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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
Male

Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted]
    #26614641 - 04/20/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
we have the capacity to help more people than just those with genetic problems. you're basically saying we should not save as many lives as we could. some people change after major health events. it's worth trying. sometimes there are not enough resources for everyone, but when there are, I consider it unethical not to use them. you can sit there and judge smokers and drinkers if you want. not my job.




I was saying that kovak's view flew against the medical, and extrapolated on that line of thinking.  You only prove my point by railing against it.

I don't care if people want to overeat and smoke.  I don't agree when we make it a social burden by creating institutions that spread the cost of their poor decisions to everyone.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams] * 3
    #26614651 - 04/20/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So it sounds like you would prefer a universal healthcare system where there are fewer resources to go around and those who make poor decisions are more frequently excluded from sharing those resources.


To an extent, I agree. Such a system would hopefully motivate people to be more proactive about preventative health behaviors.


I meet drinkers, smokers, and junkies who care about their health all the time, they just have a hard time stopping.


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614677 - 04/20/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
In the real world I see a very small proportion of obese people involved in activities that require energy expenditure (maybe 5%, yet by population they are 50-66%).




It really takes a tremendous amount of physical exertion to expend all the excess food energy from serious overeating. Not happening for most people. The body is quite efficient at conserving energy. If you're a bike courier or tree planter or pro athlete and your whole day consists of exercising hard, then you can pack away quite a bit of food without really gaining weight.


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Offlinegopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire
I'm a teapot


Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614685 - 04/20/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

im not saying fat people dont eat too much, they do, im just saying the advice the doctors (sometimes overweight doctors even) dosnt work, some of these people listen to the advice, they start eating heart healthy grains, dosnt the pyramid allow you 10 fucking servings or something? they try to eat less at each sitting, but they try to eat 6 small meals a day cause they heard thats healthy, they are constantly spiking thier insulin, insulin by itself can make you fat, people who inject insulin into the same site all the time develop a fatty spot where they inject it, then with the constant small meals they get ghrelin telling them they are constantly supposed to eat all day, eventually they are going to stray off their 200 calorie meal and pig out, its not a matter of if, but when

moving more is great for health, and im really bad at it, I laydown in bed on my computer all day, but if you are trying to lose weight doing an hour of walking lets say burns about 300 calories, it helps, but if your diet isnt on game, you could easily ingest more then that on a post workout meal

I personally cant eat less,once I start eating I devour everything, but somehow I can eat none and be fine, Ive lost 20lbs in the last 60 days through a mixture of intermittent fasting and extended fasting, I can easily eat 1500-2500 calories in a meal, I just do that once a day and skip a day here and there, I find it much easier then trying to eat 3 500 calorie meals a day, I'll end up snacking to fill myself up in between meals when I try to restrict


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: gopher]
    #26614692 - 04/20/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

lol, the food pyramid is no longer in use

whole grains are in fact good for you



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26614701 - 04/20/20 08:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The advice works.  Healthy eating and daily exercise do work.  They are the most full proof and holistic natural way, and are time honored.
It’s just that it can be really hard for people to start and make it a daily life habit till they are conditioned to it.  Those motivated enough usually find a way.  Sometimes people need extra help .  But you can’t say it doesn’t work, especially when so many want an easy way to cut corners first and foremost, or are deceiving themselves in some way.  Often times it takes failing at it a few dozen times before you learn the ropes.
That’s okay too.  As Buddhist sayings go - some are like the horse that runs at the sign of the shadow of a whip, others need to actually feel it hit them hard over and over before they budge.  You’d be surprised how many people will better themselves when they have the right help from the right person in the right way for them, I see it a lot in my work. 


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/20/20 09:01 AM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26614723 - 04/20/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think he is trying to argue that healthy eating doesn't work, I think he is trying to argue that doctors don't know what it means to eat healthy because some of them are fat and a lot of the patients don't follow through.


My weight loss really took off after taking formal nutrition courses and I've kept it off ever since.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614734 - 04/20/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I think there's an additional factor at play here; something akin to a breakdown in mental health that I suspect is driving a lot of the conspiracy theorists.



Well too bad for the snowflakes then, they'll have to put up with people pushing their rosy faces into the facts. At a high level, these facts aren't overly complicated and there's no excuse for denying them.




Interesting view.  Everyone's health is not equal.  Some are more deserving of health.

What about people who have lived their lives in unhealthy ways, such that their damaged bodies are highly susceptible to pathogens?

Maybe only those with genetic issues outside of their control should be eligible for healthcare.  Smokers and the obese should be denied since their actions indicate that health is not of great concern to them.



You're going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what I posted. I argued against people unwilling to acknowledge the existence of a major healthcare crisis by ignoring some basic facts. Finding it difficult to accept what is going on is no excuse for denying it.


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Invisiblevinsue
Grand Old Fart
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Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ) Flag
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26614741 - 04/20/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

https://www.newsweek.com/alex-jones-shakes-hands-protesters-texas-rally-stay-home-order-1498862
Alex Jones pictured shaking hands with protesters at a Texas rally against social distancing measures on Saturday.




. . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
Male

Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks]
    #26614766 - 04/20/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I think there's an additional factor at play here; something akin to a breakdown in mental health that I suspect is driving a lot of the conspiracy theorists.



Well too bad for the snowflakes then, they'll have to put up with people pushing their rosy faces into the facts. At a high level, these facts aren't overly complicated and there's no excuse for denying them.




You're going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what I posted. I argued against people unwilling to acknowledge the existence of a major healthcare crisis by ignoring some basic facts. Finding it difficult to accept what is going on is no excuse for denying it.




Ok, so you disagree with JSB that it is a breakdown in mental health.  I agree with JSB on that point.  You can minimize it, but it does result in harm.  That guy in Nova Scotia who just snapped and went on a shooting spree for instance.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: vinsue]
    #26614778 - 04/20/20 09:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
https://www.newsweek.com/alex-jones-shakes-hands-protesters-texas-rally-stay-home-order-1498862
Alex Jones pictured shaking hands with protesters at a Texas rally against social distancing measures on Saturday.




. . . :peace:




The grifter grifts again ,  what’s new?  That’s his game and his game is how he makes a living.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/20/20 09:33 AM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614794 - 04/20/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Interesting view.  Everyone's health is not equal.  Some are more deserving of health.

What about people who have lived their lives in unhealthy ways, such that their damaged bodies are highly susceptible to pathogens?

Maybe only those with genetic issues outside of their control should be eligible for healthcare.  Smokers and the obese should be denied since their actions indicate that health is not of great concern to them..



I don't think you interpreted what I said in a manner that you can agree with me.

As Koraks said, you took it off on a tangent - far from which my original point even hinted at - and ran with it.

My comments had NOTHING to do with people's physical health, or what they 'deserve', or who should be eligible for healthcare.

I honestly don't know where you got any of that from.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire
I'm a teapot


Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted]
    #26614807 - 04/20/20 09:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:


My weight loss really took off after taking formal nutrition courses and I've kept it off ever since.





what kinda things did you learn in the course? I dont know if its true but I heard doctors only get like a week on nutrition and it was mostly something weird like metabolic pathways of vitamins or something like that I forget what I heard, but it wasnt stuff related to like general health through eating


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614809 - 04/20/20 09:43 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
That guy in Nova Scotia who just snapped and went on a shooting spree for instance.




I don't think he just snapped, he probably was planning that for some time. Obtaining the police car and uniform for example.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: gopher]
    #26614816 - 04/20/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:


My weight loss really took off after taking formal nutrition courses and I've kept it off ever since.





what kinda things did you learn in the course? I dont know if its true but I heard doctors only get like a week on nutrition and it was mostly something weird like metabolic pathways of vitamins or something like that I forget what I heard, but it wasnt stuff related to like general health through eating




Depends on various factors.  Med school. Residency/Fellowship.  Specialization.  Adjunctive courses.  Autodidactic learning.  So much.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614818 - 04/20/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Ok, so you disagree with JSB that it is a breakdown in mental health. 



I partly agree with the thought he expressed, which is that the denial stems from emotional distress. My counterargument is that this is not a valid reason for people to deny what is happening. It may explain why people may want to stick their heads into the sand, but it's still not an excuse to keep doing so if some simple facts are available that prove the severity of the situation beyond any reasonable doubt. Hence my stating some of those facts along with the message that ignoring them is asinine. I stand by that.


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
Male

Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks]
    #26614836 - 04/20/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Ok, so you disagree with JSB that it is a breakdown in mental health. 



I partly agree with the thought he expressed, which is that the denial stems from emotional distress. My counterargument is that this is not a valid reason for people to deny what is happening. It may explain why people may want to stick their heads into the sand, but it's still not an excuse to keep doing so if some simple facts are available that prove the severity of the situation beyond any reasonable doubt. Hence my stating some of those facts along with the message that ignoring them is asinine. I stand by that.




Mental illness is not rational or reasonable.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26614842 - 04/20/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not referring to mental illness. I'm referring to people who are sane, but emotionally stressed by the situation and as a result fail to acknowledge it, and instead choose to construct fairy tales.


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
Male

Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26614847 - 04/20/20 09:59 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Ok, so you disagree with JSB that it is a breakdown in mental health. 



I partly agree with the thought he expressed, which is that the denial stems from emotional distress. My counterargument is that this is not a valid reason for people to deny what is happening. It may explain why people may want to stick their heads into the sand, but it's still not an excuse to keep doing so if some simple facts are available that prove the severity of the situation beyond any reasonable doubt. Hence my stating some of those facts along with the message that ignoring them is asinine. I stand by that.




Mental illness is not rational or reasonable.
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Interesting view.  Everyone's health is not equal.  Some are more deserving of health.

What about people who have lived their lives in unhealthy ways, such that their damaged bodies are highly susceptible to pathogens?

Maybe only those with genetic issues outside of their control should be eligible for healthcare.  Smokers and the obese should be denied since their actions indicate that health is not of great concern to them..



I don't think you interpreted what I said in a manner that you can agree with me.

As Koraks said, you took it off on a tangent - far from which my original point even hinted at - and ran with it.

My comments had NOTHING to do with people's physical health, or what they 'deserve', or who should be eligible for healthcare.

I honestly don't know where you got any of that from.




You just don't want us to be in agreement.  argumentum ad absurdum  is not "going off on a tangent".

You said the behavior could be caused at least in part by a break in mental health.  Koraks said those people aren't snowflakes, saying there should be no special consideration for those with breaks in mental health.  I argue that we can follow that step (mental health is not worth consideration whereas virus infection is) and apply it further and further to arbitrarily distinguish which groups of people we deem worthy of having health considered.  Point being that I find flaw in the assertion that mental health should be treated being less worthy of treatment than other illness.


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
Male

Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks]
    #26614849 - 04/20/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I'm not referring to mental illness. I'm referring to people who are sane, but emotionally stressed by the situation and as a result fail to acknowledge it, and instead choose to construct fairy tales.




So you both agree with JSB that it is due in part to mental illness, but then you are not referring to mental illess.  Ok


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