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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26617569 - 04/21/20 01:48 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

They wouldn't have a choice.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617578 - 04/21/20 01:52 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

The currently predominant economic systems rely on the very reliable human traits of greed and self preservation. Not sure how we get past that


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26617588 - 04/21/20 01:55 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

That is why we have the virus; gotta strike when the iron is hot.....if its going to happen in my lifetime it would start soon. But first, many more people need to die (insert some famine in there as well)......perfect opportunity.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26617605 - 04/21/20 02:01 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
I think your argument that any reasonable person could have seen that the levels of population infection would be 25 to 50x higher is based on hindsight being 20/20.

Now though we know more than we did then, of course we should be reevaluating based on new info





25 to 50x is based on hindsight, but I've been particularly consistent in that the case numbers are far greater than we are measuring. Its the only possible outcome.

Quote:

Otherwise you would also have to admit that the reasonable person would have been  known that we were overreacting or worse intentionally pushed false information to foment panic. Neither of those is likely. Sure some may have suspected this to be the case and said so, but they were being shouted down as irresponsible.




No, reason isn't exclusive of caution. I have said people should be cautious and that we should do what it takes to minimize hospital load, but still consistent in that the mortality rates are blown out of proportion. I was shouted down, I was banned from The Pub thread, meanwhile i was the only person citing a single damn thing I said. So you are right in that.

Quote:

Reality is that we now have treatments that are lowering hospitilizations and the severity of hospitization. We didn't know that was going to the case and you would have to be a real gambler to take the risk that both of these things would be the case.




If hospitalizations are lower, and the number of people infected far greater than were known, it just means that the percentage of change we imparted through those treatments is less significant. Not much we can do about that, but caution was a reasonable response. Buying up all the toilet paper was not a reasonable response.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26617607 - 04/21/20 02:03 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Eventually, such a system may be invented.



But would the ruling class eventually allow such a system to succeed?  I doubt it.



They wouldn't have a choice.



The US always tries to stop alternative systems from succeeding.  I can't think of any examples where we didn't.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26617682 - 04/21/20 02:35 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Nah, rampant abuse of antibiotics creates super viruses.

Things like alcohol, peroxide, and bleach are so incompatible with life as we know it that anything that becomes immune to them is going to be unable to infect us.




Antibiotics have no effect on viruses.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineDaijo
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26617780 - 04/21/20 03:15 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Yeast are known to infect humans and are immune to alcohol. Seriously, the whole post from Kryptos is just bs hahaha :lol:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Daijo] * 1
    #26617950 - 04/21/20 04:23 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Nah, rampant abuse of antibiotics creates super viruses.

Things like alcohol, peroxide, and bleach are so incompatible with life as we know it that anything that becomes immune to them is going to be unable to infect us.




Antibiotics have no effect on viruses.




I misspoke. I meant super bugs, referring to antibiotic resistant bacterial infections.

Quote:

Daijo said:
Yeast are known to infect humans and are immune to alcohol. Seriously, the whole post from Kryptos is just bs hahaha :lol:




Source? I routinely kill yeast with alcohol. Occasionally with alcohol produced by the yeast itself.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26619371 - 04/22/20 08:06 AM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Yes, the resistant staph is the one I've heard the most about. There is a big problem with transmission while you're in the hospital.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620055 - 04/22/20 03:24 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Not really.  People aren't working now.  If they reopen, and people refuse to go back to work, those people are in exactly the same position as they were.  Ultimately, the decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to reopen.





The decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to fire people who refuse to risk their lives coming in to work, thus making them ineligible for unemployment benefits, thus putting those people in a much worse position than they were i.e. get sick at work, or get sick homeless on the street.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26620066 - 04/22/20 03:31 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

They have that option now.  Businesses don't make money by firing people, though.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620072 - 04/22/20 03:35 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

They don't make money on people who don't come into work either; Baby_Hitler's point.


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26620116 - 04/22/20 04:06 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Yeah, so they'll hire different people.  Everyone wins.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #26620123 - 04/22/20 04:11 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:


The decision to reopen is really the decision to ALLOW businesses to fire people who refuse to risk their lives coming in to work, thus making them ineligible for unemployment benefits, thus putting those people in a much worse position than they were i.e. get sick at work, or get sick homeless on the street.




Other side of that coin is that the business files bankruptcy and the person gets fired anyways


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26620126 - 04/22/20 04:13 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Yup.  Business need workers.  Workers need business.  If the workers can't perform for the business, the business needs to find others.  If the business can't meet the workers' needs, the workers need to find another business to work for.

Neither has any more power than the other.  Both are just trying to make it work.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620132 - 04/22/20 04:17 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, so they'll hire different people.  Everyone wins.



Not the person who refused to risk their life to work.

Quote:

Enlil said:
If the workers can't perform for the business, the business needs to find others.  If the business can't meet the workers' needs, the workers need to find another business to work for.

Neither has any more power than the other.  Both are just trying to make it work.



Normally true, but not with coronavirus.  The CEO can sit safely in his mansion and demand low level workers show up. Those who won't risk their life can't easily find another job right now.


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26620141 - 04/22/20 04:21 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

What CEO?  What makes you assume there's a CEO or a mansion involved?  Most businesses are run by some dude just trying to make it work.  He doesn't have a mansion.  He can't afford to pay 10 people to not work.  He either gets his business open and running, or he goes out of business and likely loses his home. 

Everyone risks his/her life to work.  That's why people are paid to work.  Every human activity is a risk, and if I want someone to take a risk for me, I offer them money to do it.  If they don't think the money is worth the risk, they don't do it.  That's how the world works.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620214 - 04/22/20 05:00 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What CEO?  What makes you assume there's a CEO or a mansion involved?



What make you assume there's not?

Quote:

Enlil said:
Most businesses are run by some dude just trying to make it work.  He doesn't have a mansion.  He can't afford to pay 10 people to not work.  He either gets his business open and running, or he goes out of business and likely loses his home.



As I mentioned before, many other civilized countries have figured out how to make this work, but not the US.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Everyone risks his/her life to work.  That's why people are paid to work.  Every human activity is a risk, and if I want someone to take a risk for me, I offer them money to do it.  If they don't think the money is worth the risk, they don't do it.  That's how the world works.



What's the risk of dying from coronavirus?  I said the death rate was about 1.5 in 100, you said it was more.

Do you really think people should go to with that high a risk of dying?


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26620226 - 04/22/20 05:06 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

No, I think they'd be foolish to do so.  I also don't think that a business owner should have to pay them not to go to work.  Really, I think the government should cover those costs.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: How many of you want to reopen the US ASAP? [Re: Enlil]
    #26620355 - 04/22/20 05:53 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No, I think they'd be foolish to do so.  I also don't think that a business owner should have to pay them not to go to work.  Really, I think the government should cover those costs.



Exactly. If the government shut down businesses, the government should be ones compensating them.


--------------------
Obviously you don't know who the fuck I am. The names Cyrus, CYRUS. And I don't give a fuck who you are

Iam delusional and like to post fictional statements and nothing I say should be taken seriously


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