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Offlinelostintimenspc
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The West * 2
    #26587854 - 04/09/20 02:01 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The West is the individual's strange call to a certain promise of a transcendental freedom in the future, taken collectively, something more dear to human yearnings than the church was able to promise, something more realistic and applicable to our state of affairs, a kind of evolution of man's social and spiritual principles now that he was safe; a kind of certainty that freedom is a standard and if only we could base our vulnerability on moral principles, the highest set of which is moral autonomy, instead of mortality, that we could be fearless because our conviction cannot be destroyed, whereas the body and the ego are in a milieu of many probabilities and relies on the parameter of being fortunate. The common man's basic instinct is that his body and its basicness must be preserved. The higher, far more plentiful approach to life in the West is that we must base our preservation on moral principles and the resultant gestalts that pertain to a higher social, spiritual and perceptual life, such that we never get to the point where we demand the body and ego must be preserved, for that is a lower side effect of following the freed psyche into an experience of morally obtained meaning, empowerment and perception, which finally and utterly eclipses the parameters that give rise to existential fears and gives life the ante of not a journey from birth to death but from birth to rebirth and renewal, and cyclic death; that is, merciless and repeated submersion into the essential human qualities which drive the stark premise that we even want to exist at all, and exhausting the momentum each time, on the now emboldened forecast that the truth, however we find it through our human apprehension of our very own selves, shall set us free.

Thanks for reading and I hope you got something out of what I had to say. :smile:

We need a new 70s.

Really.

:heart:


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26587863 - 04/09/20 02:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Are you going to mass this Sunday?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26587872 - 04/09/20 02:20 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No?

What's your angle there? I mention the church in reference to separation of church and state.

I reject the church and say we have evolved past it, keeping the same effective principles intact, at least among our intelligentsia.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26587926 - 04/09/20 03:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

What do you think it might take for society to transcend?

America is on a trajectory to oblivion this weekend.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26587952 - 04/09/20 04:17 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Mortality. Society needs to switch off the bio-survival circuit and go up to the 5th circuit. What is fear of death? It's an a concrete thing, is it... Death is some kind of presence in the lower circuits of consciousness that makes us form strategies for survival. Society is our strategy for survival now, we need to turn off the circuit and go higher.

That is to say, we need to be high. They were high in the 70s. We need to advance cognition to an extent, personally, so that we are high all the time. Terence McKenna talks a lot about this.

Really, the best tool to understanding anything, is your mind, and this applies to the present moment. What is this?

An LSD trip, according to Hoffman himself, is simply a magnification of the present...

:lsd:

:heart:


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26588023 - 04/09/20 05:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

New 70s would likely be just the same as the old 70s. As it always has the world needs something fresh, but there's no real telling what form it might take if something does come. It could be a totally unprecedented and unexpected direction.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc] * 1
    #26588056 - 04/09/20 05:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
The West is the individual's strange call to a certain promise of a transcendental freedom in the future, taken collectively, something more dear to human yearnings than the church was able to promise, something more realistic and applicable to our state of affairs, a kind of evolution of man's social and spiritual principles now that he was safe; a kind of certainty that freedom is a standard and if only we could base our vulnerability on moral principles, the highest set of which is moral autonomy, instead of mortality, that we could be fearless because our conviction cannot be destroyed, whereas the body and the ego are in a milieu of many probabilities and relies on the parameter of being fortunate. The common man's basic instinct is that his body and its basicness must be preserved. The higher, far more plentiful approach to life in the West is that we must base our preservation on moral principles and the resultant gestalts that pertain to a higher social, spiritual and perceptual life, such that we never get to the point where we demand the body and ego must be preserved, for that is a lower side effect of following the freed psyche into an experience of morally obtained meaning, empowerment and perception, which finally and utterly eclipses the parameters that give rise to existential fears and gives life the ante of not a journey from birth to death but from birth to rebirth and renewal, and cyclic death; that is, merciless and repeated submersion into the essential human qualities which drive the stark premise that we even want to exist at all, and exhausting the momentum each time, on the now emboldened forecast that the truth, however we find it through our human apprehension of our very own selves, shall set us free.

Thanks for reading and I hope you got something out of what I had to say. :smile:

We need a new 70s.

Really.

:heart:



I agree with your values, and I think they have come out of the west but are not values of the west, but human values.
The separation of church and state, the end of slavery, the end of racism, depends upon a charter of rights and freedoms which is something some countries like Canada (in the west)  have been working with, and other countries have been experimenting with and extending.

We do have to go further than Canada to protect the bodies and minds of all citizens (people): basic income, basic shelter, basic education, basic communications, basic access to all services. Beyond the basics, we have to open up to amazing possibilities in creativity and commerce, as well as environmental conservation and exploration.

keep it basic and real, so no McKenna, hahah!


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:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The West [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26588172 - 04/09/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

You agree with "merciless and repeated submersion" in discomfort leading to an 'exhaustion of the momentum' of the will to live?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The West [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26588205 - 04/09/20 07:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

not a chance - let me re-read,
ahh, yes, I see the verbiage!
this is an extrapolation that I do not consider valid, and there are a few, all of which subtend from superstition (theories of afterlife and god(s)), and not from the basic realities of human life, and ensuring that with that life, rights and freedoms are offered and accessible.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The West [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26588213 - 04/09/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I think the OP's 'West' can be traced to a Hell's Angels source.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The West [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26588329 - 04/09/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hells angels are only half bad.

that's why they are angels, but of course the name is all superstition


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The West [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26588366 - 04/09/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The attribution of Hell might be a designation of the lack of free will in pawns that can be eradicated without explanation in support of a cause.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The West [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #26588622 - 04/09/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

license to be bullies - simpler and more meaningful


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26589689 - 04/09/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

A
Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
The West is the individual's strange call to a certain promise of a transcendental freedom in the future, taken collectively, something more dear to human yearnings than the church was able to promise, something more realistic and applicable to our state of affairs, a kind of evolution of man's social and spiritual principles now that he was safe; a kind of certainty that freedom is a standard and if only we could base our vulnerability on moral principles, the highest set of which is moral autonomy, instead of mortality, that we could be fearless because our conviction cannot be destroyed, whereas the body and the ego are in a milieu of many probabilities and relies on the parameter of being fortunate. The common man's basic instinct is that his body and its basicness must be preserved. The higher, far more plentiful approach to life in the West is that we must base our preservation on moral principles and the resultant gestalts that pertain to a higher social, spiritual and perceptual life, such that we never get to the point where we demand the body and ego must be preserved, for that is a lower side effect of following the freed psyche into an experience of morally obtained meaning, empowerment and perception, which finally and utterly eclipses the parameters that give rise to existential fears and gives life the ante of not a journey from birth to death but from birth to rebirth and renewal, and cyclic death; that is, merciless and repeated submersion into the essential human qualities which drive the stark premise that we even want to exist at all, and exhausting the momentum each time, on the now emboldened forecast that the truth, however we find it through our human apprehension of our very own selves, shall set us free.

Thanks for reading and I hope you got something out of what I had to say. :smile:

We need a new 70s.

Really.

:heart:




Hard to chose an appropriate dressing for a word salad like this, perhaps blue cheese
or roquefort, with a nice glass of zinfandel  to wash it down.


Edited by laughingdog (04/10/20 07:35 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc] * 1
    #26591422 - 04/10/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
The West is the individual's strange call to a certain promise of a transcendental freedom in the future, taken collectively, something more dear to human yearnings than the church was able to promise, something more realistic and applicable to our state of affairs, a kind of evolution of man's social and spiritual principles now that he was safe; a kind of certainty that freedom is a standard and if only we could base our vulnerability on moral principles, the highest set of which is moral autonomy, instead of mortality, that we could be fearless because our conviction cannot be destroyed, whereas the body and the ego are in a milieu of many probabilities and relies on the parameter of being fortunate. The common man's basic instinct is that his body and its basicness must be preserved. The higher, far more plentiful approach to life in the West is that we must base our preservation on moral principles and the resultant gestalts that pertain to a higher social, spiritual and perceptual life, such that we never get to the point where we demand the body and ego must be preserved, for that is a lower side effect of following the freed psyche into an experience of morally obtained meaning, empowerment and perception, which finally and utterly eclipses the parameters that give rise to existential fears and gives life the ante of not a journey from birth to death but from birth to rebirth and renewal, and cyclic death; that is, merciless and repeated submersion into the essential human qualities which drive the stark premise that we even want to exist at all, and exhausting the momentum each time, on the now emboldened forecast that the truth, however we find it through our human apprehension of our very own selves, shall set us free.

Thanks for reading and I hope you got something out of what I had to say. :smile:

We need a new 70s.

Really.

:heart:




Please, sum up your block of text in 30 words.  Do it.  :trap:


I think I contracted cancer from reading and analyzing the whole thing just now like I was back at Uni....so ya owe me bubba!


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26592726 - 04/11/20 04:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

*Alan Watts has entered the chat*


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The West [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26592795 - 04/11/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

oh good


--------------------
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InvisibleHunter hunter
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Re: The West [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26610595 - 04/18/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Have you been smoking DMT?  That shit fucks with you.  Try spacing the doses and your text.


--------------------





    Eat the meat that’s at your feet.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: The West *DELETED* [Re: Hunter hunter]
    #26611897 - 04/19/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by sudly

Reason for deletion: Dfh


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26614234 - 04/20/20 02:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah I have been smoking DMT actually,

but yeah.

Word salad is harsh man. You need to chill. I just said nice things. :smile:


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26614245 - 04/20/20 02:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The West rn;


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26614246 - 04/20/20 02:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Ohhh sudly...


                :putin:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/20/20 02:29 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: The West [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26619076 - 04/22/20 12:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

And president Trump just wished Kim Jong Un well.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The West [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26619083 - 04/22/20 01:05 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Wild Wild West...

We going to..

The..

:excuseme:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The West [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26623181 - 04/23/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Inject fukin disinfectant or sunlight :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh no..

I think they're going medieval, :haha:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26623215 - 04/23/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Inject fukin disinfectant or sunlight :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh no..

I think they're going medieval, :haha:




How does I get teh sunlight to stay in syringe?

:underage:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26623619 - 04/23/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
And president Trump just wished Kim Jong Un well.




2 peas in a pod, have some things in common...

...probably envy each other.
Trump envies  Kim Jong's absolute power.
Kim Jong envies Trump's (or the USA's) nukes, & war machine.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: The West [Re: sudly]
    #26797348 - 07/01/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said: America is on a trajectory to oblivion this weekend.






--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26798343 - 07/02/20 02:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
We need a new 70s.



You mean 60s, not 70s.

Anyway, there is no "the west." There are just people with different ideas and values and cultures, and many of them are in conflict or contradict one another. Especially with the internet, the whole world now is exposed to many of the same ideologies and cultures, and different people believe wildly different things the world over.

And even if "the west" exists, then "the east" has been influencing "the west" and vice versa for so many generations now that the distinction between the two is not as important as the distinction between different groups of people with different values inside of any given country or place. And if "the west" exists then it includes Russia which I only mention because Russia has this huge stick up their ass about not being part of the west even though they always have been.

But it doesn't exist. There are just different people with different ideas and values no matter where you go. Categorizing things into "the west" and "the east" is just intellectual laziness.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The West [Re: nooneman]
    #26798365 - 07/02/20 02:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Agreed. 
And yet we do it anyways, imputing it like it’s a real thing, like as if a border line drawn on a map showing where one country starts and another begins is a real occurrence to be found in nature and on the earth.  And then we reify & reify it until it nearly concretizes in our minds as real - when it’s just fabricated convention.  As if the intellect were seemingly setup to perceptually & conceptually dualize.


--------------------
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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: The West [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26798628 - 07/02/20 06:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Some interesting paragraphs from Jung's 1945 essay "After the Catastrophe" :

The European, or rather the white man in general, is scarcely in a position to judge of his own state of mind. He is too deeply involved. I had always wanted to see Europeans through other eyes, and eventually I was able, on my many journeys, to establish sufficiently close relationships with non-Europeans to see the European through their eyes. The white man is nervous, restless, hurried, unstable, and (in the eyes of non-Europeans) possessed by the craziest ideas, in spite of his energy and gifts which give him the feeling of being infinitely superior. The crimes he has committed against the coloured races are legion, though obviously this is no justification for any fresh crime, just as the individual is no better for being in a vast company of bad people. Primitives dread the sharply focussed stare in the eye of the European, which seems to them like the evil eye. A Pueblo chieftain once confided to me that he thought all Americans (the only white men he knew) were crazy, and the reasons he gave for this view sounded exactly like a description of people who were possessed. Well, perhaps we are. For the first time since the dawn of history we have succeeded in swallowing the whole of primitive animism into ourselves, and with it the spirit that animated nature. Not only were the gods dragged down from their planetary spheres and transformed into chthonic demons, but, under the influence of scientific enlightenment, even this band of demons, which at the time of Paracelsus still frolicked happily in mountains and woods, in rivers and human dwelling-places, was reduced to a miserable remnant and finally vanished altogether. From time immemorial, nature was always filled with spirit. Now, for the first time, we are living in a lifeless nature bereft of gods. No one will deny the important role which the powers of the human psyche, personified as "gods," played in the past. The mere act of enlightenment may have destroyed the spirits of nature, but not the psychic factors that correspond to them, such as suggestibility, lack of criticism, fearfulness, propensity to superstition and prejudice—in short, all those qualities which make possession possible. Even though nature is depsychized, the psychic conditions which breed demons are as actively at work as ever. The demons have not really disappeared but have merely taken on another form: they have become unconscious psychic forces. This process of reabsorption went hand in hand with an increasing inflation of the ego, which became more and more evident after the sixteenth century. Finally we even began to be aware of the psyche, and, as history shows, the discovery of the unconscious was a particularly painful episode. Just when people were congratulating themselves on having abolished all spooks, it turned out that instead of haunting the attic or old ruins the spooks were flitting about in the heads of apparently normal Europeans. Tyrannical, obsessive, intoxicating ideas and delusions were abroad everywhere, and people began to believe the most absurd things, just as the possessed do.
The phenomenon we have witnessed in Germany was nothing less than the first outbreak of epidemic insanity, an irruption of the unconscious into what seemed to be a tolerably wellordered world. A whole nation, as well as countless millions belonging to other nations, were swept into the blood-drenched madness of a war of extermination. No one knew what was happening to him, least of all the Germans, who allowed themselves to be driven to the slaughterhouse by their leading psychopaths like hypnotized sheep. Maybe the Germans were predestined to this fate, for they showed the least resistance to the mental contagion that threatened every European. But their peculiar gifts might also have enabled them to be the very people to draw helpful conclusions from the prophetic example of Nietzsche. Nietzsche was German to the marrow of his bones, even to the abstruse symbolism of his madness. It was the psychopath's weakness that prompted him to play with the "blond beast" and the "Superman." It was certainly not the healthy elements in the German nation that led to the triumph of these pathological fantasies on a scale never known before. The weakness of the German character, like Nietzsche's, proved to be fertile soil for hysterical fantasies, though it must be remembered that Nietzsche himself not only criticized the German Philistine very freely but laid himself open to attack on a broad front. Here again the Germans had a priceless opportunity for self-knowledge—and let it slip. And what could they not have learned from the suet-and-syrup of Wagner!
Nevertheless, with the calamitous founding of the Reich in 1871, the devil stole a march on the Germans, dangling before them the tempting bait of power, aggrandizement, national arrogance. Thus they were led to imitate their prophets and to take their words literally, but not to understand them. And so it was that the Germans allowed themselves to be deluded by these disastrous fantasies and succumbed to the age-old temptations of Satan, instead of turning to their abundant spiritual potentialities, which, because of the greater tension between the inner opposites, would have stood them in good stead. But, their Christianity forgotten, they sold their souls to technology, exchanged morality for cynicism, and dedicated their highest aspirations to the forces of destruction. Certainly everybody else is doing much the same thing, but even so there really are chosen people who have no right to do such things because they should be striving for higher treasures. At any rate the Germans are not among those who may enjoy power and possessions with impunity. Just think for a moment what anti-Semitism means for the German: he is trying to use others as a scapegoat for his own greatest fault! This symptom alone should have told him that he had got on to a hopelessly wrong track.“ ~Carl Jung, CW 10, pars. 431-433


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/02/20 06:17 AM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The West [Re: nooneman]
    #26816767 - 07/11/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
We need a new 70s.



You mean 60s, not 70s.

Anyway, there is no "the west." There are just people with different ideas and values and cultures, and many of them are in conflict or contradict one another. Especially with the internet, the whole world now is exposed to many of the same ideologies and cultures, ....

....




Not quite--I doubt millions in Africa, India, China, North Korea, or in all the slums of the world have access to internet the way we do. It is either censored, or poverty you cannot imagine, prevents it.

And this is not even taking up the issues of literacy, or enough education to understand anything someone else might read to them or show them on the internet.

In terms of commerce, and shipping of food and oil, and virus spread, and the nuclear threat-- yes it is "one world".

But in in terms, of quality of life and what human experience feels like, and any conception of what is happening on the planet at large, humanity is very far from any kind of real interconnection. Even the opponents in the racial conflict in the USA, have more in common than much of humanity does with one another, in my opinion.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The West [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26817383 - 07/11/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
Yeah I have been smoking DMT actually,

but yeah.

Word salad is harsh man. You need to chill. I just said nice things. :smile:




I see a semi-colon but you need to work on eliminating run-on sentences. There is value in your suppositions at least with regard to metaphysical speculation on the Myth of the Eternal Return (M. Eliade), so I'm not poo-pooing the content but the delivery needs work (I know from my own tendency to do the same for which my wife helps me edit).

The case of Western religion does place "in the future" as you write  in the first line, but it takes place in kairos-time not chronos-time which:

In the New Testament, "kairos" means "the appointed time in the purpose of God," the time when God acts (e.g. Mark 1:15: the kairos is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand). "Kairos" (used 86 times in the New Testament)[19] refers to an opportune time, a "moment" or a "season" such as "harvest time," [20] whereas "chronos" (used 54 times)[21] refers to a specific amount of time, such as a day or an hour (e.g. Acts 13:18 and 27:9). -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairos  Kairos time "is an intersection with Eternity." (Ibid)

I think even St. Paul misunderstood that the kingdom of God was not an event in time (as Eckhart Tolle maintains) and that the meaning of the word imminent ('at any moment') was confused with the theological notion of immanent meaning "God is immanent in His creation: pervasive, pervading, permeating; omnipresent, ubiquitous, present everywhere; rare permeative, suffusive, permeant. ANTONYMS transcendent" - Wiki. Paul admonished  people not to marry for example because the world as he knew it was about to end with Iesous returning in  clouds of glory, and there was no marriage in the kingdom of God/Heaven. But the End did not arrive because he was looking for this in kronos-time, as a historical event (as fundamentalist Christian continue to do today) not in kairos-time. As Tolle explains, one enters into the kingdom of God (which he expresses as 'entering into Being') when one ceases to identify exclusively with ones temporal existence as egoic-mind-body. “[T]he kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, but men do not see it.” - Logion 113, The Gospel of Thomas

In other words, the biblical 'end times' harkens back to Daniel 12:9 which is apocalyptic then as in the New Testament, but this is the language of Jewish midrash and of myth. There may well come an apocalyptic end of the world, say, an asteroid striking earth and causing an extinction event. After all, the Book of Revelations says in 6:13 that "the stars will fall from the sky" but the Greek word for star, aster (as in *asterisk*) can only mean asteroid since we have science and the ancients didn't with regard to celestial bodies. Every bright thing was a 'star,' planets included as 'movable stars' and the constellations were of 'fixed stars.' Stars cannot "fall" to earth, that is absurd, but asteroids can and have! But I digress.

The cosmological end of the world from an asteroid strike is not the same thing as the Christian Parousia of 'Second Coming" [i.e., of Christ] but the word parousia does mean "being present" as in Eckhart Tolle's meaning. Heaven as the metaphysical Presence of God is a spatial metaphor, a place. Souls are said to 'go to heaven' not 'go to, or return to God' as that violates the theist's absolute transcendence of God apart from human beinghood. The ancients constantly conflated the physical heavens with metaphysical Heaven just as Hell's Underworld was depicted in physically volcanic terms. The Book of Revelations mentions brimstone (Sulphur) six times including 20:10 which specifies the hellish scenario as being "cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Mythic time is similar to kairos-time, time here actually being a temporal metaphor for a timeless reality just as Heaven is a spacial metaphor for a non-spatial reality. The human psyche can experience Eternity but It cannot be expressed in language other than the mythic, metaphorical, or poetic which is as close to non-linear experience as language can get. As for cyclical existence, transmigration is a punishment in Judaism for having failed to produce children in violation of the commandment in Genesis 1:28. It is called Gilgul. It is akin to the Hindu concept of reincarnation not the Buddhist concept of rebirth where the anatta/anatman doctrine denies the existence of a discrete soul that transmigrates, only recycled 'pieces' (samskaras). Under which condition any of these schemes may exist remains speculative. There is ample evidence of 'past-life' experiences but depending upon the idiom the question arises to whom do these experiences belong? Are they MY past-life experiences or have I simply 'channelled' them from the void from someone's else's life? Clearly on one level there is separateness of existential human beings but is this merely apparent separateness like we might point to separate waves on the one ocean?


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