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OfflineInglorion
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all pf jars contaminated at innoc points
    #26616193 - 04/20/20 09:53 PM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Newbie here, followed all the directions as well as I could on my first try with pf tek, after 2 weeks I have dark orange spots at all innoc points with small dark purple spots on the surrounding white parts.
Trying to figure out where I went wrong, I used a SAB box and flame sterilized my syringe but maybe it was a bad syringe. another possibility is that maybe my tin foil wasn’t on tight enough during the 2 hours i boiled the jars to sterilize them and some moisture got through the dry verm barrier. I also had no tape over the innoc holes because I heard it wasn’t needed with the verm barrier but maybe I’ll try it next time. I hope that wouldn’t have a negative effect on FAE though. Trying not to get impatient and discouraged so I can learn this beautiful hobby and deepen my relationship with my fungal friends. Thanks for this great forum I have already been learning a lot from reading on here but want a successful flush so badly.


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: Inglorion]
    #26616284 - 04/20/20 10:28 PM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Hmmm definitely looks like it came from the inoculation points.

You flame sterilized between each jar you said. I've never boiled
jars to sterilize although I've heard it can work. Spores aren't
sterile by nature so it's a dice roll on contamination. My advice
would be to buy a pressure cooker at Walmart, get another syringe
from a trusted sponsor here at the forum, and try again.

I also suggest learning about working with agar. It allows you
to germinate spores and identify healthy mycelium which can then
be transferred to more agar until it's clean from contamination.
Agar can then be used to make liquid inoculant or just tossed in
grains like oats and rye berries. Check out Everything you need to know page too 👇
Good luck!!


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: rumfor69] * 1
    #26616758 - 04/21/20 05:42 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Could also be an issue with the syringe.


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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned]
    #26616766 - 04/21/20 05:59 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

could be the syringe. depends on where you got it from

did you steam the jars? or do you literally mean boiled when you say that? i don't know that boiling gets hot enough to properly sterilize jars. how long did you steam/boil them for? that could be another factor


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: hazyhorse]
    #26616790 - 04/21/20 06:28 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

PF tek calls for boiling


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OfflineInglorion
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned] * 1
    #26617921 - 04/21/20 04:10 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

By “boiled” I meant i steamed the jars in a pot with a lid and an inch or two of boiling water in the bottom, I had the lids covered in tin foil but some condensation might have snuck in. I ordered the syringe from a seller with good reviews but it seems like maybe it was bad. I have two other syringes from the same vendor do you think trying one of those would be a waste of time since they might be contaminated too? I tried ordering from one of the only sponsors that ships from my country but they never showed up, were supposed to be here weeks ago but I think the covid situation is delaying the mail


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned]
    #26617942 - 04/21/20 04:21 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
PF tek calls for boiling




No actually it doesn’t. In fact Rogerrabbit goes out of his way to say not to let the jars touch the boiling water. He used jar lids to get his BRF jars above the water so that the boiling water wouldn’t touch the actual jars. I did something different with my first grow, I used metal steamers. But to say that you’re boiling your jars is inaccurate. It’s more like you’re steaming them, only instead of two or three minutes like you would with a vegetable, I did it for an hour and a half or two hours, I forget.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26617964 - 04/21/20 04:26 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

I haven’t done PF tek in a few years now, but my jars were always sitting in water. As long as it doesn’t boil into the jars, who cares?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned]
    #26618050 - 04/21/20 05:12 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Could also be an issue with the syringe.




Im thinking its the syringe/spores. OP's cakes dont look right thou. Too compacted, likely too wet.


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OfflineInglorion
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26618105 - 04/21/20 05:35 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Oh ya I definitely had them too compacted, lots of things to improve on next time. I used jar lids to keep the jars above the boiling water but still can’t guarantee no steam got in under the tin foil. I was gonna try again tomorrow but I guess I should probably wait and hope that a syringe from a sponser gets here eventually even though I’m afraid it got lost in the mail. Thanks for all your advice guys


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: Inglorion]
    #26618107 - 04/21/20 05:36 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Id recommend getting a Dim Sum steamer rack or a tamale steamer pot. That way, u dont have to worry about your jars getting boiling water inside them.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned] * 1
    #26618146 - 04/21/20 05:56 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Id recommend getting a Dim Sum steamer rack or a tamale steamer pot. That way, u dont have to worry about your jars getting boiling water inside them.




If I remember right, in my thread, it was you who recommended this one to me, which I highly recommend. I bought two of them, and of the 24 jars I inoculated, zero had any contamination. I have no way of proving it, because I'm still quite the n00b, but I am quite sure that RogerRabbit and you guys were right. Keep the jars out of the water. In fact, I think he even mentioned something about keeping the jars enough above the water that the "rolling" boil is below the jars, not just the surface of the still water. But that I can't swear to. Suffice it to say that I did as you guys and RR suggested, and kept the jars high enough above the water that the jars were only steamed.

Quote:

poisoned said:
I haven’t done PF tek in a few years now, but my jars were always sitting in water. As long as it doesn’t boil into the jars, who cares?




I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground, so I can't refute this definitively with my knowledge, lol or lack thereof, except to say that you are the first person I have met or whose materials I read to say this. If you are right, then both RogerRabbit and everyone in my own grow thread are wrong. Maybe its true for all I know. Maybe you are right. But until I see something akin to proof, I am sticking with keeping the jars at least an inch or two above the water.

Easy to do, by the way, with these steamers. As I said, I think it was Logical Chaos who recommended this steamer [here] to me in my thread. I purchased two of them so I could use two big stock pots and steamers to sterilize all 24 jars. Worked like a charm. Oh, and as an interesting side note, when I first did the jars, I was worried that in the two hours simmering all that water at a very low boil, I would lose all my water and have to add some from the tap. Never happened! When I was done I had a ton of water left. Probably because this is a somewhat high steamer, and there was plenty of water to last 2 hours at a slow boil.

So you really have to ask yourself, why take the chance, right? I mean if there is no danger of all the water boiling off, and in the absence of substantiation for your assertion that water hitting the jars is all right, why not err on the side of the experts on this one?

Unless, as I said, you are one of the experts, and moreover, if you are right and everyone else I am referencing is wrong. :mushroom2:



Edited by LSA Woodrose (04/21/20 06:18 PM)


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26618233 - 04/21/20 06:40 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

I just checked the RR video on BRF cakes. He recommends keeping them above the water, but the reason given is to prevent water from splashing into the jars. So, as long as you make sure that doesn't happen, they can definitely touch the water.


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Edited by poisoned (04/21/20 06:40 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26618241 - 04/21/20 06:44 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Yup. You got it! Very important to keep boiling water from splashing into the jars, which ruin the water content of the jars itself. Even with foil covering this can happen if the jars are too close to the boiling water.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26618243 - 04/21/20 06:45 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

I already got it in my first comment, lol. Everybody else is arguing that the bottoms absolutely have to be 1-2" above the water level.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned]
    #26618249 - 04/21/20 06:48 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Its recommended yes. Double boiling is the way to go. The jars dont need direct contact with the boiling water, as u may already know :wink:


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: poisoned]
    #26618383 - 04/21/20 08:05 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
I already got it in my first comment, lol. Everybody else is arguing that the bottoms absolutely have to be 1-2" above the water level.




With all due respect, I think we're all agreeing that the jars need to be out of the water, except for you. So "everybody" isn't arguing. Also, I wasn't attempting to say they needed an absolute distance of 2" above the rolling, boiling water, only that's what I used. I don't know the empirical reason, if there is one, for why RogerRabbit and everyone else I have ever seen on the Internet says the the jars need to be above the water. Maybe its as Logical Chaos says, that the boiling water coming into contact with the bottom of the substrate jars could screw with the water balance in the jars themselves? Maybe 212 degrees F is just a little too much somehow for the substrate mixture? Maybe its as Inglorion suggested in the OP that water got through the tin foil cover, passed the protective verm layer, and when it cooled it became a pathway for contaminants?

Who knows? I certainly don't. And when I said several times that you may be right and I may be wrong, since I am as far from an expert as there is in this forum, I'm not sure how you conflate that with arguing.

The only thing I know is that I followed ALL directions meticulously and am doing very well with my first grow. The OP is having a mold problem. Maybe it truly is coincidence, and maybe he got some bad spores in his MS Syringe? I have no idea. But he did say he boiled the jars. If you are incorrect, and I'm not saying you are, then that could be the explanation for why his jars became so contaminated?

On a side note, I would love to know what site-sponsor he bought the syringes from. Though I know we aren't allowed to post that, I am curious, so Inglorion, feel free to PM me that info, and I will tell you the site sponsor I ordered from, a site I highly recommend. They actually give a free syringe of MS when you mention Shroomery.org in your order. So I basically got two for one.


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OfflineInglorion
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26618389 - 04/21/20 08:11 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

The syringe I used for these contaminated jars wasn’t from a site sponsor, I ordered syringes from a site sponsor but they got lost/delayed in the mail so I got impatient and used a syringe that I had got from a different source instead. The non-sponsor vendor who’s syringe I used had good reviews but it’s possible it was contaminated. I’m still in communication with the sponsored vendor about trying to get my order.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: Inglorion]
    #26618403 - 04/21/20 08:17 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Inglorion said:
The syringe I used for these contaminated jars wasn’t from a site sponsor, I ordered syringes from a site sponsor but they got lost/delayed in the mail so I got impatient and used a syringe that I had got from a different source instead. The non-sponsor vendor who’s syringe I used had good reviews but it’s possible it was contaminated. I’m still in communication with the sponsored vendor about trying to get my order.




Okay got it.

Check your PM's. I sent you the name of the site sponsor I used. I highly recommend them.


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Re: all pf jars contaminated at innoc points [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26618414 - 04/21/20 08:25 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

your syringe was contaminated , as long as the water doesn't go more then halfway up the bottom row of jars it's fine to have some in the water just make sure when it starts to boil you lower the heat to a slow rolling boil, the only reason to keep them out of the water is to prevent water getting in your jars


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