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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26602674 - 04/15/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Would a loving society accept eternal burning and torture as a just punishment?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26602687 - 04/15/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If the illusion of mind is a hellish prison... we have one hell of a prison ward baby!  He didn’t put a single lock on the door, and the place’s ornamentation is exquisite, it’s diversity innumerable, and it’s potential capabilities unsurpassable.




But what if the illusion isn't the mind... the illusion is the physical universe and the mind is the only thing real? 

Indeed it is one hell of a prison ward.  All shiny and beautiful with all the temptations... that's why the locks aren't needed :lol:

We choose to stay here and chase after happiness in the ephemeral, never quite finding anything lasting...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26602700 - 04/15/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It’s might be better understood for some as an allegory, an esoteric wisdom teaching wrapped in a story of warning of the consequences of our own actions in life and the places we can find ourselves in because of them. - and the places we may find in ourselves and how to watch out for them and remain vigilant so that the paths leading to them may be avoided with vigilance! 

For those that cannot or will not fathom the aforementioned ,  a literal interpretation can cater to the more unassuming type who need an exoteric version of the harder to discern truths of life, and for some that is best.    For some it may not be helpful, and they can discard the story, or understand the mechanics behind a story and by virtue of perceiving it have an inherent understanding of the message without the baggage...diminishing or removing the need for another’s interpretation.

  It’s not just one or the other, it can be understood dynamically.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
    #26602711 - 04/15/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If the illusion of mind is a hellish prison... we have one hell of a prison ward baby!  He didn’t put a single lock on the door, and the place’s ornamentation is exquisite, it’s diversity innumerable, and it’s potential capabilities unsurpassable.




But what if the illusion isn't the mind... the illusion is the physical universe and the mind is the only thing real? 

Indeed it is one hell of a prison ward.  All shiny and beautiful with all the temptations... that's why the locks aren't needed :lol:

We choose to stay here and chase after happiness in the ephemeral, never quite finding anything lasting...




I take a non dual view approach to self/other , mind/body.  So whatever things actually are, my primordial awareness reflects only true; although, my interpretation after the fact is due to my intellect, which can only approximate, and by virtue of it being approximation is only true in terms of degrees.


So beyond the duality play of “its this” or “its that” ,  beyond “is” or “isn’t” , beyond that multifarious intellect , primal non dual awareness illuminates true, like a perfect mirror, only my intellects interpretations of the forms and events reflected by the mirror of primal nondual awareness can be categorized as right or wrong;  however, the mirror itself is untouched by everything it reflects.  Like a mirror confronting a form,  it leaves not a trace behind, beyond beyond beyond.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/15/20 11:25 AM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26602755 - 04/15/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No probably not, but again I don't see anywhere in the bible that claim being made. I'm also hesitant to say I see anywhere the claim that god is some kind of programmer who popped into existence and made quite literally everything from scratch. What others have made of it seems to be that but it doesn't seem to actually be a claim being made in the bible. In the Indian traditions certainly they depict creation as a sort of drunken act done by god in a very haphazard manner.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26602857 - 04/15/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Genesis is the biblical mythic account of creation by God.  No where in it is there an overt or explicit line about hell, or it’s creation, nada.
The “fall” resulting from original sin is akin to hell - hell he’ll being the farthest one can perceive themselves being from God.
  It is illustrated by the story as depicting ones degree, or magnitude of separation from God.  How I understand the story of the fall can be    elucidated from some lines from one of longchenpa rinpoche’s writings that goes:

/start

“In unchanging basic spaciousness, the vast sky of mind's nature, a space of unstructured brilliance and emptiness,
flawless buddha-reality shines like the stars
as the spontaneity of inseparable being and awareness.· This intrinsic clear light, with its perfect responsive spontaneity, this is our original, natural state of being,
known as basic immaculate magical illusion.

But in that very space, pure presence is lost,
clouds of delusion arising adventitiously,
for ignorance, like sleep, is a dream-maker.
The spoiled mind, mistaking unity for duality,
in its loss of pure presence spawns the universal delusion, the six mythic modes of beingt in their environments.
Just like dream, they are seemingly real but without existence, and we feel the misery or the joy of each of them”.

/end


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/15/20 01:53 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26603032 - 04/15/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Great response....you are correct that that specific claim is not in the Bible; yet, I would guess that over half of Christians believe or are taught that (recovering Baptist here).  I do believe in sometype of eternal reckoning or justice but it is past what we can comprehend.....if (g) God is indeed Alpha and Omega, there is no way to conceive of this, due to our human condition.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (04/15/20 01:38 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26603380 - 04/15/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I do believe in sometype of eternal reckoning or justice but it is past what we can comprehend.....




Have you ever asked yourself why you believe that?

(I am not arguing or taking a stance either way, I'm just curious)  For the longest time I believed the same until I really started asking myself why, and the only answer I could come up with was because I wanted there to be.  The idea that god would make defective humans and then punish them for it seems curious to me, still.  I dunno, it's an interesting question for sure.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
    #26603501 - 04/15/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I guess it is a hail Mary (no pun intended) for me to hope that the ills of this world/reality will be corrected in some way. Guess it makes me feel better to belive in something like that, similar to what you posted....a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. I sure hope there is a god/being/force to address suffering and evil.

You and I are not unique when pondering this; Descartes:

P1: I know a proposition only if I can rule out the possibility of it being false.

P2: If I am being deceived by an evil demon then all propositions I believe are false. 

C1: Therefore, in order to know a proposition I need to rule out the evil demon possibility.

P3: I cannot rule out the evil deceiver possibility.

2: Therefore, I lack knowledge.

Referance
https://www.mytutor.co.uk/answers/13881/A-Level/Philosophy/Outline-Descartes-evil-demon-argument-and-explain-what-he-says-about-knowledge-of-the-self/


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26603514 - 04/15/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hence the archetypal mythic being/deity/god/entity/force which has the power to cast a spell of magical illusion upon man being found throughout history in various cultures and world religions.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Fiery]
    #26604585 - 04/16/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The creators left us keys to unlock the potential of the homo sapien (AKA HUMAN) mind.

No need to look beyond the original DNA.


Which science is doing right now building a super race of babies.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26605872 - 04/16/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder if it isn't our own strange decision to fool ourselves and then blame it on an external demon/being of whatever sort that could account for our inability to see things correctly (ie; we see all humans as separated beings instead of 'we are all one' as it should be, but isn't seen) and never truly know anything.

I think it's our own senses/ego that deceive us.  As is common, many past civilizations up to and including ourselves project this onto an external source; hence the devil and other mythological creatures.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: Forrester]
    #26606043 - 04/16/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
I wonder if it isn't our own strange decision to fool ourselves and then blame it on an external demon/being of whatever sort that could account for our inability to see things correctly (ie; we see all humans as separated beings instead of 'we are all one' as it should be, but isn't seen) and never truly know anything.

I think it's our own senses/ego that deceive us.  As is common, many past civilizations up to and including ourselves project this onto an external source; hence the devil and other mythological creatures.




From timeless ignorance, ignorance is the first cause in any line of thought.  So in a sense what follows is an approximation of an accurate reflection yet is also delusiveness.  But the stories of it being externalized are way to conceptualize an aspect of experience in our lives and understand a thing that was no intrinsic being via the literature device of allegory.  Interdependent origination and by extension of that interconnectivity = what is one this board called oneness.  Although, because reality itself is beyond just one descriptor,  It’s perfectly one, perfectly dualistic, and perfectly pluralistic, and a hyper nameless 0 sum game. 

It’s nondual, except for when viewed through or experienced through an embodied being - then how it seems is a matter of how the aperture one looks through is structured and functions,
Like with us - dualistic perception of subject and object separation is a matter of the structure and function of the body itself, and being so, illusory in the sense that it can be be subjected to change via something as simple as a chemical affecting our structure/function of the body so as to temporarily cease the conditions necessary for its expression as so.

  Our normal way of seeing things is also dependent upon the electrochemical norms that constitute homeostasis, but that too is a fake in that its only real so long as the electrochemical state is continued, it changes during sleep - and there we are so convinced of our hallucinations that we usually don’t realize that everything in the dream and the dream itself is just our own fabrication that we make while laying in bed!  Only recognize for what it is after the fact/event.  Hence how a fungus can perform the same feat of elucidating the nature of mind by showing it is not fixed, and be return to the normal state of mind afterwards we see this state too is subject to impermanence, change, not self, suffering etc.  and with each state comes its own matrix of experience of reality.


  Absent yet apparent.    The spoiled mind mistakes unity for duality.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/16/20 03:11 PM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: I've seriously come to the point where I don't want there to be a Hell. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26609524 - 04/18/20 03:31 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I tend to agree but like you say there is little point pontificating overly much about the various strange and inconceivable futures man might be in for while there's still living to be done, except for a little amusement, que sera and all that.... who am I kidding I'm sure I'll find a way to torture myself with it somehow...


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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