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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26606223 - 04/16/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Effects of resistant starch interventions on circulating inflammatory biomarkers: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials

Overall, 13 studies with 14 effect sizes met the inclusion criteria and were included in the final analysis. Sample size of these studies ranged from 15 to 75 and intervention duration ranged from 4 to 14 weeks. Meta-analysis revealed that higher consumption of resistant starch caused a significant reduction in the interleukin 6 (weighted mean difference = − 1.11 pg/mL; 95% CI: − 1.72, − 0.5 pg/mL; P = < 0.001) and tumor necrosis factor alpha (weighted mean difference = − 2.19 pg/mL; 95% CI: − 3.49, − 0.9 pg/mL; P = 0.001) levels. However, no significant changes were found in C-reactive protein concentration (weighted mean difference = − 0.21 mg/L; 95% CI: − 1.06, 0.63 mg/L; P = 0.61). Moreover, the changes in interleukin 6 concentration was dependent on study quality and intervention duration.




Good since elevated levels of those chemicals are predictive of poor outcome

oats, beans/lentils, potatoes


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Niffla]
    #26606231 - 04/16/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Seriously though I totally understand. I've been one of the lucky ones I guess because I still got a job. There's only so long people are going to want to wait. This transcends stupid ass politics and race and gender and all that shit. There's a whole lot of people out there who live check to check and are in dire straits right now. Even if ill advised, people are desperate and of course they want to get back to work so they can start making money again.



The problem is we began shutting things down under the assumption that our resource capacity would be exceeded like in Italy.

New York hasnt experienced that. We have indeed increased our medical capacity since the beggining of the shutdown. 

so if this is no longer about keeping the number of cases manageable then the only reason for a shutdown would be to prevent people from getting it at all until there is a vaccine which could be 18 months away. nobody wants the shutdown to last that long and that would be devastating.

I'll gladly follow the rules while we are gathering data but if I am not even told what the purpose of locking down is, let alone criterea for when we can reopen things I'm going to get fed up real soon.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (04/16/20 05:18 PM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26606245 - 04/16/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


Thr problem is we began shutting things down under the assumption that our resource capacity would be exceeded like in Italy.

New York hasnt experienced that.




Why do you think that is the case...?


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InvisibleNiffla
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Registered: 06/09/08
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26606254 - 04/16/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
until there is a vaccine which could be 18 months away. nobody wants the shutdown to last that long and that would be devastating.




I think they'd literally have to shoot people in the streets if they told them that shit's going to be shut down for the next year and a half. There would be riots and lots and lots of

:angrymob:

Shoot people are already starting to get pissed and we're only like barely a month into this.


--------------------


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26606269 - 04/16/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:


Thr problem is we began shutting things down under the assumption that our resource capacity would be exceeded like in Italy.

New York hasnt experienced that.




Why do you think that is the case...?



I havent heard of anyone in New York who needed a ventilator going without one and now even Cuomo who was super worried is talking about reopening, saying the worst is over.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26606278 - 04/16/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

:facepalm:
L


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26606279 - 04/16/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
Seriously though I totally understand. I've been one of the lucky ones I guess because I still got a job. There's only so long people are going to want to wait. This transcends stupid ass politics and race and gender and all that shit. There's a whole lot of people out there who live check to check and are in dire straits right now. Even if ill advised, people are desperate and of course they want to get back to work so they can start making money again.



Thr problem is we began shutting things down under the assumption that our resource capacity would be exceeded like in Italy.

New York hasnt experienced that. We have indeed increased our medical capacity since the beggining of the shutdown. 

so if this is no longer about keeping the number of cases manageable then the only reason for a shutdown would be to prevent people from getting it at all until there is a vaccine which could be 18 months away. nobody wants the shutdown to last that long and that would be devastating




There are plenty of parts of the country that wouldn't have the infrastructure or staffing to handle it though. Pretty much no where had enough PPE at first, and that's with the shutdown. There are still places close to running out of meds needed for vents and other resources.

They're going to open things up again and people are still going to die, but if it's done right the damage and trauma should be far less. Everybody getting sick all at once would be an absolute nightmare of a situation, no one would go to work anyway when they're passing ambulance after ambulance on their commute, people they know are dying and everyone around them is coughing. The panic and the sky high death rates from a swamped medical system might cause a pretty similar economic situation to what we're seeing now.

Hopefully they throw us a more realistic stimulus, keep expanding unemployment and get more money to the small businesses. Unfortunately the brunt of the "help" is going to the corporate backers of politicians


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26606280 - 04/16/20 05:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/coronavirus-destroys-lungs-but-doctors-are-finding-its-damage-in-kidneys-hearts-and-elsewhere/?\

Coronavirus destroys lungs. But doctors are finding its damage in kidneys, hearts and elsewhere.
Quote:


But clinicians around the world are seeing evidence that suggests the virus also may be causing heart inflammation, acute kidney disease, neurological malfunction, blood clots, intestinal damage and liver problems. That development has complicated treatment for the most severe cases of covid-19, the illness caused by the virus, and makes the course of recovery less certain, they said.

The prevalence of these effects is too great to attribute them solely to the “cytokine storm,” a powerful immune-system response that attacks the body, causing severe damage, doctors and researchers said.

Almost half the people hospitalized because of covid-19 have blood or protein in their urine, indicating early damage to their kidneys, said Alan Kliger, a Yale University School of Medicine nephrologist who co-chairs a task force assisting dialysis patients who have covid-19...

“They seem to be doing really well as far as respiratory status goes, and then suddenly they develop a cardiac issue that seems out of proportion to their respiratory issues,” said Mitchell Elkind, a Columbia University neurologist and president-elect of the American Heart Association. “This seems to be out of proportion to their lung disease, which makes people wonder about that direct effect.”...

In some severely ill covid-19 patients, doctors have found high levels of a pro-inflammatory cytokine called interleukin-6, known by the medical shorthand IL-6...

To treat cytokine storms, some doctors are using anti-IL-6 drugs such as tocilizumab, which is approved for cancer patients who develop cytokine storms as a result of immunotherapy...

“The coronavirus can actually attack and invade olfactory nerve endings,” Hopkins said. When these aroma-detecting fibers are disrupted, they can’t send odors to the brain...






this virus is a motherfucker.



MSNBC just stated that they are "receiving reports that an experimental drug from Gilead is working". No report though, and they did not mention the name which is interesting. They are referring to remdesivir.


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InvisibleNiffla
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Registered: 06/09/08
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: feevers]
    #26606308 - 04/16/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:


Everybody getting sick all at once would be an absolute nightmare of a situation




Yeah if they/we don't pull of the "reopening", whenever that may be -- correctly, it will be absolutely devastating.

If this country is faced with another shutdown after a second wave then it would be disastrous. I mean it's already disastrous as far as the economy is concerned but a second would just be a death blow.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26606311 - 04/16/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
Seriously though I totally understand. I've been one of the lucky ones I guess because I still got a job. There's only so long people are going to want to wait. This transcends stupid ass politics and race and gender and all that shit. There's a whole lot of people out there who live check to check and are in dire straits right now. Even if ill advised, people are desperate and of course they want to get back to work so they can start making money again.



Thr problem is we began shutting things down under the assumption that our resource capacity would be exceeded like in Italy.

New York hasnt experienced that. We have indeed increased our medical capacity since the beggining of the shutdown. 

so if this is no longer about keeping the number of cases manageable then the only reason for a shutdown would be to prevent people from getting it at all until there is a vaccine which could be 18 months away. nobody wants the shutdown to last that long and that would be devastating




There are plenty of parts of the country that wouldn't have the infrastructure or staffing to handle it though. Pretty much no where had enough PPE at first, and that's with the shutdown. There are still places close to running out of meds needed for vents and other resources.

They're going to open things up again and people are still going to die, but if it's done right the damage and trauma should be far less. Everybody getting sick all at once would be an absolute nightmare of a situation, no one would go to work anyway when they're passing ambulance after ambulance on their commute, people they know are dying and everyone around them is coughing. The panic and the sky high death rates from a swamped medical system might cause a pretty similar economic situation to what we're seeing now.

Hopefully they throw us a more realistic stimulus, keep expanding unemployment and get more money to the small businesses. Unfortunately the brunt of the "help" is going to the corporate backers of politicians



I'm not against local areas enforcing their own laws based on their own level of risk. I'm in favour of that as a matter of fact.

but the reality is the death estimates are going down as we get more information, not up, and something we were really worried about initially (supply of ventilators in new york) has ended up not being as much of a worry as we thought.

Like I said locking down while we were gathering information wasnt nessecarily a bad move. but refusing to look at the new data objectively as they come in and just assuming everyone who disagrees with you doesnt care about people dying or doesnt have legitimate concerns is not a smart move.

Its clear that the information we started this lockdown with is outdated. so its not unreasonable at all to suggest we recalibrate by atleast looking at things objectively.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: HamHead] * 4
    #26606328 - 04/16/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If we keep everything shut down until a vaccine is available, then we'll destroy the world economy on a scale that no one has ever seen. Maybe 30% homelessness by the end of it.

If you open back up, then the virus comes roaring back within 30 days, and tons of people end up sick, dying, or with permanent health consequences as a result of the disease. Millions dead including probably hundreds of thousands of young people as well. And all your parents and older relatives die, too.

The thing is, even if we wait for a vaccine, there's no guarantee that a vaccine can even be developed. There are lots of viruses that there's no vaccine for despite a herculean effort to develop one. And even if we develop a vaccine, we'll need to administer it to every man, woman, and child in the world every year to maintain effectiveness.

And even if we can do that, you're still talking about a 100% shutdown worldwide until 2022, which would devastate the world economy on such a massive scale that it's almost inconceivable.

No matter what we do, we're fucked.


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26606329 - 04/16/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:

Like I said locking down while we were gathering information wasnt nessecarily a bad move. but refusing to look at the new data objectively as they come in and just assuming everyone who disagrees with you doesnt care about people dying or doesnt have legitimate concerns is not a smart move.

Its clear that the information we started this lockdown with is outdated. so its not unreasonable at all to suggest we recalibrate by atleast looking at things objectively.




Freaking great post, sir.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: mushboy]
    #26606333 - 04/16/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
I dont care what they say. Birds of a feather.




Same kind of reasoning that lumps pot heads and meth users in the same group by some people.

Drugs are drugs.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Niffla]
    #26606335 - 04/16/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

i think we need to post more math videos


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26606338 - 04/16/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:

I havent heard of anyone in New York who needed a ventilator going without one and now even Cuomo who was super worried is talking about reopening, saying the worst is over.



I didnt say anything about not reopening soon. I asked why you think it is that we never exceeded medical capacity in new york.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26606339 - 04/16/20 05:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:

I havent heard of anyone in New York who needed a ventilator going without one and now even Cuomo who was super worried is talking about reopening, saying the worst is over.



I didnt say anything about not reopening soon. I asked why you think it is that we never exceeded medical capacity in new york.



Cuomo said nobody in new york has gone without a ventilator if they needed one.

We initially thought we would have a vast shortage.


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26606341 - 04/16/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If we keep everything shut down until a vaccine is available, then we'll destroy the world economy on a scale that no one has ever seen. Maybe 30% homelessness by the end of it.

If you open back up, then the virus comes roaring back within 30 days, and tons of people end up sick, dying, or with permanent health consequences as a result of the disease. Millions dead including probably hundreds of thousands of young people as well. And all your parents and older relatives die, too.

The thing is, even if we wait for a vaccine, there's no guarantee that a vaccine can even be developed. There are lots of viruses that there's no vaccine for despite a herculean effort to develop one. And even if we develop a vaccine, we'll need to administer it to every man, woman, and child in the world every year to maintain effectiveness.

And even if we can do that, you're still talking about a 100% shutdown worldwide until 2022, which would devastate the world economy on such a massive scale that it's almost inconceivable.

No matter what we do, we're fucked.




yep, another excellent post :thumbup:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26606360 - 04/16/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


We initially thought we would have a vast shortage.



you are still dodging the question. The shortage predictions were based on the ventilation rates at the time of model creation, which were higher than they are now and the fact that they were averaging models based on various assumptions related to effect if social distancing on disease transmission.


The fact that we have enough ventilators is a reflection partially of the fact that social distancing measures worked, partially of the fact that thousands of ventilators were created, and partially of the fact that doctors realized they were being overused for covid19.

Finally, treating ventilator availability as a solution is... just wrong. I believe it still the case that well over half of covid patients put on a ventilator die anyway.

People are still getting sick though. A lot more would have gotten sick if we hadnt done this. The disease will create a massive healthcare burden in the future due to chronic disease related to organ damage and that is just impossible to quantify yet. A lot more will get sick if we arent careful about how we reopen.

But no the country should not stay closed minute longer than absolutely necessary


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26606366 - 04/16/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

they extended the lockdown and required everyone to wear masks in NYC public transit today


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26606369 - 04/16/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It is crazy to me that i still havent been offered a test


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