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 HypnoToad
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Registered: 05/08/04
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 bay leaves... 
#2659584 - 05/10/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've found vague references to bay leaves inducing trances...
"The priests of Apollo chewed bay leaves to reach a higher level of trance when fortune-telling. They inhaled the smoke from burning new twigs or sprouts. It was a symbol of supernatural abilities."
"According to legend the Delphi oracle chewed bay leaves, or sniffed the smoke of burning leaves to promote her visionary trances"
Several years ago when having read this I rolled a bay leave ciggarette and proceed to smoke it and it does indeed induce a very focused deep trance.However I've not known anyone else who has tried this and I find no other references about bay leaves,which I find odd.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2659688 - 05/10/04 01:32 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hmm.. interesting indeed. I've got a ton of bay leaves here, might as well try chewing a few. I'll let you know if I notice anything 
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HypnoToad
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2659740 - 05/10/04 01:48 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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(nods) Yeah let me know if you feel anything. When I had smoked the bay leave cigarette it was as if the room was the only thing in existence in the entire world and I meditated for about 2 hours without so much as a thought in my head.I was focused on a candle I was burning and I just sat there with no emotion and no sense of needing anything like hunge,thirs,etc.It was as if all I needed to do in the world to sustain myself and be content was sit and meditate.I wasnt even aware of my body.I felt like I merely existed without body or shape.Perhaps I was so focused on the candle that I wasnt aware of anything but the candle and the room it was in.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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HypnoToad
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2659788 - 05/10/04 02:09 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I found a bit more info:
"Studies have shown that Bay has mild narcotic and sedative effects in mice, and therefore can be tried in a tea before bed for better sleep, or after a stressful day."
"The characteristic constituent is a liquid phenol called eugenol which has been found to have narcotic and sedative affects in mice and may repel insects."
I hadn't given any thought to my experience with bay and I hadnt tried it after that because of problems and I stopped using any sort of narcotics/ethnobotanicals for soemtime but some time ago I went back to using them as shamanic tools as aI felt it was the right time to go back to this sort of thing and then when I thought of plants to grow when I started my garden my experience with bay came back to mind and it made me curious about it.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2659840 - 05/10/04 02:41 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Mmm, it tastes pretty good for sure, besides being a bit strong. The taste itself almost has a claming effect on me, but other than that nothing else so far.
As for your experience, I've had similar experiences with meditation alone, so it's possible that the bay leaves had less of an influence than it seems.
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mr_minds_eye
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2659868 - 05/10/04 02:52 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Could it have been a placebo perhaps? Maybe freshness is an issue here. I'll try it when I get a chance though. I don't really use that stuff for anything any ways.
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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deff
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Well I have to say that after posting that I later noticed a clear headed feeling, as well as a warm sensation throughout my body, although these could possibly be accredited to placebo. I'll have to repeat this again with a much larger amount sometime
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mr_minds_eye
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2660413 - 05/10/04 05:02 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Maybe make an extract?
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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deff
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Yeah I plan on making a concentrated tea out of it soon, I hope the active chemicals are water soluble though.
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HypnoToad
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2660477 - 05/10/04 05:17 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Deff,
How many leaves did you chew?
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2660491 - 05/10/04 05:20 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just checked on Eugenol and i found this bit of info:
Eugenol is clear to pale yellow oily liquid extracted from certain essential oils especially from clove oil and cinnamon. It is very slightly soluble in water and soluble in organic solvents.
Another site said its poorly soluble in water.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2660511 - 05/10/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Maybe it likes nonpolars better.... Damn you guys are really getting into this bay leaves thing...
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
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I chewed 4 large leaves and held it in my mouth for about 10-15 minutes.
Guess I won't try to make a tea seeing how it's a waste of the active ingredient. It would be neat to try out a proper extraction of the eugenol, although I think there's a few more worthy extraction candidates lined up for me to try first. (dmt, salvinorin, LSA, ect.)
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mr_minds_eye
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Registered: 01/22/02
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2660622 - 05/10/04 05:50 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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HarveyWalbanger
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2660625 - 05/10/04 05:50 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah, It -might- be a waste, but the solubility of water goes way up when its boiling
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deff
just love everyone
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Yeah you're right, it's worth a try anyways. The worst that could happen is I waste about 46 cents worth of bay leaves and 10 minutes of my time... 
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore
Registered: 01/22/02
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2660661 - 05/10/04 06:00 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hell yeah, you only live THIS life once, and you can't remember the other ones....
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Most herbs/plant have at the least moderate/decent to excellent solubility in 100 proof vodka.Some Leaves could be chopped up and crammed into about a shots worth of vodka.If not maybe 2 shots depending on how many leaves you use.
A site also says its miscible in alcohol or in other words capable of being mixed into alcohol.
It is however soluble in acetic acid which is the main acid in vinegar.
I plan to experiment with it a bit sometime.Any substances used historically by shaman,magick users or tribes always interest me.
http://www.chemicalland21.com/arokorhi/specialtychem/perchem/EUGENOL.htm
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,428
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2660727 - 05/10/04 06:19 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hmm, then maybe a diluted vinegar/water extraction might work a bit better. I'll experiement with that soon, but I'm off to make some bay leaf tea to try
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mr_minds_eye
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2660728 - 05/10/04 06:20 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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What is its vaporisation point? You could cook it up in vinegar and then slowly cook off the vinegar and then injest that how you see fit if its stable enough. However that will make your house/apartment fucking reak.
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Eugenol has a boiling point of 254? C .
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore
Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1,948
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2660876 - 05/10/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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You'd probably be better off using some sort of organic solvent (denatured alcohol, isopro, etc) Because that's lower than ketamine's and that stuff is pretty heat sensitive. You can tell a difference in potentcy from batches cooked (from liquid) at 150 f and 200 f
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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HypnoToad
Stranger
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 325
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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"It would be difficult to isolate this oil by simple distillation since this high temperature could lead to its decomposition as well as the decomposition of other components of the cloves. However, eugenol can be isolated relatively easily from cloves usingthe technique of steam distillation. Once the aqueous distillate containing the clove oil has been obtained, the oil can beseparated from the water by extraction into the organic solvent dichloromethane."
I found this.Cloves also have eugenol as the main component.This could easily be used for bay leaves.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore
Registered: 01/22/02
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2662633 - 05/11/04 10:18 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
HypnoToad said:
I've found vague references to bay leaves inducing trances...
"The priests of Apollo chewed bay leaves to reach a higher level of trance when fortune-telling. They inhaled the smoke from burning new twigs or sprouts. It was a symbol of supernatural abilities."
"According to legend the Delphi oracle chewed bay leaves, or sniffed the smoke of burning leaves to promote her visionary trances"
Several years ago when having read this I rolled a bay leave ciggarette and proceed to smoke it and it does indeed induce a very focused deep trance.However I've not known anyone else who has tried this and I find no other references about bay leaves,which I find odd.
As far as the Oracle of Delphi, I remember hear some reference to the huffing of a naturaly occuring gas in that instance.
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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Wysefool
I AM SKELETON JELLY
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 6,643
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Just tried chewing on some leaves for about 10 minutes and sucking the juices out but the taste was pretty unbareable - I also vaporized 4-5 small leaves and felt some slight relaxing effect. But perhaps with a bit of nausea. I'd definitely like to hear more about these leaves! I always had the feeling they were special sitting there in the spice cupboard.
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 Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL
Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: Wysefool]
#2663832 - 05/11/04 03:15 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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About the oracle thing - I was talking to a friend from Greece, and he told me an interesting tidbit. It seems that the leaves they used (he didn't know the english name, but maybe it is bay leaves?) were supposed to be chewed and sucked on, but not swallowed. However, the oracles often swallowed them in an attempt to get "clearer" visions... and often died as a result. thus they had to replace oracles quite often
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mr_minds_eye
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: Krishna]
#2664034 - 05/11/04 04:13 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Kind of like mescal bean using shamen.
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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking
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Wysefool
I AM SKELETON JELLY
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 6,643
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
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Well Deff - I guess the end is near :P
Especially for you, damn I just chewed some leaves and you went and made a tea!
The Ethnobotanical forum's first casualties - yay!
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: Wysefool]
#2665040 - 05/11/04 07:29 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well I decided to try adding a generous amount of vinegar to the tea before I steeped it, and it was horrible. I could barely get a quarter of the cup down before I decided to just give up 
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: Krishna]
#2667430 - 05/12/04 04:38 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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"However, the oracles often swallowed them in an attempt to get "clearer" visions... and often died as a result. thus they had to replace oracles quite often"
If thats true Im a goner then. lmao And if they're carcinogenic IM definitely a goner roflmao Mom's lamb roast is seasoned with tons and tons of bay leaves...(chokes and falls to the floor) I do know the oracles used extremely excessive amounts.Eugenol is used widely so in moderation Its fairly safe.
Eugenol is widely used in dentistry, due to it's analgesic, antisepticand balsamic qualities. It is ideal for curative for pulp hyperemia (th esoft, sensitive substance underneath the enamal and dentine of a tooth)and pulpits. In dentistry eugenol is also used to cover cavities, fillcanals etc.
Eugenol has many other uses, some indicated below:
Antiseptics
Cosmetics
Dental analgesic
Foods
Mouthwashes
To date there has been no evidence to demonstrate a significant
carcinogenic effect of eugenol in any species.
The oracles consumed alot of leaves and also sat over alot of the smoke which I learned by experimentation seems to be much more potent and they had to of inhaled alot of it.
You can overdose on eugenol but its unlikely unless you extracted alot of the oil and consumed a good amount of it.
Excess of about 1 teaspoon (5ml) of eugenol, a volatile oil may cause nausea, vomiting and convulsions.A leave contains a very small amount it would take a huge number of leave to get in excess of a tsp of oil from it.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2667459 - 05/12/04 05:09 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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My next substance I'm going to research and test later this year is Coleus Blumei.I ordered some seed from an interesting variety and I plan to test it once its grown to a decent size which should be around 3 months from planting or so I figure.
Curiously, the Mazatec Indians may have discovered hallucinogenic properties in the leaves of several other species of mints, Coleus Blumei and C. pumila - both Old World introductions from southeastern Asia.
Wasson noted that S.divinorum was la hembra, "the female" in a family including el macho "the male", Coleus pumila Blanco and el nene or el ahijado, "the child" or "the godson", Coleus blumei Benth. - since both are Asiatic species introduced post-conquest to Mesoamerica, this datum strenghtens the argument for non-native status of S.divinorum in the Sierra Mazateca (Wasson 1963).
Those who ingest it report a 2 hour shroom-like trip.The only dosage I found listed by anyone was 50 leaves however I see it much wiser to start much lower and find a dosage level gradually.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,428
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2667607 - 05/12/04 06:19 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I doubt a commercially sold spice could be fatal if swallowed. If that's the case I'm sure many people would have been killed already from them. The carcinogens are always a possibility though, so much research is definitely needed. Coleus Blumei sounds interesting and worth checking out, good luck with that
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2667708 - 05/12/04 07:02 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Coleus Blumei sounds interesting and worth checking out, good luck with that."
(nods) I'm always in search of lesser known or new ethnobotanicals.I feel the market/availability of ethnobotanicals is quite low compared to what there actually is in the wild and the world in general.Sometime I plan to take a trip to other countries in search of new or lesser known ethnobotanicals.Even if I dont come back with any new info or ethnobotanicals, it'd still be a lovely vacation. lol The places I'd namely like to visit are certain places in south america and africa.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,428
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Re: bay leaves... [Re: HypnoToad]
#2667730 - 05/12/04 07:13 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, South America is definitely the first place I'll vacation to, as soon as I have the money heh. Even if I don't find new etheogens, trying ayahuasca in it's proper habitat would be quite enlightening
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HypnoToad
Stranger
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 Re: bay leaves... [Re: deff]
#2667835 - 05/12/04 07:58 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Definitely.   I would love to see the daily life of such tribes.I've always loved to study tribes and tribal ways of life.I think my fiancee would love it there as well and maybe she would be more open minded to enthnobotanicals.Right now she's fairly close-minded because she came from a very yuppie type of home where the word marijuana,magic mushrooms,etc were dirty words essentially.lmao Of course her parents think I came straight from hell itself because of the makeup,the clothing and especially the piercings and they especially hate me for introduce their daughter(my fiancee) to piercing and body modification roflmao
I love to torment them and really aggravate them with my piercings,clothing and makeup.I find it hilarious.
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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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