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FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


Registered: 10/21/18
Posts: 264
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: Shenmue]
#26614281 - 04/20/20 03:26 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just a slight hamhead correction. If someone shows up at the hospital with flu symptoms, has already been sick for a few days, and appears to be in no danger of dying, they are just sent home and told to hydrate and come back if they become short of breath etc. even in the F’d up health care system - we don’t test people needlessly. They would get a bill for a flu test that would not help them get better or tell us anything new.
There are many reasons you would get a flu swab (test). One would be if your symptoms have just started. Let’s just say 24 hours or less for sake of argument. In this care you would get a glue Sean to confirm you have the flu and then if you are found to be flu positive- you are prescribed tamiflu. The only medicine that may shorten the duration and severity of flu if started soon after infection.
As of right now the Covid19 guidelines change every day.
Here is where you are wrong. Not every person who comes in with symptoms of COVID has been getting tested. If you are relatively healthy, and you have mild symptoms that don’t seem life threatening you are sent home with instructions to self quarantine for 14 days as well as staying away from other humans until you have not had a fever without taking medications (antipyretics) for 3 days. I think this was done initially to lessen the burden on laboratories so we could get results back faster for people who were critically ill.
In general - testing is only performed for any illness if the outcome of the result will effect the treatment guidelines.
Now let’s say you are some conspiracy theory A hole. You come into the hospital with COVID like symptoms and are told to quarantine yourself and refuse. You will get a COVID test and if you are positive the local health department will get notified. They will then follow up and make sure you quarantine yourself so you don’t go out into the world infecting people and killing someone’s grandparents out of ignorance.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
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Sandala
Noob Shroomer

Registered: 02/20/20
Posts: 197
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Lots of assertions about flu deaths, no numbers tho.
The average number of flu deaths during the 1990s was 36,000. Average number over a longer time frame from 1976 to 2007 was 23,607 deaths. If you take the number of deaths year wise, you will find a vast variation with a low of 3,349 deaths during the flu season of 1986-87 to a high of 48,614 in 2003-04. Link
Heres some CDC numbers from a few recent bad years... CDC source link
Year infected Hospitalised medical visits Deaths 2012/13 34 million 530k-680k 16 Million 37,000 - 57,000 2014/15 30 Million 540k-680k-390k 14 Million 44,000 - 64,000 2017/18 45 MIllion 620k-1.4 Mil 21 Million 46,000 - 95,000
US Rona stats as of 19th April CDC source link
Infected Deaths 720,630 37,200
Given that the CDC changed the reporting criteria for the Rona on death certificates, to include suspected (i.e. untested) cases, and cases where the Rona was only a contributing factor...
Quote:
It is important to emphasize that Coronavirus Disease 2019 or COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death
CDC source link
We can assume the numbers for Rona deaths are artificially high.
So Yeah, as many doctors are saying, if it wasn't for the new (unreliable) test, nobody would have noticed there was a pandemic, all these deaths would have been put down to pneumonia, and it would have been another bad year.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 6 hours
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: Sandala]
#26614339 - 04/20/20 04:52 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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There's so much going on that I can safely say I don't trust a single source or person to give me an objective, unbiased, non-narrative spin on just what in the actual fuck is happening right now.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
Given that the CDC changed the reporting criteria for the Rona on death certificates, to include suspected (i.e. untested) cases, and cases where the Rona was only a contributing factor...
they are not artificially high. coronavirus is causing people with other diseases to die of those diseases. The labs make it very obvious whether or not someone has Covid-19, even without a test. Honestly the tests are shit, the clinical judgment of a doctor is almost certainly a more reliable indicator than the test.
Quote:
nobody would have noticed there was a pandemic,
holy fuck you are dumb
Literally all these conspiracy theorists have to do to not be wrong about this is go find yourself a job in a hospital in nyc. Hell, be a janitor. Protip: the hallways arent usually filled with beds and patients, and you dont usually hear them calling a code every 45 minutes.
Amazing how people can just speculate about shit from their couch when people who work in the emergency rooms are telling them outright that this is not something ANY doctor or nurse has seen in their entire lives. Nothing like this has happened since the 1950s
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twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,556
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted]
#26614430 - 04/20/20 06:05 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sure is excitin'
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted]
#26614441 - 04/20/20 06:13 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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People tend to avoid a flu, regardless if there is a pandemic, which some believe that influenza is in fact, a seasonal pandemic. Why would someone with no medical background seek employment in a hospital?
Or be licking door knobs? I don't think a door knob has much of a nutritional value.
See, ignorance causes suffering. Our ignorance of this new virus is causing suffering world wide. Once we can see through ignorance for what rona really is, our suffering will begin to fade.
Mine has already. I am aware of viruses and am happy to see others awareness becoming raised to see that we are indeed all connected.
I have no fear of rona, because I am aware and practice avoidance on a regular basis.
I'm going to work now. Life has not changed much. Toilet paper stocks are replenishing.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
Edited by HamHead (04/20/20 06:14 AM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: HamHead]
#26614452 - 04/20/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can’t even
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: HamHead]
#26614457 - 04/20/20 06:31 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Worldwide cases:
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: Sandala] 2
#26614468 - 04/20/20 06:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why covid is not a hoax, it's not inflated or a big false positive: * We see a massive influx of people in hospitals with respiratory problems that outstrips any seasonal flu by an enormous margin * ICU's in affected countries are in many cases overwhelmed (defined as: running at significantly more than 100% capacity) with people who don't respond to treatment and exhibit a pattern that is not consistent with the flu or any other kind of known disease, save for perhaps SARS, MERS etc. * In countries where fairly accurate recording of deaths occurs, we see a huge increase in death rates. E.g. in The Netherlands, the death rate at this time of the year is typically a little under 3000, with peaks to 4000 in years with a heavy flu epidemic. Currently the weakly death rate is over 5000. Keep in mind that this is in a country where it is estimated that 3% of the population have been infected with ncov2 (so not just confirmed cases, but also inferred cases based on random sampling). Regional patterns are highly variable with some communities being heavily affected (death rate up to 5-7x normal levels for this time of year), while other communities are virtually unaffected.
So even if you basically ignore the testing or research that is being done and just look at how some high-level numbers are different from past years, it's blatantly obvious that something serious is going on. People who do not acknowledge this are either severely intellectually challenged, deliberately obtuse or (in most cases) both.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks] 2
#26614512 - 04/20/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: People who do not acknowledge this are either severely intellectually challenged, deliberately obtuse or (in most cases) both.
I think there's an additional factor at play here; something akin to a breakdown in mental health that I suspect is driving a lot of the conspiracy theorists.
I mean, it's certainly a huge shift for us all to deal with, and understandably, some are handling it better than others.
I think, when so much that we've come to rely on, and take for granted, is suddenly thrown into a state of flux and uncertainty, some people will start to join dots and create explanations for themselves that just aint so.
Forgiveness is what we need, as hard as it can be when people say things which deny the suffering of thousands/millions.
For are the people who spout this shit clearly not suffering themselves?
That's how it seems to me.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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The extreme prepper crowd lost the script and started freaking out 3 weeks into the actual emergency they had built their entire identity around
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I think there's an additional factor at play here; something akin to a breakdown in mental health that I suspect is driving a lot of the conspiracy theorists.
Well too bad for the snowflakes then, they'll have to put up with people pushing their rosy faces into the facts. At a high level, these facts aren't overly complicated and there's no excuse for denying them.
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks]
#26614561 - 04/20/20 07:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I think there's an additional factor at play here; something akin to a breakdown in mental health that I suspect is driving a lot of the conspiracy theorists.
Well too bad for the snowflakes then, they'll have to put up with people pushing their rosy faces into the facts. At a high level, these facts aren't overly complicated and there's no excuse for denying them.
Interesting view. Everyone's health is not equal. Some are more deserving of health.
What about people who have lived their lives in unhealthy ways, such that their damaged bodies are highly susceptible to pathogens?
Maybe only those with genetic issues outside of their control should be eligible for healthcare. Smokers and the obese should be denied since their actions indicate that health is not of great concern to them.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks]
#26614564 - 04/20/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think Jokes got a very good and easily overlooked point. Discernment .
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/20/20 07:49 AM)
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: koraks]
#26614577 - 04/20/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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The problem with the situation is we don't have any more information than that this is happening. There's a lot of groups of people making various claims about everything going on but one thing I think that makes it prudent to have some doubt about it all is situations that have happened before. "What do you mean it didn't happen? The government did it? To do what? People were standing right there when it happened. People died climbing in to the rubble. It's disrespectful to those who died!" 19 years later the only people who still hold on to these sentiments are the ones who work for the government or the ones too scared to admit they were wrong. Some people made a lot of money off a couple thousand bodies. 9/11 was real. Just like it felt real to the soldiers who went in to the Iraq war, because they were in the middle of a warzone. Many came back from their service feeling like they shouldn't have went. That government tricked us in to thinking someone did something bad, then tricked it's people into doing bad things to underprivileged civilians in a third world country. They pillaged and acting like heroes, there were torture camps and human rights violations. Hundreds of thousands of people died, within recent memory, to satiate a lie. And no one did fuck all about it, the other countries said YOLO and the people said "Mah freedums." You know who got more heat than anyone post-9/11? The truthers. I'm not saying this is a false flag or that I'm sure of anything, but there's no reason it couldn't be. There's no reason a real emergency can't be manipulated for the benefit of a few. It would be far from out of the ordinary.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
Interesting view. Everyone's health is not equal. Some are more deserving of health.
A) i would love to hear YOUR proposal for how we determine who deserves to live and die
B) in a situation where there are more patients than resources, you bet your ass that doctors use the equipment on the people who are more likely to live.
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire



Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 hours, 33 minutes
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Quote:
InfiniteDreams said: the obese should be denied since their actions indicate that health is not of great concern to them.
except the health care community gives really bad advice to losing weight, eat less move more has like a 90% failure rate, it ignores shit like insulin and ghrelin, when you learn how to manipulate the hormones weight loss becomes a breeze
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: morrowasted]
#26614628 - 04/20/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
Interesting view. Everyone's health is not equal. Some are more deserving of health.
A) i would love to hear YOUR proposal for how we determine who deserves to live and die
B) in a situation where there are more patients than resources, you bet your ass that doctors use the equipment on the people who are more likely to live.
If you saw I was responding to a claim that people's mental health was not important. So I question why we get to make arbitrary determinations on quality of life and its value.
I understand triage.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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we have the capacity to help more people than just those with genetic problems. you're basically saying we should not save as many lives as we could. some people change after major health events. it's worth trying. sometimes there are not enough resources for everyone, but when there are, I consider it unethical not to use them. you can sit there and judge smokers and drinkers if you want. not my job.
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Is Covid 19 really a hoax? [Re: gopher]
#26614637 - 04/20/20 08:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
gopher said:
Quote:
InfiniteDreams said: the obese should be denied since their actions indicate that health is not of great concern to them.
except the health care community gives really bad advice to losing weight, eat less move more has like a 90% failure rate, it ignores shit like insulin and ghrelin, when you learn how to manipulate the hormones weight loss becomes a breeze
This is only true on the Internet. In the real world I see a very small proportion of obese people involved in activities that require energy expenditure (maybe 5%, yet by population they are 50-66%).
Go out to any restaurant (in the before times) and you can see hordes of overweight people consuming vast quantities of food. Usually more than would be needed for a whole day in a single meal.
People vastly overestimate their amount of activity, and underestimate their food consumption. If they don't need to be held accountable then I guess it is another mental disorder.
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