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Invisiblenooneman
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How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? * 1
    #26611842 - 04/19/20 12:39 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I think there's really good arguments on both sides of the debate for and against reopening. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we're pretty fucked either way.

If we don't reopen, the economy is fucked, we enter into the greatest recession since the great depression, mass joblessness, mass homelessness, we could ruin the country for years or decades. And it's not even clear when we'd be able to reopen if we're waiting on some vaccine that may or may not ever appear. Not all viruses have vaccines. Even if we do develop a vaccine, it might not be available for years, which means the US would be devastated economically in that time. In addition, a quarantine is a restriction of basic freedoms like the freedom of assembly and the freedom of movement.

On the other hand, if we do reopen, millions could die. It's not just about other people. Think about your parents, your grandparents, your older relatives, any older friends or family. They might all be dead in a month or two. Not to mention the tens or hundreds of thousands of young people who will die too. Even if we decide it's worth letting those people die to save our economy, a massive amount of people getting sick and dying might overwhelm our ability to cope with it causing a recession or depression even if we do reopen. And morally, is it really morally justifiable to sacrifice millions in exchange for the economy: essentially killing our relatives in exchange for money?

So here's a poll, and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the subject. Me personally, I lean towards reopening, but the morality/immorality of doing so is what keeps me from supporting it. Not to mention the health of the people I love. But I don't think the quarantine is a good idea either. They're both bad options IMO. What do you think?
Do you want to reopen the US ASAP?
You may choose only one
Yes
No
STAL
How strongly do you believe in reopening the US or keeping it closed?
You may choose only one
Strongly Agree with reopening ASAP
Somewhat Agree with reopening ASAP
Neutral
Somewhat Agree with keeping it closed
Strongly Agree with keeping it closed
STAL
When should the US reopen?
You may choose only one
April
May
June
July
August or Later
STAL


Votes accepted from (04/19/20 12:29 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll | Filter by response



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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #26612025 - 04/19/20 03:52 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I am european so STAL, but i want to see what you guys vote.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: living_failure]
    #26612127 - 04/19/20 06:19 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
I am european so STAL, but i want to see what you guys vote.




Same here. ST3L


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Offlineqman
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Asante] * 8
    #26612355 - 04/19/20 08:20 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I disagree with your original thesis, the economy isn't necessarily "fucked" if we wait this thing out and the government provides the proper resources to the working class during that process.  That's the narrative the billionaire class wants the peasants to think as their profits dry up, but that doesn't make it true.

It's truly amazing that the recent protests in the US isn't about The Elite getting trillions in free money for this crisis as the peasants are essentially getting zero. The protests are about the peasants demanding to risk their lives to pay their bills to benefit The Elite. We clearly have a country full of retarded people who love their oppressors.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: qman] * 3
    #26612586 - 04/19/20 09:58 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

This is, of course, the ultimate test.  If anything is going to bring the middle and lower classes to the breaking point, it's going to be this.  Economic inequality has been offset by the availability of cheap distractions for the masses.  Now, the masses are more restless than they've ever been and they're becoming more restless by the day.  In addition, the simple comforts that are so cheaply available in the U.S. are becoming less available and more unaffordable.

The time is ripe for a real social uprising, if not a violent one.  If the elite don't see that and do something to assuage the masses, we might just see some real change in the U.S.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #26612659 - 04/19/20 10:45 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
If we don't reopen, the economy is fucked, we enter into the greatest recession since the great depression, mass joblessness, mass homelessness, we could ruin the country for years or decades.




I reject this argument.

First of all, unemployment is already nearing 20%. That's worse than the 2008 crash, that's Great Depression numbers. It's not about "potentially ruining the economy".

The economy is ALREADY fucked.

Now, qman here has a point. If we give money to main street, this will be a relatively painless crash. Suck for the stock market, but people would be alright. Heck, some have argued that the economy has never recovered since 2008, and that the only thing the rising stock market demonstrated was the amount of government money pumped into wall street.

Personally, I think all those "wealthy job creators" should be out there pulling jobs out of those bootstraps, right? Unless that was always a bullshit line?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26612721 - 04/19/20 11:10 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I just fail to see how we can really do it before we have full testing capability. It seems to me, and I am no expert, that until we have enough test kits -- tests which are designed to give extremely fast results -- it is pretty much impossible to resume normal economic activity. Every citizen will need to be testing themselves at least once a week for months (if not longer?) in order really to have an economy that can be safely ramped back up.

If we do reopen before this testing capacity is achieved, it seems to me we'll just have spike after spike. Imo, those are just the facts.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26612743 - 04/19/20 11:22 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus

Registered: 11/23/19
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26612750 - 04/19/20 11:26 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
If we don't reopen, the economy is fucked, we enter into the greatest recession since the great depression, mass joblessness, mass homelessness, we could ruin the country for years or decades.




I reject this argument.

First of all, unemployment is already nearing 20%. That's worse than the 2008 crash, that's Great Depression numbers. It's not about "potentially ruining the economy".

The economy is ALREADY fucked.

Now, qman here has a point. If we give money to main street, this will be a relatively painless crash. Suck for the stock market, but people would be alright. Heck, some have argued that the economy has never recovered since 2008, and that the only thing the rising stock market demonstrated was the amount of government money pumped into wall street.

Personally, I think all those "wealthy job creators" should be out there pulling jobs out of those bootstraps, right? Unless that was always a bullshit line?



Strange how many Americans despise casinos and gamblers but when we’re talking about the economy and stocks the gambling is seen as legitimate source of income. At least the working class can afford to gamble at casinos, the only people who tend to make money in the stock market aside from a few who get lucky investing in volatile stock are the ones who can already afford a couple vacations homes.

Who cares about unemployment, this is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and the majority of it goes to less than 10000 people. UBI for everyone, let those who want more work and those who want to pursue other interests will be free to.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus

Registered: 11/23/19
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26612757 - 04/19/20 11:29 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.




That’s what Tyson is getting away with right now, no sick leave. There are leaked emails from Amazon execs trying to figure out how to smear workers trying to speak out against their unsafe working conditions but nothing has been done about it.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26612782 - 04/19/20 11:39 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Yeetusdeetus said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.




That’s what Tyson is getting away with right now, no sick leave. There are leaked emails from Amazon execs trying to figure out how to smear workers trying to speak out against their unsafe working conditions but nothing has been done about it.




That's different. No paid sick leave and firing people that complain are standard practice throughout the US.

What I mean is giving companies complete legal immunity, so that if workers die due to unsafe working conditions, they cannot sue the company.


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OnlineNear Dylan
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26612811 - 04/19/20 11:49 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
This is, of course, the ultimate test.  If anything is going to bring the middle and lower classes to the breaking point, it's going to be this.  Economic inequality has been offset by the availability of cheap distractions for the masses.  Now, the masses are more restless than they've ever been and they're becoming more restless by the day.  In addition, the simple comforts that are so cheaply available in the U.S. are becoming less available and more unaffordable.

The time is ripe for a real social uprising, if not a violent one.  If the elite don't see that and do something to assuage the masses, we might just see some real change in the U.S.



I like the way you think :cool:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26612826 - 04/19/20 11:55 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Every citizen will need to be testing themselves at least once a week for months (if not longer?) in order really to have an economy that can be safely ramped back up.



I don't think once a week is enough to keep anyone safe.  I think it would have to be a daily test.


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I am stupid for thinking feldman114 was wrong about the New York Times being a mainstream (non-establishment) paper.  I now clearly see that it is.

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OfflineYeetusdeetus

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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26612829 - 04/19/20 11:57 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Yeetusdeetus said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.




That’s what Tyson is getting away with right now, no sick leave. There are leaked emails from Amazon execs trying to figure out how to smear workers trying to speak out against their unsafe working conditions but nothing has been done about it.




That's different. No paid sick leave and firing people that complain are standard practice throughout the US.

What I mean is giving companies complete legal immunity, so that if workers die due to unsafe working conditions, they cannot sue the company.




I wouldn’t be surprised if some form of crisis collateral becomes legal and common as the workplace death count increases. “Sorry your dad died but he knew the risks, here’s 200 dollars.”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26612832 - 04/19/20 11:58 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
This is, of course, the ultimate test.  If anything is going to bring the middle and lower classes to the breaking point, it's going to be this.  Economic inequality has been offset by the availability of cheap distractions for the masses.  Now, the masses are more restless than they've ever been and they're becoming more restless by the day.  In addition, the simple comforts that are so cheaply available in the U.S. are becoming less available and more unaffordable.

The time is ripe for a real social uprising, if not a violent one.  If the elite don't see that and do something to assuage the masses, we might just see some real change in the U.S.



I like the way you think :cool:



Agreed.  Now, how do we get the masses to do a real social uprising, if not a violent one, while they're confined to their homes without risking the lives of everyone who goes out to protest?


--------------------
I am stupid for thinking feldman114 was wrong about the New York Times being a mainstream (non-establishment) paper.  I now clearly see that it is.

Note - This signature ended up as a badge of honor since the New York Times turned out to be  far more corrupt than either of us thought.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26612839 - 04/19/20 12:01 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.





Unfortunately plausible in today's U.S.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26612891 - 04/19/20 12:18 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.



In the U.S., people can't be forced to go to work.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26612946 - 04/19/20 12:41 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.





Unfortunately plausible in today's U.S.




Yeah, this was based entirely on that phone call dumpy had with CEOs. At least a few expressed concern over being sued if they reopen too early. I am more than certain that the possibility of legal immunity came up.

Quote:

Enlil said:
In the U.S., people can't be forced to go to work.




Correct, people are not forced to work. However, people are also not given any way to survive without going to work. This is one of those legal vs. real arguments, in which we are both correct in different ways.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26612953 - 04/19/20 12:44 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Not really.  People aren't working now.  If they reopen, and people refuse to go back to work, those people are in exactly the same position as they were.  Ultimately, the decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to reopen.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26612966 - 04/19/20 12:50 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
This is, of course, the ultimate test.  If anything is going to bring the middle and lower classes to the breaking point, it's going to be this.  Economic inequality has been offset by the availability of cheap distractions for the masses.  Now, the masses are more restless than they've ever been and they're becoming more restless by the day.  In addition, the simple comforts that are so cheaply available in the U.S. are becoming less available and more unaffordable.

The time is ripe for a real social uprising, if not a violent one.  If the elite don't see that and do something to assuage the masses, we might just see some real change in the U.S.



I like the way you think :cool:



Agreed.  Now, how do we get the masses to do a real social uprising, if not a violent one, while they're confined to their homes without risking the lives of everyone who goes out to protest?



We don't. We reach the point where the risk from covid is outweighed by the sense of injustice. Lots of people will die, but that will only serve to heighten the sense of injustice until chaos ensues.


--------------------
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OnlineNear Dylan
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26613007 - 04/19/20 01:09 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

A technological revolt would be the only feasible form of significant uprising in a nation like the United States. A society that is held together by technology can only be forcefully reformed by either controlling that technology, or destroying it. Collapse some industries through things like erasing debts, destroying records, sabotaging production. Dirt collection on elites for the use of blackmail and/or reputation destruction. Mass leaking of unsavory government documents. Extreme over-production of currency. Utilizing control over the electrical grid as a weapon. Shit like that. Imagine the chaos... chaos is the best friend of a revolutionary.

Revolution in first world nations will no longer come from the barrel of guns but from the clicks of mouses (mice?). If a society runs on a series of networks, you dont have to start a civil war to tear it down. Just find ways to control those networks, or destroy them.

Hello to any journalists and/or federal agents. This is satire. Heehee haha jokey silly time. Please move along.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26613041 - 04/19/20 01:38 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Everybody everywhere wants things back to normal and open for business as soon as possible but I don’t want to catch it, it can be pretty gnarly

And I don’t want to infect anyone else. I’m not going out and gathering.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26613074 - 04/19/20 02:00 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

. A society that is held together by technology can only be forcefully reformed by either controlling that technology, or destroying it. Collapse some industries through things like erasing debts, destroying records, sabotaging production. Dirt collection on elites for the use of blackmail and/or reputation destruction. Mass leaking of unsavory government documents. Extreme over-production of currency. Utilizing control over the electrical grid as a weapon. Shit like that. Imagine




Fight Club shit  ! Fuck ya .


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 2
    #26613159 - 04/19/20 03:00 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Imagine the chaos... chaos is the best friend of a revolutionary.




Chaos is the best friend of the revolutionary in the abstract sense.

Thing is, for every revolutionary that wants to make life better for everyone, there's a corporate fascist revolutionary that wants to seize power.

Once society is in a state of chaos, we don't know who wins.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26613302 - 04/19/20 04:12 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
... chaos is the best friend of a revolutionary.




Until food production & delivery  & distribution.... stop

And that depends on many interconnected businesses

Trucks need drivers, gas, tires
The Dispatcher needs not just telephone but most likely internet & wi-fi
Gas needs refineries
tires need...
the list goes on & on

Then there is the list
for railroads,
and another one for tractors & so on

of course if humans didn't need food & hospitals & still had survival skills & half of Americans weren't obese or diabetic you might be right...


--------------------
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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: laughingdog] * 3
    #26613348 - 04/19/20 04:34 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)



--------------------



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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26614079 - 04/19/20 11:22 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:




At this point I am not even sure if when someone is ironic or not.

Do you realize poor people can be white and that not all rich people are white?


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OfflineBabylon
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: living_failure] * 3
    #26614092 - 04/19/20 11:35 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Reopening too quickly will be worse for the economy, it will lead to widespread death and chaos.  We have to take a different approach and actually take care of people so they can stay home safely.  It wouldn't be difficult, it would take a fraction of the budget spent propping up the stock market, or running the military.

I don't think it is likely, but if we don't take that approach there is going to be a lot of death, from starvation and also from Covid.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Babylon]
    #26614103 - 04/19/20 11:48 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I think June is the perfect time to reopen everything. The hot weather will probably slow this shit down. If we keep it closed down longer than that we're fucked.. we can't keep the country closed down forever.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: living_failure]
    #26614450 - 04/20/20 06:25 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Do you realize poor people can be white and that not all rich people are white?




Are you trying to say if you are poor and desperate you shouldn’t follow  the rules ?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26614460 - 04/20/20 06:35 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Imagine the chaos... chaos is the best friend of a revolutionary.




Chaos is the best friend of the revolutionary in the abstract sense.

Thing is, for every revolutionary that wants to make life better for everyone, there's a corporate fascist revolutionary that wants to seize power.

Once society is in a state of chaos, we don't know who wins.




Well said, and given the realities of this country, I don't like our chances. I hate to sound play it safe, but we should settle for an incremental movement to the left. If the U.S. goes chaotic, we are much more likely to embrace fascism than hard core socialism.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: living_failure] * 2
    #26614463 - 04/20/20 06:37 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

At this point I am not even sure if when someone is ironic or not.




  You know what’s ironic ?  Complaining about your water being poisoned in Flynt Michigan by a Republican governor  and then staging an armed protest over a democratic governors safety  regulations that are trying to keep you from getting sick .


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26614543 - 04/20/20 07:34 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Well said, and given the realities of this country, I don't like our chances. I hate to sound play it safe, but we should settle for an incremental movement to the left. If the U.S. goes chaotic, we are much more likely to embrace fascism than hard core socialism.



Bitch we might as well be in fascism already, what fuckin difference would it make? All our fucking money goes to the military after the gov takes it from us by threat of imprisonment, our industry is driven by war, our votes don't mean shit, most of the important decision makers in the country are appointed rather than elected anyway, we are given two options of two people that they pick for us and then they pick the winner and even after that puppet fuck is in office we have absolutely no say in what he will and wont do. Exactly what kind of 'incremental' movements are we talking about? Oh boyyyyy maybe in 8 years after endless 'protesting' we might have a broken universal healthcare system at best, wowie.

Fuck 'hardcore socialism'. Fuck all pussy ideology. Tear  the whole thing to the fucking ground and start over :crankey:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26614604 - 04/20/20 08:14 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Well said, and given the realities of this country, I don't like our chances. I hate to sound play it safe, but we should settle for an incremental movement to the left. If the U.S. goes chaotic, we are much more likely to embrace fascism than hard core socialism.



Bitch we might as well be in fascism already, what fuckin difference would it make? All our fucking money goes to the military after the gov takes it from us by threat of imprisonment, our industry is driven by war, our votes don't mean shit, most of the important decision makers in the country are appointed rather than elected anyway, we are given two options of two people that they pick for us and then they pick the winner and even after that puppet fuck is in office we have absolutely no say in what he will and wont do. Exactly what kind of 'incremental' movements are we talking about? Oh boyyyyy maybe in 8 years after endless 'protesting' we might have a broken universal healthcare system at best, wowie.

Fuck 'hardcore socialism'. Fuck all pussy ideology. Tear  the whole thing to the fucking ground and start over :crankey:




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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26614623 - 04/20/20 08:22 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

we are given two options of two people that they pick for us and then they pick the winner and even




  That’s not true , we had 4 other options .
Johnson , Stein , McMullin and Castle .
Also there were about 25 other choices in the primary way more qualified than the current president . That’s actually more choices than I care to think about . 


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2] * 2
    #26614642 - 04/20/20 08:31 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

It's cute that you think those were legitimate options with any semblance of a chance. Toss in 1000 more 'choices' and the DNC would've still pushed Biden and we can't do dick about it. This isn't our game to play, we're just spectators. Some are mindless fans waving foam fingers, at best. That's what they want. Bread and circuses for the masses. The political game has just become our Colosseum. Give the people the illusion that they have any say in what happens, tell them they live in the land of the free, tell them our nation stands for democracy, tell them that we are the embodiment of freedom, call them 'unpatriotic' if they question why none of that lines up with reality. Hope they shut the fuck up and keep cheering from the sidelines, arguing with the fans wearing the opposite jersey.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26614655 - 04/20/20 08:37 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Divide & Conquer.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26614675 - 04/20/20 08:46 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Biden and we can't do dick about it.




You can not vote for him or join the dnc . You may not know this but no one can force you to vote for Biden . Can’t force anyone else either .


Quote:

Give the people the illusion that they have any say in what happens,




How did Trump become president ? Was just he Rnc primary rigged to ?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #26614690 - 04/20/20 08:53 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
You may not know this but no one can force you to vote for Biden . Can’t force anyone else either .



In a roundabout way, yes they absolutely can and absolutely have. Open your fuckin eyes bro. Check out koods posts over the past few months if you think that's so hard to wrap your head around.
Regardless, trying to stay up in the polls is just keeping up appearances.

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Give the people the illusion that they have any say in what happens,




How did Trump become president ? Was just he Rnc primary rigged to ?



Yes. Go back and analyze. If anything it's painfully obvious. You think they were gonna pick Ben Carson or somethin? Lmao. Trump has plenty of friends in high places. Is a figure-head of corruption. Now playing ball in a system where that's the name of the game. Where the fuck do u think u live, man? Do you really trust this system or do you just want to?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26614739 - 04/20/20 09:16 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Do you realize poor people can be white and that not all rich people are white?




Are you trying to say if you are poor and desperate you shouldn’t follow  the rules ?



Lol at comparing breaking into the country and following police orders, to protesting  :lol:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26614750 - 04/20/20 09:21 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Lol at "breaking into the country."

How is disobeying police orders different from disobeying a lawful order to stay at home?  If anything police orders have less force of authority because they aren't decided by elected officials.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614754 - 04/20/20 09:23 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol at "breaking into the country."

How is disobeying police orders different from disobeying a lawful order to stay at home?  If anything police orders have less force of authority because they aren't decided by elected officials.



Cuz in this case its a protest


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614757 - 04/20/20 09:24 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Sheriffs are elected tho.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26614764 - 04/20/20 09:27 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yes, the ONE person who holds the title of Sheriff.  Not the deputy sheriffs that actually pull people over, though.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #26614768 - 04/20/20 09:29 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol at "breaking into the country."

How is disobeying police orders different from disobeying a lawful order to stay at home?  If anything police orders have less force of authority because they aren't decided by elected officials.



Cuz in this case its a protest



So, when a black man thinks he's being harassed for his skin color and disobeys the officers in protest, that's just the "colored folk causing problems."  When white people put others at risk during a pandemic because they disagree with a lawful order, that's a "protest."

You must be in pretty good shape with all those mental gymnastics you're doing.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614769 - 04/20/20 09:30 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yes, the ONE person who holds the title of Sheriff.  Not the deputy sheriffs that actually pull people over, though.



Those aren't the ones who decide on police orders though...


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26614779 - 04/20/20 09:33 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yeah they are.  When an officer pulls you over and tells you to lie face down on the ground, the officer is the one who made that call...not an elected sheriff way back in some office at the county seat.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614790 - 04/20/20 09:35 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol at "breaking into the country."

How is disobeying police orders different from disobeying a lawful order to stay at home?  If anything police orders have less force of authority because they aren't decided by elected officials.



Cuz in this case its a protest



So, when a black man thinks he's being harassed for his skin color and disobeys the officers in protest, that's just the "colored folk causing problems."  When white people put others at risk during a pandemic because they disagree with a lawful order, that's a "protest."

You must be in pretty good shape with all those mental gymnastics you're doing.



Protesting an individual officer vs protesting the government. Nice mental gymnastics enlil


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614797 - 04/20/20 09:37 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I thought we were referring to police officers enforcing COVID related orders.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26614806 - 04/20/20 09:41 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yeah, but not in the way that you're discussing now.  The meme was basically saying that right wingers use the argument that border jumpers should follow the law and that black people who resist arrest are responsible for beatings and shootings because they didn't follow police orders, but right wingers who disobey the covid orders are justified.  Mush then tried to distinguish the police order part with the covid order part by saying that the covid orders are being disobeyed in "protest."

So, the relevant "police order" being disobeyed by black people are the orders given on the side of the road during a traffic stop, etc.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614810 - 04/20/20 09:44 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I did not look at the meme, my bad guys. Carry on.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26614811 - 04/20/20 09:44 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:

Protesting an individual officer vs protesting the government. Nice mental gymnastics enlil



So, you literally believe that protesting an order given by a single, unelected individual is wrong, but protesting an elected official's order is right?

Okay...I ORDER YOU TO GIVE ME ALL OF YOUR MONEY.  DON'T PROTEST, NOW.

Seriously, dude.  People have a right to protest, but the right wing always seems to want to hurt people with their protests.  If they can't drive a dodge charger into a crowd of people, they'll just infect a bunch.  Why is it always violence with the right?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614826 - 04/20/20 09:51 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:

Protesting an individual officer vs protesting the government. Nice mental gymnastics enlil



So, you literally believe that protesting an order given by a single, unelected individual is wrong, but protesting an elected official's order is right?

Okay...I ORDER YOU TO GIVE ME ALL OF YOUR MONEY.  DON'T PROTEST, NOW.

Seriously, dude.  People have a right to protest, but the right wing always seems to want to hurt people with their protests.  If they can't drive a dodge charger into a crowd of people, they'll just infect a bunch.  Why is it always violence with the right?



You're comparing a planned protest to protesting on the spot. I dont even support the protest, just calling it like it is. And many right wing protests are peaceful, see the latest gun rally in Virginia


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26614857 - 04/20/20 10:03 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And the funny thing is, when the black man protests on the side of the road, HE gets shot.  When a bunch of white people protest, everyone around them gets COVID.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614900 - 04/20/20 10:20 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And the funny thing is, when the black man protests on the side of the road, HE gets shot.  When a bunch of white people protest, everyone around them gets COVID.



I guess this is the part where cite all the blm protests that ended in police shootings


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan] * 1
    #26614915 - 04/20/20 10:27 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
How did Trump become president ? Was just he Rnc primary rigged to ?



Yes. Go back and analyze. If anything it's painfully obvious.



I don't know.  Part of Trump's appeal is that he's not part of the establishment.  That's the one thing I like about him.  He understands the silly foreign games the country is playing that trick otherwise smart people, and I respect him for that.

The problem is, at the end of the day, he's still all about helping the rich (and himself), which is one of the establishment's main goals.  Under Trump, billionaires now pay a lower percentage in taxes than the bottom 50% of the country does.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26614936 - 04/20/20 10:36 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And the funny thing is, when the black man protests on the side of the road, HE gets shot.  When a bunch of white people protest, everyone around them gets COVID.



I guess this is the part where cite all the blm protests that ended in police shootings



Yeah, this is the part where you make an argument that it's okay for people to be violent because other people were violent.  That's really going to help your position.

Unless, of course, you want to openly make this about race, something you've been carefully dancing around, by saying that black people are violent against police, so clearly police should be violent against black people.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26614985 - 04/20/20 10:58 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And the funny thing is, when the black man protests on the side of the road, HE gets shot.  When a bunch of white people protest, everyone around them gets COVID.



I guess this is the part where cite all the blm protests that ended in police shootings



Yeah, this is the part where you make an argument that it's okay for people to be violent because other people were violent.  That's really going to help your position.

Unless, of course, you want to openly make this about race, something you've been carefully dancing around, by saying that black people are violent against police, so clearly police should be violent against black people.



No, i generally dont believe in violence. We were talking about how people were protesting and YOU kept bringing up how black individuals were being unjustly targeted by police. I merely said there's a difference between individuality protesting police orders on the side of the road on a whim, to people planning and showing up on mass to city hall or governor's home or something. A protest is a protest whether or not you agree with it. So who's the one making it about race?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26615022 - 04/20/20 11:12 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yeah, planned harm to others is WAY more defensible than protesting "on a whim."


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26615465 - 04/20/20 02:02 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I want to reopen the country ONLY WHEN we can ensure it won't cause more infections and deaths. If we all go back to work right now without testing and contact tracing we WILL set ourselves up for an infection and death rate that makes this look like child's play.

Then there's not going to be enough people alive to support all businesses through supply chains,medical workers aren't finite and it's not very easy to get new doctors and nurses. It would be the death of America and it really really pissed me off to see that even in a pandemic there large groups of people who don't care about the person next to them, aren't willing to sacrifice money to minimize death and further infections, it's evident in these protests.

Also if we said okay get back to work I guarantee it'll hit these protest circles that thinks it's all a hoax and will all become proverbial typhoid Mary's. Ignorance in this instances does mean the difference life and death. Each one of the protesters that didn't have a mask, said this was a hoax,blocked hospital staff with road blocking, they're all attempted murders imo.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26615520 - 04/20/20 02:18 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

One of my conservative Facebook contacts just posted this:



:doublefacepalm:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26615533 - 04/20/20 02:22 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Survival of what? I'm not even sure where he's getting that number from.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26615564 - 04/20/20 02:31 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Even if that is the coronavirus survival rate, a 1.5% death rate is HUGE.

I don't think he gets it, because he also posted this along with the above.



Just a bit dated, given we're now at 2.4 million cases, 169,000 deaths, and 210 countries (and rising).  :smirk:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26615584 - 04/20/20 02:41 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Its also very misleaading thats just the rate of death for people who get it not how infectious it is. For example on that chart you may see Ebola at 40% mortality and think that's worse then COVID. It is NOT here's how many people got Ebola during the outbreak and died The Ebola outbreak in West Africa was first reported in March 2014, and rapidly became the deadliest occurrence of the disease since its discovery in 1976.

In fact, the epidemic killed five times more than all other known Ebola outbreaks combined.

More than 21 months on from the first confirmed case recorded on 23 March 2014, 11,315 people have been reported as having died from the disease in six countries; Liberia, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, the US and Mali.

The total number of reported cases is about 28,637.


Anyone comparing the two are risking people's lives so they can sound like they know what they're talking about


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26615610 - 04/20/20 02:52 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

That's clearly not the coronavirus survival rate.  In the U.S., the deaths are more than half the amount of people who have recovered.  Worldwide, deaths are a quarter of the amount of recovered.  Any way you look at it, that's a hell of a lot more than 1.5% death rate.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26615846 - 04/20/20 05:09 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Everyone I know hates are world leaders. Why doesn't everyone in the country just March onto Washington and lock those people up? We could seriously end this shit anytime we want but we choose not to. We're so programmed to be their slaves that we forget that we have the numbers. It seems like it always takes a few hundred years before people finally get pissed off enough to fight.



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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Shenmue]
    #26615856 - 04/20/20 05:13 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

You're incorrect, unfortunately.  Our leaders were voted in and keep getting re-elected.  If everyone hated them, that wouldn't happen.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26615890 - 04/20/20 05:29 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Surface level perspective, not true :crankey:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26615892 - 04/20/20 05:30 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

So, those votes we hear about, those are fake?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26615903 - 04/20/20 05:36 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I dont have to explain to you the nuanced political//social implications of a two-party democratic republic rife with propaganda and corruption! :crankey: Figure it out!


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26615940 - 04/20/20 06:01 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Is this the part where you call me schizo?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26616166 - 04/20/20 07:42 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
I dont have to explain to you the nuanced political//social implications of a two-party democratic republic rife with propaganda and corruption! :crankey: Figure it out!




Yeah they're playing us like a fiddle. Most of these politicians grow up with money and go to ivy league schools. They look down on us and consider us inferior. They decide they want power so they become politicians. The billionaire class offers them a ridiculous amount of money to do their bidding so they can continue to be on top. Yes I think we need to end that shit!!!! Bernie straight up said this is what's happening on the Joe rogan podcast and we all know it. There has to be a way to stop this shit! Just look at a company like Amazon! They destroyed nearly every business and pay little too no taxes!! We have bill fucking gates going on television as if hes one of are leaders talking about mandatory vaccines . He runs a fucking software company for god sakes! These people control everything!!


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Shenmue]
    #26616175 - 04/20/20 07:45 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

This is why I believe voting is kind of pointless. At the end of the day Bernie, joe and trump are the same thing. Just people trying to fuck us. That my opinion.....


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26616716 - 04/21/20 02:30 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Not really.  People aren't working now.  If they reopen, and people refuse to go back to work, those people are in exactly the same position as they were.  Ultimately, the decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to reopen.




The federal government can cut off aid to people who refuse to go back. So they can force all the lower classes back, but the people who can afford a few months with no income will be able to sit it out at home.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: viraldrome]
    #26616893 - 04/21/20 06:14 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Force?

Is this Russia in the 1950s?

Is stalin in the White House?

:woah:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Shenmue]
    #26616954 - 04/21/20 07:05 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Quote:

Near Dylan said:
I dont have to explain to you the nuanced political//social implications of a two-party democratic republic rife with propaganda and corruption! :crankey: Figure it out!




Yeah they're playing us like a fiddle. Most of these politicians grow up with money and go to ivy league schools. They look down on us and consider us inferior. They decide they want power so they become politicians. The billionaire class offers them a ridiculous amount of money to do their bidding so they can continue to be on top. Yes I think we need to end that shit!!!! Bernie straight up said this is what's happening on the Joe rogan podcast and we all know it. There has to be a way to stop this shit! Just look at a company like Amazon! They destroyed nearly every business and pay little too no taxes!! We have bill fucking gates going on television as if hes one of are leaders talking about mandatory vaccines . He runs a fucking software company for god sakes! These people control everything!!




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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26616990 - 04/21/20 07:26 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:

The majority of American Presidents after JFK did not grow up rich.


The most recent one hasn't grown up at all.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26617005 - 04/21/20 07:42 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

One of my conservative Facebook contacts just posted this:




Some of  My conservative Facebook friends are talking shit about Muslims and preaching about how we are a Christian nation and everyone must respect that or leave .  I think the corona is still  kinda low on their list of problems to solve .


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #26617013 - 04/21/20 07:49 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Which, of course, begs the question: If your God is so strong, why is the U.S. leading the world in deaths and infections?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617030 - 04/21/20 08:01 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:

Protesting an individual officer vs protesting the government. Nice mental gymnastics enlil



So, you literally believe that protesting an order given by a single, unelected individual is wrong, but protesting an elected official's order is right?

Okay...I ORDER YOU TO GIVE ME ALL OF YOUR MONEY.  DON'T PROTEST, NOW.

Seriously, dude.  People have a right to protest, but the right wing always seems to want to hurt people with their protests.  If they can't drive a dodge charger into a crowd of people, they'll just infect a bunch.  Why is it always violence with the right?




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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26617032 - 04/21/20 08:03 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Alternatively, if a legal precedent was set that companies are not responsible for the health of their employees and cannot be sued by people getting sick due to being forced back to work, then we could reopen tomorrow and sucks for whoever dies.




https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/21/trump-says-hes-aiming-shield-corporations-legal-liability-workers-who-contract-covid

Well looky here.

Called it.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26617041 - 04/21/20 08:08 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Under current law, you can't sue employers for injuries and illnesses sustained while on the job.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617043 - 04/21/20 08:09 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Even if your employer was negligent?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26617045 - 04/21/20 08:10 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)



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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26617047 - 04/21/20 08:11 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Yup.  There's a system in place called "Worker's Compensation" that handles all of that.  It's designed to be a more streamlined process than the court system.  It's not a great system, but it has it's benefits.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617076 - 04/21/20 08:26 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Seems to me that covid infections would fall into the "gross negligence" or "willful harm" category.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26617083 - 04/21/20 08:32 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I don't see how, unless an employer refuses to let employees wear masks.  Even then, it's a stretch.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: qman]
    #26617113 - 04/21/20 08:47 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I disagree with your original thesis, the economy isn't necessarily "fucked" if we wait this thing out and the government provides the proper resources to the working class during that process.  That's the narrative the billionaire class wants the peasants to think as their profits dry up, but that doesn't make it true.

It's truly amazing that the recent protests in the US isn't about The Elite getting trillions in free money for this crisis as the peasants are essentially getting zero. The protests are about the peasants demanding to risk their lives to pay their bills to benefit The Elite. We clearly have a country full of retarded people who love their oppressors.




This seems like a realistic way of looking at it :doublefacepalm:

I think it should reopen slowly, everyone working ESPECIALLY in food industry should have to wear masks, gloves.

Everyone should be wearing masks and gloves. And guess what? All transferable diseases will not spread as much from just doing only that.

Disinfecting things, wearing protection is common sense for cutting back the spread of All infectious disease.
Do you really want people breathing on your food anyways? Flu, cold, cock particulates, anything


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617269 - 04/21/20 09:45 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Looks like PA will start opening back up May 8th.

In Western PA COVID infections have been very low for the last 10 days. Testing has increased but the number of infected people remains low. Something like 7 new cases out of 200 tests, and 0 new hospitalizations. I am also (unfortunately) back at work. The hospital project that historically has been our largest continuous project received a waiver to restart construction. Interestingly, in a meeting with several executives and high managers, it was mentioned that the hospital is at 40% bed capacity currently, which is about half of what they normally run. So they are are losing their asses too, which I'm sure will result in even bigger jumps in health care prices. Sometimes it seems like health care providers have rigged the system (sigh).

I am looking forward to drinking a beer at a bar. Maybe eating some chicken wings. 17 days and counting.

In other news, a bunch retard survivalist white nationalists marched on the city court house with their guns complaining about their infringed freedoms. Of course it was obvious they were white nationalists because many of them wore patches and symbols indicating as much. I guess a month without breakfast at Denny's has finally broken that survivalist mentality.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26617310 - 04/21/20 10:00 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

@Majick

Masks and goggles are necessary, but not gloves. People wash their hands less often when wearing gloves, don't change them when needed and don't wash their gloves.

Gloves offer no protection from virus. It can as easily transfer virus as hands. Some grocery stores stopped allowing wearing gloves inside and forces people to wash hands.

To make it short, WEARING gloves isn't as safe as washing hands, but CHANGING gloves is pretty much the same as washing your hands.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617315 - 04/21/20 10:03 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Which, of course, begs the question: If your God is so strong, why is the U.S. leading the world in deaths and infections?





It made me wonder if their immigrant Christian forefathers who started this country  that they are always bringIng up in these rants , I guess cause they like to point out they come from immigrants , respected the religion of the people who were here before them  they way they want Muslims to .

  So wrote that in the comment section , it was the first comment , now I feel weird for talking shit to someone I haven’t seen in 20 years .


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26617323 - 04/21/20 10:06 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Never feel weird about talking shit.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MajickMuffin]
    #26617380 - 04/21/20 10:25 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Disinfecting things, wearing protection is common sense for cutting back the spread of All infectious disease.
Do you really want people breathing on your food anyways? Flu, cold, cock particulates, anything




  Isn’t this what people always said would create a super virus though . My kids haven’t  had a cold at anything in months , I don’t see that as a good thing .


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #26617400 - 04/21/20 10:33 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Nah, rampant abuse of antibiotics creates super viruses.

Things like alcohol, peroxide, and bleach are so incompatible with life as we know it that anything that becomes immune to them is going to be unable to infect us.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26617446 - 04/21/20 10:50 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Look at sweeden, they have done realitively nothing yet their death rate is on par with the lowest rates.

Now we have antibody tests we see that anywhere from 5-40% of the population has already been exposed and developed antibodies. Based on those numbers real mortality rate is 0.1-0.02% like a bad flu.

We were told we had to flatten the curve to keep the medical system from getting overwhelmed and we did just that. Sensible logic would say to open up and monitor the curve to make sure we are not headed towards overwhelming again. Instead they move the goal posts and now we need to get to zero and instead of slow the spread stop the spread. This is an unrealistic goal.

People talking about pumping money into the ecomony forget this is a zero sum game, the money comes from the taxpayers and future taxpayers, or the money is made up and inflation results.

This whole thing was a giant mistake. The economy is fucked already. Even if we open up now a percentage of business will be wiped away and their jobs too.

Dr. Fauci and Nancy Pelosi are not worried about their jobs when they call 22 million unemployed unfortunate and share their $24k refrigerators stocked with $13 a pint ice cream.  Americans are getting pink slips and she says let them eat cake


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26617483 - 04/21/20 11:07 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I saw an antibody study from California that placed the infection rates at something like 25 times to 50 times more than expected. Which, as you say, makes the mortality figures fall drastically. Any reasonable person already knew this was the case though.

The economy should bounce back. It may take a few years though.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26617510 - 04/21/20 11:14 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I makes me wish for the planet to design something more predictable, helpful and solid to replace ''the economy''


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26617512 - 04/21/20 11:16 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Eventually, such a system may be invented.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera]
    #26617522 - 04/21/20 11:23 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I think your argument that any reasonable person could have seen that the levels of population infection would be 25 to 50x higher is based on hindsight being 20/20. Otherwise you would also have to admit that the reasonable person would have been  known that we were overreacting or worse intentionally pushed false information to foment panic. Neither of those is likely. Sure some may have suspected this to be the case and said so, but they were being shouted down as irresponsible.

Reality is that we now have treatments that are lowering hospitilizations and the severity of hospitization. We didn't know that was going to the case and you would have to be a real gambler to take the risk that both of these things would be the case.

Now though we know more than we did then, of course we should be reevaluating based on new info


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26617539 - 04/21/20 11:34 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Eventually, such a system may be invented.



But would the ruling class eventually allow such a system to succeed?  I doubt it.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26617569 - 04/21/20 11:48 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

They wouldn't have a choice.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617578 - 04/21/20 11:52 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

The currently predominant economic systems rely on the very reliable human traits of greed and self preservation. Not sure how we get past that


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26617588 - 04/21/20 11:55 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

That is why we have the virus; gotta strike when the iron is hot.....if its going to happen in my lifetime it would start soon. But first, many more people need to die (insert some famine in there as well)......perfect opportunity.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26617605 - 04/21/20 12:01 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
I think your argument that any reasonable person could have seen that the levels of population infection would be 25 to 50x higher is based on hindsight being 20/20.

Now though we know more than we did then, of course we should be reevaluating based on new info





25 to 50x is based on hindsight, but I've been particularly consistent in that the case numbers are far greater than we are measuring. Its the only possible outcome.

Quote:

Otherwise you would also have to admit that the reasonable person would have been  known that we were overreacting or worse intentionally pushed false information to foment panic. Neither of those is likely. Sure some may have suspected this to be the case and said so, but they were being shouted down as irresponsible.




No, reason isn't exclusive of caution. I have said people should be cautious and that we should do what it takes to minimize hospital load, but still consistent in that the mortality rates are blown out of proportion. I was shouted down, I was banned from The Pub thread, meanwhile i was the only person citing a single damn thing I said. So you are right in that.

Quote:

Reality is that we now have treatments that are lowering hospitilizations and the severity of hospitization. We didn't know that was going to the case and you would have to be a real gambler to take the risk that both of these things would be the case.




If hospitalizations are lower, and the number of people infected far greater than were known, it just means that the percentage of change we imparted through those treatments is less significant. Not much we can do about that, but caution was a reasonable response. Buying up all the toilet paper was not a reasonable response.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617607 - 04/21/20 12:03 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Eventually, such a system may be invented.



But would the ruling class eventually allow such a system to succeed?  I doubt it.



They wouldn't have a choice.



The US always tries to stop alternative systems from succeeding.  I can't think of any examples where we didn't.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26617682 - 04/21/20 12:35 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Nah, rampant abuse of antibiotics creates super viruses.

Things like alcohol, peroxide, and bleach are so incompatible with life as we know it that anything that becomes immune to them is going to be unable to infect us.




Antibiotics have no effect on viruses.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26617780 - 04/21/20 01:15 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Yeast are known to infect humans and are immune to alcohol. Seriously, the whole post from Kryptos is just bs hahaha :lol:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo] * 1
    #26617950 - 04/21/20 02:23 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Nah, rampant abuse of antibiotics creates super viruses.

Things like alcohol, peroxide, and bleach are so incompatible with life as we know it that anything that becomes immune to them is going to be unable to infect us.




Antibiotics have no effect on viruses.




I misspoke. I meant super bugs, referring to antibiotic resistant bacterial infections.

Quote:

Daijo said:
Yeast are known to infect humans and are immune to alcohol. Seriously, the whole post from Kryptos is just bs hahaha :lol:




Source? I routinely kill yeast with alcohol. Occasionally with alcohol produced by the yeast itself.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26619371 - 04/22/20 06:06 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Yes, the resistant staph is the one I've heard the most about. There is a big problem with transmission while you're in the hospital.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620055 - 04/22/20 01:24 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Not really.  People aren't working now.  If they reopen, and people refuse to go back to work, those people are in exactly the same position as they were.  Ultimately, the decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to reopen.





The decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to fire people who refuse to risk their lives coming in to work, thus making them ineligible for unemployment benefits, thus putting those people in a much worse position than they were i.e. get sick at work, or get sick homeless on the street.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26620066 - 04/22/20 01:31 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

They have that option now.  Businesses don't make money by firing people, though.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620072 - 04/22/20 01:35 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

They don't make money on people who don't come into work either; Baby_Hitler's point.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26620116 - 04/22/20 02:06 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Yeah, so they'll hire different people.  Everyone wins.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26620123 - 04/22/20 02:11 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:


The decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to fire people who refuse to risk their lives coming in to work, thus making them ineligible for unemployment benefits, thus putting those people in a much worse position than they were i.e. get sick at work, or get sick homeless on the street.




Other side of that coin is that the business files bankruptcy and the person gets fired anyways


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26620126 - 04/22/20 02:13 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Yup.  Business need workers.  Workers need business.  If the workers can't perform for the business, the business needs to find others.  If the business can't meet the workers' needs, the workers need to find another business to work for.

Neither has any more power than the other.  Both are just trying to make it work.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620132 - 04/22/20 02:17 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, so they'll hire different people.  Everyone wins.



Not the person who refused to risk their life to work.

Quote:

Enlil said:
If the workers can't perform for the business, the business needs to find others.  If the business can't meet the workers' needs, the workers need to find another business to work for.

Neither has any more power than the other.  Both are just trying to make it work.



Normally true, but not with coronavirus.  The CEO can sit safely in his mansion and demand low level workers show up. Those who won't risk their life can't easily find another job right now.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26620141 - 04/22/20 02:21 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

What CEO?  What makes you assume there's a CEO or a mansion involved?  Most businesses are run by some dude just trying to make it work.  He doesn't have a mansion.  He can't afford to pay 10 people to not work.  He either gets his business open and running, or he goes out of business and likely loses his home. 

Everyone risks his/her life to work.  That's why people are paid to work.  Every human activity is a risk, and if I want someone to take a risk for me, I offer them money to do it.  If they don't think the money is worth the risk, they don't do it.  That's how the world works.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620214 - 04/22/20 03:00 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What CEO?  What makes you assume there's a CEO or a mansion involved?



What make you assume there's not?

Quote:

Enlil said:
Most businesses are run by some dude just trying to make it work.  He doesn't have a mansion.  He can't afford to pay 10 people to not work.  He either gets his business open and running, or he goes out of business and likely loses his home.



As I mentioned before, many other civilized countries have figured out how to make this work, but not the US.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Everyone risks his/her life to work.  That's why people are paid to work.  Every human activity is a risk, and if I want someone to take a risk for me, I offer them money to do it.  If they don't think the money is worth the risk, they don't do it.  That's how the world works.



What's the risk of dying from coronavirus?  I said the death rate was about 1.5 in 100, you said it was more.

Do you really think people should go to with that high a risk of dying?


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26620226 - 04/22/20 03:06 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

No, I think they'd be foolish to do so.  I also don't think that a business owner should have to pay them not to go to work.  Really, I think the government should cover those costs.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620355 - 04/22/20 03:53 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No, I think they'd be foolish to do so.  I also don't think that a business owner should have to pay them not to go to work.  Really, I think the government should cover those costs.



Exactly. If the government shut down businesses, the government should be ones compensating them.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26620361 - 04/22/20 03:54 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Yes, and the government should absolutely shut them down for now.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620561 - 04/22/20 05:07 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Cool, then we're all in agreement.  :thumbup:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26620574 - 04/22/20 05:11 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

It seems clear that taxpayer money should go back to taxpayer in a time of need like this one.

Not everyone realize the stimulus check is not a 'gift' of good will from the government. It's your own damn money you need to eat.

Americans should rebel.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26620581 - 04/22/20 05:13 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Daijo said:
It seems clear that taxpayer money should go back to taxpayer in a time of need like this one.

Not everyone realize the stimulus check is not a 'gift' of good will from the government. It's your own damn money you need to eat.

Americans should rebel.



Oh, they'll realize it when tax season rolls around


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26620586 - 04/22/20 05:14 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

That's not even close to a solution.  Half of the people in the U.S. don't pay any federal taxes.  They need the money the most, and they'd get nothing with your plan.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26620606 - 04/22/20 05:17 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's not even close to a solution.  Half of the people in the U.S. don't pay any federal taxes.  They need the money the most, and they'd get nothing with your plan.




What plan? I'm saying the government pays nothing out of it 'own' pocket. That's all. I'm not proposing anything. It's fact the stimulus checks come from American workers.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo] * 1
    #26620618 - 04/22/20 05:18 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Yeah, not really.  The stimulus checks come from the national debt.  In the end, they come from future generations.  If we had a balanced budget, what you said might make some sense.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo] * 1
    #26620628 - 04/22/20 05:21 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yup.  Business need workers.  Workers need business.  If the workers can't perform for the business, the business needs to find others.  If the business can't meet the workers' needs, the workers need to find another business to work for.

Neither has any more power than the other.  Both are just trying to make it work.



That's the thing that I think a lot of people are missing is that not only do people need their jobs but businesses need workers to fill those jobs and if we don't make it safe for people we're going to have one of two outcomes. 1 people realize right away what a giant mistake that it is do not just wait a little bit to get proper Protections in place. OR people will need the money so bad or think they need it so bad that they're willing to risk their lives. This will lead to those workers not only infecting customers, co workers but also their family and friends. If we do this wrong Mass amounts of people are going to die and the people that are staying safe are going to be in serious Danger even though they've been making dramatic sacrifices for the good of the country
Quote:

Daijo said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That's not even close to a solution.  Half of the people in the U.S. don't pay any federal taxes.  They need the money the most, and they'd get nothing with your plan.




What plan? I'm saying the government pays nothing out of it 'own' pocket. That's all. I'm not proposing anything. It's fact the stimulus checks come from American workers.




A lot of that money is either fiat currency or debt. It's all so inexcusable that we had hundreds of millions of dollars that were supposed to go to small businesses that ended up going to high-end steakhouses or giant companies like Shake Shack. Steve mnuchin actually went on TV the other day asking big companies to return their business loans for actual small businesses that need it. Total disaster when it comes to Distributing Aid to where it needs to go.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26620750 - 04/22/20 06:13 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, not really.  The stimulus checks come from the national debt.  In the end, they come from future generations.  If we had a balanced budget, what you said might make some sense.





Well, that's like saying you're not really paying stuff with your own money (using debit) if you have unpaid debt.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26620759 - 04/22/20 06:17 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

That's true if your kids are the ones who have to pay your debt, as is the case with the national debt.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620888 - 04/22/20 07:39 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's true if your kids are the ones who have to pay your debt, as is the case with the national debt.



Its a multi generational family debt


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621335 - 04/23/20 01:39 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They have that option now.  Businesses don't make money by firing people, though.





My understanding is that, during a shutdown, state governments pay unemploymnet.benefits. If the state ends the shutdown, the businesses either have to re-open, or pay the benefits themselves.

Therefore, ending a shutdown places the burden back onto businesses and their employees, and removes it from the state government.


Edited by Baby_Hitler (04/23/20 01:51 AM)


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26621614 - 04/23/20 06:30 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Your understanding is based on what you believe should happen.  There's no rulebook for this.  We are in unprecedented time.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26621619 - 04/23/20 06:34 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

That is exactly correct.

Part of why red states are trying to end shutdowns is to move the financial costs off of the state and onto the businesses.

If there is no state shutdown, then the business can theoretically be running at capacity, and therefore is not eligible for business interruption insurance. Similarly, their landlord can now demand full rent payments. Furloughed staff either comes back or unemployment goes on the business tab.

Basically, ending shutdowns takes all the responsibility off the states and puts it on the people.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26621625 - 04/23/20 06:41 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

That's a nice story, but it's just a story.  There's nothing stopping landlords from demanding full rent payments now.  As far as unemployment "going on the business tab," that's still a very real issue either way, but that won't matter when most of these businesses are going to be bankrupt anyway.

The truth is that we don't yet know who is going to pay for what.  Businesses harmed by the virus may or may not have insurance for that, regardless of whether there's a shutdown.  The Federal government can't mandate specific procedures to state unemployment systems, although it can provide funding with strings.  Each state ultimately has to decide how it will respond.

The move to end the shutdown has very little, if anything, to do with shifting the burden back to the people.  It's about fear.  A lot of people have an intense fear of the unknown, and the unknown now surrounds us.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621633 - 04/23/20 06:49 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I guess it's a Georgia-specific story.

I was paraphrasing a tweet from a restauranteur.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26621643 - 04/23/20 06:53 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

That restauranteur is likely just speaking from ignorance and fear as well.  We simply don't know who is going to have to pay for what at this point.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621653 - 04/23/20 07:00 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

My company is using the PPP loan we received to employ ungodly sums of people basically because the money will be forgiven. So I guess the tax payers are paying themselves and capitalists get off free of charge.

I'm hoping to get some "free" money from the EIDL Grant for my business once that second round of funding hits. Something like $3k. I'll use it to give my employees a cash bonus and to pay some payments on equipment. But again, that's just the tax payers paying me to pay the tax payers. My business is doing okay, I'm down maybe 40% where I should be, but I expect I'll make up for it come mid to late summer as inquiries remain high.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera]
    #26621689 - 04/23/20 07:29 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Some people really need the financial help. :shrug:
Not this guy though.:crankey:

"Nikola Motor Company, founded and run by billionaire Trevor Milton, received $4.1 million in Paycheck Protection Program funds."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-nikola-motor-received-4-million-from-ppp-small-business-fund.html

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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: vinsue]
    #26621749 - 04/23/20 08:02 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

There are going to be loads of cases like that once this all shakes out. The program wasn't all that well thought out and lots have taken advantage of that.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26623173 - 04/23/20 06:51 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Looks like at least half the money went to billionaires, but since there's no watchdog, that's just an estimate.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26623436 - 04/23/20 08:57 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Protesters are already starting to die unfortunately even though I strongly disagree with them I don't want anyone else to die that is avoidable and certainly spreading it to our family and friends is there a catastrophic concept. All the experts are saying that there's going to be a second wave and most are saying that it will be worse than what we've already gone through. So right now more than ever it is prudent to get things right before we open things back up.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26623509 - 04/23/20 09:46 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

We were just talking about that at work today.

Some people said they wanted to go to the bar. I don't think I'm gonna be going to a bar for the rest of the year, minimum.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26623834 - 04/24/20 02:54 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a nice story, but it's just a story.  There's nothing stopping landlords from demanding full rent payments now.  As far as unemployment "going on the business tab," that's still a very real issue either way, but that won't matter when most of these businesses are going to be bankrupt anyway.

The truth is that we don't yet know who is going to pay for what.  Businesses harmed by the virus may or may not have insurance for that, regardless of whether there's a shutdown.  The Federal government can't mandate specific procedures to state unemployment systems, although it can provide funding with strings.  Each state ultimately has to decide how it will respond.

The move to end the shutdown has very little, if anything, to do with shifting the burden back to the people.  It's about fear.  A lot of people have an intense fear of the unknown, and the unknown now surrounds us.




From what I have been reading, business insurance is refusing to pay. Go figure.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26623841 - 04/24/20 03:03 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
We were just talking about that at work today.

Some people said they wanted to go to the bar. I don't think I'm gonna be going to a bar for the rest of the year, minimum.




We can't go to the bar in Illinois. I really miss my joint. It sounds like the place will survive. I wouldn't really worry if it was open. It seems like I'm the only one there who doesn't do shots, because everyone keeps trying to buy me one. I'm no doctor, but it seems like enough alcohol would reduce transmission of the virus.

It did worry me the last weekend before the state shut down. I wondered what it would be like. My chick friends were hugging me and kissing me on the cheek, and I was thinking we really should hold off on this.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26624023 - 04/24/20 06:54 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Getting all the ladies! It's going to be very interesting to see the data in a year just to see how early it was actually getting passed around.

PA just moved the soft reopen from May 8 to May 1. Construction, car dealerships, and a bunch of other shit will be allowed to open as long as they follow CDC guidelines. Hospitalizations here have bottomed out with just 8 in the last week. Keep in mind Pittsburgh is in the second most populace county in Pennsylvania.

Fingers crossed for bars and restaurants to reopen mid May. I need a draught beer.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26624049 - 04/24/20 07:21 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:

From what I have been reading, business insurance is refusing to pay. Go figure.



Yup.  This is common when large catastrophes happen.  Insurance companies don't pay.  It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes down.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26624158 - 04/24/20 08:36 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Whats the legal rationale, act of god?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26624199 - 04/24/20 09:03 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Georgia is reopening certain businesses including massage parlors, if proper distancing is followed.


--------------------
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26624211 - 04/24/20 09:08 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)



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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26624223 - 04/24/20 09:14 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

From everything I have read, a second wave is inevitable. I guess a decision whether to keep people from getting sick or keeping people alive(those susceptible) will continue throughout 2020. Dude, this is gonna tap my reserve funds.....what a clusterfuck.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26624360 - 04/24/20 10:21 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I'd plan on a third wave as well, if I was you.

Actually, I'd plan on coronavirus becoming a seasonal thing. Flu season in the winter, Corona season in the summer.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26624977 - 04/24/20 02:52 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Yes Fauci predicts another wave in the fall. we are not out of this until they develop an effective vaccine.


--------------------
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26625454 - 04/24/20 07:00 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Leslie Nelson was one of the finest deadpan comedic genius. Police Squad as well. RIP


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26625475 - 04/24/20 07:14 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

*Nielsen


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26625639 - 04/24/20 08:15 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Got me twice in a short period of time....its been awhile. Always on
point.



--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (04/24/20 08:21 PM)


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26626366 - 04/25/20 06:34 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Leslie Nelson was one of the finest deadpan comedic genius. Police Squad as well. RIP




And Mrs. Elvis and O.J.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26626621 - 04/25/20 09:03 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Looks like at least half the money went to billionaires, but since there's no watchdog, that's just an estimate.



:fuckyeah:

Once all of that trickles down we're gonna be livin large!


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: feevers]
    #26626628 - 04/25/20 09:07 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

I wonder how much of that money will be invested directly into automating the jobs that can't work during quarantines. That'd be a good sell to shareholders right now


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26631088 - 04/26/20 11:56 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Oh no, the flu!


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26645347 - 05/03/20 07:18 AM (28 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I disagree with your original thesis, the economy isn't necessarily "fucked" if we wait this thing out and the government provides the proper resources to the working class during that process.  That's the narrative the billionaire class wants the peasants to think as their profits dry up, but that doesn't make it true.

It's truly amazing that the recent protests in the US isn't about The Elite getting trillions in free money for this crisis as the peasants are essentially getting zero. The protests are about the peasants demanding to risk their lives to pay their bills to benefit The Elite. We clearly have a country full of retarded people who love their oppressors.



Quote:

Enlil said:
This is, of course, the ultimate test.  If anything is going to bring the middle and lower classes to the breaking point, it's going to be this.  Economic inequality has been offset by the availability of cheap distractions for the masses.  Now, the masses are more restless than they've ever been and they're becoming more restless by the day.  In addition, the simple comforts that are so cheaply available in the U.S. are becoming less available and more unaffordable.

The time is ripe for a real social uprising, if not a violent one.  If the elite don't see that and do something to assuage the masses, we might just see some real change in the U.S.




I would like to think so, but realistically I don't think it will happen. Hitting the streets won't be enough. That took years with Viet Nam, and those stakes weren't as important as this.

It would take a general strike, and Americans are so ideologically brainwashed to think they are individualistic, and under current conditions there is no way to feed and house workers during a strike. Not with unionization at 11.3%.

If Corona had hit hard before Super Tuesday, we might have had our FDR. Instead we have Bozo I and Bozo II.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26645394 - 05/03/20 07:50 AM (28 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

The time is ripe for a real social uprising, if not a violent one.  If the elite don't see that and do something to assuage the masses, we might just see some real change in the U.S.




This 100%


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: oculodextro] * 2
    #26649055 - 05/04/20 07:55 PM (27 days, 7 hours ago)

This could be the first real crack at UBI and proper health care for the U.S.. And, well, UBI for places that already have decent health care.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera] * 5
    #26655669 - 05/07/20 05:50 PM (24 days, 9 hours ago)

stay closed forever.
since the masks came out i havent had anyone with meth breath assault me.
the streets are like ghost towns. the cops have vanished.
peace and quiet, its good times.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: panne cyanne]
    #26669633 - 05/13/20 10:54 PM (18 days, 4 hours ago)

Senator Richard Burr was subject to a search warrant and had a device seized by the FBI today. Probably related to his insider trading.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-05-13/fbi-serves-warrant-on-senator-stock-investigation


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: koods] * 1
    #26670084 - 05/14/20 06:32 AM (17 days, 20 hours ago)

They should nab Feinstein's phone as well.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: koods]
    #26670429 - 05/14/20 11:12 AM (17 days, 15 hours ago)

Looks like homeboy Burr stepped away from Intel committee.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26670922 - 05/14/20 03:49 PM (17 days, 11 hours ago)

Conservative crickets.....


--------------------
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26670955 - 05/14/20 04:08 PM (17 days, 10 hours ago)

No seriously though all I want to see is people wearing masks. I want people all be on board with the reality that this is not only real but if all mitigation orders are followed we are still looking at more outbreaks and staggering deaths in the fall. Now that some people are opening up before they meet trumps own guidelines are setting everyone back not just sickness and death wise but econically if we jump the gun before cases decline and they move through the proper phases it economically will cause quarantine measures to be not only extended by opening faster then the guidelines permit but it'll force our hand into a true lockdown like Italy had to do with forms to go get medicine or groceries.

So instead of having that it'd be nice for people to take this seriously and with great respect to what scientists say will happen. There's many ways businesses can adapt around the country to keep people as safe as possible and I have seen some people breaking the order but also make sure to adhere to strict guidelines and I support them in reopening for the most part because they are hurting but also doing everything they can to protect customers and employees. I will say one thing we do need just stop looking at this as do we close the economy or open it. That is not what's going on here, we need to find ways to reopen in the safest way possible.


--------------------
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ShLong
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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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Invisiblepanne cyanne
albino queen
Female

Registered: 04/15/20
Posts: 81
Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26671052 - 05/14/20 04:55 PM (17 days, 10 hours ago)

everyone in masks all the time and gloves.
what a great way to start a biometric police state.

clearly all are leaders are morons.
protect yourself as stupidity and failure is guranteed.

im loving the halloween year round thing on masks.


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