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OfflineYthanA
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There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say * 1
    #26618733 - 04/21/20 11:00 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say
www.insider.com

When you enter a marijuana dispensary you're met with sterile white walls and glass-encased counters that hold marijuana flower, vape pens, chocolates, gummies, and other psychoactive goodies.

Whether a dispensary has a menu hung on its wall, a digital list patrons can scroll through on an iPad, or a physical paper booklet they can flip through, these informational materials, at the very least, classify each marijuana strain as an "indica," "sativa," or "hybrid," and may also include information on the effects and THC concentrations of the Sour Diesel strain or the Blue Dream strain, for example.

This setup, adopted by breeders, dispensary owners, and consumers, suggests there's a dichotomy of marijuana types: indica, which is said to physically relax the body and give a sedative effect, and sativa, which is said to be energizing and provide more of a head-high. Hybrid strains are also sold and considered a midway point between indica and sativa marijuana strains.

In reality, no scientific evidence supports this dichotomy because on a molecular level, indica and sativa strains don't have pattern differences that set the two "types" apart from each other. As a result, consumers may inadvertently buy marijuana strains that don't actually align with the perceived effects they're marketed to provide.

Still, consumers and retailers still use the classification system because it's the only one available, which makes pinpointing the best strains for each person's end goal a trial-and-error process.

"In the absence of any other useful system to classify marijuana, strain and indica-sativa dichotomy is all breeders and distributors have, kind of like what Winston Churchill said about democracy," Jeff Chen, the Director of the UCLA Cannabis Research Initiative, told Insider. "It's the worst system invented, but the best we have."

Researchers now know that on a molecular level, there's no difference between an indica strain and a sativa strain of marijuana, but that wasn't always the case.

In the 18th century, shortly before North American farmers began growing their own cannabis, French biologist Jean Baptiste Lamark proposed a cannabis classification system based on the appearance of the various cannabis plant samples he had been sent from India, according to the journal Cannabinoids.

Through his observations, Lamark decided cannabis indica plants were shorter and firmer stems with thick stubby leaves that grew in alternating patterns, while sativa-type plants were taller with feathery thin leaves. Lamark said each of the two plants, because of their physical traits, had different uses and effects.

Lamark's classification wasn't a perfect approach though, and in the years following, botanists challenged his dichotomy theory, saying there was actually only one cannabis breed, cannabis sativa L, which could adapt and take on various physical traits and provide different brain and body effects, explaining why two cannabis plants can look so different.

But by then, medical professionals interested in the healing properties of cannabis had adopted the sativa and indica dichotomy as a way to make the substance more palatable and less scary-sounding to the mainstream who had become fearful of the mysterious drug.

Still, as new technologies emerged that allowed researchers to examine cannabis at its molecular level, they found even more evidence that the system Lamark created, one that breeders, sellers, and consumers adopted for various reasons over the decades, was inaccurate.

When researchers were finally able to look at cannabis plants on more granular levels, they found the plant's looks weren't everything and using its physical traits to determine its effect was too simplistic of an approach.

According to Chen, scientists realized through molecular testing that there is just one species of cannabis, cannabis sativa L.

The reason it can look and act so differently in the body from strain to strain is because the environment in which the plant is grown can change its flavor and effect profile while maintaining its genetic base. Factors like the temperature, humidity, soil nutrients, sunlight, and altitude can all affect how a person who smokes, vapes, or eats a marijuana product from that strain will physically react, Chen said.

So a Sour Diesel strain grown in California will smell, look, taste, and cause body reactions that aren't identical to the physical and chemical properties of Sour Diesel grown in Colorado.

For that reason, some breeders and sellers have started using terpenes to classify marijuana strains. Terpenes are non-psychoactive organic compounds found in marijuana that play a role in the smell and flavor of each strain, but there are over 100 different ones, meaning this system could be just as complicated as a trial-and-error one.

Jake Pasternack, the CEO of marijuana brand Binske, compares this approach to beer drinking: "I know I like pilsners and am simple when it comes to beer, but I didn't know that until I tried other types of beer."

Unlike the old-world wine industry where grape growers must follow a governing body's strict set of guidelines, there isn't a regulatory agency in the marijuana industry that requires cultivars to name their strains a certain way, Pasternack told Insider.

"So you see a massive mislabelling of strains, which is often unintentional," Pasternack said, because many cultivars get sent their marijuana seeds from a massive seed bank and don't always know the exact chemical compositions of those seeds, which eventually grow into the plants they harvest and sell to dispensaries.

Today, cannabis growers or cultivars also crossbreed certain strains to make their own proprietary blends, further complicating the process for consumers who are on the hunt for a specific marijuana-induced effect.

At Binske, for example, Pasternack and his team will crossbreed six or seven different strains of marijuana to create one-of-a-kind strains that only Binske knows the recipe for and sells.

Pasternack tells a dispensary a couple of the strains his team used to give those retailers a general idea of what they're selling with consumers come into the store asking questions.

Despite the shortcomings of the indica and sativa classification system, the industry and consumers continue to use it when selling and shopping for marijuana.

"It's a tragic comedy in this space," Pasternack said. "The retail establishment wants to keep it as simple as possible for consumers because they're often coming fresh into the space without knowledge" of marijuana.

An unintended result of keeping things simple, however, could be leaving consumers who are eager to experience the pain-relieving or anxiety-decreasing effects of marijuana feeling confused or defeated because they didn't get what they thought they were getting when they asked for an indica or sativa or hybrid.

If a more accurate system existed, that same group of people could more easily come across a life-changing solution, like realizing a particular strain significantly manages their depression symptoms, and decide they no longer need antidepressants, Chen said.

For the time being, Chen and Pasternack both believe a trial-and-error approach, rather than saying you only like indicas or sativas, is the best way for a person to pinpoint the marijuana strains that work well for their needs.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Ythan] * 4
    #26618956 - 04/22/20 12:58 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Ive literally been saying this for years.

Its all marketing.

You cant tell stoners anything that goes against their beliefs.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle] * 2
    #26618968 - 04/22/20 01:03 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Working in the industry as much as I have has made me hate 90+% of potheads.

"Do you have any ACAPULCO PURPLE GRANDAD OG SHISKABERRY THUNDERFUCK GRANDAD?"

Hold on, let me go look.......

Me in my head-(Just buy some weed you fucking dipshit)


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/22/20 01:25 AM)


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OfflineHappySloth
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Ythan] * 2
    #26619255 - 04/22/20 06:03 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Last time I looked there were 140+ discovered cannabinoids - undoubtley they all vary in their effects, which explains the vast differences in the high from diff types of cannabis.

I always imagined it like a stereos equaliser



Imagine each of these represented each cannabinoid and its concentration and then imagine 140 of them and thats what the cannabinoid profile of plant could look like.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: HappySloth] * 4
    #26619363 - 04/22/20 07:59 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I don't think there is no difference between every strain(although at high doses it might seem like it)...just that the sativa/indica dichotomy is false, and the differences we associate with the 2 are a result of epigenetic changes brought about by different environments.

Although since growers "know" that Sativa "prefers" one set of conditions and Indicas grow "better" under another...it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

This is old news, no? I thought this was common knowledge by now, at least among anyone who stays up to date on such things. I knew the market had been slow to adapt, but I kind of thought the indica/sativa misnomers had begun to be employed to describe the way each strain is used(whether backed up by evidence or not) and not the physical characteristics of said plants.

Quote:

Working in the industry as much as I have has made me hate 90+% of potheads.

"Do you have any ACAPULCO PURPLE GRANDAD OG SHISKABERRY THUNDERFUCK GRANDAD?"

Hold on, let me go look.......

Me in my head-(Just buy some weed you fucking dipshit)




Whether the effects are indistinguishable or not, taste/smell/harshness and visual characteristics absolutely are. If working in a package store and someone was looking for a specific bottle/beer, because they liked the way it drank, you wouldn't think "just buy any bottle of wine, they are all the same" would you?


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OfflineReynardTheFox
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26619741 - 04/22/20 12:12 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
Ive literally been saying this for years.

Its all marketing.

You cant tell stoners anything that goes against their beliefs.



Ditto. It's like people who aren't super tasters getting all hoity toity about expensive wine. Sure you can tell the difference between okay stuff and the really cheap stuff, but most people actually can't detect expensive wine vs regular wine. People just love to play into this game so that the whole thing seems more sophisticated than it is.


--------------------
"Every actual State is corrupt. Good men must not obey laws too well" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"If I am the devil's child, I will live then, by the devil" - Ralph Waldo Emerson


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InvisibletyrannicalrexS
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ReynardTheFox]
    #26619930 - 04/22/20 01:49 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I fuckin' love this! I used to wait tables and tend bars. I have worked in fast food to yacht clubs, and those fucking wine snobs and ALL that fucking wine shit irks me beyond anything! I absolutely loathed those fucking tastings with a french sommelier etc... :scat::scat::scat:Fuck ALL YA'LL! This experiment proves it's mostly (I say all) horseshit! The weed people are getting like this (mostly are already) too with all these fucking concentrates and diamonds etc...:scat::scat::scat:  If you need a bud sprayed in hash oil and then rolled in kief to get high, you might need a fucking tolerance break!





In 2001, Frederic Brochet conducted two experiments at the University of Bordeaux.

In one experiment, he got 54 oenology (the study of wine tasting and wine making) undergraduates together and had them taste one glass of red wine and one glass of white wine. He had them describe each wine in as much detail as their expertise would allow. What he didn't tell them was both were the same wine. He just dyed the white one red. In the other experiment, he asked the experts to rate two different bottles of red wine. One was very expensive, the other was cheap. Again, he tricked them. This time he had put the cheap wine in both bottles. So what were the results?

The tasters in the first experiment, the one with the dyed wine, described the sorts of berries and grapes and tannins they could detect in the red wine just as if it really was red. Every single one, all 54, could not tell it was white. In the second experiment, the one with the switched labels, the subjects went on and on about the cheap wine in the expensive bottle. They called it complex and rounded. They called the same wine in the cheap bottle weak and flat.

Another experiment at Cal-Tech pitted five bottles of wine against each other. They ranged in price from $5 to $90. Similarly, the experimenters put cheap wine in the expensive bottles -- but this time they put the tasters in a brain scanner. While tasting the wine, the same parts of the brain would light up in the machine every time, but with the wine the tasters thought was expensive, one particular region of the brain became more active. Another study had tasters rate cheese eaten with two different wines. One they were told was from California, the other from North Dakota. The same wine was in both bottles. The tasters rated the cheese they ate with the California wine as being better quality, and they ate more of it.

So is the fancy world of wine tasting all pretentious bunk? Not exactly. The wine tasters in the experiments above were being influenced by the nasty beast of expectation. A wine expert's objectivity and powers of taste under normal circumstance might be amazing, but Brochet's manipulations of the environment misled his subjects enough to dampen their acumen. An expert's own expectation can act like Kryptonite on their superpowers. Expectation, as it turns out, is just as important as raw sensation. The build up to an experience can completely change how you interpret the information reaching your brain from your otherwise objective senses. In psychology, true objectivity is pretty much considered to be impossible. Memories, emotions, conditioning, and all sorts of other mental flotsam taint every new experience you gain. In addition to all this, your expectations powerfully influence the final vote in your head over what you believe to be reality. So, when tasting a wine, or watching a movie, or going on a date, or listening to a new stereo through $300 audio cables -- some of what you experience comes from within and some comes from without. Expensive wine is like anything else that is expensive, the expectation it will taste better actually makes it taste better.


--------------------

Watermelon man-"I think that society and just everything , it dose a good job at making people want to live some bull shit fairytale. it's mostly just so they can suck whatever out of us. The only thing they can suck is my dick." :smile:


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26620084 - 04/22/20 03:45 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I think what research like this fails to look at is the geographical history of different Cannabis.

Indica and sativa have become fairly meaningless with the amount of hybrids. But the origin of strain genetics is not meaningless. There are also things like Ruderalis which is a very distinct Russian sativa plant used in hybrids to create autoflower strains.

There certainly can be differences between cannabis native to Africa and cannabis native to asia. And even after generations of hybrids the original genetics can play a significant role in certain factors like ideal temperature.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibletyrannicalrexS
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420]
    #26620096 - 04/22/20 03:55 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

yeeaahhhh, but it all gets a person high. Also a persons body chemical make up/homeostasis etc..can effect the high. I do remember that old Columbian gold and regular Columbian being really nice though.


--------------------

Watermelon man-"I think that society and just everything , it dose a good job at making people want to live some bull shit fairytale. it's mostly just so they can suck whatever out of us. The only thing they can suck is my dick." :smile:


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26620175 - 04/22/20 04:43 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Its not the strain, Its how it was grown and harvested.

EVERYTHING is a hybrid now, pure varieties are very rare.

Kind of like they say with people, as long as we keep fucking each other sooner or later we will all be the same color.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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InvisibletyrannicalrexS
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26620184 - 04/22/20 04:48 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

LOL, so true. I'm going to sow some seeds this year outdoors in local dirt from my yard. It was after some landscaping on a 50yo yard so no pesticides etc...are in it for sure. I'm thinking of mixing in some potting soil mix in the first couple of inches of soil as well.


--------------------

Watermelon man-"I think that society and just everything , it dose a good job at making people want to live some bull shit fairytale. it's mostly just so they can suck whatever out of us. The only thing they can suck is my dick." :smile:


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26620206 - 04/22/20 04:56 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I would argue soil is probably one of the biggest factors when it comes to having healthy robust plants.

The more room the roots have, the bigger the plant will get.

The more nutritious the soil, the quicker it will grow.

The more diverse the microbes and nutrients the danker the buds.

Ive have had great success with mushroom compost in the past.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26620212 - 04/22/20 05:00 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
I fuckin' love this! I used to wait tables and tend bars. I have worked in fast food to yacht clubs, and those fucking wine snobs and ALL that fucking wine shit irks me beyond anything! I absolutely loathed those fucking tastings with a french sommelier etc... :scat::scat::scat:Fuck ALL YA'LL! This experiment proves it's mostly (I say all) horseshit! The weed people are getting like this (mostly are already) too with all these fucking concentrates and diamonds etc...:scat::scat::scat:  If you need a bud sprayed in hash oil and then rolled in kief to get high, you might need a fucking tolerance break!





In 2001, Frederic Brochet conducted two experiments at the University of Bordeaux.

In one experiment, he got 54 oenology (the study of wine tasting and wine making) undergraduates together and had them taste one glass of red wine and one glass of white wine. He had them describe each wine in as much detail as their expertise would allow. What he didn't tell them was both were the same wine. He just dyed the white one red. In the other experiment, he asked the experts to rate two different bottles of red wine. One was very expensive, the other was cheap. Again, he tricked them. This time he had put the cheap wine in both bottles. So what were the results?

The tasters in the first experiment, the one with the dyed wine, described the sorts of berries and grapes and tannins they could detect in the red wine just as if it really was red. Every single one, all 54, could not tell it was white. In the second experiment, the one with the switched labels, the subjects went on and on about the cheap wine in the expensive bottle. They called it complex and rounded. They called the same wine in the cheap bottle weak and flat.

Another experiment at Cal-Tech pitted five bottles of wine against each other. They ranged in price from $5 to $90. Similarly, the experimenters put cheap wine in the expensive bottles -- but this time they put the tasters in a brain scanner. While tasting the wine, the same parts of the brain would light up in the machine every time, but with the wine the tasters thought was expensive, one particular region of the brain became more active. Another study had tasters rate cheese eaten with two different wines. One they were told was from California, the other from North Dakota. The same wine was in both bottles. The tasters rated the cheese they ate with the California wine as being better quality, and they ate more of it.

So is the fancy world of wine tasting all pretentious bunk? Not exactly. The wine tasters in the experiments above were being influenced by the nasty beast of expectation. A wine expert's objectivity and powers of taste under normal circumstance might be amazing, but Brochet's manipulations of the environment misled his subjects enough to dampen their acumen. An expert's own expectation can act like Kryptonite on their superpowers. Expectation, as it turns out, is just as important as raw sensation. The build up to an experience can completely change how you interpret the information reaching your brain from your otherwise objective senses. In psychology, true objectivity is pretty much considered to be impossible. Memories, emotions, conditioning, and all sorts of other mental flotsam taint every new experience you gain. In addition to all this, your expectations powerfully influence the final vote in your head over what you believe to be reality. So, when tasting a wine, or watching a movie, or going on a date, or listening to a new stereo through $300 audio cables -- some of what you experience comes from within and some comes from without. Expensive wine is like anything else that is expensive, the expectation it will taste better actually makes it taste better.




That expirement says more about psychology than the taste of wine...I don't know about cheap vs expensive(there are horrible expensive wines and decent to very good "cheap" ones) but you can absolutely taste the differences in wine, even of the same type. It's not like all red wine tastes the same, and all white wine tastes the same, it's not even like every Cabernet or Riesling tastes the same.

Claiming so is akin to saying every lager tastes like bud light or that there is no difference between a pilsner and an ale.


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InvisibletyrannicalrexS
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26620220 - 04/22/20 05:04 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I still like the duping of those snobby fuckers.:shrug: IDK if you've ever waited tables or not, or even in an "upscale" place. It's such fucking horseshit the way they act about wine it makes me want to puke all over them. I'm so VERY happy I'm not in that biz anymore. There's been more studies done (can't be bothered to look it up) where several different people from different parts of the world guess 50/50 on cheap versus expensive wines. I have had a 1926 wine and it was pretty different, but other than that, it's all horseshit to me.


--------------------

Watermelon man-"I think that society and just everything , it dose a good job at making people want to live some bull shit fairytale. it's mostly just so they can suck whatever out of us. The only thing they can suck is my dick." :smile:


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26620233 - 04/22/20 05:10 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

where several different people from different parts of the world guess 50/50 on cheap versus expensive wines




That may have something to do with their pallette, cheap(well depending on how cheap we are talking here) wines are often made to be drinkable by a larger portion of the population, they are made to not offend.

But in my experience, outside certain price windows or thresholds, price has very little to do with a wines taste...at least not its appeal or quality. At best price is only tangentially related to taste.

I mean you can pull random people off the street and there will be plenty who prefer mass brewed adjunct beers, who drink bud light and stella, that doesn't mean they are no different(and definitely not better) than craft beers.

On the same token, there are also plenty of bad micro brews at top shelf prices.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/22/20 05:22 PM)


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26620273 - 04/22/20 05:23 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I've had 3000 dollar bottles and compared them to 25 dollar ones,some from all over the world and so on. It's still the BS that surrounds wine and all that shit. I can't stand any of it and the pretentiousness just makes me want vomit. I drink wine occasionally though, and my experience has taught me to pick a decent one, but I hate all the pretense/pretentiousness and shit surrounding that wine snobbery. This was given to me and the now ex by Harold Stevenson (also a painting) and I always wanted to open it, but the ex hid that bitch.


I could see this kind of wine being something sort of special, but who in the fuck wants to pay a price like they charge for it? I will NEVER do that. I can find a perfectly good decent wine of any type/kind whatever in the 20-60 dollar range.


--------------------

Watermelon man-"I think that society and just everything , it dose a good job at making people want to live some bull shit fairytale. it's mostly just so they can suck whatever out of us. The only thing they can suck is my dick." :smile:


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Ythan] * 2
    #26620339 - 04/22/20 05:47 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Huh... well glad this is being discussed again. One of my first threads here was on how there's no quantifiable difference in effect between indica vs. sativa. Also would like to mention the entourage effect was also disproven a while back.

What I do subscribe to is an anticipatory effect changing the way that cannabinoid receptors are activated. Like context specific memories you associate with a certain Cannabis flavor that will affect your high when you encounter a similar taste later. The terpenes have no direct influence on the chemistry, but they do facilitate a type of psychosomatic response.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #26620557 - 04/22/20 07:05 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Any bud tender will tell you,

The difference between the 25$ 8th and the 55$ 8th is minimal.

Growing potent cannabis is fairly easy, growing cannabis that tastes good and is enjoyable to smoke is a lot more difficult.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/22/20 07:07 PM)


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26620560 - 04/22/20 07:06 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Its funny, ever since legalization, that "rockstar" weed is even harder to come by.

I used to get 150-200$ ozs from the weed man that the store would charge 400+ an oz for.

Maybe its cause those large scale grow ops only care about cranking out as much as they can, and not so much about the quality.

Ive seen first hand a lot of this industry's dirty little secrets, especially with the concentrate market.....



--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/22/20 07:11 PM)


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26620676 - 04/22/20 07:36 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
Any bud tender will tell you,

The difference between the 25$ 8th and the 55$ 8th is minimal.




Maybe in confidence but I've heard some wacky shit from budtenders trying to convince me to buy stuff.

I think quality has gone down considerably with compliant lab testing, pushing large scale grows to go for high THC not quality flower.

Extracts are a whole 'nother can of badgers, especially with vape carts.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #26620743 - 04/22/20 08:09 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I already knew this. No one can tell sativa vs indica in blind taste tests. Minimum wage dispensary employees should not be giving out health advice anyway. I smoke weed but the entire culture around it is obnoxious


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26621628 - 04/23/20 08:44 AM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
Any bud tender will tell you,

The difference between the 25$ 8th and the 55$ 8th is minimal.

Growing potent cannabis is fairly easy, growing cannabis that tastes good and is enjoyable to smoke is a lot more difficult.




That's kind of been my whole point through this entire thread....the difference between two strains in potency may be minimal, but that doesn't speak to all the other differences between them.

Quote:

but I hate all the pretense/pretentiousness and shit surrounding that wine snobbery.




That still speaks more to your experiences with people, and doesn't say one single thing about wine.

Same thing with stupid potheads who think they know WTF they are talking about and don't...just because they are puttings on airs, can't distinguish myth from fact, and aren't familiar with the real science surrounding the topics they believes themselves to be experts in...thats their problem, and it has nothing to do with cannabis in and of itself.

And I am sure as fuck not going to let them limit me, or stop me from experiencing the joy of exploring the nuances between different strains of cannabis any more than I would let a wine snob stop me from uncorking and enjoying a good bottle.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/23/20 08:57 AM)


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26621680 - 04/23/20 09:25 AM (1 month, 4 days ago)

as far as potency vs price there's very little difference if any at all. In my opinion,  THC content combined with cannabinoid content, terpenes and the other properties of the cannabis strains on the market are what makes them unique when used as a medicine and not just a vehicle to get high. Marketing tactics also play a part in the scheme,  kind of similar to the Cubensis strains being marketed today, essentially a cube is a cube but some like pens envy will have certain traits not seen in other strains but on a DNA  level it's just a cube.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Ythan]
    #26621723 - 04/23/20 09:49 AM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I always thought that it was a matter of marketing and personal suggestion, now scientist seems to think the same.

but I also think that any plants is different and as a different ratio of molecule in it, but it's a mater of cultivation more then I matter of strain in my opinion


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: mr. whothehell]
    #26621754 - 04/23/20 10:05 AM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I think it varies plant to plant personally, at least that seems to have been my experience so far. Take Jack Here saliva for instance,  I've had it some like what you would think a saliva should be like; energetic, invigorating, can cause anxiety, but then it has also been like an indica where I get couch lock.

Marketing is a major factor in the way it is presented to the public,  but in my opinion it doesn't need all this glitter and fancy terminology, the bud speaks for itself so many variations in the same strain.


--------------------
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26621838 - 04/23/20 10:45 AM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Buckomcdoogle said:
Working in the industry as much as I have has made me hate 90+% of potheads.

"Do you have any ACAPULCO PURPLE GRANDAD OG SHISKABERRY THUNDERFUCK GRANDAD?"

Hold on, let me go look.......

Me in my head-(Just buy some weed you fucking dipshit)




Sometimes I think it'd be fun to work at the pot store and lead people on.

"This particular strain drives a deep desire for Pink Floyd and Cheetos.  While this one over here will make you draw pianos."


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: viraldrome] * 1
    #26622051 - 04/23/20 12:58 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

After 35 years in the bar/rest biz I've seen and waited on and met a wide variety of people, and that wine shit is just that, horseshit (IMHE) Pay as much or as little as you like and go wherever you like. Been there, done it all. I say enjoy life as you like.:heart: I was stating my very strong opinions on the whole weed and wine biz. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. The best weed I ever had was what I grew, lol. I'm not about to make any wine, shit hurts my stomach anyway.

Quote:

viraldrome said:
I smoke weed but the entire culture around it is obnoxious



I agree 100%


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26622432 - 04/23/20 03:53 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I disagree.

Sativas take longer to flower and are taller, plus the buds are shaped like a spear. That certainly is different.

I have Sativa based CBD trim and it is energizing. 
I also know people from Sudan that Sativas do not work for, and they always prefereed Indica.  Sudanese Charcoal Black people.  The younger brother he grew up here and Sativa did work for him. the older Cats, Nope.



Edited by downlowfunk (04/23/20 04:26 PM)


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: downlowfunk]
    #26622540 - 04/23/20 04:33 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Different weed is definitely different in my experience. It's not placebo because back in the day before weed was legal I often had no idea what strain I was getting but I would notice differences.  How much of that is due to environmental factors or genetics is harder to say.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26622590 - 04/23/20 04:57 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Different weed is definitely different in my experience. It's not placebo because back in the day before weed was legal I often had no idea what strain I was getting but I would notice differences.  How much of that is due to environmental factors or genetics is harder to say.



how long had it been sitting in some warehouse is another in illegal weed, especially the brick weed from south of the border.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Doc9151]
    #26623103 - 04/23/20 08:22 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Bullshit. I've been using medical marijuana for 12 years since I was 14 one of the first in California of that age I've had A LOT of weed over the years and as nice as sativa can be, even the highest thc sativa can't take away certain muscle and stomach pains. Also indicas are always more shooting during ptsd attacks. Also several times people have tried to trick me and every single time I know whether it's a sativa by how it works medically. Maybe that's just me I don't know for sure if that's definitely a lot of experience specifically with medicating.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26623366 - 04/23/20 10:24 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I think it has more to do with when you harvest it than anything else, along with how its stored/cured.

Were the trichomes clear, milky or amber?

When THC degrades it turns into CBN aka CANNABINOL.

Which is responsible for the sometimes unpleasant anxienty inducing effects.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26623374 - 04/23/20 10:27 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Ever have weed that gives you a really dirty gross feeling buzz?

Yeah, thats CBN, It was either:

A. Stored improperly.
B. Harvested too late.
C. Or it's been sitting around for a long time.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/23/20 10:28 PM)


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26623376 - 04/23/20 10:28 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

When you harvest bud with clear trichomes, the buzz is definitely a lot more uppity/speedy


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26623401 - 04/23/20 10:39 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

So you're saying white widow grown well could put people to sleep like most indicas can ? It usually seems like two different experiences. Is it easier to grow indicas? Maybe that could be it


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26623418 - 04/23/20 10:48 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

The only time genetics really matter is when you are growing it, it effects how long the plant takes to flower.

Sativas can grow substantially bigger but you are looking at 3-4 moths of flowering as opposed to an indica that might be done in 60-80 days.

Any non autoflower plant has the potential to yield 1 lb+ in the right conditions.

The longer you wait to harvest the plant after its ready, the more sedative it will be.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26623422 - 04/23/20 10:50 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Hmm interesting :themoreyouknow: personally do you feel there's a difference in effect range?


--------------------
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26623468 - 04/23/20 11:16 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Clear trichomes - Speedy. The big problem with harvesting it at this phase is, the plant tacks on a lot of resin in the last week or so.

Milky - This is when the THC or THCA is the highest

Amber - A large portion of the THC has turned into CBN, Its sedative, and more likely to cause anxiety.

There are a lot of different ways people do it, as is the nature of this business.

The absolute best way to tell when a plant is ready to chop, is to look at the trichomes under a microscope/jewelers loupe .


Secret of the trade: Most growers drop the humidity in their grow rooms in the last week or two, it causes the plant to tack on more abundant resin glands.

The theory is, it prevents the plant from losing moisture.

After all, the buds entire purpose of being sticky is to get pollen to stick to it.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/23/20 11:19 PM)


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26624791 - 04/24/20 03:36 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
I think it varies plant to plant personally, at least that seems to have been my experience so far. Take Jack Here saliva for instance,  I've had it some like what you would think a saliva should be like; energetic, invigorating, can cause anxiety, but then it has also been like an indica where I get couch lock.

Marketing is a major factor in the way it is presented to the public,  but in my opinion it doesn't need all this glitter and fancy terminology, the bud speaks for itself so many variations in the same strain.




With seeds for sure, obviously, but if they are clones and are grown and harvested under the same conditions...then the difference is probably you.

Of course, thats the thing with epigenetics, even among clones these differences will still arise if environment is different enough...especially if a couple different grows separate those clones.

This is what growers are seeing when they talk about clone degradation..."genetic drift" is more accurate but it should be "epigenetic drift", thats also why some growers don't believe in it...because the environment has stayed relatively stable through multiple clonings so they don't see it...but if things change from grow to grow, or especially if those clones are propagated by different growers in different settings with different grow methods, you will definitely see it.

But even if growing conditions are the same, method of harvesting is very important...cannabinoids can vary by a surprising amount based on things like light conditions/type/timing, temperature, humidity, even time of day, leading up to and around the time of harvest. Even after harvesting cannabinoid levels can continue to fluctuate for some time.

Don't even get me started on how the bud is treated after harvesting, curing and then storage will have a more profound affect on how it smokes than any other factor, and combined with conditions at harvest can affect flavor/bouquet/aroma almost as much as strain.

I also wanted to touch on marketing, glad you mentioned it, marketing affects people's expectation bias...don't underestimate how powerful this can be. So the way cannabis is marketed creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26625568 - 04/24/20 09:49 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

It only makes a difference to me as a grower.

Harvest times, plant size, harvest weight, etc.

as for effects ive always felt the same. weed either gets me high or it doesn't. as long as it has that smell, taste, and effect of primo weed, you can call it WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU LIKE.

but reggie is reggie no matter what you call it. i live in washington state. not only did it break my heart to watch my real weed plugs go away but i haven't had real fresh quality homegrown shit in so long, im gonna go cry while people buy $55 8ths of overdried dirt and think they're on top of the world.

i actually got convinced to buy a $15 gram from "LOUD" brand yesterday because she gave me %20 and it literally smelled like you took a ball of dry dirt and broke it apart. i know you know that smell.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625585 - 04/24/20 09:55 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Also here in wa.

Those large scale growers dont give a fuck about the quality, as long as it tests over 20% and they have a lot of it they are happy.

Most of the homegrown has disappeared, its simply a labor of love these days.

Its just so much more convenient for people to go to the store at the time of their choosing.

That and the prices have completely bottomed out, theres no money in it anymore.

Weed is worthless until you find someone that wants to buy it.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625620 - 04/24/20 10:10 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Try the KELSO KREEPER if you get a chance.

Decent quality

Good price

Very often its pesticide free


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26625630 - 04/24/20 10:12 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

that percentage crap is the biggest bullshit too.

the best shit ive ever had, real O.G. kush. anyone whos had real o.g. loves it and it doesnt test over 18%. fuck thc pertentages and all this hybrid overbred bs. right with you man.

i came across a porn ad and its the same as porn. it was great when we were kids but now its like meh, im so over it. just let me nut and go to sleep.


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625647 - 04/24/20 10:18 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

ill keep an eye for them but you know how these stupid rec shops run.
I buy freddys fuego. $100 for 14gr. overdried but always really good quality and it works.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625681 - 04/24/20 10:49 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Quote:

ElChapoEscobar said:
that percentage crap is the biggest bullshit too.

the best shit ive ever had, real O.G. kush. anyone whos had real o.g. loves it and it doesnt test over 18%. fuck thc pertentages and all this hybrid overbred bs. right with you man.

i came across a porn ad and its the same as porn. it was great when we were kids but now its like meh, im so over it. just let me nut and go to sleep.



I get that good sativa gets you just as high as indica if it's grown right and has good genetics.


How are thc percentages bullshit? When they send it to a lab and test it, it just doesn't mean anything?
Quote:

ElChapoEscobar said:
ill keep an eye for them but you know how these stupid rec shops run.
I buy freddys fuego. $100 for 14gr. overdried but always really good quality and it works.



Yeah I think those 80-100$ eighths are a total ripoff even if they technically have higher thc after a certain point you should just buy extract for that money. To be clear I'm the kind of person that doesn't give two turtle shits about strain names I like sticky, dense nugs with the kind of potent smell that makes people sneeze it's so overpowering, it always helps my stomach pain in particular more. In my experience those type of nugs are indica. I don't see that a lot in sativas but it's interesting hearing there's just as much potential from a grower.


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


Edited by Seriously_trippin (04/24/20 10:50 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26625705 - 04/24/20 11:15 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

ElChapoEscobar said:
that percentage crap is the biggest bullshit too.

the best shit ive ever had, real O.G. kush. anyone whos had real o.g. loves it and it doesnt test over 18%. fuck thc pertentages and all this hybrid overbred bs. right with you man.

i came across a porn ad and its the same as porn. it was great when we were kids but now its like meh, im so over it. just let me nut and go to sleep.



I get that good sativa gets you just as high as indica if it's grown right and has good genetics.


How are thc percentages bullshit? When they send it to a lab and test it, it just doesn't mean anything?




I think they mean the testing accuracy varies perhaps, around here at least it seems pretty suspect at times. Especially with extracts, I think part of the issue is they test big batches that vary and then give them all a single test result.

Some of the testing labs around here seem pretty shady. I've compared products from different brands that were nearly identical but one brand tested way higher and was always tested by a different lab.

I like having the tests to look at but definitely don't always trust them. Seeing the terpene content is sweet but I hope one day the tests become more thorough and accurate.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420]
    #26625711 - 04/24/20 11:25 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

That makes more sense then testing being total bullshit because most of the big spots in the LA county area go through a pretty well known testing facility and it's one of the reasons it gets so expensive. The place I go to doesn't do it and is much cheaper


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26625725 - 04/24/20 11:34 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

IME high THC doesnt mean it will taste good, in fact ive noted some of the lower packages >20% from the store tend to cost more because they taste better and have more abundant terpenoids.

Commercial grow ops have the option to test for terpenoids, but it costs more than just testing the cannabinoid levels.

On the other hand, ive heard shady things where labs are willing to increase your test results for a bribe.

Also often many rec grow ops will dump kief on bud they send to the lab.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/24/20 11:36 PM)


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26625893 - 04/25/20 01:27 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

yeah, i said it, most percentages are BS. and have you ever had a dense sticky indica nug that didnt do shit for you, or your IBS, or insomnia, or back pain? i have, and too many times to count. and when it comes to a 100% indica i will agree, to a point. it may alleviate symptoms.

RSO is a whole other conversation. i ingest a gram a day, sometimes more. speaking of which...

as for smoking flower. yeah its all gobbaldy-gook unless its something snoop dogg would smoke. even then its bs. itd have to be somethin b-real would smoke. no wait.

and extracts, people need to lay off. i use to dab every day. now i rarely do an its back to the good ol feeling it used to give. glad im not wasting half my day dabbin with homies lol


Edited by ElChapoEscobar (04/25/20 01:30 AM)


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625942 - 04/25/20 02:10 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

RSO - quite simply the best edible on the market. Period.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #26625958 - 04/25/20 02:25 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

I don't know why I am injecting myself into this conversation other than to say hello :hi: to Musiclover -I  hope you are still kicking ass with your synth tones etc.

Indica vs. sativa? I am probably way out of the loop but I have always noticed a difference between the two. But I'm probs older than most of you knuckleheads (relax, I'm just joking). The concept of so many hybrids mixing the effects  of all, that none are expressed in their original psychoboom effects -well that kind of makes sense. But I don't smoke much so :takingnotes:


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26626039 - 04/25/20 03:21 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Has anyone done real double blind experiments with sativa vs indica? That would be the best way to prove/disprove the theory once and for all. I definitely think some weed has a more heavy body, couch lock effect while other weed cerebral. Whether those differences are actually a result of indica vs sativa seems testable in a double blind format.

I did a quick google search and found this:
Quote:


Dr. Russo: We would all prefer simple nostrums to explain complex systems, but this is futile and even potentially dangerous in the context of a psychoactive drug such as Cannabis. Once again, it is necessary to quantify the biochemical components of a given Can- nabis strain and correlate these with the observed ef- fects in real patients. Beyond the increasing number of CBD predominant strains in recent years, almost all Cannabis on the market has been from high- THC strains. The differences in observed effects in Cannabis are then due to their terpenoid content, which is rarely assayed, let alone reported to potential consumers. The sedation of the so-called indica strains is falsely attributed to CBD content when, in fact, CBD is stimulating in low and moderate doses! Rather, sedation in most common Cannabis strains is attributable to their myrcene content, a monoter- pene with a strongly sedative couch-lock effect that resembles a narcotic. In contrast, a high limonene content (common to citrus peels) will be uplifting on mood, while the presence of the relatively rare terpene in Cannabis, alpha-pinene, can effectively re- duce or eliminate the short-term memory impair- ment classically induced by THC.2,8
CCR: How do you think one could address the sativa/ indica dichotomy in a scientifically sound manner?
Dr. Russo: Since the taxonomists cannot agree, I would strongly encourage the scientific community, the press, and the public to abandon the sativa/indica nomencla- ture and rather insist that accurate biochemical assays on cannabinoid and terpenoid profiles be available for Cannabis in both the medical and recreational mar- kets. Scientific accuracy and the public health demand no less than this.





So it seems he is saying those differences exist but aren't necessarily a result of indica vs sativa differences.

I couldn't find any proper double blind experiments though. All I found was some small  scale experiments with only one type of weed and not enough people to really determine anything. The fact that some people can smoke some weed and get it wrong doesn't disprove the theory. However, if a statistically significant number of people could tell the difference between indica and sativa on a consistent bases (even if it was only a small minority  of people doing it without 100% accuracy) that would mean there is a difference.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26626083 - 04/25/20 03:59 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Friggin A Peyote Road! Science man... Science!


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26626266 - 04/25/20 07:16 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Bullshit. I've been using medical marijuana for 12 years since I was 14 one of the first in California of that age I've had A LOT of weed over the years and as nice as sativa can be, even the highest thc sativa can't take away certain muscle and stomach pains. Also indicas are always more shooting during ptsd attacks. Also several times people have tried to trick me and every single time I know whether it's a sativa by how it works medically. Maybe that's just me I don't know for sure if that's definitely a lot of experience specifically with medicating.




First off, what the author is saying and what the scientists are saying ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME THING, even the article itself doesn't reflect its own title.

Here's an excerpt from the article.

Quote:

The reason it can look and act so differently in the body from strain to strain is because the environment in which the plant is grown can change its flavor and effect profile while maintaining its genetic base.




Quote:

...act so differently in the body from strain to strain...and effect profile...




This is where the confusion comes in....they are not claiming there are no differences between different strains of cannabis.

Only that the differences we have historically noticed between "Sativa" and "Indica" are epigenetic in origin, and they aren't two separate species. They are sub-species at best and could just be different varieties.

But, strains we have identified as Indica or Sativa generally have very different geographical origins, and were separated some time ago. Which has given them plenty of time to develop more differences between each other than what you would generally ever see from two different sativa's or two indica's.

Honestly, we should have moved away from the Indica vs Sativa dichotomy a long time ago...as there are probably more than 3(Ruderalis) different varieties/sub-species.

I think classification by geographic origin, while not perfect due to cannabis being traded all over the world so a strain could have been discovered in what is not its true home, would have probably been the best system...you'd have North African Cannabis vs East Asian Cannabis vs Indian Cannabis vs Middle Eastern, etc, etc, etc. And make it clear that said classifications are more about cosmetics, flavor, bouquet, and throat feel...not medicinal...and make medicinal distinctions based on biochemical assays.

I mean, even among a single strain, if grown by seed you can get varying medicinal effects from plant to plant...medicinal distinctions should apply only to clones and it would be best if they didn't rely on anecdotal reports(but could be confirmed by).

So even though they are one species, and the line between Indica and Sativa is thinner and blurrier than what many people think...that doesn't mean every strain of cannabis provides the exact same effects, nobody is claiming that.(other than the authors misleading clickbait title)

As far as the consumer is concerned, for most intents and purposes, the Indica vs Sativa classification system has become the 2 opposite ends of a spectrum of cannabis effects...and is only tangentially related to origin, it's no longer important if they are 2 different species or not, especially since most everything you find now is a hybrid. Problem is, this spectrum is not best represented by a straight line...so as we better understand medicinal effects and how different compounds relate to them, we will need to expand our vocabulary in the future to better represent a spectrum that might more accurately be represented by a triangle or even a circle.

For breeders, growers, and distributors...it's a different story. The sativa/indica dichotomy is limiting, and they need to understand whats actually going on between different strains of cannabis in order to create and provide better therapeutic products. But for consumers, it's just become a shared vocabulary for understanding the spectrum of cannabis effects and thats OK for now.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/25/20 09:49 AM)


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26628268 - 04/25/20 11:52 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

I use to say the same shit before I went the distance. Hybrids dominate the industry so it's not easy to tell. What would one categorize cannabis as then? Stativa or indica? If you never found a strain that kept you on a couch or a strain that made you get off the couch than you haven't been around.


--------------------


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #26628292 - 04/26/20 12:02 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

If im looking for that energizing effect that can help reduce anxiety or stress and increase creativity and focus i mostly drink johnny walker black label but if im looking for a those full body effects such as increasing deep relaxation and reducing insomnia its jack daniels all the way.

Its all the fucking same weed is weed. :facepalm:


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Dety]
    #26628452 - 04/26/20 01:35 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Its all the fucking same weed is weed.

Agreed 100%

Trichome abundance is what matters.

"Good buds, stick together"


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Dety]
    #26628508 - 04/26/20 02:15 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Dety said:
If im looking for that energizing effect that can help reduce anxiety or stress and increase creativity and focus i mostly drink johnny walker black label but if im looking for a those full body effects such as increasing deep relaxation and reducing insomnia its jack daniels all the way.

Its all the fucking same weed is weed. :facepalm:





It's funny you say this because I actually believe different alcoholic drinks tend to produce different effects as well. If you're looking for a full body effect and deep relaxation, I suggest mead. For some reason mead gives me body effect I don't experience with any other alcoholic drink, I don't know if it's the honey.

However, I did used to have a friend who insisted that weed was weed and after listening to him I realized the differences between different strains were a lot less than I had thought and he was kind of right. I still think the differences are there, they just aren't nearly as pronounced or important as people seem to think.  The same is true for kratom in my opinion. People talk about how one strain does this and another strain does when they're really all pretty much the same in my experience, especially after you get a big tolerance. I mean, potency matters, everyone knows there is a difference between good weed and bad weed and good kratom and bad kratom but beyond that the differences just aren't that important. When I had no kratom tolerance I felt like I could discern some differences but after a while kratom was just kratom. People would rave about this particular strain and I'd try it and it'd be just like any other kratom I'd ever taken.  Although I do remember high doses of kratom from one vendor used to always give me eye wobbles so again, there are some differences but people love to exaggerate them. They take tiny differences and hype them up as though they were significant differences.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (04/26/20 02:25 AM)


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: valiant]
    #26629598 - 04/26/20 01:28 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

valiant said:
I use to say the same shit before I went the distance. Hybrids dominate the industry so it's not easy to tell. What would one categorize cannabis as then? Stativa or indica? If you never found a strain that kept you on a couch or a strain that made you get off the couch than you haven't been around.




I'm not sure I understand the question? Taxonomically cannabis is Cannabis sativa, what we call Indica is also Cannabis Sativa, possibly Cannabis Sativa subsp. Indica(not Cannabis Indica)...but also possibly Cannabis Sativa var. Indica.

I'm also not sure you understood my post.

I'll try to be more clear...neither the scientists this article refers to, nor the article itself(other than the title) are claiming that there are no differences in effect between different strains of cannabis...only that Indica and Sativa effects are not exclusive because they are not separate species and there psychotropic effects can overlap, and whether a plant is identified as Sativa or Indica is only tangentially related to its effects.

That isn't to say that some cannabis can't be stimulating while other cannabis can cause couch lock...no one here is claiming that is the case.

What's important is you have to remember that the Indica and Sativa monikers were never originally about medicinal properties...only appearance, and the differences in appearance are from epigenetic differences, not different genes, and resulted from growing under different conditions, in different environments for many generations.

It was only anecdotally that Indica and Sativa became associated with opposing medicinal qualities...it may not always be untrue, but its not always true either.

So now, in practice, we are using the words Indica and Sativa to describe opposite poles of a spectrum of effects...but their ORIGINAL usage does not always correlate with that spectrum. And this is possible because Indica and Sativa cannabis are not seperate species, they are genetically identical, their differences are epigentic in origin and do not necessarily extend to their psychotropic effects...sharing the same genetic foundation its no surprise that they can have overlapping effects, or a variety of effects within each "group", especially after being grown under the same conditions for so long and being cross bred so many times.

The point being, that doesn't mean that different strains of cannabis can't have different effects, only that trying to identify those effects by looking for historically Sativa/Indica heritage or physical properties will often result in inaccurate predictions.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/26/20 01:48 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26630003 - 04/26/20 04:06 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

scarabaeus said:
I don't know why I am injecting myself into this conversation other than to say hello :hi: to Musiclover -I  hope you are still kicking ass with your synth tones etc.

Indica vs. sativa? I am probably way out of the loop but I have always noticed a difference between the two. But I'm probs older than most of you knuckleheads (relax, I'm just joking). The concept of so many hybrids mixing the effects  of all, that none are expressed in their original psychoboom effects -well that kind of makes sense. But I don't smoke much so :takingnotes:




Thanks man, hope you've been doing good :cheers:

Actually just uploaded another recording today:


Terminal Passage - Voidream 4-23

And here is the previous one from 4/20:


Terminal Passage - Cannabliss 4-20

Been trying to use more different sounds in recordings, still a lot of synth/keyboards with various effects but have been trying to mic more sounds and focus on drum and bass tracks as well.

Here is one other recent recording that focuses more on the bass and drums, tried to make the bass and drum tracks as bass heavy as possible:


Terminal Passage - Blackhole Singularity 4-6


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #26630658 - 04/26/20 09:47 PM (1 month, 22 hours ago)

first off, they are not even called strains. A strain is a virus, a strand is a piece of thread or hair, a different variety of cannabis is called a Cultivar these days because it is a plant that was cultivated for a specific purpose usually to retain genetic traits of the specific phenotype you are working with.

Now, its not a marketing ploy at at... anyone who has grown cannabis and made hash can tell you there are some big differences in the two. First off, Sativa's originate from Africa and other places with strains like Durban Poison and Indica's come from places like Afghanistan where the name Kush actually originates. Now these plants have different flowering periods and also grow very different in appearance but for the most part the only thing differentiating them is the terpene profiles... that is what makes the different effects, they both contain THC just like the other and some contain CBD and other cannabinoids but THCV for example is only really found in Sativas. They also have different head sizes that are the best for making hash.

so why would the scientist say they are the same??? because we have cross bread things so much that you cant say for sure how a hybrid will effect you because they all have different terpene profiles and each type has some more often than the other...

this could go on for days but long story short... they are wrong


--------------------
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: SnowDaze]
    #26631385 - 04/27/20 07:06 AM (1 month, 13 hours ago)

A lot of good opinions in here to agree with.
my nose never lead me astray


--------------------
All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: natzyshroomer]
    #26631544 - 04/27/20 09:05 AM (1 month, 11 hours ago)

exactly, if you smell it and it connects with you. Your individual endocannabinoid system reacts different than others to the terpenes in the flower or hash which can usually tell you if you are going to enjoy it or not


--------------------
:gd_icon: If you get confused just listen to the music play :gd_icon:

:smugjerry: :feelswierman:

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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: SnowDaze]
    #26631824 - 04/27/20 11:54 AM (1 month, 8 hours ago)

cloning doesn't guarantee that the end product will always be the same, it only means they share the same genetics and have the potential to produce a similar product. It also makes sense that there will be degradation of the genetics after a while,  I believe that it has already been proven that you can only clone something a few times before mutations happen, but even without that happening I still say it varies plant to plant.  I've grown clones and each plant is definitely different in the way they produce and the end product and they are all in they same conditions.


--------------------
Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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OnlineSeriously_trippin
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: SnowDaze]
    #26632191 - 04/27/20 03:30 PM (1 month, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

SnowDaze said:
exactly, if you smell it and it connects with you. Your individual endocannabinoid system reacts different than others to the terpenes in the flower or hash which can usually tell you if you are going to enjoy it or not



:mindblown:


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
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& Big Worm Forever
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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26632345 - 04/27/20 04:59 PM (1 month, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

SnowDaze said:
exactly, if you smell it and it connects with you. Your individual endocannabinoid system reacts different than others to the terpenes in the flower or hash which can usually tell you if you are going to enjoy it or not



:mindblown:



I don't know about that, it helps but I've smoked weed that smells like pig shit,  literally and some super A5 that smelled like hay or cut straw grass but had an excellent head high that started out really energizing but then couch lock starts creeping in. Speaking of creeping,  I haven't had any good creeper weed lately, not since the brickweed went away, seeds also are disappearing from bags so homegrowers will have to order seed or try to keep clones but that's not always possible.


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Doc9151]
    #26632671 - 04/27/20 08:03 PM (1 month, 4 minutes ago)

no taking a cut does retain the same phenotype, popping a seed gets you a new one. Do you work in cannabis Doc?


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:gd_icon: If you get confused just listen to the music play :gd_icon:

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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Doc9151]
    #26632975 - 04/27/20 10:37 PM (30 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
cloning doesn't guarantee that the end product will always be the same, it only means they share the same genetics and have the potential to produce a similar product. It also makes sense that there will be degradation of the genetics after a while,  I believe that it has already been proven that you can only clone something a few times before mutations happen, but even without that happening I still say it varies plant to plant.  I've grown clones and each plant is definitely different in the way they produce and the end product and they are all in they same conditions.




Clones can change if the environment changes drastically, thats really it. Many of our supermarket fruits are sourced exclusively from clones.

Unless the environment changes drastically clones will produce the same cannibinoids as the parent plant, at the same ratio, as long as harvesting is done in the same manner.


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26633029 - 04/27/20 11:01 PM (30 days, 21 hours ago)

exactly, thats how you retain a phenotype and then if you breed it with itself it will retain those same genetics which is where you see things like BX2 and things like that... Georgia Pie is a Animal mints Bx9 x something im pretty sure... so they have taken it pretty far. The problem is that the scientists dont smoke and dont understand that everyone has a different endo system so they dont get that looking at it on paper isnt the same as feeling the subjective effects.


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:gd_icon: If you get confused just listen to the music play :gd_icon:

:smugjerry: :feelswierman:

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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: SnowDaze]
    #26634461 - 04/28/20 03:54 PM (30 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

SnowDaze said:
exactly, thats how you retain a phenotype and then if you breed it with itself it will retain those same genetics which is where you see things like BX2 and things like that... Georgia Pie is a Animal mints Bx9 x something im pretty sure... so they have taken it pretty far. The problem is that the scientists dont smoke and dont understand that everyone has a different endo system so they dont get that looking at it on paper isnt the same as feeling the subjective effects.




I don't think this is a fair assumption, there are a LOT of scientists who smoke.

The argument is that strain name means little for subjective effects given that growing parameters have a greater impact on psychoactive content rather than it's expressed phenotype.


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"I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie



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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420]
    #26634468 - 04/28/20 03:58 PM (30 days, 4 hours ago)

On a side note, holy shit musiclover420 I had no idea Terminal Passage is your channel!

That's been my go to for work music playlists these past 6 months. You have exquisite taste my friend.


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"I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie



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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #26634717 - 04/28/20 05:47 PM (30 days, 2 hours ago)

I grew for a while in the late 90s and early naughts back when you had to order seeds from abroad that were predominantly bred in holland and a little bit in canada. Cultivars were more distinct back then and we still argued over what indica and sativa meant.

C99 had just made a huge splash as short flowering plant with all the high of the long flowering sativas. Other short flowering supposed land race sativas were coming into breeders hands like durban poisin and high altitude equatorials like burmese (my fav) and nepalese. We argued endlessly over whether these were true sativas.

But it didnt matter, a market that had been stuck with bigbud beaster dro and seedy commercial weed was head over heals with the products and growers were getting more able to grow thanks to medi. Carbon filters became excellent and odor control was no longer a problem like it had been with ozone and other methods. Cuttings were becoming widely traded etc.

Good times. But at the end of the day this is a cash crop and yield/time/watts/price drive the game. The ease of obtaining cuttings and other factors like thc testing led to the dominance of the 8 week high thc hybrid cultivar. Sure some have blue berry, some have durban or kush but they all have same 8-9 week flower and pretty much look and smoke the same.

I would say only long flowering strains flowering for 12 weeks or longer are truely what we once knew as a sativa.

I bred my own seeds at one point and had such a 12.5 week strain. It smelled like bananas and could cut through a day spent smoking the 8-9 week strains and send you into orbit.

But 12 week strains cost 50% more in lights and time for similar yield. They also expose the grower to 50% risk of bugs, mold, disease or bust/jacking if not legal.  In reality a 12 week strain should cost 75% more than an 8 week strain and the market simply won't bear it.

Unless these scientist were studying weed grown privately that included long flowering land races this study is garbage, which I assume is the case.


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"You can't learn what you don't want to hear" - Weir/Barlow


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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #26635053 - 04/28/20 08:24 PM (29 days, 23 hours ago)

no, I don't work in cannabis but have been using it since the age of 8, been around it all my life.

Environmental changes can never be exactly the same  that is why I believe that there is so many fluctuations in the same clone, even in the same grow room there are differences in temperature, humidity, nutrients and more. Conditions can never be duplicated exactly and close only counts in horse shoes, handgrenades and hydrogen bombs.

this is my last grow, a small sample., by the way. if you grow your own do not take wild mushrooms in your grow room and change your clothes after handling wild mushrooms and going into the grow room or Spiderman he'll will breakout.  I learned that the hard way.


Edit: the 2liter coke bottle is literally touching the back of the buds to give size comparison.


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (04/28/20 08:29 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Doc9151]
    #26635082 - 04/28/20 08:33 PM (29 days, 23 hours ago)

I have 4 mystery seedlings going right now and it's interesting to see the obvious distinctions in shape/growth. 2 of them clearly look more indica and the other 2 have more of a sativa/hybrid look.

Assuming all 4 make it and are female I'm excited to compare the effects/taste, really hoping one of them is blue cheese or something else dank as they were all dispensary seeds in random bud.


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Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420]
    #26636280 - 04/29/20 10:38 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

There's a difference between the two on a macro level,  I have grown both,  sativa's are not as pretty as Indica dominant strains, they are scraggly compared to the nice dense indica strains with their large wide leafs and dark green color. Indica dominants are by far my favorite to grow indoors but sativa grown outside makes for beautiful plants.

It will be at least a year before I start Again so keeping my seed viable is my only concern,  but I have successfully sprouted 10 year old seed that was locked in a safe  so it shouldn't be a problem.

Not sure what you guys do for humidity levels but the plants in the above pic were grown in a humidity range of 30_50% to keep down the risk of powdery mildew and other things. High humidity is nice but not necessarily needed to get large dense bud, light. light and more light with good temperatures 70-80 no than 85 under the lights and regular water and feeding,  stressing the plants in the last 3wks will increase trichome productivity, no fertilizer the last month or it can affect bud flavor in my opinion. Natural ferts like horse, cow and chicken manure are my best friends when it comes to choosing ferts, no commercial garbage other than wormcastings.


--------------------
Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Offlinesmokescreen
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: HappySloth]
    #26641191 - 05/01/20 02:10 PM (27 days, 5 hours ago)

I love the equalizer analogy.  As a community in general, we cannabis users learned quite alot from the man-made cannabinoids.. There are a few I really miss.. like the original JWH-018, JWH-210 and MAM-2201.  There were also some pretty hard core ones like a mix called MAD HATTER in 2015.  I'm guessing DMT is about as intense as that mix... One hit blew all my "trips" out of the water... L, Shrooms, 5-meo-dipt, 2C-Tx, etc


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:ganja: "Let's get together and feel alright" :ganja:                  :cubie: :mushroom2::tripping:


Edited by smokescreen (05/01/20 02:18 PM)


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