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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Asante]
    #26608187 - 04/17/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
My point is that since theres only the point of awareness and that what flows through it, everything you believe in only has merrit to the extent its useful to you.

Better a functional delusion than a nonfunctional assumption of truth.

If you believe that Papa Smurf runs the universe and from there, perform epic productive works that benefit the world and yourself, that belief is superior to atheism castrated with occam's razor to the point of only leading to melancholia.

So here's to Papa Smurf :cookiemonster:






It’s like everything you say is false. If it’s a delusion then there isn’t any point to doing good works or helping. I would be better served seeking the extinction of others then.

But to drive my point home about the two:
Quote:

Advaita is also thought to strongly diverge from solipsism in that, the former is a system of exploration of one's mind in order to finally understand the nature of the self and attain complete knowledge. The unity of existence is said to be directly experienced and understood at the end as a part of complete knowledge. On the other hand, solipsism posits the non-existence of the external world right at the beginning, and says that no further inquiry is possible.




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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26608189 - 04/17/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Also you are quite wrong to equate Solipsism with Vedanta, the two are nothing alike.





I'm offering it as a way out of your solipsism deadlock.

Its not the same, but equally plausible and not nearly as anxiety inducing.


Papa Smurf and I are trying to switch you from a negative sum game (Solipsism, nothing to learn) to a positive sum game (Advaita, everything to learn)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Asante]
    #26608207 - 04/17/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Also you are quite wrong to equate Solipsism with Vedanta, the two are nothing alike.





I'm offering it as a way out of your solipsism deadlock.

Its not the same, but equally plausible and not nearly as anxiety inducing.


Papa Smurf and I are trying to switch you from a negative sum game (Solipsism, nothing to learn) to a positive sum game (Advaita, everything to learn)



Except it doesn’t work, it only makes things worse. Your arguments aren’t a positive sum game because based on the philosophy there is nothing to learn. If you are everything then that renders any action pointless and the end result is nihilism.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26608210 - 04/17/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Glossing over the gaping holes in Vedanta like positing infinite knowledge when it can’t know that:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26608237 - 04/17/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Since you have it all covered, you are all and understand yourself completely, kindly manifest a gold coin for me, let's say a 2021 Krugerrand. :awegold:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Asante]
    #26608246 - 04/17/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Since you have it all covered, you are all and understand yourself completely, kindly manifest a gold coin for me, let's say a 2021 Krugerrand. :awegold:



I don’t have it all covered I’m just saying your words aren’t helping. Saying that all we have is our senses is what solipsism suggests but it doubts the external world. Even Vedanta is just a mental projection and is in doubt. Even the philosophy itself makes assumptions it can’t support.

If the goal was to help me out of this you failed in more ways than one. All I can really do is believe other people exist. If they didn’t then my life would be at an end. No relationships, no love, no kindness, no friends, nothing.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26608257 - 04/17/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm being very kind at you even thouh you feel I fail on all counts.

Thats what you've set yourself up with, you painted yourself into a corner philosophically.

Is faith so bad?

Believing in someone, in something, even though it cannot be rationally proven?




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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26608420 - 04/17/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
All I can really do is believe other people exist. If they didn’t then my life would be at an end. No relationships, no love, no kindness, no friends, nothing.




We're making some Progress! You're not alone Thanatos. In fact, theres more than 8 BILLION people right now in existence. Thats a lot people man. You're not so alone even if you feel like you are.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26608452 - 04/17/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
All I can really do is believe other people exist. If they didn’t then my life would be at an end. No relationships, no love, no kindness, no friends, nothing.




We're making some Progress! You're not alone Thanatos. In fact, theres more than 8 BILLION people right now in existence. Thats a lot people man. You're not so alone even if you feel like you are.



Except I can’t definitively know that


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Asante]
    #26608454 - 04/17/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
I'm being very kind at you even thouh you feel I fail on all counts.

Thats what you've set yourself up with, you painted yourself into a corner philosophically.

Is faith so bad?

Believing in someone, in something, even though it cannot be rationally proven?






Yet it is terrible because then I have nothing left to stand. The bonds that I feel with the people I treasure would be fake then and so would any care or concern for others


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26608462 - 04/17/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

And you cant prove that because you're convinced that every person is a fragment of your mind, correct?


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Re: Future vision? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26608469 - 04/17/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Life has no meaning? that is the most SELFISH thought I have ever heard. And I'm the king of selfish :notsureif: there ARE 8 billion other people whether your fragile mind believes so or not and disregarding their lives because you cant handle reality is ridiculous. Life is precious. Even yours. So get your head out of your ass and enjoy it before it's over.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26608482 - 04/17/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I know you are aware as an individual, and I know that I’m aware. I am confident enough to know that for the both of us.  Start small friend.

Between the extremes views that are like a dual sided trap- absolute nothingness and nihilism- there is the timeless window like moment of the here and now as the ever real pure pristine presence of inseparable being and awareness of the cosmos, that’s where I am and where I’ll meet you Thanatos!  :heart:


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/17/20 04:08 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Future vision? [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26608486 - 04/17/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Solipsism is the most selfish of all the Philosophies. :shrug:

And because of this, its also one of the most difficult to convince someone otherwise. Its like showing photos of Earth from Space to a Flat Earther. They will be instantly convinced that those photos are fake.

Convincing Thanatos that people are real and not imaginary will be a near-impossible task.

Are You For the Ultimate Challenge in Mind-Numbing Philosophy? :strokebeard:


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Re: Future vision? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26608501 - 04/17/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm for here and now. I could not care less whether this is "real" or not. I'm enjoying life for whatever it is. I try to follow my father's footsteps and just be the best person I can be(and fail miserably. Sorry if I'm an ass to any of you...) and just enjoy that I can even observe reality.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Future vision? [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26608512 - 04/17/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The present, or, the here and now - is real, is reality- and cannot be threatened in any way whatsoever.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/17/20 04:18 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26608552 - 04/17/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
Life has no meaning? that is the most SELFISH thought I have ever heard. And I'm the king of selfish :notsureif: there ARE 8 billion other people whether your fragile mind believes so or not and disregarding their lives because you cant handle reality is ridiculous. Life is precious. Even yours. So get your head out of your ass and enjoy it before it's over.




Except doesn’t really have meaning unless we give it such, and if it’s just mean the it’s truly meaningless. The claim that there are 8 billion other people is a belief, even talking to you on here is an act of faith in and of itself. As Astante made clear in their posts just because I sense them doesn’t mean they exist. With that in mind why care about the wellbeing of others? Why not live out a secret dream of bringing this world to ruin and suffering? I mean if everything is me then it would be suicide not murder right? Not a line of reasoning I want to pursue though.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26608557 - 04/17/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Solipsism is the most selfish of all the Philosophies. :shrug:

And because of this, its also one of the most difficult to convince someone otherwise. Its like showing photos of Earth from Space to a Flat Earther. They will be instantly convinced that those photos are fake.

Convincing Thanatos that people are real and not imaginary will be a near-impossible task.

Are You For the Ultimate Challenge in Mind-Numbing Philosophy? :strokebeard:



It’s not that it’s selfish but rather shows the limits of one’s ability to know. The hard problem of solipsism has no answer, because you can not verify the existence of an external world or other minds since all you have is sense data which may or may not be true. Hard solipsism says only you exist which is the extreme end of it.

To say it’s selfish is to ignore the issue posed by it, and the limits of humans. It’s heartbreaking more than anything, because I though I KNEW others existed but only to have it pointed out that I can’t verify that.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #26608608 - 04/17/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
but rather shows the limits of one’s ability to know.





It liberates you from the need to be right and know it, as you now are pretty confident you cannot do both with certainty.

All your precious KNOWING turns out to be BELIEF, ASSUMPTION.

If X, then Y therefore Z

And now you know theres no way to know whether X is really X.

Now you know why I spend so little time in the philosophy forum.




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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Future vision? [Re: Asante]
    #26608682 - 04/17/20 05:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
but rather shows the limits of one’s ability to know.





It liberates you from the need to be right and know it, as you now are pretty confident you cannot do both with certainty.

All your precious KNOWING turns out to be BELIEF, ASSUMPTION.

If X, then Y therefore Z

And now you know theres no way to know whether X is really X.

Now you know why I spend so little time in the philosophy forum.







It actually doesn’t. It renders you in a crippling stasis knowing you have nothing to stand on.


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