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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
Being better than the next human being
    #26599739 - 04/14/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It took me quite a long time to figure out I'm not better than the next human being. There's a big if here, have I really figured it out or am I being prideful yet again looking at the insecurities of the next human being? Truth be told, I'm filled with insecurities, shit, foolishness, ulterior motives and the rest of it.

Now I'm not really sure if I'm fishing for sympathy. I like to think I'm just speaking my mind. Truth be told, here we go again.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26599962 - 04/14/20 09:43 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I figured that out very early on despite having deep seated psychological issues. That alone is not what will save you.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Grapefruit] * 1
    #26599980 - 04/14/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It feels like you're trying to compete with me.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26600650 - 04/14/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

just be aware of it


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:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26600932 - 04/14/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

this superior to humans -- maybe we get there in our next reincarnation..if we are very good



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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: laughingdog]
    #26601164 - 04/14/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'd like to be a big badass male lion. I would laze about all day in the sun sleeping and yawning while my harem hunts for me. :yesnod:


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26601568 - 04/14/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
It took me quite a long time to figure out I'm not better than the next human being. There's a big if here, have I really figured it out or am I being prideful yet again looking at the insecurities of the next human being? Truth be told, I'm filled with insecurities, shit, foolishness, ulterior motives and the rest of it.

Now I'm not really sure if I'm fishing for sympathy. I like to think I'm just speaking my mind. Truth be told, here we go again.




Contrast humility with shame, pride with self righteousness. If we consider those four words to be distinct, can a person be proud and humble at the same time? Shameful and proud? Humble and self righteous? Shameful and self righteous? My opinion is that the answers to those questions are Y, N, N, Y.

It may help to see those words less distinctly, more of a single scale, and aim for the middle where both pride and humility may be found.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Rahz]
    #26602109 - 04/15/20 05:10 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

yes, by observing the mercurial mind and not taking oneself so seriously


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:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Rahz]
    #26612660 - 04/19/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:...Contrast humility with shame, pride with self righteousness. If we consider those four words to be distinct, can a person be proud and humble at the same time? Shameful and proud? Humble and self righteous? Shameful and self righteous? My opinion is that the answers to those questions are Y, N, N, Y.

It may help to see those words less distinctly, more of a single scale, and aim for the middle where both pride and humility may be found.




Sounds like you first think there is a correct verbal formula for emotions that can guide folks, but then want to back track & take the same already undefined words, and make them even less distinct; in hopes of some solution to some supposed problem.

If I define the words clearly:

Humility equals realizing one's unimportance. (Which is also true of everyone else whether they realize it or not - it has nothing to do with being less than others - just loss of all self importance)

Pride equals self encouragement. ("hey I did a good job, that means tomorrow I can do better.")

Shame/ embarrassment equals realizing one did not meet one's own standards, or the standards of those one respects, and that if they knew what one did they would manifest disapproval and one might loose respect. Guilt which is related is the feeling that one deserves punishment.

Self righteousness equals having no sense of humor, due to a continual need to feel morally superior to others.

False humility equals pretending to feel one is less worthy than others, in order to manipulate them, and also to escape blame.

Unhealthy Pride is akin to what is commonly called 'showing off' or 'boasting', if chronic, it is of course a defense mechanism to protect the individual from feelings of insecurity.

Seems to me once the definitions are clear, particularly the double meanings of pride & humility,
the clouds of confusion clear.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: laughingdog]
    #26612993 - 04/19/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

There are unclear distinctions in the vernacular. "I was humiliated" = felt shamed. "He's too proud" = he's arrogant. I'm not sure your definition of self righteousness is accurate, but it's probably not the best word anyway so we'll go with arrogance.

So the point is to show that there are relationships between those words and that arrogance and shame are quite often found together, and that pride and humility are found together.

There also (can be) a perceptual connection between humility and shame, pride and arrogance. I don't think I was back tracking, rather just different perspectives for consideration. The difference in perception on a personal level could stem from differences in self perception rather than whether the words have been studied properly... although it's understandable with the limitations, and perhaps misuse of language, that it's just a generally confusing topic until thought out.

Some describe narcissism on a scale from 0-10 with 5 being healthy. It makes a lot of sense to me. Arguing semantics might mean missing the point of a perspective.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Rahz]
    #26613100 - 04/19/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...
So the point is to show that there are relationships between those words and that arrogance and shame are quite often found together, and that pride and humility are found together.

There also (can be) a perceptual connection between humility and shame, pride and arrogance. I




I don't want to get tied up in semantics either. That's what I hoped to avoid. Perhaps examples are a better way of being specific. Seems like you have some in the 'back of your mind',  where some of these qualities are combined, that I haven't imagined, that might be interesting.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: laughingdog]
    #26613607 - 04/19/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well, true pride for instance isn't going to belittle the loser of a sport, but rather thank them for playing and acknowledge the opponent's skill. So pride and humility going together. A loser can still be proud of their effort and thus be humble enough to thank the other player for playing and acknowledge the superior skill in that game.

The winner could be arrogant and say "haha, I trashed your ass", and to my mind that's something worth being ashamed of. The loser could walk away mad and ashamed of losing, secretly thinking they should have won for some reason because they are better than the other player.

The person who developed the scale (Dr. Craig Malkin) describes a 10 as excessive narcissism and a 0 as "reverse narcissism". The salient point is that everyone is narcissistic to some degree but it can be healthy or unhealthy, and that unhealthy narcissism is generally is expressed as one of two extremes to some degree.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Rahz]
    #26613796 - 04/19/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks, now I understand your points. So only self righteousness, appears to have no saving grace. I see Dr. Craig Malkin has written some books. I have also known some over the top  narcissists, their energy maybe great, but spending time with them or being dependent on them is another matter all together.


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OfflineSpiralspider
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Registered: 06/20/16
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: laughingdog]
    #26617953 - 04/21/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

fuck it i was alone all day and this post is good to say something

i really don't know the lines and the links that originated that thought, or feeling but as you can see in my signature below you got to avoid that belief that you are competing cause youll never get to shake hands with it and make peace and go on...
If you watch jordan peterson he would say its a byblical reference such a 7 headed hydra or something, when you cut a head, 3 more appear and its everytime multiplying.
It's our role to direct the attention to ourselves rather then to what others do and therefore dont fall into foolishness of believing we are actually worst or better than "the next human being".
There is surely a pyramid of values or rankings about people, and the majority of people determines who is in the top and on the bottom end but it should be a guide to determine where you want to aim , but if you dont want to aim nowhere its also true and not stupid.

Being better is not very easy to evaluate, it depends on your standards, everyone has some idol in some field, as sports, or politics or arts, and they are the bests in something but they are not the best at everything

for now im good


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OfflineAZZI
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: Spiralspider]
    #26618584 - 04/21/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Read some Nietsche, Thoreau, Whitman, Emerson.
Randomly but the point is, don't adopt slave mentality.
You're doing that a bit in this post.
Vivekananda said, 'There is no sin, only weakness.'
Or the only sin is weakness.
Which sounds Machiavellian, but it's not exactly.
The other things emphasized are gentleness, and so forth.


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Being better than the next human being [Re: AZZI]
    #26618965 - 04/21/20 11:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I went off Viveknanda for that reason. No doubt the guy was a genius of sorts, seems to me there was a lot of truth to many of the things he said. And yet I don't really appreciate that he often seems to me to say that if you can't measure up to the plate then you have no worth and best stay home and fill yourself with guilt. Seems like a damaging perspective. Christ better emphasised that all people are prone to weakness, although no doubt there are many delusional ways of responding to that perspective too.

Being comfortable with weakness if underrated. Overstriving toward strength is often not helpful.

I'm reminded of this David Foster Wallace quote although it doesn't totally fit with what I'm trying to get across here. But the second part does perfectly.

“What passes for hip cynical transcendence of sentiment is really some kind of fear of being really human, since to be really human [...] is probably to be unavoidably sentimental and naïve and goo-prone and generally pathetic.”


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


Edited by Grapefruit (04/21/20 11:15 PM)


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