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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26618971 - 04/21/20 11:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
I have been meaning to mention it for days...but I took it for granted.

Tantrika got it though.

The 2 Truths teaching.  It’s helps, a lot.  Think of it as a skillful means to understanding it all, that helps us stay sane. While giving us a means to reconcile and even coalesce the mundane relative truth and the Supramundane absolute truth into a single whole with 2 sides.

The brains capacity for compartmentalizations sure comes in handy sometimes  :dancingbacon:




Am mostly having problems at present comprehending solipsism

the existence of the experiencing entity is known to be real by the fact that it is experiencing
but the experiences are defined as not real; or not really occurring

this "makes sense" as part of broader philosophies that incorporate a sort of system of "two truths"
the reality that is experienced is real in so far as it is created by the entity to be experienced
it has no real reality, but it has a provisional reality that validates the experience of the entity

solipsism seems to imply the experiences do not take form even as a provisional reality
yet they are recognized as having sufficient form to provide verification of the existence of the entity experiencing them
but then they are afterward not considered to have any reality, even as an extension of the entity

so, somehow, it seems like the existence of the entity is only being verified by non-reality
which would imply that the entity is itself non-real, but the philisophical system seems to argue that implication is not valid
as the entity is the only real thing

:confused:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Tantrika]
    #26619010 - 04/21/20 11:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Except solipsism doesn’t even do that. As it said on there, it doesn’t posit an external world for there is no evidence of it




So it participates in an external world but does not even provisionally recognize the existence of the external world it engages with?

What a throw-away philosophy




It doubts the existence of anything external to you. Which begs the question of how your mind made anything without knowing about it. I mean how do you build a house if you have never seen it


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26619012 - 04/21/20 11:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

:iloveyou:


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26619021 - 04/21/20 11:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Except solipsism doesn’t even do that. As it said on there, it doesn’t posit an external world for there is no evidence of it




So it participates in an external world but does not even provisionally recognize the existence of the external world it engages with?

What a throw-away philosophy




It doubts the existence of anything external to you. Which begs the question of how your mind made anything without knowing about it. I mean how do you build a house if you have never seen it




but does it recognize it as an "internal" reality being experienced as external?
really not comprehending how the tradition explains lived experience

In Advaita Vedanta, nothing is actually external to the Brahman/Atman tho
it's experienced as externalities for the sake of creating experiences

to me the question isn't really of the making without knowing
throw chaotic forces at each other long enough and they stick as temporary magnitudes of order that seem comprehensible
even if all the connections comprising them are transient

building a house is really just a function of deciding there needs to be a surface overhead, or more properly a closed space
and then recognizing how to support those requirements relative to Earth's physics

the more interesting question to me would be why so much adheres to something such as Earth's physics
if it's all just made in the mind, why have any degrees of consistency at all?


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OfflinePsyche delics
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Enlil]
    #26619036 - 04/22/20 12:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm sorry for coming into this thread.  I thought it was about Theranos.  I've never heard of Thanatos.  Enjoy!



I never have either until I read this thread now I see him. He really might be a figment of our imagination


--------------------


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #26619097 - 04/22/20 01:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Now I must contemplate suicide, since it seems like the only escape from all of it. I don’t want to go on living doubting other people




Dont do it bro. The Spirit Realm will punish u for suicide. Its not worth it man!


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26619131 - 04/22/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Except solipsism doesn’t even do that. As it said on there, it doesn’t posit an external world for there is no evidence of it




So it participates in an external world but does not even provisionally recognize the existence of the external world it engages with?

What a throw-away philosophy




It doubts the existence of anything external to you. Which begs the question of how your mind made anything without knowing about it. I mean how do you build a house if you have never seen it




but does it recognize it as an "internal" reality being experienced as external?
really not comprehending how the tradition explains lived experience

In Advaita Vedanta, nothing is actually external to the Brahman/Atman tho
it's experienced as externalities for the sake of creating experiences

to me the question isn't really of the making without knowing
throw chaotic forces at each other long enough and they stick as temporary magnitudes of order that seem comprehensible
even if all the connections comprising them are transient

building a house is really just a function of deciding there needs to be a surface overhead, or more properly a closed space
and then recognizing how to support those requirements relative to Earth's physics

the more interesting question to me would be why so much adheres to something such as Earth's physics
if it's all just made in the mind, why have any degrees of consistency at all?





  We cannot break through into the intrinsic spaciousness of our mind stream unless we suspend our belief in conventional reality as real and true.  Moral truth, scientific truth, assumptions about the actual content of our sensory experience, all must be subsumed under the heading of 'lies', 'falsehood', 'unreality'.

  The entire belief system by which we relate professionally, socially and sexually, domestically and personally, must be undermined, deconstructed and rendered ineffectual. Every belief system is hypothetical, a superficial construction, capable of replacement by an alternative set of beliefs. It is all delusion. It is deceiving, duplicitous, spurious fiction. It is a lie. In that way, by rejecting fact as 'true', we begin to relieve ourselves of the density and heaviness, not to say bigotry, of our beliefs about the nature of reality.

  All a lie, even solipsism.  All subsuming lie, regardless of a character on your screen that is spelled Thanatos10 and the word appearing beside the name, regardless of what they say - those squiggles of text composed of a sequence of 1’s and 0’s- they are all lie.

  Labels are for the birds, reality is hyper-nameless and not a word can be said of it in its true nature.  Mere approximation, performed by an ignorant, highly fallible human animal of the mammalian type - subject to delusions, illusions, and a host of hindrances and distractions.  All attempts to speak of it are symbolic at best.
****

Without 2 truths doctrine , we would have to stop right there, at least in a philosophical debate or any debate or discussion in which we all have agreed to terms and their definitions before hand.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26619378 - 04/22/20 06:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

None of it is really a lie and I wouldn’t say two truths is a thing as it implies an absolute that doesn’t seem to exist. Our models aren’t exactly fiction, they are true in a relative sense as relative truth is all we have. Reality isn’t nameless as much of it has been figured out in regards to how it works, it’s just the quantum world that gives hiccups.

You can’t say solipsism is a lie and as for the nature of reality solipsism posits it as unknowable. Rejecting all that doesn’t tell you what reality is, it just leads to a certain experience.

Not to mention your first segment is the problem of solipsism, your whole post doesn’t really solve solipsism as much as ignores it. You say solipsism is a lie without evidence, same with everything else. Your words can’t be trusted either because they are based on experience.

Also based on your words it sounds like you want to keep me in suffering and in disconnect from those I love


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


Edited by Thanatos10 (04/22/20 06:52 AM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26619414 - 04/22/20 06:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...
  We cannot break through into the intrinsic spaciousness of our mind stream unless we suspend our belief in conventional reality as real and true.  Moral truth, scientific truth, assumptions about the actual content of our sensory experience, all must be subsumed under the heading of 'lies', 'falsehood', 'unreality'.

  The entire belief system by which we relate professionally, socially and sexually, domestically and personally, must be undermined, deconstructed and rendered ineffectual. Every belief system is hypothetical, a superficial construction, capable of replacement by an alternative set of beliefs. It is all delusion. It is deceiving, duplicitous, spurious fiction. It is a lie. In that way, by rejecting fact as 'true', we begin to relieve ourselves of the density and heaviness, not to say bigotry, of our beliefs about the nature of reality.

  All a lie, even solipsism.  All subsuming lie, regardless of a character on your screen that is spelled Thanatos10 and the word appearing beside the name, regardless of what they say - those squiggles of text composed of a sequence of 1’s and 0’s- they are all lie.

  Labels are for the birds, reality is hyper-nameless and not a word can be said of it in its true nature.  Mere approximation, performed by an ignorant, highly fallible human animal of the mammalian type - subject to delusions, illusions, and a host of hindrances and distractions.  All attempts to speak of it are symbolic at best.
****

Without 2 truths doctrine , we would have to stop right there, at least in a philosophical debate or any debate or discussion in which we all have agreed to terms and their definitions before hand.




The thing that seems to make solipsism the most untrue/impractical/boring as a philosophy for me
is that it takes a position of certainty on the unknowable

while solipsism makes certain the claim that nothing exists outside the entity
Madhyamaka asks the question whether things can be known to exist, or even the entity -- the position is that both are uncertain because they depend on each other
can't have experiences without an experiencer; no real experiencer without experiences

that is where the two-truths becomes of interest to me
it starts asking questions of the implications of reality; recognizing the ultimate emptiness of reality while examining what that emptiness means for the lived experience


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Tantrika]
    #26619419 - 04/22/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: PatrickKn]
    #26619505 - 04/22/20 08:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Maybe everyone is a figment of each others imaginations, and it creates a network of independently verifiable realities that can communicate between each other and strengthen eachothers existences by.



Maybe we’re all figments in the imagination of someone else.  Someone who has an imagination that is so complex that it can sort of turn loose what it imagines and in an exercise of meditation let what it imagines take on a life of it’s own.  And that someone sits back and for a period of time, lets those figments run free. :woooaaahhh:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26619548 - 04/22/20 08:41 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...
  We cannot break through into the intrinsic spaciousness of our mind stream unless we suspend our belief in conventional reality as real and true.  Moral truth, scientific truth, assumptions about the actual content of our sensory experience, all must be subsumed under the heading of 'lies', 'falsehood', 'unreality'.

  The entire belief system by which we relate professionally, socially and sexually, domestically and personally, must be undermined, deconstructed and rendered ineffectual. Every belief system is hypothetical, a superficial construction, capable of replacement by an alternative set of beliefs. It is all delusion. It is deceiving, duplicitous, spurious fiction. It is a lie. In that way, by rejecting fact as 'true', we begin to relieve ourselves of the density and heaviness, not to say bigotry, of our beliefs about the nature of reality.

  All a lie, even solipsism.  All subsuming lie, regardless of a character on your screen that is spelled Thanatos10 and the word appearing beside the name, regardless of what they say - those squiggles of text composed of a sequence of 1’s and 0’s- they are all lie.

  Labels are for the birds, reality is hyper-nameless and not a word can be said of it in its true nature.  Mere approximation, performed by an ignorant, highly fallible human animal of the mammalian type - subject to delusions, illusions, and a host of hindrances and distractions.  All attempts to speak of it are symbolic at best.
****

Without 2 truths doctrine , we would have to stop right there, at least in a philosophical debate or any debate or discussion in which we all have agreed to terms and their definitions before hand.




The thing that seems to make solipsism the most untrue/impractical/boring as a philosophy for me
is that it takes a position of certainty on the unknowable

while solipsism makes certain the claim that nothing exists outside the entity
Madhyamaka asks the question whether things can be known to exist, or even the entity -- the position is that both are uncertain because they depend on each other
can't have experiences without an experiencer; no real experiencer without experiences

that is where the two-truths becomes of interest to me
it starts asking questions of the implications of reality; recognizing the ultimate emptiness of reality while examining what that emptiness means for the lived experience




I’m slowly working past solipsism as I find it to be rather insufficient to explain things and I’m becoming aware of the glaring holes in it.

I guess in this case my fear overwrote my logical thinking because I was so terrified of it being true that I ended up believing it despite it numerous flaws.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26619558 - 04/22/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...
  We cannot break through into the intrinsic spaciousness of our mind stream unless we suspend our belief in conventional reality as real and true.  Moral truth, scientific truth, assumptions about the actual content of our sensory experience, all must be subsumed under the heading of 'lies', 'falsehood', 'unreality'.

  The entire belief system by which we relate professionally, socially and sexually, domestically and personally, must be undermined, deconstructed and rendered ineffectual. Every belief system is hypothetical, a superficial construction, capable of replacement by an alternative set of beliefs. It is all delusion. It is deceiving, duplicitous, spurious fiction. It is a lie. In that way, by rejecting fact as 'true', we begin to relieve ourselves of the density and heaviness, not to say bigotry, of our beliefs about the nature of reality.

  All a lie, even solipsism.  All subsuming lie, regardless of a character on your screen that is spelled Thanatos10 and the word appearing beside the name, regardless of what they say - those squiggles of text composed of a sequence of 1’s and 0’s- they are all lie.

  Labels are for the birds, reality is hyper-nameless and not a word can be said of it in its true nature.  Mere approximation, performed by an ignorant, highly fallible human animal of the mammalian type - subject to delusions, illusions, and a host of hindrances and distractions.  All attempts to speak of it are symbolic at best.
****

Without 2 truths doctrine , we would have to stop right there, at least in a philosophical debate or any debate or discussion in which we all have agreed to terms and their definitions before hand.




The thing that seems to make solipsism the most untrue/impractical/boring as a philosophy for me
is that it takes a position of certainty on the unknowable

while solipsism makes certain the claim that nothing exists outside the entity
Madhyamaka asks the question whether things can be known to exist, or even the entity -- the position is that both are uncertain because they depend on each other
can't have experiences without an experiencer; no real experiencer without experiences

that is where the two-truths becomes of interest to me
it starts asking questions of the implications of reality; recognizing the ultimate emptiness of reality while examining what that emptiness means for the lived experience




I’m slowly working past solipsism as I find it to be rather insufficient to explain things and I’m becoming aware of the glaring holes in it.

I guess in this case my fear overwrote my logical thinking because I was so terrified of it being true that I ended up believing it despite it numerous flaws.




:hug:

I'm still terrified of the concept of rebirth,
despite being able to find logical flaws with it and not personally holding a belief in it
ideas and concepts can get fucky in how they play with the brain sometimes

:bubbles:

let's not even start with OCD causing me to perform actions in attempts to offset imagined reprecussions
even if we provisionally think of the actions performed as being real


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26619560 - 04/22/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thanatos10 isn't real. You are all wasting your time in this thread. The laws of the universe make it clear that Thanatos10 is a fairy tale. A bad fairy tale at that.

:billythumbdown:


--------------------


HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Niffla] * 1
    #26619566 - 04/22/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Thanatos10 isn't real. You are all wasting your time in this thread. The laws of the universe make it clear that Thanatos10 is a fairy tale. A bad fairy tale at that.

:billythumbdown:




is this the zZZz19 vaccine kicking in?


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InvisiblePrimal Glitch
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Niffla] * 2
    #26619568 - 04/22/20 08:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I used to believe Thanatos10 was real but I think I'm getting better :sammy:


--------------------

                                  make the changa you wish to see in the world
                                                                gnome sayin'?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Thanatos10] * 3
    #26619570 - 04/22/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I’m slowly working past solipsism as I find it to be rather insufficient to explain things and I’m becoming aware of the glaring holes in it.

I guess in this case my fear overwrote my logical thinking because I was so terrified of it being true that I ended up believing it despite it numerous flaws.



I really admire the humility you show in this post.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26619573 - 04/22/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
Thanatos10 isn't real. You are all wasting your time in this thread. The laws of the universe make it clear that Thanatos10 is a fairy tale. A bad fairy tale at that.

:billythumbdown:




is this the zZZz19 vaccine kicking in?




Yes the zZZz-19 vaccine works

I'm back to my normal self

:crankcid:


--------------------


HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: Niffla] * 1
    #26619590 - 04/22/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Belief in Thanatos is just how they control your mind man.  They use that to make you their slaves man..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: I'm beginning to think Thanatos10 is a figment of our collective imagination [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 3
    #26619634 - 04/22/20 09:29 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Now I must contemplate suicide, since it seems like the only escape from all of it. I don’t want to go on living doubting other people




Dont do it bro. The Spirit Realm will punish u for suicide. Its not worth it man!



WTF!? DO NOT threaten suicide so easily like it's nothing Thanotos!:mad2:


--------------------


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