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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26620361 - 04/22/20 05:54 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Yes, and the government should absolutely shut them down for now.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620561 - 04/22/20 07:07 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Cool, then we're all in agreement.  :thumbup:


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OfflineDaijo
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26620574 - 04/22/20 07:11 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

It seems clear that taxpayer money should go back to taxpayer in a time of need like this one.

Not everyone realize the stimulus check is not a 'gift' of good will from the government. It's your own damn money you need to eat.

Americans should rebel.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26620581 - 04/22/20 07:13 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Daijo said:
It seems clear that taxpayer money should go back to taxpayer in a time of need like this one.

Not everyone realize the stimulus check is not a 'gift' of good will from the government. It's your own damn money you need to eat.

Americans should rebel.



Oh, they'll realize it when tax season rolls around


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26620586 - 04/22/20 07:14 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

That's not even close to a solution.  Half of the people in the U.S. don't pay any federal taxes.  They need the money the most, and they'd get nothing with your plan.


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OfflineDaijo
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26620606 - 04/22/20 07:17 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's not even close to a solution.  Half of the people in the U.S. don't pay any federal taxes.  They need the money the most, and they'd get nothing with your plan.




What plan? I'm saying the government pays nothing out of it 'own' pocket. That's all. I'm not proposing anything. It's fact the stimulus checks come from American workers.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo] * 1
    #26620618 - 04/22/20 07:18 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Yeah, not really.  The stimulus checks come from the national debt.  In the end, they come from future generations.  If we had a balanced budget, what you said might make some sense.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo] * 1
    #26620628 - 04/22/20 07:21 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yup.  Business need workers.  Workers need business.  If the workers can't perform for the business, the business needs to find others.  If the business can't meet the workers' needs, the workers need to find another business to work for.

Neither has any more power than the other.  Both are just trying to make it work.



That's the thing that I think a lot of people are missing is that not only do people need their jobs but businesses need workers to fill those jobs and if we don't make it safe for people we're going to have one of two outcomes. 1 people realize right away what a giant mistake that it is do not just wait a little bit to get proper Protections in place. OR people will need the money so bad or think they need it so bad that they're willing to risk their lives. This will lead to those workers not only infecting customers, co workers but also their family and friends. If we do this wrong Mass amounts of people are going to die and the people that are staying safe are going to be in serious Danger even though they've been making dramatic sacrifices for the good of the country
Quote:

Daijo said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That's not even close to a solution.  Half of the people in the U.S. don't pay any federal taxes.  They need the money the most, and they'd get nothing with your plan.




What plan? I'm saying the government pays nothing out of it 'own' pocket. That's all. I'm not proposing anything. It's fact the stimulus checks come from American workers.




A lot of that money is either fiat currency or debt. It's all so inexcusable that we had hundreds of millions of dollars that were supposed to go to small businesses that ended up going to high-end steakhouses or giant companies like Shake Shack. Steve mnuchin actually went on TV the other day asking big companies to return their business loans for actual small businesses that need it. Total disaster when it comes to Distributing Aid to where it needs to go.


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OfflineDaijo
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26620750 - 04/22/20 08:13 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, not really.  The stimulus checks come from the national debt.  In the end, they come from future generations.  If we had a balanced budget, what you said might make some sense.





Well, that's like saying you're not really paying stuff with your own money (using debit) if you have unpaid debt.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo]
    #26620759 - 04/22/20 08:17 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

That's true if your kids are the ones who have to pay your debt, as is the case with the national debt.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620888 - 04/22/20 09:39 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's true if your kids are the ones who have to pay your debt, as is the case with the national debt.



Its a multi generational family debt


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621335 - 04/23/20 03:39 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They have that option now.  Businesses don't make money by firing people, though.





My understanding is that, during a shutdown, state governments pay unemploymnet.benefits. If the state ends the shutdown, the businesses either have to re-open, or pay the benefits themselves.

Therefore, ending a shutdown places the burden back onto businesses and their employees, and removes it from the state government.


Edited by Baby_Hitler (04/23/20 03:51 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26621614 - 04/23/20 08:30 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Your understanding is based on what you believe should happen.  There's no rulebook for this.  We are in unprecedented time.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26621619 - 04/23/20 08:34 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

That is exactly correct.

Part of why red states are trying to end shutdowns is to move the financial costs off of the state and onto the businesses.

If there is no state shutdown, then the business can theoretically be running at capacity, and therefore is not eligible for business interruption insurance. Similarly, their landlord can now demand full rent payments. Furloughed staff either comes back or unemployment goes on the business tab.

Basically, ending shutdowns takes all the responsibility off the states and puts it on the people.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26621625 - 04/23/20 08:41 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

That's a nice story, but it's just a story.  There's nothing stopping landlords from demanding full rent payments now.  As far as unemployment "going on the business tab," that's still a very real issue either way, but that won't matter when most of these businesses are going to be bankrupt anyway.

The truth is that we don't yet know who is going to pay for what.  Businesses harmed by the virus may or may not have insurance for that, regardless of whether there's a shutdown.  The Federal government can't mandate specific procedures to state unemployment systems, although it can provide funding with strings.  Each state ultimately has to decide how it will respond.

The move to end the shutdown has very little, if anything, to do with shifting the burden back to the people.  It's about fear.  A lot of people have an intense fear of the unknown, and the unknown now surrounds us.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621633 - 04/23/20 08:49 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

I guess it's a Georgia-specific story.

I was paraphrasing a tweet from a restauranteur.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26621643 - 04/23/20 08:53 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

That restauranteur is likely just speaking from ignorance and fear as well.  We simply don't know who is going to have to pay for what at this point.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621653 - 04/23/20 09:00 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

My company is using the PPP loan we received to employ ungodly sums of people basically because the money will be forgiven. So I guess the tax payers are paying themselves and capitalists get off free of charge.

I'm hoping to get some "free" money from the EIDL Grant for my business once that second round of funding hits. Something like $3k. I'll use it to give my employees a cash bonus and to pay some payments on equipment. But again, that's just the tax payers paying me to pay the tax payers. My business is doing okay, I'm down maybe 40% where I should be, but I expect I'll make up for it come mid to late summer as inquiries remain high.


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: christopera]
    #26621689 - 04/23/20 09:29 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Some people really need the financial help. :shrug:
Not this guy though.:crankey:

"Nikola Motor Company, founded and run by billionaire Trevor Milton, received $4.1 million in Paycheck Protection Program funds."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-nikola-motor-received-4-million-from-ppp-small-business-fund.html

:shitbird: . . . :peace:


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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: vinsue]
    #26621749 - 04/23/20 10:02 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

There are going to be loads of cases like that once this all shakes out. The program wasn't all that well thought out and lots have taken advantage of that.


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