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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Registered: 07/28/17
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How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora?
    #26541274 - 03/17/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Psilocybe angulospora produces very little spores.

They produce so little spores, that they appear visually to be sterile.

Technically they are not "sterile" because spores of Psilocybe angulospora can be seen under the microscope apparently...

This leaves me wondering about how to collect the spores of this species?

I have never attempted to sporeprint the species, because they don't look like they drop any spores...

Would swabbing the gills work?

This species appears to have no spores... :lol::lol:
:header:


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Invisiblethirdeyewild
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26541345 - 03/17/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I would totally try swabbing those.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: thirdeyewild]
    #26541350 - 03/17/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thirdeyewild said:
Yeah I would totally try swabbing those.




Yeah, I thought so as well...

Wondering what Alan or inski might have to say though.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Registered: 07/28/17
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26541800 - 03/17/20 10:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'm pretty sure swabbing them would be the practical approach.
It's just that I had not really considered this, until now...

I'll try it when I find them fruiting this upcoming psilocybe season. :super:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26545337 - 03/19/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yea Inski sent me spore prints of this species in 2008 or so, and the prints were invisible, so he circled the spots on the foil so I would know where they were.  They didn't germinate though.    I would put gill fragments on agar, either that or just clone it fresh.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #26545397 - 03/19/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Yea Inski sent me spore prints of this species in 2008 or so, and the prints were invisible, so he circled the spots on the foil so I would know where they were.



:ilold:

Do you reckon taking a sterile q-tip like in eatyualive's sterile swab tek (pressure cooked swabs)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22556356#22556356

And then swabbing in-between the gills of an angulospora mushroom would be the best approach for storing the spores of this species?

I don't see why not, this seems the practical approach to me...
:strokebeard:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26562787 - 03/28/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sure, or just gently and cleanly dry a mature cap, and leave the spores stuck to the gills.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26563560 - 03/28/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah thought so. Making spore swabs would seem a more logical approach for this species than taking spore prints.

Seems kinda silly to take spore prints when they drop such little spores that you can not see them with the naked eye.. :lol:
It is strange how this species produces very little spores. Very strange. I would like to learn more about this phenomenon... :confused:

Psilocybe angulospora is an interesting psilocybe to say the least.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26566629 - 03/30/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It could just be that it does not have ballistospory, other species in NZ like weraroa also are not able to do this.

So sampling directly from the gills/hymenium itself should be an option I guess. Note that for species like truffles, it may be necessary to physically force spores loose.

I would experiment to see what is the right place and what is the least force you need to apply to get a sample of enough spores and not a messy sample containing a lot of tissue.

Interesting, Roger. :smile:


Edited by Solipsis (03/30/20 06:55 AM)


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: Solipsis]
    #26567708 - 03/30/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Solipsis said:
It could just be that it does not have ballistospory, other species in NZ like weraroa also are not able to do this.




I don't believe this is the case with Psilocybe angulospora. I believe that they do drop spores, but I can't say for certain. :shrug:

Psilocybe subsecotioides and weraroa DO produce a sporeload inside the gills that IS visible with the naked eye, they just don't eject their spores from the gills, so they don't make spore prints.

Psilocybe angulospora however, I'm under assumption that they DO produce and eject spores, but they don't make enough spores to be seen with the naked eye, even in maturity the gills look as though they are sterile.

Either way, they do produce spores, but they produce such a little spore count that they appear to be sterile macroscopically. :shrug:

Fucking strange psilocybe.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26568475 - 03/31/20 05:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Man.. that's weird..

But I have seen this happen. My Psilocybe cyanescens in my balcony planter fruited for a period and at the end when it got pretty cold it seemed that I got fruits which appeared the same, like they had not produced spored.

I'll ask some knowledgeable people about the phenomenon.

How often have you found them, how much did the conditions vary. Is this something you know to happen structurally with this species? :smile:

What makes you think that they do drop spores? You mean because there is nothing to indicate that they don't and its all about the spores being produced in the first place?

You are also certain they are a regular dark purple spore color and not hyaline?

edit: am I nuts or did someone suggest before that this was synonymous with P. makarorae? Could just be me, my mind is a little screwed up.
Anyway i was interested to hear that Alan confirmed them to be separate species.
If Alan was actually able to check out the spores of these species to compare them, perhaps he has more tips on how to collect them?

Spores can get lost in the fuzz of a Qtip apparently. So if very few spores can be collected of this species it seems smart to have them all stored in a place where all of them can be retrieved.

If you do swab and it is one's goal to germinate them, I would suggest taking a forceps and sticking that fuzz all right into the agar for a more effective inoculation.

I got that tip recently and I am not applying that method for my most difficult to germinate species as a hail-mary.


Edited by Solipsis (04/01/20 06:48 AM)


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Registered: 07/28/17
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: Solipsis]
    #26596456 - 04/12/20 07:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Solipsis said:
But I have seen this happen. My Psilocybe cyanescens in my balcony planter fruited for a period and at the end when it got pretty cold it seemed that I got fruits which appeared the same, like they had not produced spored.



This you speak upon is actual "Sterility" though...
Sometimes Psilocybe subaeruginosa mycelium can produce entire flushes of sterile fruits. Example. These fruits are TRULY SPORELESS/STERILE


Psilocybe angulospora IS NOT sterile, it just produces VERY LITTLE SPORES!

I too, am interested about why it is that Psilocybe angulospora does not produce a "normal" spore load...

It DOES produce spores, just not enough to be visible with the naked eye, you need a scope to see the spores.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26597642 - 04/13/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Ok Ok i gotcha :laugh:

Agreed you can't really compare it with what i described.

Hmm, by the way why is it described to be "from Taiwan"? It has been discovered that it has grown there for considerably longer than it exists in New Zealand? Or is this just a manner of speech from the NZ mycologist point of view?

Is the species not known to grow anywhere else but these 2 countries?
They are both islands right? So maybe angulaspora lost the ability to sporulate well because it has long felt its geological isolation and idk due to how well the myc lasts only needs to rejuvinate itself a bit with small amounts of spores but has no evolutionary advantage anymore from heavier sporulation?

It would be interesting to know if sterile subs strains are also mostly growing in particularly isolated / areas (islands), so vicariance?

There being precedents or not for this phenomenon of species or localities indiginous to isolated places not sporulating much might refute or confirm my hypothesis.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: Solipsis]
    #26598121 - 04/13/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah. Psilocybe angulospora is only known from Taiwan and NZ.

You got some thought provoking theorys there Solipsis.
Perhaps the low spore load is due to "geological isolation"... :shrug:


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26598335 - 04/13/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The first record of P. angulospora in New Zealand was from 1969 in a subalpine herb field in Franz Josef Glacier, Westland.
https://nzfungi2.landcareresearch.co.nz/Default.aspx?SpecimenID=87866995

The reason I believed it was P. makarorae for a long time was because the above collection and one or two other collections were included as collections examined for the published description of P. makarorae, in that description macroscopic and microscopic characteristics of both species were erroneously published together so it was easy for me to identify it as P. makarorae, after examining many collections of both species now I easily recognise them as separate taxa.

Interestingly, I have looked at the published description for P. angulospora in Taiwan and the spores differ quite a bit in shape and size to the collections from NZ, DNA sequences seem to match so these microscopic differences could represent speciation to a degree.

I personally asked a very prominent American mycologist about the low spore production of this species and he told me it was very possible that the introduction and isolation on an island resulting in a bottlenecked gene pool could certainly cause strange things to happen like sterility or low spore production.

An image of the face of a gill from P. angulospora, NZ collection.

With normal sporulating species an image like this would be crowded with spores.

...either way, in nature it seems to reproduce without a problem and has become quite common even with very low spore production, there are a few things to consider, one being the spread of hyphae through horticultural practices and another more interesting idea that some fungi including many Psilocybe species are capable of asexual reproduction and have an anamorph stage, asexual conidia can form in the mycelium that are capable of germinating, mating and forming viable dikaryotic mycelium.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19830582#19830582

Cultures from spore samples or tissue samples all seem to be very slow growing and virtually impossible to isolate away from what I believe to be a bacterial contamination which I think rides along with the hyphae within the fruitbodies:shrug:


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: inski]
    #26598418 - 04/13/20 04:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Fixed the link.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: inski]
    #26598423 - 04/13/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Very good inski, thank you for jumping on my thread.
:takingnotes:

Quote:

inski said:
Interestingly, I have looked at the published description for P. angulospora in Taiwan and the spores differ quite a bit in shape and size to the collections from NZ, DNA sequences seem to match so these microscopic differences could represent speciation to a degree.

I personally asked a very prominent American mycologist about the low spore production of this species and he told me it was very possible that the introduction and isolation on an island resulting in a bottlenecked gene pool could certainly cause strange things to happen like sterility or low spore production.




I was wondering specifically about this.

I would be interested to observe and learn about how collections of P. angulospora in Taiwan compare to collections from New Zealand.


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #26598432 - 04/13/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I failed to find any records of collections in Taiwan apart from the type collection and one additional collection mentioned in the published description.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: inski]
    #26598487 - 04/13/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

inski said:
Cultures from spore samples or tissue samples all seem to be very slow growing and virtually impossible to isolate away from what I believe to be a bacterial contamination which I think rides along with the hyphae within the fruitbodies:shrug:




Very interesting!
:takingnotes:
Would you say that cultivating P. angulospora is a difficult undertaking then?


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: How can I harvest spores from Psilocybe angulospora? [Re: inski]
    #26598520 - 04/13/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

inski said:
Fixed the link.



I still can not seem to access the content within that link bro.
:waitingpatiently:


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