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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26622974 - 04/23/20 05:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

You said “nothing is 100% certain”. I clearly showed why you’re wrong. But, ok, yawn away.:shrug:
All your “evidence” is based on sensory input. Not based in logic.

“Brain in a vat isn’t worth my time”
Well, if one of the most established philosophical concepts - developed by history’s first philosopher and undisputed to this day - is beneath you, I don’t know why you engaged me in this philosophical discussion.

My point was never that we’re in a simulation. Try reading instead of raging.
I clearly evoked that example to demonstrate a simple point - “I think, therefore I am” is the only thing that can be proven beyond all doubt.

“...I have no reason to treat life as fiction...”
Idk who told you to treat life one way or another, but it wasn’t me. I simply said there is such a thing as certainty, and proved it.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Tripsurfer] * 1
    #26622978 - 04/23/20 05:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
Quote:

Desecrates used the example of candle wax




Desecrates?

You might need to take that course again :lol:




Fuckin autocorrect:facepalm:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26622996 - 04/23/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
You said “nothing is 100% certain”. I clearly showed why you’re wrong. But, ok, yawn away.:shrug:
All your “evidence” is based on sensory input. Not based in logic.

“Brain in a vat isn’t worth my time”
Well, if one of the most established philosophical concepts - developed by history’s first philosopher and undisputed to this day - is beneath you, I don’t know why you engaged me in this philosophical discussion.

My point was never that we’re in a simulation. Try reading instead of raging.
I clearly evoked that example to demonstrate a simple point - “I think, therefore I am” is the only thing that can be proven beyond all doubt.

“...I have no reason to treat life as fiction...”
Idk who told you to treat life one way or another, but it wasn’t me. I simply said there is such a thing as certainty, and proved it.




Established doesn't mean it's taken seriously. All he said is that you don't know if you're a brain in a vat and the discussion ends there. You can't know you are or not so it truly is a pointless comment.

"I think therefor I am" also cannot be proven beyond all doubt and there are a number of responses as to why that is. I think Daniel Dennett made a remark as well as several Eastern philosophers.

You didn't prove anything you asserted it. I would stick to Descartes Mathematics rather than his philosophy as Dualism is essentially dead at the moment.

Also I did use logic to justify an external world, but like all philosophy it's not certain. But it's more explanatory than "it's just my mind", which I can't prove and has a lot of holes since it doesn't state how your mind came to be (among other things).

Like I said, the discussion as a whole is a dead horse and pointless. It's question with no answer and it doesn't have any impact on one's life unless the get twisted over it.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26623023 - 04/23/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well if it’s so tired and simple, why not disprove it?

Instead you write a wall of text with 0 meaning. Go ahead, tell me why I might not exist.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26623043 - 04/23/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Well if it’s so tired and simple, why not disprove it?

Instead you write a wall of text with 0 meaning. Go ahead, tell me why I might not exist.



Quote:

feldman114 said:
Well if it’s so tired and simple, why not disprove it?

Instead you write a wall of text with 0 meaning. Go ahead, tell me why I might not exist.




I say tired because it has no solution and it's a question that advances nothing. You could ignore it and it would have no impact on your life.

As for why you might not exist: you may be a simulation, an figment of someone else's imagination, evil demon deception, matrix, dream, etc. Take your pic. Your own existence is uncertain, it is merely assumed. It's like that Butterfly Poem. Are you a man dreaming he was a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he was a man?

Regardless there are better questions to attend to and there is a reason philosophers move on from Descartes Demon.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26623069 - 04/23/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Errr what? How does any of that prove I may not exist?

You just listed a bunch of stuff I can BE. Tell me how I might NOT be.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26623076 - 04/23/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Errr what? How does any of that prove I may not exist?

You just listed a bunch of stuff I can BE. Tell me how I might NOT be.




Actually I did list all the stuff that you can not be. You can just be a figment of someone else and not know it.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26623077 - 04/23/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26623082 - 04/23/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...




He actually isn't the basis of all philosophical knowledge since he essentially invented God to get out of his hole.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26623083 - 04/23/20 06:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Errr what? How does any of that prove I may not exist?

You just listed a bunch of stuff I can BE. Tell me how I might NOT be.




Actually I did list all the stuff that you can not be. You can just be a figment of someone else and not know it.




So I’m a figment? That means I exist, buddy. Dunno how else to explain it to you.
How is a figment of imagination different than my simulation example (that you shat on)?


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26623087 - 04/23/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...




He actually isn't the basis of all philosophical knowledge since he essentially invented God to get out of his hole.




Oh god, what? He was the first philosopher. He literally invented the occupation and the science. Every person who studied philosophy starts with Descartes. Of course all philosophy is based on his work.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26623115 - 04/23/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Errr what? How does any of that prove I may not exist?

You just listed a bunch of stuff I can BE. Tell me how I might NOT be.




Actually I did list all the stuff that you can not be. You can just be a figment of someone else and not know it.




So I’m a figment? That means I exist, buddy. Dunno how else to explain it to you.
How is a figment of imagination different than my simulation example (that you shat on)?



Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...




He actually isn't the basis of all philosophical knowledge since he essentially invented God to get out of his hole.




Oh god, what? He was the first philosopher. He literally invented the occupation and the science. Every person who studied philosophy starts with Descartes. Of course all philosophy is based on his work.




He was definitely not the first and some of his notions are flawed. Dualism has been proven wrong and his Demon is where he reached a dead end. Even his assumption that he exists and isn't a figment or a brain in the vat is faulty.

All he proves is cognitive activity but no thinker. There are thoughts but that's all you know.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26623161 - 04/23/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...




He actually isn't the basis of all philosophical knowledge since he essentially invented God to get out of his hole.





              :canthelpbutlaugh:

Probably the funniest thing that’s ever been said about Descartes, and yet so true.  He could not escape his own invention of mind only, and so posited a bigger mind in which his mind/ all phenomena occur...sneaky clever little philosopher man hmm 🧐

And one mustn’t forget it was much more of a philosophical thought experiment than a philosophical treaty or disposition to explain things as they really are, I’m certainly glad he moved on.

Atleast something good came of this argument, next time I have a lucid dream or I take a large dose of mushrooms, If I can get to that place where conscious and the unconscious , or the subject and object - coalesce - I will do my utmost to ask my undivided self (when both sides of the brain are hyperlinked and actively working in unison as opposed to in cyclical oscillation) the question regarding this topic, and see what my brain tells me from that space/place of nondual primal awareness in the “Dreamtime” or whatever you guys call it.  That place/state of lucidity and self knowing... where the dream and the dreamer, and body-mind- everything in the cosmos are temporarily not felt,or perceived to be distinctly separate. 

I imagine it will end up being quite entertaining and hilarious.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/23/20 06:59 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26623178 - 04/23/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...




He actually isn't the basis of all philosophical knowledge since he essentially invented God to get out of his hole.





              :canthelpbutlaugh:

Probably the funniest thing that’s ever been said about Descartes, and yet so true.  He could not escape his own invention of mind only, and so posited a bigger mind in which his mind/ all phenomena occur...sneaky clever little philosopher man hmm 🧐

Glad he moved on.




I think most moved on from that hole or don't get stuck in/take seriously.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26624976 - 04/24/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Oh god, what? He was the first philosopher. He literally invented the occupation and the science. Every person who studied philosophy starts with Descartes. Of course all philosophy is based on his work.




:mindblown:

What? Where did you study?

You cannot start with Descartes. You would miss about 2000 years of documented thought.
You start with the ancients. This is known


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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InvisibleHyperboreanDream
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26625346 - 04/24/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I just enjoyed the show not sure about the rest.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26625358 - 04/24/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
Quote:

Oh god, what? He was the first philosopher. He literally invented the occupation and the science. Every person who studied philosophy starts with Descartes. Of course all philosophy is based on his work.




:mindblown:

What? Where did you study?

You cannot start with Descartes. You would miss about 2000 years of documented thought.
You start with the ancients. This is known



Yeah, I guess Aristotle and Plato, Sun Tzu, Confuscious, Buddha are just fairy tales.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26626242 - 04/25/20 04:46 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

For sure. Thats why its so hard to study philosophy

Unless you are knowledgable about about basically everything that has gone before in the history of thought, you will miss so much when trying to interpret the work of more modern thinkers.

The density of meaning in the sentences of great philosophers is insane


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26626760 - 04/25/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Feldman, I really love the show.  Just watched a couple episodes last night.  I don't like Dr. Drew, but I watched that episode and the Damien Echols one. 

In episode 1, I liked how he talked about meditating.  In the Echols episode, I like how Damien said that enlightenment isn't the goal, but rather the first step in a process, which makes total sense.  I don't remember hearing anyone say that in that way.









--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: The Midnight Gospel Discussion [Re: feldman114]
    #26626835 - 04/25/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
The reason philosophers move on from Descartes is because Descartes is the basis of all Philosophical knowledge.

That’s like saying arithmetics are wrong because all mathematicians move on from it...




He actually isn't the basis of all philosophical knowledge since he essentially invented God to get out of his hole.




Oh god, what? He was the first philosopher. He literally invented the occupation and the science. Every person who studied philosophy starts with Descartes. Of course all philosophy is based on his work.




The science of philosophy?
People were contemplating their navels before they had a word for it.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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