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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26595583 - 04/12/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.




There will be work done but it could still be a while. A corona virus vaccine would be a first. There was work done on a vaccine when the first SARS hit but never finished, ostensibly because the contagion petered out. But apparently it's no easy task.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26595605 - 04/12/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.




Interesting. Can you point to any prominent scientists that agree with your opinion that it would be easy to create a vaccine for aids given the proper resources?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26596871 - 04/12/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't say it would be easy, but when the elite of our society...for better or worse...are impacted money will be spent to cure it...if it only affect an unimportant minority is affected no one will do it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26596874 - 04/12/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.




Interesting. Can you point to any prominent scientists that agree with your opinion that it would be easy to create a vaccine for aids given the proper resources?




Learn how to use google search and you will read what I read...come on this is easy stuff to find. I am not searching links for mainstream news. I don't have anything to prove. You can find all the info I have easily.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,949
Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26597006 - 04/13/20 12:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

We almost there folks, 2000 a day in US already.

I mean, the only hope is competence to reduce the coming massacre of the US.

Alas, you know, alas. =/


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26597375 - 04/13/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I was just interested I don't know why you're getting so defensive. If you don't have a source to share then fine. :shrug:

I've never heard anyone echo that POV in media or on documentaries so naturally I am a little suspicious of it. Usually I have heard people saying that vaccines can be difficult to produce. I couldn't find anything very similar doing a quick google search either. It's not like I'm not open to the idea as it does seem reasonable in theory.

I found this.

"Myth: The search for an HIV vaccine has been going on for a long time and it just isn’t possible to find one that works.

Fact: The science of HIV-vaccine development is challenging, but scientific understanding continues to improve all the time. In just the past few years there have been promising results from the RV144 study in Thailand as well as exciting laboratory work, such as the discovery of new broadly neutralizing antibodies against HIV. HIV is a powerful opponent, but scientists are constantly learning from one another and using advanced technology to fight it. Science has come a long way in the 30 years since AIDS was discovered. In comparing preventive HIV vaccine work to other vaccine development, the time it has taken is not so surprising; it took 47 years to develop the polio vaccine!"


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26597411 - 04/13/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

myth: Polio is an infectious disease.



sugar lump vaccine

video summary: propaganda from 1961



Polio is a Man-Made Disease: Part 1

video summary: before the 1800's Polio did not exist. in the late 1800's it started to pop up, and Polio seemed to peaked in 1952. did polio appear from a change in genetics, a change in microbes, or a change in the environment?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: End of Empire *DELETED* [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597516 - 04/13/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by The Blind Ass

Reason for deletion: AccidentL


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 09:28 AM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26597528 - 04/13/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Absolutely, good point. I think that's the nature of civilization. When you take over and start meddling with an ecosystem, you're typically never able to stop meddling with it trying to bring it back into balance. The U.S. government, for example, specifically the Department of the Interior, does a lot of work protecting endangered species.

In the Colorado River Basin, where there are all sorts of dams, the government does all it can to preserve endangered animals, especially fish species. But when they institute one measure, another unrelated species begins to dominate, and then a different endangered species is in trouble. Then they take a measure for that one, and a particular algae in the river goes out of control, and affects other species, ad infinitum. You get the idea. Long and short of it is that you're totally right.

So this coronavirus crisis is so complex that it will have ripple effects, sort of like a domino effect. And we correct one problem after a lot of money, time and effort, only to find that this has exposed an unrelated imbalance. We'll see what happens, but there are going to be some severe, multifaceted and numerous side effects even from the main economic and social crisis. I guess you could say it's an interesting time to be alive, but all the same, it's really very unfortunate and distressing. We'll just have to see where it all goes, and that will be a protracted, long-term thing.




.    Seems to me that at the foundation of all these problems, is an insane amount of over population. I grew up in a small town, in the 1950s. I climbed trees, played in woods, the whole town felt safe, there was a lake, an empty field with green grass, a pond, a natural history  museum, and only one small down town area with shops. The first shopping center, mostly one story buildings was a novelty at first. There were no malls anywhere, and no franchised junk food outlets or big box stores. All stores were run by local families - real unique hardware stores, separate lumber yards,  book stores without coffee shops. Parking mostly wasn't a problem.
It was safe for kids to  ride their bikes all over town. There was a natural quality of life and the wonders of nature were part of it. There were both flower & vegetable gardens.
.    It was fun to visit a big city near by, with my parents - but it was obvious, the exciting hustle and bustle was no substitute, for the miracles of the natural world.
.    The birth rate of hunter gatherers, is regulated by the environment, even though humans have no breeding season and are always fertile, because they can't store food, and so on.
.    Many or most animals populations are regulated by a seasonal sexual cycle and/or predation and the struggle to find sufficient food and the vulnerability of offspring, and in the cases of large mammals like elephants the length of gestation.
.    Civilization destroyed the functioning of all these natural mechanisms, and resulted in over population immediately if we define it as degrading the immediate environment, enough to lower the nutritional quality of food, and increase the work necessary to produce it. Marvin Harris books detail how this occurred over and over again in civilization after civilization.
.    After the industrial revolution (tractors) and chemical revolution (chemical fertilizers, accelerating after WWII ), this process became became exponential, with the insane population numbers we have today and the resulting devastation of the planet.
.    It is almost taboo to point this out.  The American dream is to own your own house & have 2.5 kids. But humans obviously cannot sensibly control their own birth rate. To me this is totally obvious. But humans raised in big cities, have reality filters, just as those raised in orthodox religious families have another set of reality filters.
.    Then technology, and capitalist greed gave us factory farming, especially chicken and egg farms. This is where viruses evolve, as many come from birds. And in chicken factory farms there is no sunlight, no proper exercise, and the birds are confined with their poop, which is humid and full of bacteria and viruses. Cattle feed lots also confine animals with their shit. Mad cow disease came from feeding vegetarian browsers, feed that contained as a component dead cows.
.    The evidence is clear that among human follies accelerated virus evolution, and encouraging animal to human transmission, is only one of many.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26597538 - 04/13/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

where's the con?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597549 - 04/13/20 09:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I haven’t actually watched any vids you posted, so I will edit my posts.  Thought you were saying polio wasn’t an epidemic in the country, because I was on autopilot against some trolls and fools in the pub haha, so my apologies for posting blindly. the history of polio is well documented and available to anyone who wants to know.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 09:34 AM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597561 - 04/13/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting thanks for sharing. Watched all the videos he had on polio but it's all very vague and seems mostly a platform for him selling his book to me, didn't find it convincing.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26597670 - 04/13/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

the history of polio is well documented - a history that is told to perpetuate a lie.  society's acceptance of the history of polio is used to validate the mandated use of vaccines.

polio was used as a smokescreen.  it has never been scientifically established that a virus is the cause of polio.  polio has never been proven to be contagious or infectious by the means that virologists would have you believe.  the lies were used to make the vaccine seem effective.

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Interesting thanks for sharing. Watched all the videos he had on polio but it's all very vague and seems mostly a platform for him selling his book to me, didn't find it convincing.




if Mr. Maready's videos seemed vague it's only because, he's condensing great complexity into simplified bits that anyone can take a bite out of.  he's scraping the surface of an entire counter-narrative that says viruses and bacteria are not the sole cause of infectious disease.

Quote:

"The bottom line is that the medical systems are controlled by financiers in order to serve financiers. Since you cannot serve people unless they get sick, the whole medical system is designed to make people sicker and sicker'" --Guylaine Lanctot, M.D.




if you want something more in depth:



Suzanne Humphries, MD, speaking on Polio at the Association of Natural Health Conference


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597700 - 04/13/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I will probably give it a look later but I am hesitant to look too much into anything perpetuated by the anti-vax crowd. Anybody who was around in the 60s saw very clearly the amount of misery prevented by vaccines.

To say it's a subject of great complexity is an easy argument to make and he might be somewhere in the ball park with some of his points. Of course I am just a layman so I can only go by instinct but I would rather trust the consensus of expert opinion than opinions pushed by obscure youtubers and journalists.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597756 - 04/13/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:

Quote:

"The bottom line is that the medical systems are controlled by financiers in order to serve financiers. Since you cannot serve people unless they get sick, the whole medical system is designed to make people sicker and sicker'" --Guylaine Lanctot, M.D.








This assumes that all scientists work for "big Pharma". And that all doctors are secretly evil, rather than, simply uninformed about some matters ( such as nutrition, or like everyone else uninformed about  smoking & radiation in the 1950s)

This belief requires a greater leap of faith than, does the accepted story of polio and vaccines.

The present viruses, have been inadvertently, intensified by factory farming, and Chinese wild food markets where civets and birds are stacked above each other and shit on each other, as detailed in the video linked to in my previous post here.

Human stupidity and greed seem much greater, than intentional malevolence.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26597782 - 04/13/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That the diseases have been intensified would be something I could accept and I might be interested to look further into. The claim that they are entirely man made and that vaccine use is not of value and should be stopped seems more than a few steps too far.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26597808 - 04/13/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

how can you have trust and belief in these consensus authorities and expert opinions?  the people that you claim to be reputable have been paid and bought for by big pharma.

human beings are losing quality of life for money and power. 

monopolistic corporations use mass media and social engineering to drive sales of their products.  in the US the medical industry is a monopoly, a monopoly that does not make its fortunes by curing people and preventing disease.  don't you think that blindly trusting what you have read or been told about the effectiveness of vaccines is a little bit nuts? 

polio was not eradicated, it was renamed.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597843 - 04/13/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The idea that almost the entire scientific community in the medical field has been bought and paid for by big pharma is just nuts. We are now seeing the dangers of these anti vaccination ideas in countries where they have take root and now previously eradicted diseases have come back in these areas in some instances.

I will trust my instincts to decide which expert's knowledge I defer to in any field of thought as I recognise the impossibility of being an expert in every single field of knowledge.

If Polio has only been renamed then where are all the millions of people hooked up to iron lungs now? Ask yourself if vaccines were some big pharma hoax to make money why would they be selling things that have long term effectiveness rather than obscuring the knowledge to manufacture them and instead making far greater margins manufacturing palliative care?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597850 - 04/13/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

How great is your knowledge of biology?
Did you ever read anything describing the work of  Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch  who established the germ theory of disease.
I expect without some background in science, one is not qualified to understand it.
This is true of many who believe all sorts of conspiracy theories, such as 'Flat Earthers'.
There are thousands of such people, and hundreds of conspiracy theories to choose from.
Interestingly many go from one pet theory, to believing in more and more.
I wonder why this is.
It is true that much of what most people believe is silly or simply wrong.
But to jump from this to what amounts to a form of paranoia, seems unnecessary.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26597931 - 04/13/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
.    Seems to me that at the foundation of all these problems, is an insane amount of over population. I grew up in a small town, in the 1950s. I climbed trees, played in woods, the whole town felt safe, there was a lake, an empty field with green grass, a pond, a natural history  museum, and only one small down town area with shops. The first shopping center, mostly one story buildings was a novelty at first. There were no malls anywhere, and no franchised junk food outlets or big box stores. All stores were run by local families - real unique hardware stores, separate lumber yards,  book stores without coffee shops. Parking mostly wasn't a problem.
It was safe for kids to  ride their bikes all over town. There was a natural quality of life and the wonders of nature were part of it. There were both flower & vegetable gardens.
.    It was fun to visit a big city near by, with my parents - but it was obvious, the exciting hustle and bustle was no substitute, for the miracles of the natural world.
.    The birth rate of hunter gatherers, is regulated by the environment, even though humans have no breeding season and are always fertile, because they can't store food, and so on.
.    Many or most animals populations are regulated by a seasonal sexual cycle and/or predation and the struggle to find sufficient food and the vulnerability of offspring, and in the cases of large mammals like elephants the length of gestation.
.    Civilization destroyed the functioning of all these natural mechanisms, and resulted in over population immediately if we define it as degrading the immediate environment, enough to lower the nutritional quality of food, and increase the work necessary to produce it. Marvin Harris books detail how this occurred over and over again in civilization after civilization.
.    After the industrial revolution (tractors) and chemical revolution (chemical fertilizers, accelerating after WWII ), this process became became exponential, with the insane population numbers we have today and the resulting devastation of the planet.
.    It is almost taboo to point this out.  The American dream is to own your own house & have 2.5 kids. But humans obviously cannot sensibly control their own birth rate. To me this is totally obvious. But humans raised in big cities, have reality filters, just as those raised in orthodox religious families have another set of reality filters.
.    Then technology, and capitalist greed gave us factory farming, especially chicken and egg farms. This is where viruses evolve, as many come from birds. And in chicken factory farms there is no sunlight, no proper exercise, and the birds are confined with their poop, which is humid and full of bacteria and viruses. Cattle feed lots also confine animals with their shit. Mad cow disease came from feeding vegetarian browsers, feed that contained as a component dead cows.
.    The evidence is clear that among human follies accelerated virus evolution, and encouraging animal to human transmission, is only one of many.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/





Oh yes, I think the most fundamental factor in our numerous crises is indeed a population of almost 8 billion and counting. (I mean just think about it, 8 billion people. My God.) The majority of the environmental, social, economic, political, etc., etc. issues we face -- especially the whole environmental crisis -- is a direct result of a population that went out of any reasonable control over a hundred years ago. With the whole world trying to live with a Western style of living, it absolutely does not work. And look around. It's just too many humans. I'm sure a variety of animal species agree with that.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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