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Mateja


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Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes 39
#26601054 - 04/14/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is a simpler version of The Humidity Chamber but it's basically the exact same principle.
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Mateja said: After having dunked your colonized cakes for 24h rinse them off quickly and then use hydrated coir to coat the cakes around the sides and on the top. This outer layer should be roughly 5-10mm thick, and the coir shouldn't easily fall of, don't be afraid to press the coir firmly into place when needed, the cakes can handle it just try to make the coir layer around the same thickness for all the cakes. How it can look:

When all cakes have been coated in coir place them in any Water Tub that works for you, as long as it's a 6 sided container with a lid that closes fully. Place a cookie rack or glass jars inside the tub for your cakes sit on and add 1Inch of water. Place the lid back on fully to restrict FAE as much as possible and within hours the fully saturated environment will already have triggered regeneration in all colonies. For as long as >99% humidity is maintained the colony will keep regenerating new myc from all over the surface regardless of whether it has a coir layer to grab on to or not. Here are a few pics to show the transformation after ~48h in a closed Water Tub:
   At this point the cakes are ready to fruit so now we'll spray gently 2-3times from at least >3feet above or higher and immediately after I usually stick my head in to take a close look before deciding to give it 3 more sprays and then I inspect again and repeat until I've achieved surface conditions as seen in these pics these pics are the same 3 cakes as in pics above, before and after misting for easy comparison:
  
After surface conditions like these have been achieved then cakes are ready to go into fruiting conditions which is simply just creating small openings on top by slightly offsetting the lid to leave small openings a few square centimeters per top corned. Looks like this

FAE will cause evaporation to occur slowly so in about 1-5 days you'll need to gently mist to replace the amount of droplets that have vanished in the course of the days.
Edited by Mateja (02/03/22 06:34 PM)
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Jaboka]
#26602484 - 04/15/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jaboka said: You say you give them spray once i day. I really don't know how much should i spray them, so i do a little in the morning and at night.
Did you roll your cakes in verm? Could you post a pic of your setup and a close 6p of the cakes so I can see how the microclimate looks? I'll post a video later to show how I use the spray bottle and how much I mist.
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cronicr said: the vegetation will mold
The Pachira 'Aquatica' thrives in very high humidity, and the cutlings seem to be doing well after I took em out last night when I flushed the cakes.  Tho the random sticks I put inside that I took from the outside bush started to get soggy and rot pretty fast so I won't be putting more of those in the tub. But I'm excited to see for the next round how the coming cutlings will do in the Water Tub when insode for more than a couple of weeks.
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Jaboka said: i think its best to invest on humidity meter.
A hygrometer will tell you nothing, only visual inspection of the cakes can tell you how they're doing and if they need misting or not
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Jaboka
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja] 1
#26602647 - 04/15/20 10:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here is my "set up". Didn't even have a new container, so i used the one for inoculation, patched the wholes with some Gorilla duck tape lol
waiting on the "lmao"s, guys


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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: poisoned]
#26602830 - 04/15/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by Mateja (04/15/20 12:11 PM)
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Jaboka]
#26602855 - 04/15/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jaboka said: Here is my "set up". Didn't even have a new container, so i used the one for inoculation, patched the wholes with some Gorilla duck tape lol
waiting on the "lmao"s, guys



You can trim down the foil to the edge of the cake, but what are those substrates? Looks more like a qt of grain spawn? I asked if you rolled in verm but you never answered (I'm assuming you're fruiting BRF cakes?
Quote:
Sockadin said: Cool Tek Meteah. Can you post a sticky in the original op of that video you did. It way pretty nice to see it from all angles.
Thanks man, I'm glad you liked it
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (04/15/20 12:32 PM)
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Jaboka
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
#26603087 - 04/15/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Found verm sold near me. picking it up in a bit.
Going to roll them and report lol
Also have one cake reqdy to birth, i see a lot of small dots possible pins forming. Some of them are dark tho. Abortions?
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
#26609684 - 04/18/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Bump..
Here comes second flush on its way, myc already has a nice grip on the coir just 24h after being placed inside.

-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26611946 - 04/19/20 02:13 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's now been just under 48h after second roll in coir and the PF Trek cakes are already producing the Next Generation of pins at Warp Speed
 
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26624414 - 04/24/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So this is the second flush from these two 22L and 32L tubs, picked these fruits 2 days ago
 
And the remaining cakes are finishing up today
 
I can hardly tell the difference between first and second flush, cakes seem to flush evenly between the two flushes with slightly bigger fruits in flush two. Can't even tell the difference between the substrates in flush one and flush two.
Flush one pins and fruits
  
  
Flush two pins and fruits
  
  
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26625513 - 04/24/20 07:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cakes dunked and rolled ready for flush 3, but they still look like newly birthed lol

Quote:
LSA Woodrose said: Will it adversely affect my yield with your Tek because of MS syringes. Not complaining, and I don't want to screw up your data if my yields end up being crap through no fault of your Tek.    
Nah I don't think so, considering your last cake grow with the SGFC your cakes fruited similar to these cakes of mine, at least the first flush you pulled so I'm counting on you having similar or better results next round, you'll get better and better at cakes regardless of FC looking forward to see you grow some mo.
Jesus, the mushroom factory over here is running on all cylinders I need to switch my daily routines more to European time lol I don't have the energy to stay up late any more hehe. So see you tomorrow I guess
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26659264 - 05/09/20 05:27 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mateah, I don't know if you're around these days, but I have a couple of more questions about this Tek you invented. I birthed and dunked my first of 5 cakes, which unfortunately is about a week ahead of the other 4, but whatever. Tonight I will put that lone cake into the water tank I made. But I a going with a slight change to the suggestion in your OP, which I think may work out better for me. See the two pics below. I decided that unless you tell me differently, to make the following change:
I put the grate on top of 5 upside down 1/2 pint jars, instead of putting the jars atop the grate. This allows me to put a lot more than just an inch or two of water. In fact, I filled the water right up to about where the mason jars meet the grate. Will this work just as well or better? Seems to me that the more water would be better, and it also allows the cakes to be much closer to the water, without actually touching it, than they would be if they sat atop the bottoms of the mason jars. If I go this route, I will use a piece of tin foil below each cake, since that till hopefully prevent pins from growing downward, through the grates and into the water.
Second question is, in order to facilitate a better microclimate, and since I only birthed one cake yesterday, and will roll it tonight, would it be a good idea to put some of my stalled/resting cakes from my smaller SGFC into the Water Tub to see if that doesn't liven them up a bit? I will squeeze in the other four as I birth, dunk, and roll them.

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LSA Woodrose
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
#26666240 - 05/12/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: Hey what's up! Yea I've been buzy lately with house plants lol sry for the delayed amswer, my new place is starting to look like a tropical forest.. 
Hey, no worries. Real life trumps online life!
Okay, so verm-roll only once, after birthing. Got it. Here are two pics I just snapped. Here is something very interesting. You appear to be 100% right about misting only like once a day. These cakes have been in the Water Tub for about 40 hours. I wish that at least the one new cake that I birthed, dunked, and rolled was showing the kinds of 3-day results you were getting. But I suspect this has a lot more to do with either my sterilizing, inoculating, and birthing techniques or the vagaries of MS Spore Syringes, than anything with your Tek. Obviously, the dark cake is the new one that has no flushes yet, and the other 8 are some slowpokes, all from my 11 Golden Teacher cakes.
I am really starting to see the benefits of not misting in your Water Tub Tek. I know those cheap-ass hygrometers are not very accurate, but I can tell you this: I fanned both my big SGFC Tub as well as this one a few hours ago. The hygrometers in both tubs dropped to about 50% lol. Instead of panicking, I lightly misted the SGFC, but I did NOT mist the water tub. I wanted to see what would happen when simply putting the lid on upside down, as you recommend, and waiting. Sure enough, within a half hour, the humidity went right up to about 90%, while the one in the SGFC was a lot slower, and only creeped up, hence why I misted the SGFC cakes and not the Water Tub's cakes. Now I know this is NOT truly indicative of the humidity on the cake's surfaces, but it was at least a good sign. I also felt the cakes in your tub and with my fingers, very gently, and they were a helluva lot more moist than the cakes in my SGFC. In any event, you made a believer out of me. I am dramatically reducing my misting, but I am still fanning for about 90 seconds once per day. I misted this morning, and I won't mist again until tomorrow. Unless the cakes look/feel dry to me before then. I will try to mist the cakes in my SGFC less than I usually do, but they definitely need more misting than the cakes in your tub. Perhaps not 5 times a day, as RR recommended over a decade ago. I am going to try misting the SGFC cakes only 3 times a day, and the Water Tub only once a day. I will birth all 4 of the remaining cakes tomorrow or Thursday. They were fully colonized, as follows:
Jar 1 - May 1st Jar 2 - May 4th Jar 3 - May 5th Jar 4 - May 7th
Or do you think that I should just go ahead and birth them tonight? Oh, and fun fact, I have about 3 inches of water in the tub, and the cakes themselves sit at 0.75 inches above the surface of the water.

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LSA Woodrose
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja] 1
#26667998 - 05/13/20 05:37 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: In actuality 'misting' doesn't really tell us the amount of water or and in what fashion it has been sprayed over the cakes.
I think I found the proverbial silver bullet that was missing in my chain, both for my SGFC and apparently seeming to help even the Water Chamber. I have everything fruiting (lol or trying) in a big closet. The closet is about 46 inches wide, 9 feet high, and only a mere 25 inches deep with the double doors open. (See pic below) That is a pretty large closet, and note that the ceiling of the closet is about two feet above what looks like the large top in the picture. When I first put my two SGFCs in there, waaaaay back at the beginning of April, I kept the doors closed. I misted the 5-6 times a day that RogerRabbit recommended in his PF Tek vids. You can see the Water Tub on the upper right side of the closet, by the way, and the SGFC to the left. The tub on the bottom left (30 Quart SGFC) is empty as I put all 8 cakes from there into the Water Tub with the new cake I birthed a few days ago. I left those doors closed 24/7.
Here is my n00b-hypothesis:
I don't believe that I was getting anywhere near enough FAE with the doors closed, especially since the width of the closet (back to front) is only 25 inches. Look, you guys can knock those cheap ass hygrometers all you want. You can talk about surface moisture/humidity of the cakes being possibly even wildly different than the humidity that the hygrometer is measuring, even inches away from the closest cakes. And I'm sure you're right. But here is where it does help, even being dubiously accurate: It gives a good reading of "relative humidity" in the air inside the chamber. I can tell you that for the past month and a half, I have spent a lot of energy, a ton of misting, even fanning, trying to keep those meters in my chambers north of 90 mm HG, and it really was an uphill battle. However, my theory is that the doors being closed was causing the air to be very still, and not circulating near enough.
And this is where the hygrometers tell me that my hypothesis may very well be right. As you and many others have said here, they are not an accurate predictor of the moisture on the cake's surface. But I can tell you that starting the night before last, I have been leaving the double-doors to that closet open. All of a sudden, with a lot less misting than I was doing, both hygrometers are STAYING north of 90 mm, and with very, very little work or misting. I honestly believe that by leaving those doors wide open, the air is circulating immeasurably better now, and this is allowing the humidity to stay high without constantly needing to mist. I am now misting the SGFC only 2-3 times a day, and your Water Tub only ONCE. And the humidity in both chambers is STAYING north of 90. So, say what you want about those hygrometers, but I believe that they led me to solving my problem of why I got shitty 2nd flushes on only about 8 of my original 24 cakes, and no 2nd flushes yet on 16 of them. I also think that the only reason I got he big, fat 1st flushes I did was because the mushrooms were ready to explode out of the 24 cakes when first birthed, so they would have grown no matter what, I suspect. But after that energy was used up in their 1st flushes, the lack of FAE stalled all my cakes. I am anxious to see what happens over the coming days and weeks now that I believe I have created an environment where FAE can naturally occur.
Quote:
Mateah said: Perhaps RR was misting a fifth of what you and I consider a misting session? Only spreading it out throughout the day with a squeeze or two instead of spraying it all at once, who knows.. its arbitrary and individually figured what misting really means.
I seriously doubt this. I watched RR's partner in the video spraying those cakes, and lol being anal and OCD about all of this, especially when I first started, I actually counted how many sprays he did when they were talking about misting. The guy did about 60 really fat sprays with the spray bottle, and he pointed the nozzle right at the cakes. Neither of them said anything about avoiding spraying the cakes directly, or anything like what you guys have admonished in this regard. I firmly believed that if RR didn't want us to mist our cakes with 50+ sprays every time, he would have said so. He is very meticulous in those videos, and I have to seriously doubt he would have spent the time in those PF Tek vids demonstrating misting that was flat-out wrong, or way too much.
Now, I know his videos were made about 15-20 years ago. I get that new information comes out all the time. Perhaps his videos have some information that is decades out of date. I have absolutely nowhere near the knowledge to evaluate that, though. I wish he would chime in here and correct our perceptions of his Tek, but he is very inactive in the forums and I don't think he has posted in years.
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Mateah said: Imo misting is to replenish the substrate surface and not to hydrate the substrate itself. The water you spray should never impregnate the myc on the surface which should appear to be hydrophobic in a way as the tiny droplets may rest on the surface for days in a row without ever getting absorbed by the colony. Personally not a fan of fanning but I suppose you're not hurting anything by burning 10-15calories waving your arms up and down many cats with different skins 
Fair enough. Sounds logical to me.
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Mateah said: And Jesus you write long posts, carefully and overly examined procedures lol, you're like a well mannered version of myself 
Ha! You know what? I remember when forums first became a thing. Message forums sort of evolved out of what they used to call "Newsgroups", which were sort of Pre-forums waaaaaaaaay back in the early '90s. I started using message forums, a lot, in the late '90s, when they first started replacing those antiquated email newsgroups. I'm talking about like 1995, which is 25 years ago, when I was posting in those old Yahoo Groups forums. Anyway, for 25ish years, people have been complaining to me about my long posts. I'm sure they will continue to complain for the next 25. 
Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
LSA Woodrose said: Real life trumps
Make fanning great again.

ROFLMAO!!!
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26674208 - 05/16/20 05:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, I am very surprised! This seems like such a groundbreaking Tek, in my opinion, that I can't believe that nobody is posting here with pictures and progress reports. I think the idea of this Tek is borderline brilliant, in fact. I want to post some pics and my own progress report so far utilizing my first water tub, and hopefully others will post their pics and progress with it as well. Okay, so I put my first (1 of 5) newly birthed, dunked, and rolled cakes into the water tub Sunday afternoon, 1:30PM on 05/10, along with some of my stalled Golden Teacher cakes. This is where I'm at so far, as of last night. See pics below. I finally birthed and D&R'd the last 4 cakes last night. Obviously the darker, verm-covered cakes at the bottom of the pic are the new cakes. Yay! So lol a nod to Fahtster, I have crammed 12 cakes into that tiny, little 30 Quart tub, see pic #1. Pics #2 and #3 show a cake flushing, which is only like the 3rd of my 11 Golden Teacher cakes to have an actual second flush. I have a few other GT cakes in there as well. Oh and I harvested the flush and put the cake in water where they will wait for 24 hours. Anyway, not the biggest flush in the world from that cake. I only got about 35 grams, but still, from a stalled cake, I'll totally take it!
Disclaimer: To be fair, the cake that I just harvested this morning did start pinning and growing while it was in the SGFC, so it would not be entirely accurate to use that as a test case for the Water Tub, since its hard to prove one way or the other whether it would have also fruited the same in the SGFC I took it out of. However, anecdotally, I can say that the cake really took off once I put it in the water tub. Also the stalled GT cakes in there do seem to be pinning more than the counterpart cakes in the SGFC, so that's something. Finally, pic 5 shows the pinning, 5 days after its entry into the water tub of the first cake that has been set to fruit in the water tub only. That's a lot of pins, and I have the feeling this is going to be one really nice flush from that cake, probably Monday or Tuesday.



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LSA Woodrose
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
#26679634 - 05/18/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: but all in all it seems to be fairly consistent across all levels of experience that have tried it.
How often are you misting and what other regiments are implementing?
Okay I have a BIG update for you, but first, I was misting my cakes in the big 70 Quart SGFC about 5-6 times a day, robustly, as RR and his partner in the PF Tek video recommended. The cakes in the Water Tub, however, I have only been misting once a day, sometimes twice, but not usually. Its serendipitous that you posted just now, because while you were posting, I was uploading some pics of my setup to the image host site I use. Coincidence or fate? lol
Okay, so here's my update:
Earlier today, I finally got disgusted with the post 1st Flush results I was getting from my SGFC's. I also noticed that the freaking stalled cakes that were in my 30 Quart SGFC (all Golden Teacher cakes) were actually starting to pin only a few days after I stuffed them into the 30 Quart Water Tub I posted pics of this morning. So, in a last desperate attempt to get the other 18 cakes lagging and stalling in my 70 Quart SGFC to start fruiting, I said, Fuck it! I grabbed my face mask and headed to Home Depot and grabbed another 70 Quart Sterilite Container. On a side note, I really think I should get some free stock in their company at this point, but I digress. Anyway, I grabbed my two round Steamers, the ones I used in my big stock pots to sterilize my BRF jars, and I put them in the bottom of the tub. I then filled it with enough water to come to about a half inch below the grates. Then I had to puzzle piece three medium to small sized grates into the 70 Quart tub that is now my second water tub. In short, I have at least temporarily retired both SGFCs now. It may not do anything, as these lagging 18 cakes I took out of the SGFC today and stuffed into the new Water Tub may be too far gone at this point. But you know what? Its worth the $13.00 investment I just paid to see if I can squeeze some more shrooms out of those lagging, stubborn cakes.
Note: This is NOT to disparage the SGFC. I believe it is absolutely a scientifically sound fruiting chamber. However, I get the feeling that back about 15+ years ago, perhaps RogerRabbit didn't realize that some places, where the ambient humidity isn't high enough, simply aren't going to make BRF cakes thrive much past their first flush. And in defense of the SGFC, even for my use, I did get a crapload of shrooms from ALL 24 original cakes, and a nice, fat second flush from at least 1/3 of those cakes. So if they are done, so be it. But I have the feeling that your Water Tub is going to give me some big, FAT flushes of those stalled cakes. As substantiation to that assertion, look at pics 4 and 5. I circled some/most of the pinning coming off cakes that were completely DEAD last week, and in just a few short days, they sure as hell seem to be coming back to life. Pic 1 is both tubs; pic 2 is the original Water Tub I posted last week. Pic 3 is the NEW 70 Quart Water Tub that I hope scores me more flushes.
Note 2: The cake that is flushing is my Costa Rico cake, which is 1 of the 5 I birthed last week. I am just waiting for some of those teensy shrooms to get a little bigger, and then I will harvest them. Probably tomorrow.




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mushhead
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
#26681888 - 05/19/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I basically did this with one of my smaller monotubs. So I had some extra rye spawn and decided to toss it into a 2ltr bottle with some substrate to colonize. After it was fully colonized it started to explode out of the bottle so I had to make more space for it. Found this tek and it saved me a lot of time! I cut the bottle away down to the bottom. The cake sits in that and the water surrounds the cake. So far I've had some awesome fruits.
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Meditation Principles Silence: Giving you room to listen / Stillness: Giving you room to feel / Spaciousness: Just giving you room
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Roger Clemency] 1
#26683202 - 05/20/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: Yeah I read that the first time. I just didn't respond because it's a slippery slope argument. You can blame the grower for following a TEK to the T and still say it's the growers fault because none of these TEK's are bullet proof. They all have room for innovation (like you did) and modification. So I just don't think saying well if it didn't work out, it's the grower. I am pretty sure this Tek wouldn't work in Antarctica.
Agreed, every word. I also have to agree with Roger Clemency that my closet was probably the culprit. But also, I have to re-assert the possibility that my ambient humidity just isn't high enough to make the most of the SGFC. I decided that if I ever use the SGFC's. and lol I have two of them now, it will only be on the condition that I use some sort of artificial humidifier in my grow area. But tha's another day. lol I also love Roger's Clemency's name as a huge Yankees fan.
Quote:
Roger Clemency said: Lsa- I admire your dedication but man you are like the poster child for over thinking and making adjustments quickly and often 
While I agree, and I also think it can be a flaw at times, it has really helped me with my first n00b grow. Also, thanks to continued overthinking and adjustments, and that leading me to this Water Tub Tek, those cakes that were stalled to the point of being dead in the water for around a month, now seem to be turning around now. Even that water tub I started on Monday that just passed now has a bunch of cakes with fresh pins. I won't lie. Since joining this forum, I have perused hundreds of threads and posts by n00bs just like me who were falling flat on their faces in their first grows. I didn't want to do that. I wanted my first grow to set a really positive tone for any future grows, so I studied, asked questions, made adjustments, and yes, I overthought the shit out of it. All in all, I'm both grateful for all the help I have received and happy I took the approach I did. Now I have probably about a year's worth of shrooms for personal use (maybe a little less) and seemingly more on the way. Hopefully a lot more.
So, here's to overthinking, at least when you're a n00b like me and have sooooooo much to learn!
Edited by LSA Woodrose (05/20/20 12:17 PM)
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26735873 - 06/11/20 01:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Jesus Christ, this page is so retarded lol lemme try to save it  Here are some coir cakes pinning inside the Water Tub. What the kids call 'pin city' altho it's more aesthetic than practical imo, but nevertheless, it will probably still yield a 'full flush' even if only a fifth of those fruits mature (70-100g/cake) 
 
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja] 1
#26742637 - 06/13/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: even if only a fifth of those fruits mature (70-100g/cake) 
  
I take that back
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
#26751453 - 06/17/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bump.
Here's a dounut fruiting btw, he seems to enjoy slow cooking in tropical climates. (always grow in normal room temperature if possible, this is purely experimental)
 
And here's a nice view of the micro climate
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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