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InvisibleZippoZM
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live salvia to salvinorin to blotter PROJECT COMPLETE 7-18
    #2658766 - 05/10/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well i am soon to have 250 thriving salvia plants thanks to the wonders of cloning. once i have a few hundred grams of dried leaf i am planning to follow this extraction guide from erowid (it has quality pictures) link to extractoin guide
then i plan to lay it to blotter at 250cg per hit, as per chinacats LSD to blotter post in ODD.



here is my dilema.
while i can order 99% IPA from the internet for this extraction, i do not think i can find naptha, what can i substitute for it?

\i have heard that mineral spirits work, and last i checked paint thinner was 100% mineral spirits but that is anecdotal information.

i have also heard of xylene or tolulol (sp) being interchangable with naptha. both of which i can get.
are there any other things i can substitute for naptha?

thanks
zippoz


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


Edited by zippoz (07/18/04 10:32 PM)


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2658817 - 05/10/04 02:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Have you looked into any of the cold acetone methods?


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2659143 - 05/10/04 12:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I highly reccommend the acetone method.
but lsd style blotter is not reccommended.

oral absorption requires something more than soaked paper. (serious chewing will be involved)

I reccommend using cigarette paper instead and after dosing cut it to 20 strips with 500 mics each. (if you don't like the oral method you can very conveniently smoke them which is like smoking air but very effective)

add 10 mg salvinorin evenly (in acetone) to each cigarette paper in stages (you have to compute the drops from your density after extraction and redissolving for putting on paper. drying time is nearly instantaneous.

later it is easy to chew a bunch of these or smoke one or 2 in a quick ignition from a regular lighter in any kind of pipe.

250 micrograms is too weak.

storing the paper is convenient and you can choose your method of use at any time, you can even drop them in wine or tea.

smoking this way is my best favourite way to have salvia, and bothers lungs not at all.


Edited by redgreenvines (05/10/04 12:07 PM)


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2659436 - 05/10/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I highly reccommend the acetone method.
but lsd style blotter is not reccommended.

oral absorption requires something more than soaked paper. (serious chewing will be involved)

I reccommend using cigarette paper instead and after dosing cut it to 20 strips with 500 mics each.




this dosent make any sense to me, pure having been placed on blotter, would not require any chewing for absorption. and cigarette papers, or rolling papers are so thin that they could not possibly absorb 500 mikes. one could coat the surface, but this paper method that you advise would not allow for any long term storrage.

but thw question at hand is what can i substitute for naptha?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineHowardo
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2659677 - 05/10/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

paints stores will have naptha, if that helps. that's where i got it.


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: Howardo]
    #2659830 - 05/10/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Home Depot


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2659891 - 05/10/04 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

welll im going to home depot right now. thanks


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2659910 - 05/10/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Have fun.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2660104 - 05/10/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i now have naptha, but i also picked up some de-natured alcahol, can it be substituted for Isopropyl alcahol in this extraction?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2660434 - 05/10/04 07:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sure. I would probably rather use it than isopro. I usually use acetone, but I have had good results from usind denatured alcohol. I think it evaporates a little slower than the other two though. Honestly though, I think that patience is one of the greatest virtues learned from working with/growing etho/ethnogenic substances. Just put it in the sun or under a fan and it will do its thing.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2660507 - 05/10/04 07:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This may not be on topic, but I would suggest trying perhaps 100micrograms before you put half a milligram on blotter.

On Erowid it says "a few tenths of a milligram is too strong for some people" (at the bottom of the page you supplied).


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2661899 - 05/11/04 05:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

right it is not absorbed it is coated - very good.
no substitute for naptha to get the tarry waxes off.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #2661917 - 05/11/04 05:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

100 micrograms is well under threashold smoked, if you put less than threashold smoked you are making it very hard to work in the mouth where you need at least 10 times as much.
most people need ~4000mics or 10000mics orally.

if you need to it is easy to tear them in half etc.
and if you find you prefer smoked, blotters are too heavy, but cig paper is perfect.

during extraction acetone is very clean evaps fast and is not a problem if you accidentally get some internally, the problems with acetone are with breathing fumes over a long period of time.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2663812 - 05/11/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

100 micrograms is well under threashold smoked, if you put less than threashold smoked you are making it very hard to work in the mouth where you need at least 10 times as much.
most people need ~4000mics or 10000mics orally.



redgreenvines if i took your advise i would probably end up hurting someone or myself quite badly. i would like to see a source for your above information and im sure that others here would as well


Quote:

Ott has indicated that salvinorin A can also be taken sublingually, and is active in even smaller doses, with as little as 100 to 250 mcg. producing noticeable effects. Ott used a solution of salvinorin A in acetone in his sublingual tests, and also reported that DMSO can be used as a solvent for this purpose.



and heres the source http://www.lavondyss.com/donut/dose.html

so with this information i would assume it not only possible but probable that salvinorin would be incredibly active at 250 micrograms and am going to reduce the dosage of the blotters to 100 micrograms.

btw what is DMSO?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2663888 - 05/11/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno exactly what it is, but from shrromery threads, I gather its a carrier molecule. It's most famous for allowing substances to seep right into the skin...


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Offlineesin
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2663896 - 05/11/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Redgreenvines info on dose may actually be accurate.
Well the experiences Ott ran were with Salvinorin-A disolved in acetone and DMSO (Dimethyl Sulfoxide).

Both these solvents can penetrate the skin very well and take everything that's disolved in it to the bloodstream very quick. Even stuff that wouldn't penetrate the skin on its own.

That's probably how he got off on 100/250ug - even less than the required smoked dose.

Actually DMSO is used to dose some drugs (and medication, i believe) transdermally. Has a huge power to make stuff go into your bloodstream from the skin.

I heard acetone too, the problem is that it is much more volatile than DMSO so it ends up evaporating before it penetrates the skin. In the mouth this shouldn't be a problem, though.
Acetone is more easily metabolized by your body than DMSO too, i recently heard.

I always extract salvia with acetone. Just don't use plastics if you use acetone, it will readily melt and dissolve them.

As far as doses of pure salvinorin go, I wouldn't trust what anyone blurts out on these forums. Just try first with very small amounts (maybe 50-100ug) and work your way up until you find your confortable dose.

Probably your best bet for sublingual would be to disolve the pure salvinorin in acetone. Calibrate solution so that one drop has the required dose. Than you're set.
If you decide you want to smoke just lay a drop or 2 on some smoking material like cigarrete paper or a bit of weed, tobacco, or plain salvia; just let it dry and smoke.

Good Luck  :smile:


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2664017 - 05/11/04 06:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well the idea for this whole project was to create salvia blotters, i have read else where that the active oral dose was around 100 ug

"Dosage:
Sublingual/Chewed
100 mcg sublingual, threshold

Vaporized
200-500 mcg
" from http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=156
but most likely this was taken from ott's studies.

but since savinorin could be absorbed by chewing the natural leaves, i would assume that acetone would not be necissary to acheive effects.
quids are reportedly about 15 leaves. i suppose the question would be how much salvinorin is in those 15 leaves, and how much is absorbed wihtout the aid of DMSO or acetone


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2664018 - 05/11/04 06:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what is the difference between acetone and IPA


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2664361 - 05/11/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am experienced with it and I am a soft head.
(over 200 uses)

dmso is available from dr. jacob's in the USA, they just stopped shipping to canada (border problems with the material), it is good for tincs (but my wife complained I smelled of scallops) and good for other uses. it is a great cleaning solvent and the best linament for sore muscles:

dimethylsulfoxide
..H. O .H..
H.C.-S-.C.H
..H. .H..

acetone is a solvent too
..H. O .H..
H.C.-C-.C.H
..H. .H..

acetone could be called DMCO (dimethylcarboxide)
almost the same as DMSO except DMSO is good medicine and acetone is a little too reactive - burns, fumes hurt on prolonged exposure and unconsciousness or death if you drink a glass of it, but a few drops or spoons is not a problem just too hot on the tissues.
DMSO you can actually drink, but it might give a headache if you take too much. also dmso evaps very slowly and is oily while acetone is kinda between alcohol and ether.

anyway dmso is good for tinc (but would not give you anything spectacular with 100 mics) and you should obtain at least 70% from dr.jacob online if you are going for it.

acetone is fast evaporator and a much more powerful solvent than IPA.
people fear it unnecessarily, but it is highly flamable and you need your wits about you if you use it.

I just spilled a fair bit on my hands doing an extraction - a bit sloppy in my first pour off. It felt cold and evaporated immediately.
No problem.

I spilled onto wood over concrete in my garage - no flames anywhere there ever.

anyway if you make something with salvinorin, you will want to make is strong as possible, then dilute to suit the usage. If the paper is too strong - cut them smaller.

if the tinc is too strong add water or alcohol (note it is extremely unlikely that you will make a tinc that is too strong - Emerald essence is remarkably strong and still stores as stable solution. I doubt you could match it except with dmso.)



the following is really reversed information, and "threashold" means subtle not interesting (mostly unnoticeable) it gets intersting at level 34&5:

Dosage:
Sublingual/Chewed
100 mcg sublingual, threshold

Vaporized
200-500 mcg


Edited by redgreenvines (05/11/04 07:15 PM)


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: live salvia --> salvinorin --> blotter solvent question [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2665783 - 05/12/04 12:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There was lots of stuff over at the spiritplants forums about extracting and making blotter, I rarely visit there though so I don't know if you can still find it. Search for posts by Camel for the blotter stuff.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Amazon Shop for: Rolling Papers, Salvia

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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