical to the original culture. Just the potency is not the same. It was bomb as fuck now it's bunk. Please explain , somebody....
did you make a master of the clones? of so pull from the master and see if the potency is still there. If not I'd start. I like to slant before testing my clones of I get positive results I will keep it of they are disappointing then I dump. That way if anything ever happens to your culture you still have the original youngest version on slant you pull from anytime. Unless the weak culture came from a master then idk.
-------------------- Trade List ๐๐๐ 6 hole Mini Monos
|
genesis128
Ghost

Registered: 03/25/20
Posts: 45
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: gizmo1] 1
#26623715 - 04/24/20 12:35 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fahtster said: Did it start out as a monoculture? Could be there were more than one and the weaker one took over. Anything else happen differently.. turned sporeless etc?
Faht
Yeah now that you mention it, there was a slight discoloration in the caps. Very slightly. And also it clustered a lil less. Just a lil. And instead of thin it was a bit thicker. I thought it was because maybe the light, fae, temp, etc was not the same. I never have it in a controlled environment like that. But really, I could've sworn it was a monoculture. There has to be a better way of making sure there is if that's the case. Because going back to that mono and then trying to get a culture would result in a whole new culture.  Quote:
Whyterye said: Possibly tolerance?
Have you been eating a lot?
Anyone else trying them to confirm?
It's not a tolerance issue. I tested them myself and also let other people test them. Bunk compared to how they used to be, bomb.
Quote:
gizmo1 said:
Quote:
did you make a master of the clones? of so pull from the master and see if the potency is still there. If not I'd start. I like to slant before testing my clones of I get positive results I will keep it of they are disappointing then I dump. That way if anything ever happens to your culture you still have the original youngest version on slant you pull from anytime. Unless the weak culture came from a master then idk.
I can't remember if they came from masters or not. I think they did. Logically, that's what I'd do also, but it's been too far back to recall.
What I did do also was make a bunch of slave plates of the masters as well. every couple weeks so that my cultures wouldn't die out.
I think I may have experienced senescence?? But if that were the case I don't know why they fruited heavily and nearly identical in every way except for the potency???
Could my agar dishes have gotten too cold in the fridge to damage the myc somehow???
Thoughts??
|
c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: genesis128] 2
#26623732 - 04/24/20 12:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Everyone has brought up good points. I suspect at least one of them is correct
How many transfers did you make after the spores? I doubt you had an isolate unless it was a shitton or you were doing serial dilution
You say clones AND isolates: how many different cultures are you talking about? Have any of your cultures NOT lost potency?
How often are you and your friends tripping? I think tolerance is the most likely culprit
How do you not know if it came from a master? Like describe your process from spore to potent fruits to "bunk" fruits
I HIGHLY doubt you are experiencing senescence.. the answer to the above question could clear that up for sure tho.
I have had cultures stored 4 to 5 years do just fine, after getting colder than ideal and not being refreshed once. So I doubt that's the problem either
--------------------
  C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide "Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing." "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" โ Friedrich Nietzsche
|
genesis128
Ghost

Registered: 03/25/20
Posts: 45
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: c10h12n2o]
#26623778 - 04/24/20 01:53 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I dang near transferred away from spores for a good 2 months. Sorry this had to have been a year or 2 ago and I don't quite remember what happened. Nearly gave up when my clones and isolates got effed up. But here I am again. Trying to get to the bottom of this.
Yeah let's say this is strain/variety, whatever you wanna call it, X. I took a clone from a ms. cake. Grew it out on agar and put it to a tub. Clone still worked perfectly. Trip was similar to the original cake. I then took spores from this tub and put it to agar. isolated until what I thought to be a dang near perfect circle and then grew out a couple more tubs. It was twice as better than my original clone culture (trip value/potency wise).
So I went back to my so called isolate culture and made a couple of slave plates. From there made a couple more tubs. Some with the slave plates some with the master. All bunk.
Thought I was trippin and went back to the original clone (not isolate) plate, it was not quite bunk but still pretty bunk compared to how it used to be.
Me and my friends used to trip every other week for like 2-3 months on these and they were fine every time until the new batch came in. We all noticed a significant loss in terms of trip value.
What temp do you keep your cultures at? Do your plates ever collect any ice on them? Mine did. I'm pretty baffled myself trying to get to the bottom of this.
Thinking it either got too cold to the point where my culture got messedup or i made too many slave plates away from the master and the further it got the weaker it got in terms of trip value, potency. But yeah funny thing is that everything else, yield, appearance nearly looked the same.
Anyways, thanks for reading. I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly but yeah...
|
c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: genesis128]
#26623810 - 04/24/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Unless you did serial dilution you could be looking at dozens of transfers to get an isolate. Potentially over a hundred.
Sounds like fahtsters hypothesis is the best bet.
I've had them ice over before and not one problem with any except the panaelous slants
I dont think cold would affect a cultures ability to produce actives, it would either kill it or weaken it but not castrate its psychedelic balls. At least I dont see why it would, and it hasn't in my experience
I think a weaker (potency wise) strain grouping became dominant, assuming it's not an issue of tolerance. Even with super potent fruits, exotics etc, it loses the magic fairly quickly when you trip too much
--------------------
  C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide "Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing." "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" โ Friedrich Nietzsche
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: c10h12n2o]
#26624514 - 04/24/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I didn't read everything but I'd say it's almost definitely just certain genetics taking over. Or they weren't dried and stored properly.
This is precisely why we slant any promising genetics. In the event that you run into any type of problems, you just return to the slant.
Also, I agree with C10 on the isolate issue. Most folks that think they have isolates.... Don't.
|
eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
|
|
How old is this culture clone? Iโve heard from several good growers more recently similar issues. Stretching and expanding a culture a couple years and it degrades to the point that there is noticeable potency loss. If you do stretch cultures thin eventually they die out. Now sometimes cultures can last several or more years. But you should always be looking at new genetics while you expand a solid clone. You donโt want it to fall off and not be ready when it happens. Always start from spore again and it may take some work to get another solid similar culture. But try to plan ahead and have a backup plan.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 2 hours, 34 minutes
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: c10h12n2o]
#26624674 - 04/24/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c10h12n2o said: Unless you did serial dilution you could be looking at dozens of transfers to get an isolate. Potentially over a hundred.
Sounds like fahtsters hypothesis is the best bet.
I've had them ice over before and not one problem with any except the panaelous slants
I dont think cold would affect a cultures ability to produce actives, it would either kill it or weaken it but not castrate its psychedelic balls. At least I dont see why it would, and it hasn't in my experience
I think a weaker (potency wise) strain grouping became dominant, assuming it's not an issue of tolerance. Even with super potent fruits, exotics etc, it loses the magic fairly quickly when you trip too much
Yeah definitely had to have multiple genetics.
Click on the link in verums signature a few posts up about hunting masters/slaves.
Itโs been a while since I read it but Iโm pretty sure there were a handful of times it looked to be one set of genes and then after a couple transfers it would pop sectors all of a sudden.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (04/24/20 12:40 PM)
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: eatyualive]
#26624689 - 04/24/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That is really evident in my personal isolation series.
|
genesis128
Ghost

Registered: 03/25/20
Posts: 45
|
|
Yeah I mean I transferred away from the master plate a couple times. But I don't see how that's any different than grain 2 graining away from a master jar 2 or 3 times exponentially and still keeping the same characteristics fine????
If there really are multiple genetics in what looks to be like a mono culture I don't think i'd stress over isolation too much anymore. It's just not a reliable method. But even a cloned culture starts sectoring on agar. Usually it keeps it's value after. I dunno...
Have any of you guys just tried g2g forever? Like, not even storing clones for long term storage but just growing the same culture out over and over and over again and not stopping. Keeping it alive that way? Does it lose it's value after awhile or....?
|
c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: genesis128]
#26624986 - 04/24/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Well that's definitely not ideal. Like others explained, typically you would make a slant or master plate, make a slave plate (yall got me thinking about Nietzsche now, master vs slave morality lol), a2g or lc the slave plate and g2g from the result. You can use that for several projects but ideally you should be going back to the master plate/slant and expanding off that, rather than stuff you already expanded
Basically minimize unneeded expansion
But I really dont think you'd see issues like that in the time frame you mentioned. Especially if it is still performing vigorously
Weaker genetics became dominant, or tolerance, those would be my bets in this particular situation
--------------------
  C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide "Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing." "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" โ Friedrich Nietzsche
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: clones and isolates losing potency [Re: c10h12n2o]
#26626434 - 04/25/20 07:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Yep.
I have not tried g2ging forever. I personally believe in impossible things happening but am not willing to test that out with preciously prepared and sterilized grain. Maybe someday I'll be bored enough to run a year long test for you but for now I'll stick to agar > grain or LC > to more grain > to more grain and or tubs and or a little of both > to tubs.
|
|