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Oldnameforgotten
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Registered: 10/19/19
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Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities 3
#26615541 - 04/20/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wonder if the reason we have two significantly different sides of debate in most countries (for example liberals and conservatives) is due to a possible psychological phenomenon where you can only entirely grasp one ideology. If you attempt to grasp a point of the opposing ideology and manage to successfully grab hold... It flips you entirely into the other frame of consciousness.
So imagine a coin that you stand on top of which has a single hinge running through it's center. Peak over the edge too much and the coin will flip putting you on the other side.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
#26615638 - 04/20/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Interesting topic. Personally I see good in both sides of the debate you mention, and bad. I think people are choosing the lesser of evils and there's a mental block that forces them to believe one is good an the other is bad for simplicity. Even in the case where there are two evils, if a person believes they must make a compromise they will generally choose the smallest one.
In a practical sense, at least in Western democracies what happens is the better parts of both are used rather than one extreme or the other. But when a person leans left or right the tendency is to lean hard, not because the extreme is desirable but because it takes that much to move the metric an inch.
Just some ideas to contribute to the thread, looking forward to seeing where this goes.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: Rahz]
#26617336 - 04/21/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Re: OfflineOldnameforgotten
There are multiple reasons why folks become attached to ideologies or beliefs. In fact once one is an adult, it takes a lot of effort to free one self from them.
Partly it is the fault of both the school system, religion, and parenting. These 3 systems all divide the world and children into good or bad or similar polarities. They do this for control, convenience, & because they themselves have already been conditioned.
After 18 years of this shit most have become limited in their ability to think critically or creatively. Many never wake up. Many only after travel to different countries, while still young, and some only after psychedelics, or other transformative experience.
It is another matter to explain, the human propensity to believe all sorts of things. A partial explanation of this aspect may be found here: https://skepticalinquirer.org/1995/05/the-belief-engine/
Specifically as regards your question - in the case of both politics and religion the ideologies are purposely designed or crafted to invalidate ( & often demonize) the other(s), in order to gain & keep followers. If one hasn't studied either some semantics, the art of debate, rhetoric, hypnosis, logic, sales, or persuasion or similar subject one is likely vulnerable to such tactics.
Edited by laughingdog (04/21/20 10:29 AM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: laughingdog]
#26617358 - 04/21/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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also of interest as regards belief and attachment to ideas:
https://www.kumaremovie.com/
"Kumaré is a feature documentary film about the time filmmaker Vikram Gandhi impersonated a fake guru and built a following of real people. Winner of the Audience Award for Best Documentary at SXSW 2011, Kumaré opened in theaters June 20, 2012, and is now available on demand via iTunes, Amazon Instant video and most cable providers. "
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CountHTML
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: laughingdog] 1
#26631943 - 04/27/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Human beings are basically walking belief-engines. The deepest of our beliefs seem to serve an emotional self-regulatory role and being “wrong” puts us into crisis mode. This is why people grasp to their beliefs as if it were life or death.
We all have this built into us, and it is why checking oneself is a huge asset and a skill. I suspect on some level that political inclination is rooted in temperament and even in things like disgust sensitivity. In turn, I think the division and hostility gets fed by the coin flipping you describe.
Human disagreement has been with us since the beginning and will remain with us to the end. The question is whether we utilize the diversity in the form of conversation, or draw swords. The latter option, obviously, is far inferior than the first one.
Feeding into tribalism is a dangerous game.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: CountHTML] 2
#26632040 - 04/27/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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People bind themselves into political teams that share moral narratives. Once they accept a particular narrative, they become blind to alternative moral worlds.
Jonathan Haidt (The Righteous Mind)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#26632119 - 04/27/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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eat something yummy, dance, maybe get laid, have a place to sleep - lots of reasons to conform, but plenty of opportunity to set one's own limits of conformance, and still get food fun and security.
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: redgreenvines]
#26635289 - 04/28/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would think there are small scale beliefs, like choosing what to eat for lunch and why it’s the move, and large scale beliefs, like political stance or any other non-immediate stance. Half the time the game isn’t even known about which indicates how trivial a large scale belief is or at the very least what does it necessarily amount to.
People like clubs I guess, picking teams and dramatizing winning and losing. If I eat fish every morning I hope there’s a breakfast fish club so I can be apart of it and oppose non fish eating breakfast clubs.
I suppose it is a kind of tribalism. We must like it. Although a lot of modern day tribalism amounts to nothing at best often unnecessary negativity. But why simplify, not when the crazy ass Democrats are bringing the country down to its knees.
On the other hand I would think there are relevant “divide and conquer” mobilizations. Economically or for good sport whatever that happens to be. The thing is that not everyone agrees on what qualifies as good sport and relevant and what doesn’t. So it’s either a mere judgement of somebody taking it a different way like popularizing politics or whatever or there is a stronger reason to differ. For example, the KKK club when you are black might be something to question.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26635301 - 04/28/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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sometimes I want to enjoy seeing a crowd having fun, but that may be a far off thing.
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: redgreenvines]
#26635319 - 04/28/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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At least up to the point before they start spilling blood. Although some may get off on that.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26636019 - 04/29/20 04:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm thinking about street food vendors and families eating and laughing, and maybe a carousel
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: Coin flipping consciousness creates combative personalities [Re: redgreenvines]
#26636365 - 04/29/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh that’s cool
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