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InvisibleHartford
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Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows
    #26611202 - 04/18/20 08:24 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Samples of active gymnopilus lutefolius from Northern California have been proven to contain no psilocybin, according to the article on erowid that I just read.

https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article9.shtml

That means it's legal to grow that variety, which is said to be weak, but active, nonetheless!

Is anyone familiar with this subspecies, where it can be found or knows someone who can get it? It seems like a nice kind of mushroom to grow on a large scale, if the effects are pleasant.


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OfflineJe77Ce11ar
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26617747 - 04/21/20 03:05 PM (5 months, 27 days ago)

I just put some g. luteo spores to agar last night. Received the print from the PNW. I knew theyd be only slightly active, but hopefully theyre active nonetheless. Once I have it grown out and cleaned up, ill probably be offering them for sale/trade in the marketplace so keep an eye on that.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Hartford] * 3
    #26619186 - 04/22/20 04:55 AM (5 months, 26 days ago)

Gymnopilus luteofolius was described from New York, growing on birch.  It probably doesn't occur in the west coast.  I would really like to get a sample from birch on NY for DNA sequencing. 

In the west there are two species which look similar - Gymnopilus thiersii, which stains green and is weakly active (adose is 10 - 20 dry grams), and G. dilepis, which is inactive.

I have sequenced quite a few collections of red capped Gymnopilus from California, and the sequences all fall into two clades.  G. thiersii is larger and has capitate cheilocystidia, while G. dilepis is smaller, only found in wood chips and has ventricose cheilocystidia without expanded apices.

Gymnopilus thiersii cheilocystidia:  https://images.mushroomobserver.org/1280/1000074.jpg

Phylogenetic tree showing my collections of G. dilepis (top) and G. thiersii (bottom):  https://images.mushroomobserver.org/1280/720463.jpg

Gymnopilus dilepis DNA sequence:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MG937798
Gymnopilus thiersii DNA sequence: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MH091711

G. dilepis was almost certainly the species that was tested in the linked Erowid article.  I've linked Earth Erowid to this thread.



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OfflineJe77Ce11ar
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26620178 - 04/22/20 04:44 PM (5 months, 26 days ago)

Thanks Alan, any suggestions as to how i could determine definitively what I got? Unfortunately, I dont have any sequencing equipment or even a microscope. I'll try to contact the seller of the print and inquire about the phylogeny. If youd be willing, I could send you the sample culture and see what you determine?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Je77Ce11ar]
    #26620950 - 04/22/20 10:10 PM (5 months, 25 days ago)

I already have a lot of stuff to sequence so I couldn't promise I can get sequencing results, I could scope some gill fragments though.  Best bet would be to send a culture or cap to http://alvalab.es for ITS sequencing.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #26620956 - 04/22/20 10:12 PM (5 months, 25 days ago)

Looks like there will be an update to the Erowid page:



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OfflineInnoculatethewest
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Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #26621174 - 04/23/20 12:39 AM (5 months, 25 days ago)

Hey yall, here are some pics from the original specimen brought into question. This specimen was found in the wild in Portland Oregon. Has not been sequenced but were quite confident its lutefolius. The photos are of an a indoor cultivation from spores of the wild species. This is my first time posting here so let me know if those images come through. Alan thanks for the input and let me know if you want a print.












Edited by Innoculatethewest (04/23/20 01:15 AM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Innoculatethewest]
    #26621578 - 04/23/20 08:05 AM (5 months, 25 days ago)

Unlikely to be G. luteofolius because that species was described from New York, growing on birch.  If you have $20 on it, send it to alvalab.es for ITS sequencing.  I would also be really interested to know what shape the cheilocystidia is.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26621581 - 04/23/20 08:06 AM (5 months, 25 days ago)

This thread is now linked in the Erowid page mentioned in the OP!

https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article9.shtml#note1


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OfflineInnoculatethewest
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26621954 - 04/23/20 11:59 AM (5 months, 25 days ago)

Nice! Ok I will send it in for sequencing. Will get the spores under a scope when I can.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Hartford]
    #26623605 - 04/24/20 12:58 AM (5 months, 24 days ago)

Wow! It's hard to believe these don't contain psilocybin, because look at the bluing! Are you sure they don't contain psilocybin? What are the effects like?


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OfflineJe77Ce11ar
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Re: Active Gymnopilus luteofolius from California contains no Psilocybin, study shows [Re: Hartford]
    #26623658 - 04/24/20 01:39 AM (5 months, 24 days ago)

Its not a question of if they contain psil. Its a matter of possible misidentification.

If they are indeed thiersii, theyd be way less potent than cubes...ive read 15-20g would be a normal trip.

Thank you Allen for that link!!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Innoculatethewest]
    #26626448 - 04/25/20 09:28 AM (5 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Innoculatethewest said:
Nice! Ok I will send it in for sequencing. Will get the spores under a scope when I can.





Spores are io too heopfil in this case, it's the shape of the cheilocystidia that we need to know.


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OfflineDdaShroom
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26669330 - 05/13/20 09:56 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Would this indicate that there are:

A) Gymnopilus luteofolius out there that contain psylobin and Gymnopilus luteofolius that do not contain any at all?

B) All Gymnopilus luteofolius contain a hallucinogenic compound that isnt psilocybin? A new psychadelic compound?

C) Something else entirely?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: DdaShroom] * 2
    #26670009 - 05/14/20 07:05 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

A is unlikely, B is likely and C is certain.


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OfflineDdaShroom
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26675895 - 05/17/20 01:34 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
A is unlikely, B is likely and C is certain.



What would that compound be? From what I'm reading,  thiersii may be what is in question. The thiersii in question also contain no psilocybin, but is still active somehow?


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: DdaShroom]
    #26676131 - 05/17/20 04:49 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

It's probably B but with a known compound. Like baeocystin


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OfflineMycoactive
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: poisoned]
    #26676479 - 05/17/20 10:36 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

A few Gym species contain alpha-pyrones. These molecules are potentially psychoactive as well and might contribute to the effects. Plus, baeocystin is unlikely active on its own based on studies in mice and human bioassays of 4-HO-NMT (the likely metabolite of baeocystin). It could potentiate/change the activity of psilocin, but a mushroom with only baeocystin would probably have no discernible psychoactive effects.


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OfflineDdaShroom
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: Mycoactive] * 1
    #26676702 - 05/17/20 01:21 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Mycoactive said:
A few Gym species contain alpha-pyrones. These molecules are potentially psychoactive as well and might contribute to the effects. Plus, baeocystin is unlikely active on its own based on studies in mice and human bioassays of 4-HO-NMT (the likely metabolite of baeocystin). It could potentiate/change the activity of psilocin, but a mushroom with only baeocystin would probably have no discernible psychoactive effects.



So it is a mixture of multiple different substances that is creating psychoactive effects? Interesting


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OfflineMycoactive
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Re: Original images of discussed specimen [Re: DdaShroom]
    #26676983 - 05/17/20 04:07 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Hasn't been proven, but that would definitely be my guess because many Gym species contain psilocybin, but they also contain other potentially active molecules and, anecdotally at least, the experience is distinguishable from experiences with Psilocybe.


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