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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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As much as I love to jest, I can’t carry on like this without first asking everyone to look up solipsism!
Btw. I propose Thanatos and Asante settle their differences not by debate, but by becoming heated lovers...followed by marriage and kids and 2 puppies.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/21/20 07:10 AM)
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
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Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: As much as I love to jest, I can’t carry on like this without first asking everyone to look up solipsism! ...
Did so, but it is almost bed time and too many words so hit up the image search for helpful memes

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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Tantrika]
#26616973 - 04/21/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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tho Wikipedia did draw a comparison with Advaita Vedanta, which was the focus of some of my upper-level course work in my religious studies major
so that made reading a bit more comprehensible
Quote:
Advaita Vedanta
Advaita is one of the six most known Hindu philosophical systems and literally means "non-duality". Its first great consolidator was Adi Shankaracharya, who continued the work of some of the Upanishadic teachers, and that of his teacher's teacher Gaudapada. By using various arguments, such as the analysis of the three states of experience—wakefulness, dream, and deep sleep, he established the singular reality of Brahman, in which Brahman, the universe and the Atman or the Self, were one and the same.
One who sees everything as nothing but the Self, and the Self in everything one sees, such a seer withdraws from nothing. For the enlightened, all that exists is nothing but the Self, so how could any suffering or delusion continue for those who know this oneness? — Ishopanishad: sloka 6, 7
The concept of the Self in the philosophy of Advaita could be interpreted as solipsism. However, the transhuman, theological implications of the Self in Advaita protect it from true solipsism as found in the west. Similarly, the Vedantic text Yogavasistha, escapes charge of solipsism because the real "I" is thought to be nothing but the absolute whole looked at through a particular unique point of interest.[22]
Advaita is also thought to strongly diverge from solipsism in that, the former is a system of exploration of one's mind in order to finally understand the nature of the self and attain complete knowledge. The unity of existence is said to be directly experienced and understood at the end as a part of complete knowledge. On the other hand, solipsism posits the non-existence of the external world right at the beginning, and says that no further inquiry is possible.[citation needed]

Shankaracharya
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Tantrika] 2
#26617008 - 04/21/20 07:45 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yep, the solipsists stop in their search when they reach the first impass - and like koan they cannot Digest - they get sick and wither .
The rest of us keep going 
Man 1 - isn’t solipsism as far as we can go and be sure?
Man 2- who wants to know?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/21/20 07:51 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
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This is why I brought Advaita Vedanta into Thanatos10's solipsism dilemma.
He wanted nothing of it
No nothing uplifting exists and the only reasonable option is suicide 
All Is One - Thou Art That
Is thoroughly delightful, but if you're disenchanted, yes its a nightmare.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,657
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Asante]
#26617021 - 04/21/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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It’s cool, I got stuck in the trap of solipsism for years.
Then It dawned over and over in various instances that the self which was stuck , was also subject to Annata, Annica, and Dukkha.
And it Had no intrinsically existing nature of its own.
Hard to grasp, the intellect alone cannot comprehend it. hence why simply reading of spiritual traditions and their doctrines and disciplines does not bring the same thing as living and practicing them in a way the elucidates their teachings directly.
Misunderstood, the highest teachings of Buddhism can be easily misconstrued for solipsism, or more particularly its implications and human response to such a thing. Hence why guidance from a trusted brother on the path is often usually stressed.
Dzogchen, Abdhidhamma, Advaita Vedanta, and so many other traditions and schools point towards the great perfection. Bless them.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/21/20 08:11 AM)
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Yep, the solipsists stop in their search when they reach the first impass - and like koan they cannot Digest - they get sick and wither .
The rest of us keep going 
Man 1 - isn’t solipsism as far as we can go and be sure?
Man 2- who wants to know?

This is a misunderstanding of what solipsism is. The thing is that with solipsism there is no “moving on” in a logical sense, you just have to believe in one or the other.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Asante]
#26617086 - 04/21/20 08:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: This is why I brought Advaita Vedanta into Thanatos10's solipsism dilemma.
He wanted nothing of it
No nothing uplifting exists and the only reasonable option is suicide 
All Is One - Thou Art That
Is thoroughly delightful, but if you're disenchanted, yes its a nightmare.
All is not one and one thing you don’t understand is that the doctrines you guys talk about are also in doubt because they too could just be mental projections.
I don’t think people grasp the issue of solipsism
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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I know it quite well. Just some things are going over your head. Have you read the classics in philosophy that deal with it? Or are you more of a web guy? I can recommend some to you, I’ll pm you some later.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/21/20 08:43 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Asante said: This is why I brought Advaita Vedanta into Thanatos10's solipsism dilemma.
He wanted nothing of it
No nothing uplifting exists and the only reasonable option is suicide 
All Is One - Thou Art That
Is thoroughly delightful, but if you're disenchanted, yes its a nightmare.
All is not one and one thing you don’t understand is that the doctrines you guys talk about are also in doubt because they too could just be mental projections.
I don’t think people grasp the issue of solipsism
How can you believe in solipsism, that all others are extensions of your mind, and not believe that all things are one. You just have cabin fever dude.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Asante] 2
#26617164 - 04/21/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: How can you believe in solipsism, that all others are extensions of your mind, and not believe that all things are one.
Stop seeing things differently Asante!!! How dare you!
God, it's like you just don't understand or something!!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Thanatos10
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Asante]
#26617250 - 04/21/20 09:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Asante said: This is why I brought Advaita Vedanta into Thanatos10's solipsism dilemma.
He wanted nothing of it
No nothing uplifting exists and the only reasonable option is suicide 
All Is One - Thou Art That
Is thoroughly delightful, but if you're disenchanted, yes its a nightmare.
All is not one and one thing you don’t understand is that the doctrines you guys talk about are also in doubt because they too could just be mental projections.
I don’t think people grasp the issue of solipsism
How can you believe in solipsism, that all others are extensions of your mind, and not believe that all things are one. You just have cabin fever dude.
Because they aren’t the same thing. Also no philosophy has been able to get over it without “magical thinking”.
Also in response to the OP, you have to be some kind of fool to think a crisis would unit humanity. History shows how that turns to backfire. Humans only unit against each other and this virus is proof of that.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Envix]
#26617525 - 04/21/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Envix said: but can you blow away COVID 19 with the wind of god?
That guy is fucking evil incarnate.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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That’s the kind of guy you don’t want to trip with
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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But.. but.. I really want PTSD after my trip!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
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Just saw that guy on Last Week Tonight, proves the foolishness of humans
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Asante said: This is why I brought Advaita Vedanta into Thanatos10's solipsism dilemma.
He wanted nothing of it
No nothing uplifting exists and the only reasonable option is suicide 
All Is One - Thou Art That
Is thoroughly delightful, but if you're disenchanted, yes its a nightmare.
All is not one and one thing you don’t understand is that the doctrines you guys talk about are also in doubt because they too could just be mental projections.
I don’t think people grasp the issue of solipsism
In doubt to people who believe in solipsism
No one (else) here is seeking to pit philisophical traditions against each other and solipsism hits a wall in communication because it seeks to dictate that other people's experiences either don't exist; or that they are the only thing that does exist but typically the person promoting solipsism isn't making the argument that they themselves are the unverifiable reality because they are taking themselves as the authority that can verify reality
but when someone does not believe in or practice solipsism, it does not actually impact them to be told that they and their beliefs cannot be verified to exist
Much more interesting than solipsism, but arguably acting in the same way Nagarajuna from Buddhist traditions was a hugely important figure who did not really posit a positive philosophy, and instead went around using Buddhist philosophy of impermanence and dependent arising to argue that no philisophical tradition could be correct
Quote:
Utilizing the Buddha's theory of "dependent arising" (pratitya-samutpada), Nagarjuna demonstrated the futility of [...] metaphysical speculations. His method of dealing with such metaphysics is referred to as "middle way" (madhyama pratipad). It is the middle way that avoided the substantialism of the Sarvastivadins as well as the nominalism of the Sautrantikas.[14]
But this branch of Buddhism is also a step away from solipsism on the basis of existent things while they have presence
Quote:
In the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā, "[A]ll experienced phenomena are empty (sunya). This did not mean that they are not experienced and, therefore, non-existent; only that they are devoid of a permanent and eternal substance (svabhava) because, like a dream, they are mere projections of human consciousness. Since these imaginary fictions are experienced, they are not mere names (prajnapti)."[14]
His most profound work is known as the Mūlamadhyamaka-kārikā or the MMK to Buddhist scholars trying to refer to it in conversation
tho if this figure does not interest you in particular he did more or less start the Mahayana Buddhism movement that would later sweep into East Asia and become most well-defined or recognized by Zen but another branch of philisophical consideration was brought up in the Yogacara school of Buddhism which posits a position of "Mind Only"
Quote:
One of the main features of Yogācāra philosophy is the concept of vijñapti-mātra. According to Lambert Schmithausen, the earliest surviving appearance of this term is in chapter 8 of the Saṅdhinirmocana Sūtra, which unfortunately, has only survived in Tibetan and Chinese translations that differ in syntax and meaning.[13] The passage is depicted as a response by the Buddha to a question which asks "whether the images or replicas (*pratibimba) which are the object (*gocara) of meditative concentration (*samadhi), are different/separate (*bhinna) from the contemplating mind (*citta) or not." The Buddha says they are not different, "Because these images are vijñapti-mātra." The text goes on to affirm that the same is true for objects of ordinary perception.[14]
Regarding existing Sanskrit sources, the term appears in the first verse of Vasubandhu's Vimśatikā, which is a locus classicus of the idea, it states:[15]
vijñaptimātram evaitad asad arthāvabhāsanāt yathā taimirikasyāsat keśa candrādi darśanam This [world] is vijñaptimātra, since it manifests itself as an unreal object (artha), Just like the case of those with cataracts seeing unreal hairs in the moon and the like."
According to Mark Siderits, what Vasubandhu means here is that we are only ever aware of mental images or impressions which manifest themselves as external objects, but "there is actually no such thing outside the mind."[15]
The term also appears in Asaṅga's classic Yogācāra work, the Mahāyānasaṃgraha (no Sanskrit original, trans. from Tibetan):
These representations (vijñapti) are mere representations (vijñapti-mātra), because there is no [corresponding] thing/object (artha)...Just as in a dream there appear, even without a thing/object (artha), just in the mind alone, forms/images of all kinds of things/objects like visibles, sounds, smells, tastes, tangibles, houses, forests, land, and mountains, and yet there are no [such] things/objects at all in that [place]. MSg II.6[16]
The term is sometimes used as a synonym with citta-mātra (mere citta), which is also used a name for the school that suggests Idealism.[4][17] Schmithausen writes that the first appearance of this term is in the Pratyupanna samadhi sutra, which states:
This (or: whatever belongs to this) triple world (*traidhātuka) is nothing but mind (or thought: *cittamatra). Why? Because however I imagine things, that is how they appear.[18]
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: I made a wish. [Re: Tantrika]
#26618386 - 04/21/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I knew I liked you. Namaste ... (and I don’t use that word/ ). your comprehension of dharma, as shown by your ability to compose an argument that holds to my traditions scrutiny- is very refreshing.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/21/20 06:13 PM)
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