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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineThanatos10
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Death and grief
    #26591586 - 04/10/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That’s not what oneness is.

I’m just looking ahead. That they will survive this and people die every day. Death is part of life, to feel sorrow over it is to want things to be other than what they are.

So I mean it when I say you’ll get over it. Everyone does


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10] * 3
    #26591625 - 04/10/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Alright I moved your post out so we can discuss this further without derailing Asante's respectful tribute thread.


You can edit your post to make it more cohesive if you want.


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26591674 - 04/10/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

@ Thanatos :iloveyou:


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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26592451 - 04/11/20 12:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry I got busy earlier.


Wanting is part of the grieving process for most people but that is not what grief is.


Grief is feeling something is missing from life. From the world. It's knowing that something is gone and you will never see it again.


Lets say you got in an accident and lost your hand. You would naturally grieve the loss. Because some part of your life is forever gone. It's not just wanting what you can't have. It's knowing some fundamental part of life as you know it is gone forever.



And no not everyone gets over grief. People move on, life goes on, but the loss is often felt the rest of your life.



Grief is a natural part of moving on with your new life without that thing you have lost. It is part of the transition.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26592502 - 04/11/20 12:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

People say that but then they would have to reject oneness. Grief doesn’t always follow loss, it didn’t with me.

I mean it’s hard to feel sorrow when you know death is natural and will happen. To me it just seems like people haven’t accepted that yet and that’s why it hurts.

That and I’m not entirely sure other people exist and aren’t figments of my imagination.

So I’d have to say that sorrow seems for the weak hearted or the people who forget death is part of life.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26592532 - 04/11/20 01:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I dunno man I'm getting some seriously dark cynical vibes from that perspective.

Or rather that mindset quickly escalates to nothing matters so why try?


Death is apart of life. But fleeting moments are too. There's something intrinsically sad to know that good things, or just familiar things, go as easily as they come.


Knowing all this is apart of something bigger helps with the feeling of loss but it shouldn't negate it. Otherwise how do you value the moments you experience? How do value anything if you feel nothing when it goes away?



What do you feel when you lose someone?


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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 2
    #26592643 - 04/11/20 03:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I used to agree with that sentiment. I've experienced many sudden deaths of my closest loved ones. I genuinely believed that I was just somehow exempt from pain, the great irony being that I rarely wished to live and where others felt joy, the most I would get was a short reprieve from the never-ending negative and empty feelings that I felt.

One day, while over-analyzing and feeling angrier than I thought possible (self-protection only feels sadness to protect from future sadness ie. she hates me, I should give up so I won't feel rejection) and something remarkable happened. I began to weep. I suddenly saw myself as an unheard child who lost his father and is living in a scary alcoholic household. I saw the scared little kid in me who was so afraid that everyone would leave him that wouldn't allow himself to recognize his own love for others or any love he received. He was always moving forward, never slowing down enough to feel. Even when the outside world was slow, his brain raced with thoughts, never allowing him to play the emotions out like a song we've heard too many times.

Maybe you really are just different, but I don't believe it's likely. When we love people we should feel longing, sorry and grief when they're no longer in our lives.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Darwin23]
    #26592675 - 04/11/20 04:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Full in the sky ‘n the plains were bleached white with skeletons
Various species grouped together according
To their past beliefs
The only way they ever all got together was
Not in love but shameful grief
It’s not the way I’d like it t’ get together
That’s not the kind uh thoughts I’d like t’ keep."-Beefheart


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26593144 - 04/11/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
People say that but then they would have to reject oneness. Grief doesn’t always follow loss, it didn’t with me.

I mean it’s hard to feel sorrow when you know death is natural and will happen. To me it just seems like people haven’t accepted that yet and that’s why it hurts.

That and I’m not entirely sure other people exist and aren’t figments of my imagination.

So I’d have to say that sorrow seems for the weak hearted or the people who forget death is part of life.



Cool bro, if I ever lose both my hands I'm coming straight for you, since we are one and all, to wipe my ass for me :awehigh:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26593180 - 04/11/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
I dunno man I'm getting some seriously dark cynical vibes from that perspective.

Or rather that mindset quickly escalates to nothing matters so why try?


Death is apart of life. But fleeting moments are too. There's something intrinsically sad to know that good things, or just familiar things, go as easily as they come.


Knowing all this is apart of something bigger helps with the feeling of loss but it shouldn't negate it. Otherwise how do you value the moments you experience? How do value anything if you feel nothing when it goes away?



What do you feel when you lose someone?




I feel nothing. The trouble is that other people don’t understand this and expect me to be sad in their absence or to miss them but it don’t. I honestly think it’s just ego, like I’m supposed to be a wreck without you around? Where you you get off? I was fine before you came into my life and I’ll be fine after.

As I said, knowing that everything dies means I’m not sad when it eventually does. Completely negates the feeling of loss. The only hard part is pretending to care for everyone else which is annoying sometimes. It doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy moments but I know they will pass so I get the joy and none of the pain.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26593372 - 04/11/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I was thinking you were either a victim of abuse or someone with antisocial personality disorder.

I can see the way you think seems enlightened but feeling nothing is not healthy. The root word of enlightened is light. There's too much anger and resentment in your perspective to be enlightened. It's darkness.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26593394 - 04/11/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
I was thinking you were either a victim of abuse or someone with antisocial personality disorder.

I can see the way you think seems enlightened but feeling nothing is not healthy. The root word of enlightened is light. There's too much anger and resentment in your perspective to be enlightened. It's darkness.



I just recognize life for what it is and death for what it is. I don’t feel sad for losses because I knew they would happen eventually.

It’s not a matter of light or dark, it’s just how things are. There’s no anger or resentment. Why do people assume that because you don’t feel bad when “tragedy” strikes that there is something wrong. Seems more like they are envious on some level.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26593404 - 04/11/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

There's anger and resentment about feeling 'misunderstood.'

And this
Quote:

I honestly think it’s just ego, like I’m supposed to be a wreck without you around? Where you you get off? I was fine before you came into my life and I’ll be fine after.





Anger and resentment toward people in your past.




Trust me friend I've felt plenty of nothing. Nothing after losing loved ones. It was not healthy. I still struggle to let myself feel when things aren't status quo. Because I know from experience how unhealthy that is for me and the people around me.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26593438 - 04/11/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
There's anger and resentment about feeling 'misunderstood.'

And this
Quote:

I honestly think it’s just ego, like I’m supposed to be a wreck without you around? Where you you get off? I was fine before you came into my life and I’ll be fine after.





Anger and resentment toward people in your past.




Trust me friend I've felt plenty of nothing. Nothing after losing loved ones. It was not healthy. I still struggle to let myself feel when things aren't status quo. Because I know from experience how unhealthy that is for me and the people around me.




Not at all. I have hate for the people or pets that died in the past, I just recognize that sorry and grief are wasted emotions when death is a natural part of life. I mean as a kid my dream was to watch the end of the world so loss doesn’t bother me.

If you feel nothing you feel nothing, who gets to decide what is healthy or not? Like I said I think it’s people jealous of others who don’t feel crippled by such things.

I mean I didn’t feel anything when the two towers fell


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


Edited by Thanatos10 (04/11/20 12:52 PM)


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26593444 - 04/11/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

:manofapproval:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26593457 - 04/11/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Gotcha.

No I'm not jealous that I've had to deal with my crippling feelings because doing so has allowed me to strive for a healthy balance and a more fulfilling life. Ya know... being able to actually enjoy existing sometimes.


But if that's what you want to do... sure.
I think you should know though that... that's most definitely coming from a place of ego. Constructing an ego of superiority around your emotional distance because the only way to continue protecting yourself in that way is to build up more and more rationale around it.



Most people don't want to live in hate and darkness and nothing. So preaching that perspective in a thread about someone's loved one who died... yeah you're gonna get shit on for that.



You don't interpret oneness the way others do. You're using it as an excuse to not deal with your feelings. Or something. I don't know enough about you for sure. But I can say that your logic is not applicable to other people.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I just feel a little bit sad for you.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26593479 - 04/11/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
I was thinking you were either a victim of abuse or someone with antisocial personality disorder.

I can see the way you think seems enlightened but feeling nothing is not healthy. The root word of enlightened is light. There's too much anger and resentment in your perspective to be enlightened. It's darkness.



I just recognize life for what it is and death for what it is. I don’t feel sad for losses because I knew they would happen eventually.

It’s not a matter of light or dark, it’s just how things are. There’s no anger or resentment. Why do people assume that because you don’t feel bad when “tragedy” strikes that there is something wrong. Seems more like they are envious on some level.



Because that sounds like textbook sociopathathic behavior exhibited by just about every serial killer ever. I'm not trying to be mean, I've just studied the psychology  of serial killers and cult leaders for academic papers mostly. Interestingly enough a shocking amount of sociopaths never become serial killers but to a normal person not having that empathy and sympathy is generally not associated with good people whether that's misguided or not I cant say for sure but it's a good rule of thumb

I don't envy you at all I have pity and hope that you just are like Darwin23 scared and not allowing yourself to go there emotionally but it's all there being suspresed. I think he's right


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Re: Death and grief [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26593499 - 04/11/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

OP is allowed to feel nothing. There are no rules on how to emotionally survive life :shrug:

Edit: just dont hurt people for no reason and you can do/feel however you want :thumbup:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Death and grief [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26593509 - 04/11/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That's my concern. That that way of thinking tends to lead to bad things.


But :ohwell:


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 1
    #26593514 - 04/11/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah I agree. But I cant say I havent been there myself at one point. OP, just dont hurt yourself or anyone else.


--------------------
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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26593551 - 04/11/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Gotcha.

No I'm not jealous that I've had to deal with my crippling feelings because doing so has allowed me to strive for a healthy balance and a more fulfilling life. Ya know... being able to actually enjoy existing sometimes.


But if that's what you want to do... sure.
I think you should know though that... that's most definitely coming from a place of ego. Constructing an ego of superiority around your emotional distance because the only way to continue protecting yourself in that way is to build up more and more rationale around it.



Most people don't want to live in hate and darkness and nothing. So preaching that perspective in a thread about someone's loved one who died... yeah you're gonna get shit on for that.



You don't interpret oneness the way others do. You're using it as an excuse to not deal with your feelings. Or something. I don't know enough about you for sure. But I can say that your logic is not applicable to other people.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I just feel a little bit sad for you.




You couldn’t be more off. I am merely stating that oneness and feeling bad for someone dying aren’t comparable stances to take on things. To be sad about someone else dying would be to recognize that everything isn’t one.

I find it sad that recognition of death in life is equated with some mental illness. That people want you to be bothered by things to make themselves feel better. It’s like some social cue that we take to make sure we are behaving correctly.

Me, I just feel what I feel even if it is nothing. I don’t force things to make people feel comfortable or because something is an “appropriate time” to feel it. Some one dies I just move on, death comes for all.

I’m not constructing an ego of superiority, I don’t feel superior just because this stuff doesn’t affect me. I just understand how other people look on those like me.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26593577 - 04/11/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Also my inability to get over solipsism might have something to do with it .


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Re: Death and grief [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26593675 - 04/11/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not sad because we are not one. I'm sad because I'm selfish. I want to experience more with said people here in this reality who have died. That is what I am sad about.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Death and grief [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26593703 - 04/11/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah I can’t really understand all that


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