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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625585 - 04/24/20 09:55 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Also here in wa.

Those large scale growers dont give a fuck about the quality, as long as it tests over 20% and they have a lot of it they are happy.

Most of the homegrown has disappeared, its simply a labor of love these days.

Its just so much more convenient for people to go to the store at the time of their choosing.

That and the prices have completely bottomed out, theres no money in it anymore.

Weed is worthless until you find someone that wants to buy it.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625620 - 04/24/20 10:10 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Try the KELSO KREEPER if you get a chance.

Decent quality

Good price

Very often its pesticide free


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26625630 - 04/24/20 10:12 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

that percentage crap is the biggest bullshit too.

the best shit ive ever had, real O.G. kush. anyone whos had real o.g. loves it and it doesnt test over 18%. fuck thc pertentages and all this hybrid overbred bs. right with you man.

i came across a porn ad and its the same as porn. it was great when we were kids but now its like meh, im so over it. just let me nut and go to sleep.


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625647 - 04/24/20 10:18 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

ill keep an eye for them but you know how these stupid rec shops run.
I buy freddys fuego. $100 for 14gr. overdried but always really good quality and it works.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625681 - 04/24/20 10:49 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Quote:

ElChapoEscobar said:
that percentage crap is the biggest bullshit too.

the best shit ive ever had, real O.G. kush. anyone whos had real o.g. loves it and it doesnt test over 18%. fuck thc pertentages and all this hybrid overbred bs. right with you man.

i came across a porn ad and its the same as porn. it was great when we were kids but now its like meh, im so over it. just let me nut and go to sleep.



I get that good sativa gets you just as high as indica if it's grown right and has good genetics.


How are thc percentages bullshit? When they send it to a lab and test it, it just doesn't mean anything?
Quote:

ElChapoEscobar said:
ill keep an eye for them but you know how these stupid rec shops run.
I buy freddys fuego. $100 for 14gr. overdried but always really good quality and it works.



Yeah I think those 80-100$ eighths are a total ripoff even if they technically have higher thc after a certain point you should just buy extract for that money. To be clear I'm the kind of person that doesn't give two turtle shits about strain names I like sticky, dense nugs with the kind of potent smell that makes people sneeze it's so overpowering, it always helps my stomach pain in particular more. In my experience those type of nugs are indica. I don't see that a lot in sativas but it's interesting hearing there's just as much potential from a grower.


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


Edited by Seriously_trippin (04/24/20 10:50 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26625705 - 04/24/20 11:15 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

ElChapoEscobar said:
that percentage crap is the biggest bullshit too.

the best shit ive ever had, real O.G. kush. anyone whos had real o.g. loves it and it doesnt test over 18%. fuck thc pertentages and all this hybrid overbred bs. right with you man.

i came across a porn ad and its the same as porn. it was great when we were kids but now its like meh, im so over it. just let me nut and go to sleep.



I get that good sativa gets you just as high as indica if it's grown right and has good genetics.


How are thc percentages bullshit? When they send it to a lab and test it, it just doesn't mean anything?




I think they mean the testing accuracy varies perhaps, around here at least it seems pretty suspect at times. Especially with extracts, I think part of the issue is they test big batches that vary and then give them all a single test result.

Some of the testing labs around here seem pretty shady. I've compared products from different brands that were nearly identical but one brand tested way higher and was always tested by a different lab.

I like having the tests to look at but definitely don't always trust them. Seeing the terpene content is sweet but I hope one day the tests become more thorough and accurate.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420]
    #26625711 - 04/24/20 11:25 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

That makes more sense then testing being total bullshit because most of the big spots in the LA county area go through a pretty well known testing facility and it's one of the reasons it gets so expensive. The place I go to doesn't do it and is much cheaper


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26625725 - 04/24/20 11:34 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

IME high THC doesnt mean it will taste good, in fact ive noted some of the lower packages >20% from the store tend to cost more because they taste better and have more abundant terpenoids.

Commercial grow ops have the option to test for terpenoids, but it costs more than just testing the cannabinoid levels.

On the other hand, ive heard shady things where labs are willing to increase your test results for a bribe.

Also often many rec grow ops will dump kief on bud they send to the lab.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


Edited by Buckomcdoogle (04/24/20 11:36 PM)


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OfflineElChapoEscobar
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26625893 - 04/25/20 01:27 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

yeah, i said it, most percentages are BS. and have you ever had a dense sticky indica nug that didnt do shit for you, or your IBS, or insomnia, or back pain? i have, and too many times to count. and when it comes to a 100% indica i will agree, to a point. it may alleviate symptoms.

RSO is a whole other conversation. i ingest a gram a day, sometimes more. speaking of which...

as for smoking flower. yeah its all gobbaldy-gook unless its something snoop dogg would smoke. even then its bs. itd have to be somethin b-real would smoke. no wait.

and extracts, people need to lay off. i use to dab every day. now i rarely do an its back to the good ol feeling it used to give. glad im not wasting half my day dabbin with homies lol


Edited by ElChapoEscobar (04/25/20 01:30 AM)


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: ElChapoEscobar]
    #26625942 - 04/25/20 02:10 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

RSO - quite simply the best edible on the market. Period.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #26625958 - 04/25/20 02:25 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

I don't know why I am injecting myself into this conversation other than to say hello :hi: to Musiclover -I  hope you are still kicking ass with your synth tones etc.

Indica vs. sativa? I am probably way out of the loop but I have always noticed a difference between the two. But I'm probs older than most of you knuckleheads (relax, I'm just joking). The concept of so many hybrids mixing the effects  of all, that none are expressed in their original psychoboom effects -well that kind of makes sense. But I don't smoke much so :takingnotes:


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26626039 - 04/25/20 03:21 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Has anyone done real double blind experiments with sativa vs indica? That would be the best way to prove/disprove the theory once and for all. I definitely think some weed has a more heavy body, couch lock effect while other weed cerebral. Whether those differences are actually a result of indica vs sativa seems testable in a double blind format.

I did a quick google search and found this:
Quote:


Dr. Russo: We would all prefer simple nostrums to explain complex systems, but this is futile and even potentially dangerous in the context of a psychoactive drug such as Cannabis. Once again, it is necessary to quantify the biochemical components of a given Can- nabis strain and correlate these with the observed ef- fects in real patients. Beyond the increasing number of CBD predominant strains in recent years, almost all Cannabis on the market has been from high- THC strains. The differences in observed effects in Cannabis are then due to their terpenoid content, which is rarely assayed, let alone reported to potential consumers. The sedation of the so-called indica strains is falsely attributed to CBD content when, in fact, CBD is stimulating in low and moderate doses! Rather, sedation in most common Cannabis strains is attributable to their myrcene content, a monoter- pene with a strongly sedative couch-lock effect that resembles a narcotic. In contrast, a high limonene content (common to citrus peels) will be uplifting on mood, while the presence of the relatively rare terpene in Cannabis, alpha-pinene, can effectively re- duce or eliminate the short-term memory impair- ment classically induced by THC.2,8
CCR: How do you think one could address the sativa/ indica dichotomy in a scientifically sound manner?
Dr. Russo: Since the taxonomists cannot agree, I would strongly encourage the scientific community, the press, and the public to abandon the sativa/indica nomencla- ture and rather insist that accurate biochemical assays on cannabinoid and terpenoid profiles be available for Cannabis in both the medical and recreational mar- kets. Scientific accuracy and the public health demand no less than this.





So it seems he is saying those differences exist but aren't necessarily a result of indica vs sativa differences.

I couldn't find any proper double blind experiments though. All I found was some small  scale experiments with only one type of weed and not enough people to really determine anything. The fact that some people can smoke some weed and get it wrong doesn't disprove the theory. However, if a statistically significant number of people could tell the difference between indica and sativa on a consistent bases (even if it was only a small minority  of people doing it without 100% accuracy) that would mean there is a difference.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26626083 - 04/25/20 03:59 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Friggin A Peyote Road! Science man... Science!


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26626266 - 04/25/20 07:16 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Bullshit. I've been using medical marijuana for 12 years since I was 14 one of the first in California of that age I've had A LOT of weed over the years and as nice as sativa can be, even the highest thc sativa can't take away certain muscle and stomach pains. Also indicas are always more shooting during ptsd attacks. Also several times people have tried to trick me and every single time I know whether it's a sativa by how it works medically. Maybe that's just me I don't know for sure if that's definitely a lot of experience specifically with medicating.




First off, what the author is saying and what the scientists are saying ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME THING, even the article itself doesn't reflect its own title.

Here's an excerpt from the article.

Quote:

The reason it can look and act so differently in the body from strain to strain is because the environment in which the plant is grown can change its flavor and effect profile while maintaining its genetic base.




Quote:

...act so differently in the body from strain to strain...and effect profile...




This is where the confusion comes in....they are not claiming there are no differences between different strains of cannabis.

Only that the differences we have historically noticed between "Sativa" and "Indica" are epigenetic in origin, and they aren't two separate species. They are sub-species at best and could just be different varieties.

But, strains we have identified as Indica or Sativa generally have very different geographical origins, and were separated some time ago. Which has given them plenty of time to develop more differences between each other than what you would generally ever see from two different sativa's or two indica's.

Honestly, we should have moved away from the Indica vs Sativa dichotomy a long time ago...as there are probably more than 3(Ruderalis) different varieties/sub-species.

I think classification by geographic origin, while not perfect due to cannabis being traded all over the world so a strain could have been discovered in what is not its true home, would have probably been the best system...you'd have North African Cannabis vs East Asian Cannabis vs Indian Cannabis vs Middle Eastern, etc, etc, etc. And make it clear that said classifications are more about cosmetics, flavor, bouquet, and throat feel...not medicinal...and make medicinal distinctions based on biochemical assays.

I mean, even among a single strain, if grown by seed you can get varying medicinal effects from plant to plant...medicinal distinctions should apply only to clones and it would be best if they didn't rely on anecdotal reports(but could be confirmed by).

So even though they are one species, and the line between Indica and Sativa is thinner and blurrier than what many people think...that doesn't mean every strain of cannabis provides the exact same effects, nobody is claiming that.(other than the authors misleading clickbait title)

As far as the consumer is concerned, for most intents and purposes, the Indica vs Sativa classification system has become the 2 opposite ends of a spectrum of cannabis effects...and is only tangentially related to origin, it's no longer important if they are 2 different species or not, especially since most everything you find now is a hybrid. Problem is, this spectrum is not best represented by a straight line...so as we better understand medicinal effects and how different compounds relate to them, we will need to expand our vocabulary in the future to better represent a spectrum that might more accurately be represented by a triangle or even a circle.

For breeders, growers, and distributors...it's a different story. The sativa/indica dichotomy is limiting, and they need to understand whats actually going on between different strains of cannabis in order to create and provide better therapeutic products. But for consumers, it's just become a shared vocabulary for understanding the spectrum of cannabis effects and thats OK for now.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/25/20 09:49 AM)


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Offlinevaliant
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26628268 - 04/25/20 11:52 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

I use to say the same shit before I went the distance. Hybrids dominate the industry so it's not easy to tell. What would one categorize cannabis as then? Stativa or indica? If you never found a strain that kept you on a couch or a strain that made you get off the couch than you haven't been around.


--------------------


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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #26628292 - 04/26/20 12:02 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

If im looking for that energizing effect that can help reduce anxiety or stress and increase creativity and focus i mostly drink johnny walker black label but if im looking for a those full body effects such as increasing deep relaxation and reducing insomnia its jack daniels all the way.

Its all the fucking same weed is weed. :facepalm:


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Dety]
    #26628452 - 04/26/20 01:35 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Its all the fucking same weed is weed.

Agreed 100%

Trichome abundance is what matters.

"Good buds, stick together"


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.” - Zappa

"It's called rational thinking" - Zappa

"Logic leads to nihilism..."

Love, in a lot of ways is like good drugs, when you get good drugs its very obvious you got good drugs.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: Dety]
    #26628508 - 04/26/20 02:15 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Dety said:
If im looking for that energizing effect that can help reduce anxiety or stress and increase creativity and focus i mostly drink johnny walker black label but if im looking for a those full body effects such as increasing deep relaxation and reducing insomnia its jack daniels all the way.

Its all the fucking same weed is weed. :facepalm:





It's funny you say this because I actually believe different alcoholic drinks tend to produce different effects as well. If you're looking for a full body effect and deep relaxation, I suggest mead. For some reason mead gives me body effect I don't experience with any other alcoholic drink, I don't know if it's the honey.

However, I did used to have a friend who insisted that weed was weed and after listening to him I realized the differences between different strains were a lot less than I had thought and he was kind of right. I still think the differences are there, they just aren't nearly as pronounced or important as people seem to think.  The same is true for kratom in my opinion. People talk about how one strain does this and another strain does when they're really all pretty much the same in my experience, especially after you get a big tolerance. I mean, potency matters, everyone knows there is a difference between good weed and bad weed and good kratom and bad kratom but beyond that the differences just aren't that important. When I had no kratom tolerance I felt like I could discern some differences but after a while kratom was just kratom. People would rave about this particular strain and I'd try it and it'd be just like any other kratom I'd ever taken.  Although I do remember high doses of kratom from one vendor used to always give me eye wobbles so again, there are some differences but people love to exaggerate them. They take tiny differences and hype them up as though they were significant differences.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (04/26/20 02:25 AM)


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: valiant]
    #26629598 - 04/26/20 01:28 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

valiant said:
I use to say the same shit before I went the distance. Hybrids dominate the industry so it's not easy to tell. What would one categorize cannabis as then? Stativa or indica? If you never found a strain that kept you on a couch or a strain that made you get off the couch than you haven't been around.




I'm not sure I understand the question? Taxonomically cannabis is Cannabis sativa, what we call Indica is also Cannabis Sativa, possibly Cannabis Sativa subsp. Indica(not Cannabis Indica)...but also possibly Cannabis Sativa var. Indica.

I'm also not sure you understood my post.

I'll try to be more clear...neither the scientists this article refers to, nor the article itself(other than the title) are claiming that there are no differences in effect between different strains of cannabis...only that Indica and Sativa effects are not exclusive because they are not separate species and there psychotropic effects can overlap, and whether a plant is identified as Sativa or Indica is only tangentially related to its effects.

That isn't to say that some cannabis can't be stimulating while other cannabis can cause couch lock...no one here is claiming that is the case.

What's important is you have to remember that the Indica and Sativa monikers were never originally about medicinal properties...only appearance, and the differences in appearance are from epigenetic differences, not different genes, and resulted from growing under different conditions, in different environments for many generations.

It was only anecdotally that Indica and Sativa became associated with opposing medicinal qualities...it may not always be untrue, but its not always true either.

So now, in practice, we are using the words Indica and Sativa to describe opposite poles of a spectrum of effects...but their ORIGINAL usage does not always correlate with that spectrum. And this is possible because Indica and Sativa cannabis are not seperate species, they are genetically identical, their differences are epigentic in origin and do not necessarily extend to their psychotropic effects...sharing the same genetic foundation its no surprise that they can have overlapping effects, or a variety of effects within each "group", especially after being grown under the same conditions for so long and being cross bred so many times.

The point being, that doesn't mean that different strains of cannabis can't have different effects, only that trying to identify those effects by looking for historically Sativa/Indica heritage or physical properties will often result in inaccurate predictions.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/26/20 01:48 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26630003 - 04/26/20 04:06 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

scarabaeus said:
I don't know why I am injecting myself into this conversation other than to say hello :hi: to Musiclover -I  hope you are still kicking ass with your synth tones etc.

Indica vs. sativa? I am probably way out of the loop but I have always noticed a difference between the two. But I'm probs older than most of you knuckleheads (relax, I'm just joking). The concept of so many hybrids mixing the effects  of all, that none are expressed in their original psychoboom effects -well that kind of makes sense. But I don't smoke much so :takingnotes:




Thanks man, hope you've been doing good :cheers:

Actually just uploaded another recording today:


Terminal Passage - Voidream 4-23

And here is the previous one from 4/20:


Terminal Passage - Cannabliss 4-20

Been trying to use more different sounds in recordings, still a lot of synth/keyboards with various effects but have been trying to mic more sounds and focus on drum and bass tracks as well.

Here is one other recent recording that focuses more on the bass and drums, tried to make the bass and drum tracks as bass heavy as possible:


Terminal Passage - Blackhole Singularity 4-6


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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