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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell.
#26590056 - 04/10/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've run into many Christians over the past couple years who deny hell, they would even read me scripture from Revelations and say it doesn't mention anything about hell yet claim to be Bible believing Christians, pure will full ignorance, I Would say there should be a Hell back than! if you believe the scriptural prophesy's than there is a Hell and we just have to except it, after all, only the bad are going there, (which I did''nt really think homosexuals and other certain types of people should go to hell), these people, particularly some Jehovah Witness's said there will be perfect peace on earth than heaven/Jesus would come and than it just gets even better from there, while quoting one liners from Revelation about how the saints go to heaven at the end of the world, while ignoring my readings of the wicked going to hell in the same book.
but something changed in me, within the past couple months, I think maybe some form of punishment for Hitler or Serial rapist could be justified, but not Eternal burning on fire, most sins are done out of kids raised poorly and of course ignorance, they just need to be explained/counseled to from the man above, set things strait, another chance in a whole new world/life, maybe karma is fitting, temporarily heavens and hell's, but I'm much more looking forward to an eternal heaven, could you send someone to burn for a thousand years? how could an all wise/all compassionate God do that? Ajahn Brahm taught the self-punishment could do that, you feel so guilty about what you did in life you create your own hell realms.
But on several of my Robotrips I've felt God saying that I'm saved and going to heaven as bad as I am, on the last trip I Strongly recommend he pass on the whole hell thing, he seemed to imply it was possible but not a clear answer (I am schizo BTW :roll eyes:).
Where supposed to pray for are enemies, if every Heaven bound Christian truly forgives and wish's mercy in heaven for the worst sinner, who is left to judge them? we will even Judge Angels according to Saint Paul, reminds of a song:
Califone - magdalene
"Forgiveness no revenge mary God and the devil bet... Jesus confuses me/ Everything's true Nothing is provable Forgiveness no revenge mary God and the devil agree"
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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qman
Stranger

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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: saintdextro]
#26590549 - 04/10/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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If god created everything, he created hell. If god is everywhere, god is in hell. If god is all knowing, he knew people were going to hell before they were born. Creating people with the knowledge they're going to end up in hell for all of eternity is a real asshole of a god.
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Connection
Wise Man!!



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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: qman]
#26591576 - 04/10/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well you don’t have to admit to the whole hell thing and eternal suffering the fact is that Hell is not real it is only a paradigm guided to bring people on the right track without the idea of hell in humans minds life would be rampant people would be hurting others babies and children and become killing machines so the idea with in it self proves clear that it serves humanity scares yes but that is to lead people onto a higher destiny track now that we know hell isn’t real and the fear game of life is coming to an end and a real heaven is coming to this earth we can all relax and take a deep breathe and truly know what it is like to be saved from sin that is how to be saved from sin construct ideas of sin and hate and justice fulfilling cruel prophecies that people know nothing about them to guide them through life smoothly and constructively the fact is nobody goes to hell forever and yes God is in hell too!! Ive seen it I’ve seen God’s face in that hell helping people through it. It is an illusion there is only Heaven Hell does not Exist Will Not Exist Doesn’t Ever Exist Now when we all figure this out collectively which you have we realize fear was the only HELL Fear was the black plague the disease the spiritual poison anxiety-inducing there was a time everybody had anxiety-disorder it was a true hell people were shaking nervous to see people nervous all the time but that was a time to enhance evolution no where in the evolution theory of science did it mention a hell of any kind nor did Buddhism speak of it and Buddha was Wise the Best Meditator in human kind he knew a lot about life and enlightenment! I’ve met God and your right even though he is a giant and speaks English and Every Language known to Human Kind and Can Talk to Trees Plants And The Earth and All microorganisms and all species in existence his main language is ENGLISH. He is an English speaking god. I wasn’t joking when I said I Met God I Can Explain About How He Is Bigger Than This Planet And how he has a giant white robe and is millions of feet tall but what does that have to do with anything. The image is not important the spirit of it all is what it really is about!! But who knows!! Life is Life And Life Constantly Changes Every Breathe You Have Changes Its Form And Breathing Rhythm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I assure you that this God of ours is not a punisher when you see this being your mind is blown your DNA is reconstructed to its final perfect form!! Your Destiny is Planned!! You are on this Path!! When The Idea Of God Enters Your Mind and Existence of it and if you actually meet god and see what he looks like your DNA is forever blown away into the cosmos!! So although God is not a punisher and judges not these constructions provide a clear example on how to live a perfect life of sinless reality you are not a sinner!! I guarantee you that with 100% trust i will give you billions of dollars for you to realize it yourself if you understood it yourself but until then carry on and shine that divine light of justice, freedom, and set an example and provide endless love and respect for your brothers and sisters that are struggling right now!! Good Day to You You Finally Realized there is no punishments or Hells just guides that lead you back to that higher place right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spend your karma well written realize you have a human body and a human soul one male one female counterparts twin souls twin flames!!!!!! 🔥 So much important information was written to guide you away from fear and serve the Only And Most High God For Oneness Enlightenment Heaven No Hell And Endless Eternity What does Eternity mean it means it never ends life never ends neither does Oneness Oneness is Love and You Are Oneness and Love ❤️
-------------------- Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: saintdextro]
#26591623 - 04/10/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Revelations clearly does not point to an eternal hell and is in no uncertain terms talking about a permanent death in the last judgement for those who don't come up to the mark. Buddhism has exactly the same thing in the Sermon of the Seven Suns.
I don't know if either are true, the Hindus seem to believe that all become enlightened in the end, but rest assured that Christianity nowhere talks about a permanent hell. They do talk about hell elsewhere but not a permanent one, I can only assume that the prophets who talked about it had in mind the same kind of temporal hell taught in Hinduism and Buddhism, revelations is not talking about hell. The lake of fire is something in hell but not hell itself, it is what the sinner is supposedly destroyed by, described as a second death or permanent sleep. In Buddhism again interestingly enough the world system is destroyed by fire in this cycle also, in other cycles they evoke the elements of air and water as the destructive force at the end of the cycle.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Connection
Wise Man!!



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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26592039 - 04/10/20 08:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah definitely really interesting their are really 2 sides to the same coin, i reflect things as they are... as i take a deep breathe in... i visualize my whole entire body becoming like water, flowing freely totally relaxed, religion is not life itself it is a depiction of some sort of higher vast expansion within us... test it yourself its not like you enter one room you are in heaven the next room you are with satan in hell life is more than just religion Life is Life! Religion is a glorification of life Spirituality is a glorification of the Universe Mysticism is a glorification of Mystics Buddhism is a glorification of Enlightenment and Meditation Hinduism is a reflection of Shiva Vishnu and so on Lord Shiva Lord Vishnu Lord Ganesha and many more multidimensional beings DMT is a reflection of the highest dimension the 12th dimension hyperspace and DMT Elves Shrooms is a glorification to the mystical hallucinations experienced through tripping meeting God through Shrooms LSD is a glorification for becoming one with the mystical side of tripping our Higher Self Connection Salvia is a Glorification for Meeting Lady Salvia I’ve met her her voice is high pitched and has a hyper dimensional wisdom advice and glorification and Mysticism of the highest Psychedelic Wisdom of truth expressed into one divine flame Hell is a representation of where bad people go but what is bad and what is good who decides God or Baal or Satan Or the Devil or Lucifer or the Angels or Prime Creator or Death?? Who knows there are no rulebooks religion is a poor rulebook that makes people dumb and unwise they are meant for the unwise calling for saviors non religious people still believe in God but know they Are Saved!! All has a purpose Nothing is Useless at all!! Don’t bash others for their believes saying I’m wrong your right that leads to nowhere and endless hate and arguments figure out what’s right for yourself and always do what is best for you expressing non duality non physical relationships non dualistic arguments no more I’m right your wrong more like I see from your viewpoint I understand why you see it this way this is how I see it and my actual demeanor on the entire subject!! That is the viewpoint on non arguing non bias-ness non wasting your time on stupid beliefs forget beliefs for a bit and look at direct experience to learn the truth yourself!!
-------------------- Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Connection]
#26592701 - 04/11/20 04:18 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sometimes life is just plain and mundane. Here we are having a discussion about the meaning of a particular scripture. My point is just that SaintDextro should go and reread this scripture because the meaning behind the "lake of fire" is not really obfuscated, I think people have got it wrong and I am confused as to exactly why but they do seem to have got it very very wrong. And yes it's just my opinion of course but I shouldn't have to spell that out.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Connection
Wise Man!!



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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26592716 - 04/11/20 04:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah we totally went off on tangents of a particular scripture but I think we squashed the whole Hell thing completely...
-------------------- Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...
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Rorge
Scoundrel


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: saintdextro]
#26598404 - 04/13/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Some get beyond annihilated.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: saintdextro] 1
#26598684 - 04/13/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think this idea of any kind of ‘permanence’ is one if the egos favourite tricks. Permanent hell, permanent happiness, permanent suffering, permanent life, permanent death etc. In truth, everything in this reality is always changing, with ups and down and ebbs and flows. Everything is always in flux. In Tibetan Buddhism they believe in the idea of ‘Hell Realms’, but these are not some place where souls go to reside permanently. It’s a temporary stop for those souls who have amassed a lot of karma and need to go to a place where they can learn some lessons and burn it off as quickly, so that they might once again rise to a lighter/higher realm and suffer as little as possible. When I look at the natural world, it seems like everything occurs in cycles and rhythms, so it makes sense for me to assume that that concept can be applied to everything, even what comes after death. There seems to be only one thing that always remains unchanging, and that is far beyond the grasp of ego, life, death, heaven or hell
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Rorge
Scoundrel


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: PocketLady]
#26598740 - 04/13/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Burn it off and ascend for some. Burn it off and descend for most? Damn I’d just rather be reincarnated.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Rorge] 1
#26598753 - 04/13/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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That is their idea of reincarnation. There are many realms and this physical Earth is one of them. You reincarnate to whichever realm is in sync with your current level of karma. I’m not saying it’s how it is, but for those that believe in a benevolent God, it makes a lot more sense than eternal damnation. In a system like that, it’s about growth and development of the soul, rather than eternal punishment.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Rorge
Scoundrel


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: PocketLady]
#26599301 - 04/13/20 11:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well if I’m reincarnated l just wonder where it’ll be.
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: saintdextro]
#26599333 - 04/14/20 12:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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hell hell
heaven heaven
water water
stone stone
sky sky
earth earth
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Babylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Fiery]
#26600636 - 04/14/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Who would choose to condemn any person to eternal suffering? If a human did that they would be about as evil as a person could be right? Even Hitler didn't condemn anyone to anything eternal, they died and the suffering was over (at least at his hands)
So if there is a hell God is more evil than Hitler...
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Babylon] 1
#26601121 - 04/14/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think there is definitely a hell in some form. You can go there in this life and see examples of many people who are living in hellish states on a near permanent basis right now, just take a trip down to the local loony bin. If there is another life it would make sense that it mirrors this life and that there would be hellish states with some level of consistency there too.
Nothing to do with an evil god, we know nothing about god even supposing he exists. God might be good and yet permit hell for reasons we cannot understand. But we can easily see for ourselves that good and evil are a part of the nature of things as they stand now.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26601450 - 04/14/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hell is the absence of (g)God or order. Do not think a loving (g)God is fingerblasting the "FIRE" button.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26602180 - 04/15/20 06:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's rarely totally absent. A loving society might accept punishment as a part of reform, why not a loving god?
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Babylon
Shaman


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26602410 - 04/15/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: That's rarely totally absent. A loving society might accept punishment as a part of reform, why not a loving god?
Punishment as part of reform is not, and cannot be, eternal. It is the eternity of hell that is monstrous.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Babylon]
#26602623 - 04/15/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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We are in hell already, imprisoned by our minds.
The idea of us going somewhere WORSE after here was the church's greatest trick of all, used successfully to control people using fear for centuries (and still is, although less successfully in many places).
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
#26602639 - 04/15/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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If the illusion of mind is a hellish prison... we have one hell of a prison ward baby! He didn’t put a single lock on the door, and the place’s ornamentation is exquisite, it’s diversity innumerable, and it’s potential capabilities unsurpassable.
Each in their prison, Thinking of the key, Each confirms a prison. - t s. Elliott
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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SirTripAlot
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26602674 - 04/15/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Would a loving society accept eternal burning and torture as a just punishment?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26602687 - 04/15/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: If the illusion of mind is a hellish prison... we have one hell of a prison ward baby! He didn’t put a single lock on the door, and the place’s ornamentation is exquisite, it’s diversity innumerable, and it’s potential capabilities unsurpassable.
But what if the illusion isn't the mind... the illusion is the physical universe and the mind is the only thing real?
Indeed it is one hell of a prison ward. All shiny and beautiful with all the temptations... that's why the locks aren't needed 
We choose to stay here and chase after happiness in the ephemeral, never quite finding anything lasting...
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,657
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26602700 - 04/15/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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It’s might be better understood for some as an allegory, an esoteric wisdom teaching wrapped in a story of warning of the consequences of our own actions in life and the places we can find ourselves in because of them. - and the places we may find in ourselves and how to watch out for them and remain vigilant so that the paths leading to them may be avoided with vigilance!
For those that cannot or will not fathom the aforementioned , a literal interpretation can cater to the more unassuming type who need an exoteric version of the harder to discern truths of life, and for some that is best. For some it may not be helpful, and they can discard the story, or understand the mechanics behind a story and by virtue of perceiving it have an inherent understanding of the message without the baggage...diminishing or removing the need for another’s interpretation.
It’s not just one or the other, it can be understood dynamically.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
#26602711 - 04/15/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: If the illusion of mind is a hellish prison... we have one hell of a prison ward baby! He didn’t put a single lock on the door, and the place’s ornamentation is exquisite, it’s diversity innumerable, and it’s potential capabilities unsurpassable.
But what if the illusion isn't the mind... the illusion is the physical universe and the mind is the only thing real?
Indeed it is one hell of a prison ward. All shiny and beautiful with all the temptations... that's why the locks aren't needed 
We choose to stay here and chase after happiness in the ephemeral, never quite finding anything lasting...
I take a non dual view approach to self/other , mind/body. So whatever things actually are, my primordial awareness reflects only true; although, my interpretation after the fact is due to my intellect, which can only approximate, and by virtue of it being approximation is only true in terms of degrees.
So beyond the duality play of “its this” or “its that” , beyond “is” or “isn’t” , beyond that multifarious intellect , primal non dual awareness illuminates true, like a perfect mirror, only my intellects interpretations of the forms and events reflected by the mirror of primal nondual awareness can be categorized as right or wrong; however, the mirror itself is untouched by everything it reflects. Like a mirror confronting a form, it leaves not a trace behind, beyond beyond beyond.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/15/20 11:25 AM)
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26602755 - 04/15/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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No probably not, but again I don't see anywhere in the bible that claim being made. I'm also hesitant to say I see anywhere the claim that god is some kind of programmer who popped into existence and made quite literally everything from scratch. What others have made of it seems to be that but it doesn't seem to actually be a claim being made in the bible. In the Indian traditions certainly they depict creation as a sort of drunken act done by god in a very haphazard manner.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26602857 - 04/15/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Genesis is the biblical mythic account of creation by God. No where in it is there an overt or explicit line about hell, or it’s creation, nada. The “fall” resulting from original sin is akin to hell - hell he’ll being the farthest one can perceive themselves being from God. It is illustrated by the story as depicting ones degree, or magnitude of separation from God. How I understand the story of the fall can be elucidated from some lines from one of longchenpa rinpoche’s writings that goes:
/start
“In unchanging basic spaciousness, the vast sky of mind's nature, a space of unstructured brilliance and emptiness, flawless buddha-reality shines like the stars as the spontaneity of inseparable being and awareness.· This intrinsic clear light, with its perfect responsive spontaneity, this is our original, natural state of being, known as basic immaculate magical illusion.
But in that very space, pure presence is lost, clouds of delusion arising adventitiously, for ignorance, like sleep, is a dream-maker. The spoiled mind, mistaking unity for duality, in its loss of pure presence spawns the universal delusion, the six mythic modes of beingt in their environments. Just like dream, they are seemingly real but without existence, and we feel the misery or the joy of each of them”.
/end
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/15/20 01:53 PM)
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SirTripAlot
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
#26603032 - 04/15/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Great response....you are correct that that specific claim is not in the Bible; yet, I would guess that over half of Christians believe or are taught that (recovering Baptist here). I do believe in sometype of eternal reckoning or justice but it is past what we can comprehend.....if (g) God is indeed Alpha and Omega, there is no way to conceive of this, due to our human condition.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (04/15/20 01:38 PM)
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26603380 - 04/15/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I do believe in sometype of eternal reckoning or justice but it is past what we can comprehend.....
Have you ever asked yourself why you believe that?
(I am not arguing or taking a stance either way, I'm just curious) For the longest time I believed the same until I really started asking myself why, and the only answer I could come up with was because I wanted there to be. The idea that god would make defective humans and then punish them for it seems curious to me, still. I dunno, it's an interesting question for sure.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
#26603501 - 04/15/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess it is a hail Mary (no pun intended) for me to hope that the ills of this world/reality will be corrected in some way. Guess it makes me feel better to belive in something like that, similar to what you posted....a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. I sure hope there is a god/being/force to address suffering and evil.
You and I are not unique when pondering this; Descartes:
P1: I know a proposition only if I can rule out the possibility of it being false.
P2: If I am being deceived by an evil demon then all propositions I believe are false.
C1: Therefore, in order to know a proposition I need to rule out the evil demon possibility.
P3: I cannot rule out the evil deceiver possibility.
2: Therefore, I lack knowledge.
Referance https://www.mytutor.co.uk/answers/13881/A-Level/Philosophy/Outline-Descartes-evil-demon-argument-and-explain-what-he-says-about-knowledge-of-the-self/
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26603514 - 04/15/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hence the archetypal mythic being/deity/god/entity/force which has the power to cast a spell of magical illusion upon man being found throughout history in various cultures and world religions.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Fiery]
#26604585 - 04/16/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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The creators left us keys to unlock the potential of the homo sapien (AKA HUMAN) mind.
No need to look beyond the original DNA.
Which science is doing right now building a super race of babies.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 15 hours
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26605872 - 04/16/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wonder if it isn't our own strange decision to fool ourselves and then blame it on an external demon/being of whatever sort that could account for our inability to see things correctly (ie; we see all humans as separated beings instead of 'we are all one' as it should be, but isn't seen) and never truly know anything.
I think it's our own senses/ego that deceive us. As is common, many past civilizations up to and including ourselves project this onto an external source; hence the devil and other mythological creatures.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
#26606043 - 04/16/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said: I wonder if it isn't our own strange decision to fool ourselves and then blame it on an external demon/being of whatever sort that could account for our inability to see things correctly (ie; we see all humans as separated beings instead of 'we are all one' as it should be, but isn't seen) and never truly know anything.
I think it's our own senses/ego that deceive us. As is common, many past civilizations up to and including ourselves project this onto an external source; hence the devil and other mythological creatures.
From timeless ignorance, ignorance is the first cause in any line of thought. So in a sense what follows is an approximation of an accurate reflection yet is also delusiveness. But the stories of it being externalized are way to conceptualize an aspect of experience in our lives and understand a thing that was no intrinsic being via the literature device of allegory. Interdependent origination and by extension of that interconnectivity = what is one this board called oneness. Although, because reality itself is beyond just one descriptor, It’s perfectly one, perfectly dualistic, and perfectly pluralistic, and a hyper nameless 0 sum game.
It’s nondual, except for when viewed through or experienced through an embodied being - then how it seems is a matter of how the aperture one looks through is structured and functions, Like with us - dualistic perception of subject and object separation is a matter of the structure and function of the body itself, and being so, illusory in the sense that it can be be subjected to change via something as simple as a chemical affecting our structure/function of the body so as to temporarily cease the conditions necessary for its expression as so.
Our normal way of seeing things is also dependent upon the electrochemical norms that constitute homeostasis, but that too is a fake in that its only real so long as the electrochemical state is continued, it changes during sleep - and there we are so convinced of our hallucinations that we usually don’t realize that everything in the dream and the dream itself is just our own fabrication that we make while laying in bed! Only recognize for what it is after the fact/event. Hence how a fungus can perform the same feat of elucidating the nature of mind by showing it is not fixed, and be return to the normal state of mind afterwards we see this state too is subject to impermanence, change, not self, suffering etc. and with each state comes its own matrix of experience of reality.
Absent yet apparent. The spoiled mind mistakes unity for duality.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/16/20 03:11 PM)
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26609524 - 04/18/20 03:31 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I tend to agree but like you say there is little point pontificating overly much about the various strange and inconceivable futures man might be in for while there's still living to be done, except for a little amusement, que sera and all that.... who am I kidding I'm sure I'll find a way to torture myself with it somehow...
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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