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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil]
#26605859 - 04/16/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I get it. Technically the cases for the Concord employees and the Internet Research Agency (IRA) are still open.
But if they can't get the parent company, how do you think they can get anyone working for Concord? If any one of those others are guilty, then Concord should have been found guilty.
I'm looking at the big picture. You're arguing a legal technicality.
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26605864 - 04/16/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not at all. I've seen no evidence that these people even worked for Concord. As far as I know, you just made that up. This is not a technicality. There is a felony case against Russian agents. Pretending there isn't one doesn't change that.
Also, I don't know why you think an employer is criminally liable for crimes committed by employees.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil] 1
#26605919 - 04/16/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Here is a .pdf of the indictment in that case:
Wrong indictment. That was for the DNC server hack.
Here is the one for election interference
Quote:
Defendant INTERNET RESEARCH AGENCY LLC (“ORGANIZATION”) is a Russian organization engaged in operations to interfere with elections and political processes. Defendants MIKHAIL IVANOVICH BYSTROV, MIKHAIL LEONIDOVICH BURCHIK, ALEKSANDRA YURYEVNA KRYLOVA, ANNA VLADISLAVOVNA BOGACHEVA, SERGEY PAVLOVICH POLOZOV, MARIA ANATOLYEVNA BOVDA, ROBERT SERGEYEVICH BOVDA, DZHEYKHUN NASIMI OGLY ASLANOV, VADIM VLADIMIROVICH PODKOPAEV, GLEB IGOREVICH VASILCHENKO, IRINA VIKTOROVNA KAVERZINA, and VLADIMIR VENKOV worked in various capacities to carry out Defendant ORGANIZATION’s interference operations targeting the United States.
Defendant ORGANIZATION received funding for its operations from Defendant YEVGENIY VIKTOROVICH PRIGOZHIN and companies he controlled, including Defendants CONCORD MANAGEMENT AND CONSULTING LLC and CONCORD CATERING (collectively “CONCORD”).
Quote:
Enlil said: I've seen no evidence that these people even worked for Concord. As far as I know, you just made that up.
See underlined portions of the indictment above.
Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know why you think an employer is criminally liable for crimes committed by employees.
Because the indictment is against the ORGANIZATION for election interference. The employees are just people who worked "to carry out Defendant ORGANIZATION’s interference operations".
I hope you're up to speed now.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#26605958 - 04/16/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you guys think it's ok to conduct investigations into people* just because you don't like them, then we'll have to disagree. If you guys think there was enough evidence to start an investigation, people intimately familiar with the case say the Russia probe was started 'without any basis'.
*Unless their last name is biden
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: koods]
#26606039 - 04/16/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Even if their last name is Biden.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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feldman114
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26606251 - 04/16/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you go on a witch hunt, catch actual witches and prove they were practicing black magic in court, then you could start calling the Russia probe a “witch hunt”. That, or if you choose to lie to yourself.
Imagine Hunter Biden meets with a North Korean lawyer with known connections to the govt. So they meet at a hotel owned by Biden, and later it turns out they were discussing the US sanctions on North Korea. Go ahead, tell me you wouldn’t think that needs to be investigated....
Btw, that’s just a tiny part of the “hunches”
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26606324 - 04/16/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's the wrong indictment because you don't want to talk about it. The indictment I posted specifically states it's related to election interference and that case is still pending. What part of 12 Russian agents facing criminal prosecution for crimes related to election interference is unclear to you? Those aren't even the same people as the other indictment. How do you know these people worked for Concord at all?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: feldman114]
#26606385 - 04/16/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: If you go on a witch hunt, catch actual witches and prove they were practicing black magic in court, then you could start calling the Russia probe a “witch hunt”. That, or if you choose to lie to yourself.
I don't think you don't understand what 'witch hunt' means. It's not looking for actual witches.
Quote:
feldman114 said: Imagine Hunter Biden meets with a North Korean lawyer with known connections to the govt. So they meet at a hotel owned by Biden, and later it turns out they were discussing the US sanctions on North Korea. Go ahead, tell me you wouldn’t think that needs to be investigated....
Politicians often ask foreigners for dirt on opponents. Hillary did this with the Steele Dossier.
Why should we be more suspicious when Trump does it?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26606393 - 04/16/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Politicians often ask foreigners for dirt on opponents. Hillary did this with the Steele Dossier.
We're talking about the Steele Dossier, that was originally started at the request and expense of the Washington Free Beacon, an openly partisan conservative website?
Edited by Kryptos (04/16/20 06:30 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26606414 - 04/16/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I've seen no evidence that these people even worked for Concord. As far as I know, you just made that up.
See underlined portions of the indictment above.
Those aren't the same people at all. Do you have any evidence that any of the people in the indictment I posted ever worked for Concord?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil]
#26606421 - 04/16/20 06:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It's the wrong indictment because you don't want to talk about it. The indictment I posted specifically states it's related to election interference and that case is still pending. What part of 12 Russian agents facing criminal prosecution for crimes related to election interference is unclear to you?
Wrong, we can talk about it. As I've pointed out before, there is more evidence that Seth Rich leaked the emails to Wikileaks than there is Russia did. Granted that doesn't prove it was Seth Rich, but it's more evidence than what Mueller's been able to come up with.
Since we know there was no finding of collusion in the Mueller report, and since we know the first indictment above was bullshit, and since we know Mueller lied about WMDs, why are you trusting this indictment?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Kryptos]
#26606423 - 04/16/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Politicians often ask foreigners for dirt on opponents. Hillary did this with the Steele Dossier.
We're talking about the Steele Dossier, that was originally started at the request and expense of the Washington Free Beacon, an openly partisan conservative website?
Yes, that one.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26606434 - 04/16/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: why are you trusting this indictment?
I don't trust any indictment. That's not the point. You claimed that it was "over" and that the election interference cases were dropped. That claim was untrue. There is still an active criminal case against Russian agents for election interference. Whether they would/will be convicted is another issue, and of course innocent until proven guilty...but you aren't in a position to say what is and isn't accurate in that indictment or what evidence the government has in that case.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil]
#26606453 - 04/16/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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The first indictment fell apart when it was challenged in a US court. The other indictment, whether phony or not, is still active as it hasn't been challenged it in court. I think we both know the evidence is severely lacking.
You'll concede to the war, but you want the battle. Fine.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26606483 - 04/16/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The first indictment fell apart when it was challenged in a US court.
Let me help you out here, because you seem to be woefully misinformed. first, that indictment didn't "fall apart when it was challenged in a US court." In fact, that indictment is still very much pending. The only part of that indictment that was dismissed are the claims against the Concord Defendants, which are the two foreign companies. The rest of the indictment is very much still active.
Further, the concord defendants were not dismissed by the court pursuant to some motion by those defendant. Instead, the prosecutor realized that challenging jurisdiction would delay the trial even further. This, coupled with the fact that the foreign corporation could not really be meaningfully punished made for a waste of money and time.
Now, I don't expect you to take my word for it. Read the attached PDF of the motion, by the government, to dismiss the counts against those two defendants.
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Kryptos
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil]
#26606699 - 04/16/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Instead, the prosecutor realized that challenging jurisdiction would delay the trial even further. This, coupled with the fact that the foreign corporation could not really be meaningfully punished made for a waste of money and time.
Anecdotally, this is the reason that I am not currently sitting in a Russian jail for desertion.
EDIT: It would probably be more accurate to say "not tied up in years of court proceedings while I reconciled US and Russian bureaucracy". There's no way they'd actually send me to prison.
Edited by Kryptos (04/16/20 08:53 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil]
#26606722 - 04/16/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The first indictment fell apart when it was challenged in a US court.
Let me help you out here, because you seem to be woefully misinformed. first, that indictment didn't "fall apart when it was challenged in a US court." In fact, that indictment is still very much pending. The only part of that indictment that was dismissed are the claims against the Concord Defendants, which are the two foreign companies. The rest of the indictment is very much still active.
I get it. But what you don't seem to get is that Concord funded and was responsible for the whole operation, and if Concord is off the hook, then logically everyone that worked under Concord is off the hook. Maybe not legally, as you said, but certainly logically.
Quote:
Enlil said: Further, the concord defendants were not dismissed by the court pursuant to some motion by those defendant. Instead, the prosecutor realized that challenging jurisdiction would delay the trial even further. This, coupled with the fact that the foreign corporation could not really be meaningfully punished made for a waste of money and time.
It took them how long and how much wasted money to finally come to this realization? How much money do you think it would have been worth for the US to find Russia guilty? A LOT more than this case would have cost, that's for damned sure.
While koods may be king of make believe, you're king of the gullible. I won the bet that everyone chickened out from taking.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26606733 - 04/16/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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They can't find Russia guilty, dude. Russia isn't a defendant and is a sovereign nation.
Today, there are still 25 Russian citizens facing criminal charges between those two cases. That's a fact readily verified by public record.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Enlil]
#26606750 - 04/16/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe legally Russia wouldn't have lost, but the media would have pushed that story, and that's the whole reason there was even an indictment against the troll farm.
If you paid any attention to the facts, like I did, you'd know the troll farm would have won any case against them.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: dumpy wants to adjourn congress to appoint his cronies [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26606764 - 04/16/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I haven't said anything about any troll farm.
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