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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Whats your opinion?
#26586999 - 04/08/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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If God does not exist - nor a different dimension than ours in which we live - then existence and life are meaningless. You understand that right?
Why care about anything other than yourself then? Nice people finish last, right? Seems that those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
Strange though, if God did not exist. How can the entire universe just explode into existence - if there is no underlying dimension to explode and start from?
Edited by shroomening (04/08/20 06:26 PM)
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,531
Loc:
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Quote:
shroomening said:those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
Come to the dark side
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thirdeyewild



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 794
Loc:
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God is someone else's idea. Ideas are just shit in someone else's head.
Don't be a shithead.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Beware of the error of believing you know something about that which you are truly ignorant of. A human believing they can piece together the entire Cosmos and all phenomena exactly, is folly, like a monkey trying to pass the mcats, or something.

-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
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thirdeyewild



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 794
Loc:
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Teaching a child religion is mind-rape and abuse. Freedom of thought for all!
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Asclepius
Human Being



Registered: 01/09/18
Posts: 2,209
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Discussion of infinite regress doesn't provide substantial evidence for a god's or gods' existence. I think our morals, while they are subjective, can still hold meaning for us and others. Sometimes when I think about, the idea of there being no god(s) makes what finite time we have on this earth all the more precious.
-------------------- A society governed in terms of double standards is self-destructive
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Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
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If there's no God why would there be a Satan?
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Salomon]
#26587108 - 04/08/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Is it wrong to do bad things?
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
shroomening said:those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
Come to the dark side 
Haha
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Beware of the error of believing you know something about that which you are truly ignorant of. A human believing they can piece together the entire Cosmos and all phenomena exactly, is folly, like a monkey trying to pass the mcats, or something.
 
So you mean that one should stay in the middle of believing - and not believing - because neither is possible to prove?
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: A human believing they can piece together the entire Cosmos and all phenomena exactly, is folly, like a monkey trying to pass the mcats, or something.
 
It does seem like an exercise in futility. And can never be 100% proven. Sure some "educated" theories may be more accepted than others, but are we ever going to know beyond a shadow of a doubt how this mind shattering universe began? No.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Asclepius]
#26587116 - 04/08/20 07:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asclepius said: Discussion of infinite regress doesn't provide substantial evidence for a god's or gods' existence. I think our morals, while they are subjective, can still hold meaning for us and others. Sometimes when I think about, the idea of there being no god(s) makes what finite time we have on this earth all the more precious.
But what is the meaning of that precious time, if there is neither God nor another dimension - and you will die soon?
Why does nature want to survive all the time, how can life be created when there was only matter? Feels like life and matter belong to two different dimensions that have been welded together into one. Do not understand how life can arise from matter, from say a stone.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Salomon]
#26587121 - 04/08/20 07:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Salomon said: If there's no God why would there be a Satan?
I guess I mean the ego when I say Satan.
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thirdeyewild



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 794
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The birth of the universe (and life) was mathematically impossible not to have happened. God is folly. Religion is a tool for the weak minded.
Edited by thirdeyewild (04/08/20 07:19 PM)
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: The birth of the universe (and life) was mathematically impossible not to have happened.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: The birth of the universe (and life) was mathematically impossible not to have happened. God is folly. Religion is a tool for the weak minded.
How was that impossible? And mathematically? If so, who/what putted the math there to start from? Sounds like its pre-coded, like matrix, lol.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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I believe God exists as evidence by the seemingly infinite nature of the Universe (it seems to go on forever) and the fact that the Universe is about 13.8 BILLION years old already: https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html
Im not sure I believe in Satan but i do know dark spiritual forces do exist.
But its my belief that God is 100% interlaced with the Universe and exists in some form at a higher, more complex dimension of time and space.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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shroomening

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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said:

Crazy_Horse, you're funny lol
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thirdeyewild



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 794
Loc:
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If you have a mathematical possibility of something occurring, given enough times (or rolls of the dice if you will)that possibility will occur. If life was a possibility it is a probability given enough time.
(yes I'm drinking)
Edited by thirdeyewild (04/08/20 07:43 PM)
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: I believe God exists as evidence by the seemingly infinite nature of the Universe (it seems to go on forever) and the fact that the Universe is about 13.8 BILLION years old already: https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html
Im not sure I believe in Satan but i do know dark spiritual forces do exist.
But its my belief that God is 100% interlaced with the Universe and exists in some form at a higher, more complex dimension of time and space.
I see Satan as a evil part of our inner self, such as the ego, and fear - which fuel the ego. Nothing outside of us. I believe only God is outside us - and inside us. One with everything.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Quote:
shroomening said: Seems that those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
What's your definition of success?
The happiest and most content people I know tend to be the most honest and genuine also, often even generous too.
I've given up on trying to figure anything out, I went to school for perceptual neuroscience and also studied physics after getting into psychedelics and wanting to better understand reality. I think I know a lot less about it all now than I did when I was a child, in a way
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: The birth of the universe (and life) was mathematically impossible not to have happened.
It can also be described to be mathematically improbable and near impossible depending on the context from which you speak. Context defines probability.
The probability of something existing is a 100% if it exists. Yes. It's a semantic statement that checks out. But it doesn't really say anything about anything else. Without knowing another variable to provide context from, we can hypothesize a scenario where the probability of existence is different from 100%, and where knowing that it is 70% or 0% likelihood doesn't change the nature of it existing in the first place.
In the grand scheme, the statement that it exists and is therefore mathematically certain doesn't say anything except for the statement itself. That the statement has an epiphanous aura about it really boils down the the semantics of it all, but it doesn't truly say anything about gods or origins.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: If you have a mathematical possibility of something occurring, given enough times (or rolls of the dice if you will)that possibility will occur. If life was a possibility it is a probability given enough time.
(yes I'm drinking)
Yes but mathematical possibility, does math even have possibilities? 1 + 1 = 2, there is no possibility of it becoming 3?
And if you reverse your math to the beginning, then they say that everything started from a singularity. From there, mathematics should have had even less "possibilities" to become other than what mathematics was already destined to become - and then to become ever more advanced in its mathematics, the longer everything spreads along the course of infinity.
The question is still what started the math itself?
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thirdeyewild



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 794
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Reminds me of a dream I had about 20 years ago. I dreamt I was God and controlled the entire universe with math. I felt so powerful and brilliant. And then I multiplied to whole universe by zero. I'd make a shitty God.
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thirdeyewild



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 794
Loc:
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Math is observable fact. A base to observe facts from. Not the new Jesus.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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The only thing that any of us can ever really be certain of in this universe and in reality itself is that zZZz will come in here eventually to tell us that he loves us.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: feevers] 1
#26587218 - 04/08/20 08:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Damn...your right... zZZ’s love is a universal constant?!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: feevers]
#26587225 - 04/08/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: Math is observable fact. A base to observe facts from. Not the new Jesus.
Math is a language from which you can describe reality. It is not observable fact anymore than English is, but it can be used to describe factual happenings. It can be as much factual as it can be theoretical, and can even be factually incorrect.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Confirmed
zZzz is god .
Argument finally put to rest.
The Great Matter is settled.
/end thread
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: feevers]
#26587233 - 04/08/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
shroomening said: Seems that those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
What's your definition of success?
The happiest and most content people I know tend to be the most honest and genuine also, often even generous too.
I've given up on trying to figure anything out, I went to school for perceptual neuroscience and also studied physics after getting into psychedelics and wanting to better understand reality. I think I know a lot less about it all now than I did when I was a child, in a way
Actually, in my eyes, real success is what you mention. That true success is measured in happiness.
But I thought more about success in the way the majority of the world sees success - that is, money and matter.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said:
Religion is a tool for the weak minded.
I'm not religious at all. Haven't been to church since I was a kid.
But I disagree with this. Highly. There are plenty of deeply religious people out there who have done great, great things. People who have left a mark on this world. None of which had to do with religion. Say what you will about their religious beliefs but to say that they were "weak minded" as human beings and thus inferior to yourself (I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume you see yourself as "strong minded" which would make them lesser) would be false.
Muhammad Ali, for example, was highly religious -- would you consider him weak minded?
--------------------
HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Asclepius
Human Being



Registered: 01/09/18
Posts: 2,209
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Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Beware of the error of believing you know something about that which you are truly ignorant of. A human believing they can piece together the entire Cosmos and all phenomena exactly, is folly, like a monkey trying to pass the mcats, or something.
 
So you mean that one should stay in the middle of believing - and not believing - because neither is possible to prove?
There's always Pascal's wager. And really you could apply the concept to any religious or spiritual belief system, not merely the Judeo-Christian faiths.
-------------------- A society governed in terms of double standards is self-destructive
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: Is it wrong to do bad things?
Quote:
thirdeyewild said: Reminds me of a dream I had about 20 years ago. I dreamt I was God and controlled the entire universe with math. I felt so powerful and brilliant. And then I multiplied to whole universe by zero. I'd make a shitty God.
Haha, maybe that´s how everything will end!
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla] 1
#26587243 - 04/08/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
thirdeyewild said:
Religion is a tool for the weak minded.
I'm not religious at all. Haven't been to church since I was a kid.
But I disagree with this. Highly. There are plenty of deeply religious people out there who have done great, great things. People who have left a mark on this world. None of which had to do with religion. Say what you will about their religious beliefs but to say that they were "weak minded" as human beings and thus inferior to yourself (I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume you see yourself as "strong minded" which would make them lesser) would be false.
Muhammad Ali, for example, was highly religious -- would you consider him weak minded?
Agree. And if anything - faith is hard.
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Asclepius
Human Being



Registered: 01/09/18
Posts: 2,209
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Quote:
I believe only God is outside us - and inside us. One with everything.
That sounds a bit like Gnosticism. I'm not knocking you for it, just an observation.
-------------------- A society governed in terms of double standards is self-destructive
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StarryCorpse



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Even if there is no god theres still a point in living. Why not stick around cuz who knows whats what when you die you may just cease to exist and thats fucked so might as well enjoy your stay.
Im not religious by any means but do try and look at nature with spiritual meaning. There are vast interworkings in nature that are more expansive and beyond the simplicity of modern man.
-------------------- Tacos
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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What can be revealed by a web of speculative concepts? The mind's imputations are our mental constructs and even if absolute emptiness could be evoked, we are left only with belief in the natural state of being. What can be known by any pointing out, when the point lies beyond the pointing and the pointed out? And contentious debate is futile, vain speculation, and the nature of mind is still unknown.
The sensory world, environment and beings, happy and sad feelings and mood-swings, all absent yet perceptible, are like ominous shadows cast by a lamp, like a double image appearing when the eyeball is pressed, like projected fears on a dark night. They exist only at face value, vanishing under examination, while deep insight reveals their wide-open nature that is uncreate, like the sky, timeless primordial reality. We can see it in this moment, here and now.
- by some old guy in a cave
More old guy sayings from the cave-
Start++
Through that virtue may all beings without exception perceive all situations as unoriginated illusory evanescence, and achieve higher and higher understanding beautified by the buddha-trikaya. Abandoning the intellect that craves security in what is only dream, magic show, mirage, reflection, echo and apparition, let primal awareness and spontaneity regain their primacy. Once obsessed by the carnal city and emotions, now fled from the thick jungle of uncertainty to cool groves far distant, let the heavens extol and acclaim those babes. May this, my mind, loathing distraction, in happy seclusion in the peaceful forest, focussing only upon real meaning, achieve the immaculate insight of the exalted. In this forest of flowers, leaves and fruit, enhanced by the clear waters of a renunciate lifestyle, may this my embodiment of unique occasion and right juncture, walk the path of freedom to the treasure of profound meaning.
In this brief transit, until I attain my goal, practising virtue in this world of men, on the path of peace, realizing skilful means, may I release incalculable beings from this fictive world. This method is the essence of the buddhas' profound teaching and as it carries the import of all experiential truth, with desire for freedom, we should strive from the heart, day and night, without slackening, living it fully. Those of later generations, fortunate and faithful, should depend upon these words at all times, and crossing over the worldly ocean of self and other, the dual purpose of all beings is spontaneously achieved. This yogi with all-penetrating eyes, seeing the meaning of sutra and tantra and the essential meaning of all precepts, Drimey Wozer, graced by stainless radiance, composed this text in a cave at Gangri Tokar. This sun of dharma with its myriad stainless rays- primal awareness shining-dispels the darkness of unknowing, emptying the ocean of samsara to its last drop, revealing the unbounded continent of freedom
End - - -
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 08:27 PM)
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Asclepius] 1
#26587269 - 04/08/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asclepius said:
Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Beware of the error of believing you know something about that which you are truly ignorant of. A human believing they can piece together the entire Cosmos and all phenomena exactly, is folly, like a monkey trying to pass the mcats, or something.
 
So you mean that one should stay in the middle of believing - and not believing - because neither is possible to prove?
There's always Pascal's wager. And really you could apply the concept to any religious or spiritual belief system, not merely the Judeo-Christian faiths. 
True, true. But with that said, I kinda have my religion. The religion of the Magic Mushroom - which I consider to be kinda synergistic with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Seems to me like both speak truthfully. WHO IS WITH ME??
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Asclepius]
#26587274 - 04/08/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asclepius said:
Quote:
I believe only God is outside us - and inside us. One with everything.
That sounds a bit like Gnosticism. I'm not knocking you for it, just an observation.
Or just "trinity"? The father, the son and holy spirit.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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I am I am
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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I am the blind ass!
...
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: Is it wrong to do bad things?
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I am the blind ass!
...

Haha
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: Teaching a child religion is mind-rape and abuse. Freedom of thought for all!
Not sure there is such a thing as freedom of thought, in fact you saying that is telling others what to think. In fact pretty much everything in this thread is. At this point wherever I hear “freedom of thought” I just roll my eyes.
I think we have a good grasp on the universe and how it works. People talking about the “hubris” of knowing the cosmos is overplaying it a tad. Sure there are unanswered questions but we are working on them. As for how it all began, we don’t really know and for that matter does it really matter how? What good would it do to know that?
And for the OP without God life isn’t not meaningless. That’s just what the church tries to sell you
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
thirdeyewild said: God is someone else's idea. Ideas are just shit in someone else's head.
Don't be a shithead.
That’s the pot calling the kettle black
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Pretty sure none of that is true. We do understand how the world and universe works well enough, the problem is that understanding how it works doesn’t mean we can control it.
Also such eastern philosophizing is really just brain chemistry which is something they couldn’t have known then. Our senses aren’t perfect but they’re all we got so I wouldn’t knock what they yield and I’m not gonna take the word of the subjective experiences of a meditator as claims about the truth of reality.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Albeit we’ve done pretty good as a species in terms of understanding ourselves and the cosmos at large, but that’s in light of the fact that every other species that ever existed on earth doesn’t even have toilet paper.
In the grand scheme our understanding of the mechanics and tech of the reality of phenomena as cosmos is currently like this:

Still that’s okay, we’re doing well enough without a real standard to compare ourselves to, and we keep on adapting and learning as we go on and on, generation after generation. Picking up some steam for a while too, but approximations and models are just that, approximations and models and what may ultimately prove one day to be myopic hubris or genius. The middle path wins.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 09:29 PM)
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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I like to believe there is some sort of grand author to this story. The specifics? Nobody knows. Simulation?..... ancient astronaut theorists say:.....wait and see
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Albeit we’ve done pretty good as a species in terms of understanding ourselves and the cosmos at large, but that’s in light of the fact that every other species that ever existed on earth doesn’t even have toilet paper.
In the grand scheme our understanding of the mechanics and tech of the reality of phenomena as cosmos is currently like this:

Still that’s okay, we’re doing well enough without a real standard to compare ourselves to, and we keep on adapting and learning as we go on and on, generation after generation. Picking up some steam for a while too, but approximations and models are just that, approximations and models and what may ultimately prove one day to be myopic hubris or genius. The middle path wins.
Not true at all. There isn’t a “middle path” there is just getting closer and doing a little better than before but as for the cosmos we actually don’t have much left to go in that one. It’s far from a rubics cube and more like a jigsaw. The big questions are those we can’t really see like what started it all (which isn’t really important I think).
Buddhism is nice and all but as far as understanding reality it’s still pretty “woo” in that regard.
There is no hubris at all though, those who say that don’t know the people doing the work to dig for answers. Most people in science I know are rather humble, they just don’t tolerate people who think they know it all based on whatever fairy tale they have.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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You can believe whatever you want but that doesn’t make it so. I see no reason to think there is a grand author. It’s comforting but it’s more like telling kids Santa Claus exists.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Right ... keep trying I suppose!
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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 09:41 PM)
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flickedbic
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26587458 - 04/08/20 09:39 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I had been a strong atheist for most of my life before I realized I was making a claim I could not support, and became a weak agnostic.
I think there is evidence for God, and I know of no potential God with greater evidence than the Christian God.
Science shows the big bang was the origin of the universe, it was not past eternal.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/427722/mathematics-of-eternity-prove-the-universe-must-have-had-a-beginning/amp/
Beyond this, the universe is clearly finely-tuned for life.
"If the Holye state didn’t exist, stars could not produce the abundance of carbon they do. Carbon is the basic element upon which life is built. If it were scanter in the universe, life wouldn’t exist, down to the simplest microbes. And it wasn’t clear, for a long time, how the Hoyle state worked, just that it must: After all, here we are.
More recently, scientists have pointed out that if one tweaks many of the dimensionless physical constants — numbers like pi that are independent of units and simply exist as fundamental ideas — none of the cosmos we see would exist. One of these numbers is omega, the density parameter, which pits gravity’s pull against the expanding push of dark energy. If gravity were stronger, the universe would have long since ceased expanding, and would have collapsed back down in a reverse Big Bang, often called the “Big Crunch.” If dark energy were stronger, then the universe would race away from itself so that no matter would stick together and stars, planets, and people could never form.
If the cosmos were truly a random and senseless arrangement of particles, it seems eerie or suspicious to many that these two forces balance so delicately.
(...)
The universe does seem fine-tuned for our existence."
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2018/11/are-the-laws-of-the-universe-fine-tuned-for-life
"For more than 400 years, physicists treated the universe like a machine, taking it apart to see how it ticks. The surprise is it turns out to have remarkably few parts: just leptons and quarks and four fundamental forces to glue them together.
But those few parts are exquisitely machined. If we tinker with their settings, even slightly, the universe as we know it would cease to exist. Science now faces the question of why the universe appears to have been “fine-tuned” to allow the appearance of complex life, a question that has some potentially uncomfortable answers."
https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/a-universe-made-for-me-physics-fine-tuning-and-life
Also see:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/royal-institute-of-philosophy-supplements/article/explaining-the-fine-tuning-of-the-universe-to-us-and-the-fine-tuning-of-us-to-the-universe/95CC982CD14F823618C0991FF0074099/core-reader
---- https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/is-the-universe-fine-tuned-for-life/ -----
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fine-tuning/
___________________
The question of the existence of God is a fine question, the ultimate one, that I cannot ignore in good conscience any longer.
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Thanatos10
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The short answer to your post is that it’s all wrong.
As for Blind, I’m afraid it’s the truth. I mean we have the human brain pretty much all figured out.
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 2
#26587494 - 04/08/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Truth? Ha. Prove there is not a god. Show me your truth.
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The Blind Ass
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: The short answer to your post is that it’s all wrong.
As for Blind, I’m afraid it’s the truth. I mean we have the human brain pretty much all figured out.

This is not worth my time, stopped being fun when It became clear you don’t have a clue.
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Thanatos10
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Thing is that I do. I just don’t play invent mystery or majesty just to feel comfortable. I think people on here WANT stuff to be unknown rather than admit we have much of it figured out
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
spirit_shadow said: Truth? Ha. Prove there is not a god. Show me your truth.
It’s more on you to provide the proof that there is a god and so far nothing I have seen or heard suggests there is a god in any shape or form.
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spirit_shadow
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Lol it is on nobody. I'm saying the fact that anything exists at all is more proof that "god" exists than there is no proof that it does not. (Also when I refer to god I mean in general. Not tied to an specific religion)
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
spirit_shadow said: Lol it is on nobody. I'm saying the fact that anything exists at all is more proof that "god" exists than there is no proof that it does not. (Also when I refer to god I mean in general. Not tied to an specific religion)
The fact that anything exists means nothing at all. It’s just humans ascribing to reality more than what it is.
Once again you have no proof that god exists in any form.
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LogicaL Chaos
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If God exists in a higher dimension and we dont know how to access those higher dimensions, then theres no proof of God (yet).
Once humans can access higher dimensions of reality, perhaps thats when we will find evidence of God.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: If God exists in a higher dimension and we dont know how to access those higher dimensions, then theres no proof of God (yet).
Once humans can access higher dimensions of reality, perhaps thats when we will find evidence of God.
You are assuming higher dimensions even exist or that God even exists. Again no evidence to support any of that:
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Thanatos10
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Plus there is no reason to create reality, at the very least it couldn’t be a compassionate or loving god that did all this
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Led Zeppelin
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If you really tried to sit and think about the precise moment the universe became real and how that is even possible you can feel your brain starting to hurt. It’s beyond our understanding as humans. This doesn’t mean we need to push everyone else down to rise up OP, we must enjoy our time here on earth.
That being said there are too many mystical/paranormal experiences out there for us not to believe there’s something ‘else’ ya know. It’s crazy, we’ll find out one day.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
Led Zeppelin said: If you really tried to sit and think about the precise moment the universe became real and how that is even possible you can feel your brain starting to hurt. It’s beyond our understanding as humans. This doesn’t mean we need to push everyone else down to rise up OP, we must enjoy our time here on earth.
That being said there are too many mystical/paranormal experiences out there for us not to believe there’s something ‘else’ ya know. It’s crazy, we’ll find out one day.
Actually most mystical experiences are all just brain chemistry and paranormal ones are really just mundane occurrences or misunderstandings. Humans have a knack for making things up or thinking something means X or Y or you know.
The beginning isn’t mind blowing and it doesn’t make your brain hurt. It happened and we are here now. That’s it and really all it needs to be. The origin of the universe is irrelevant to my daily life.
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Led Zeppelin
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Yes it is irrelevant but I’m saying if you just sat down, took a deep breath, and really thought about the very beginning of time and space you could seriously have a brain aneurysm..try it.
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HappySloth



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God is everything. So does anything and everything exist? I say yes.
God is like the matrix of intelligent awareness from which all matter emerges.
Currently humans have it all backwards.
Matter is not primary. Consciousness is and all is conscious and everything is alive.
There is no death, only energy transforming.
God is real god, is everything, yopu are god experiencing its creation as an illusionary seperate form.
In truth we are not seperate from god or from anything. We are all one.
But hey don't take my word for it - the answers are all inside you, they are inside us, if we seek to unlock them. All we have to do is silence the mind long enough to listen... meditate to oneness and experience it yourself!
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watermelon mon
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Quote:
Led Zeppelin said: Yes it is irrelevant but I’m saying if you just sat down, took a deep breath, and really thought about the very beginning of time and space you could seriously have a brain aneurysm..try it.
Used to do that a lot when I was a small child.
It was always very overwhelming, in a good way.
I also used to close my eyes and watch the universe.
You know, all of those flowing colors.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
HappySloth said: God is everything. So does anything and everything exist? I say yes.
God is like the matrix of intelligent awareness from which all matter emerges.
Currently humans have it all backwards.
Matter is not primary. Consciousness is and all is conscious and everything is alive.
There is no death, only energy transforming.
God is real god, is everything, yopu are god experiencing its creation as an illusionary seperate form.
In truth we are not seperate from god or from anything. We are all one.
But hey don't take my word for it - the answers are all inside you, they are inside us, if we seek to unlock them. All we have to do is silence the mind long enough to listen... meditate to oneness and experience it yourself!
That’s another false belief. Matter is primary as our brains are responsible for consciousness. Consciousness isn’t primary. There is such a thing as death but thinking otherwise is how humans cope.
Saying god is everything is...false or at the very least pointless. I can say matter is everything. You are not God experiencing creation. You are a body, a mere collection of matter.
Also the answers are no inside you, what you describe is the sensation of oneness that is the result of brain stimulation. Oneness is just a feeling, it’s not the truth of reality. We are not one.
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HappySloth



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26588451 - 04/09/20 09:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I respectfully yet completely disagree.
Where did you come from? Where did your body come from?
You were born.
That means you are connected to your mother and father.
Where did they come from? Their mother and father.
We are not just all connected. Ultimately we all come from the same source.
The source. The one consciousness.
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HappySloth



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26588462 - 04/09/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Since you are a materialist maybe I can explain it this way too,
Think about the big bang, science is saying that we all came from the same singularity so its also confirming that we are all one.
Seperation is the greatest of all illusions. You are not seperate. You were born and you will die.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
HappySloth said: Since you are a materialist maybe I can explain it this way too,
Think about the big bang, science is saying that we all came from the same singularity so its also confirming that we are all one.
Seperation is the greatest of all illusions. You are not seperate. You were born and you will die.
That’s actually a misunderstanding. The singularity is just one of many hypothesis as to the origin and is losing steam thanks to quantum mechanics. However that is not the same thing as saying we are all one, especially since the elements that make us up didn’t appear until millions of years later.
As for where I came from, my parents. There is no “source” that shows a misunderstanding of the Big Bang and the universe in general. Everything being made of similar elements does not make everything the same thing. The universe isn’t a monolithic thing, it’s a lot of little things. Also consciousness is a product of biology, in our case the brain. There is no source consciousness.
There is no oneness only the illusion of oneness.
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Thanatos10
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Also “oneness” is pretty psychopathic when you think about it.
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26588697 - 04/09/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
spirit_shadow said: Lol it is on nobody. I'm saying the fact that anything exists at all is more proof that "god" exists than there is no proof that it does not. (Also when I refer to god I mean in general. Not tied to an specific religion)
The fact that anything exists means nothing at all. It’s just humans ascribing to reality more than what it is.
Once again you have no proof that god exists in any form.
Ok mister wise guy. If it's that easy then go ahead and make something from nothing.....no, please, take your time. I'll be here
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The Blind Ass
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We 'believe' in the veracity of our sensory experience. Although we know first that every sensory perception is contrived by the structure (the shape and form) and the function ('seeing', 'hearing') of the sense organ as sensory stimuli impinge upon it, and, second, by the projective and interpretive cognitive functions of the intellect, believing those perceptions to be real we reify them as objectively existent physical/mental reality.
These karmically induced chronic habits of interpretation and projection may be termed 'genetic' insofar as the basic beliefs about the external world are determined by the structure and function of the psycho-organism itself. Or the notion of 'past lives' from the very inception of the species of homo sapiens can be evoked to indicate the unconscious depth of the psyche that produces the interpretive/projective images by which develops though age to experience sickness and finally death.
The crass naive materialist thumping the table and saying, 'And isn't this real?' is in denial of the ineluctable dominant cognitive component of every perception. Indeed, in every cognitive event our specifically personal beliefs about the reality of the external world are undermined by the logic of variable sensory experience under evolving conditions. The subjectivity of our deeper, hidden, preconscious, common, shared beliefs about the external world and its presumed immutable reality are easily refuted by the proofs offered by the scanning electron microscope and by quantum theory and particle physics in the field of objective investigation. - booky.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
spirit_shadow said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
spirit_shadow said: Lol it is on nobody. I'm saying the fact that anything exists at all is more proof that "god" exists than there is no proof that it does not. (Also when I refer to god I mean in general. Not tied to an specific religion)
The fact that anything exists means nothing at all. It’s just humans ascribing to reality more than what it is.
Once again you have no proof that god exists in any form.
Ok mister wise guy. If it's that easy then go ahead and make something from nothing.....no, please, take your time. I'll be here 
No one said the universe came from nothing, well maybe some do but I have no reason to believe them. None of that means a God in any way though.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: W te 'believe' in the veracity of our sensory experience. Although we know firsthat every sensory perception is contrived by the structure (the shape and form) and the function ('seeing', 'hearing') of the sense organ as sensory stimuli impinge upon it, and, second, by the projective and interpretive cognitive functions of the intellect, believing those perceptions to be real we reify them as objectively existent physical/mental reality.
These karmically induced chronic habits of interpretation and projection may be termed 'genetic' insofar as the basic beliefs about the external world are determined by the structure and function of the psycho-organism itself. Or the notion of 'past lives' from the very inception of the species of homo sapiens can be evoked to indicate the unconscious depth of the psyche that produces the interpretive/projective images by which develops though age to experience sickness and finally death.
The crass naive materialist thumping the table and saying, 'And isn't this real?' is in denial of the ineluctable dominant cognitive component of every perception. Indeed, in every cognitive event our specifically personal beliefs about the reality of the external world are undermined by the logic of variable sensory experience under evolving conditions. The subjectivity of our deeper, hidden, preconscious, common, shared beliefs about the external world and its presumed immutable reality are easily refuted by the proofs offered by the scanning electron microscope and by quantum theory and particle physics in the field of objective investigation. - booky.
Actually no they aren't. Quantum mechanics doesn't say anything about that, it just says that at the quantum level our understand of the universe breaks down but it doesn't apply at the macro level. Neither does the microscope as that is just showing us microscopic matter at a level we can see. There isn't anything "cognitive" to it.
We know that sensory data to be real, it's not belief. If you want to start doubting our senses then you're going to have to throw out everything from Buddhism, psychedelics, and everything else as well. Our senses are not entirely accurate but it's not enough to support what you're claiming.
I think anyone who isn't a materialist is naive since the evidence that we have is support enough for it. I mean there are some problems like Solipsism that no one can really get over, but that doesn't make it any less true or accurate in terms of explaining reality.
I don't see any reason to not think there isn't an external reality apart from us, otherwise why would you be talking to me and vice versa.
Edited by Thanatos10 (04/09/20 12:42 PM)
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HappySloth



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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Also “oneness” is pretty psychopathic when you think about it.
Its not something to be thought of from the ego mind but rather experienced directly by silencing ones mind.
Experience and knowing is something quite different from thought.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
HappySloth said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Also “oneness” is pretty psychopathic when you think about it.
Its not something to be thought of from the ego mind but rather experienced directly by silencing ones mind.
Experience and knowing is something quite different from thought.
Not really, they are all the same thing, mental activities. Oneness is a thought, there is no "Ego mind".
Honestly it all just sounds like a story the sages of the past made to explain what we know today to just be brain chemistry. It's poetic I'll give it that. Still doesn't change my view that it's psychotic.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26588832 - 04/09/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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You completely made my point by missing it
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: You completely made my point by missing it 
Or you didn't make a point at all. It's likely you weren't being clear.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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That’s more than likely. I think I rather see eye to eye with you. How I express myself on these forums is quite trolly and usually not an accurate reflection of my views. But it’s fun to assume the guise of differing beliefs, and at times even delusive beliefs, if only to understand those that assume them unassumingly. Quite fun.
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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 07:45 AM)
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Thanatos10
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I kind of wonder what your accurate reflection is. I'll admit I don't know much but I don't suffer those who claim to have the answer to everything. I was kind of sad that scientists I ask tell me that what we have is a best guess of what's "out there" but I appreciate the honesty.
On a smaller scale I don't care about the capital T. I've lived happily not knowing the origin of things or anything else like that. If people want to do that then cool, but long ago as a kid I realized that such pursuits tend to detract from the NOW. I am here now and that's all that matters.
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Thanatos10
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Or to put it more bluntly
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Still could be a simulation
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
spirit_shadow said: Still could be a simulation 
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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You care, hence you reacting to other opinions. Caring can be good, see >>>.
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Thanatos10
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I do care, but not really about the capital T truth though. That was born of something darker inside me
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zZZz
jesus


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@Thanatos10
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I do care, but not really about the capital T truth though. That was born of something darker inside me
Dark side eyy?....
Thanatos, I am your Father!

Lmao, jp’n Than. Although I would like if you could please share your dark side story-ies...
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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 12:28 AM)
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


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And the thread has come full circle...
Quote:
TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
shroomening said:those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
Come to the dark side 
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Thanatos10
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Well my darkside is mostly nihilism, which I am recovering from at the moment.
But the capital T truth is from an insecurity I had as a kid when my mom would belittle and ridicule me for not knowing the answers to things or for not having any thoughts on a matter. I essentially tie "knowing things" with my worth as a human and so it's agony when I can't understand something and it's hard for me to let things go because it feels like I am a total failure. It doesn't help when half the stuff I read on here I don't have a response to or I don't understand (which causes the same cycle of self flagellation and berating myself).
Something else I am working on, it's a long list.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (04/09/20 11:43 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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HappySloth



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26590068 - 04/10/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
HappySloth said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Also “oneness” is pretty psychopathic when you think about it.
Its not something to be thought of from the ego mind but rather experienced directly by silencing ones mind.
Experience and knowing is something quite different from thought.
Not really, they are all the same thing, mental activities. Oneness is a thought, there is no "Ego mind".
Honestly it all just sounds like a story the sages of the past made to explain what we know today to just be brain chemistry. It's poetic I'll give it that. Still doesn't change my view that it's psychotic.
I can tell from this you havn't had the experience yet.
The mind has to be completely silenced via meditation, it is not a thought - it is an experience accompanied with knowing.
Experience is very different from thought and logical reasoning.
Many people experience it during NDE while technically brain dead so wheres the thinking occuring exactly in your model?
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BooShow
Spooky



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Trying to explain Oneness to someone who hasn't experienced it is like trying to describe the color red to a blind person. You have to experience it.
-------------------- You are what is. That's all.
  
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: HappySloth] 1
#26590102 - 04/10/20 02:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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The felt sensation of unity, or oneness as you call it, as felt under the influence of psychedelic drugs and sometimes under extreme duress (extreme meditation, nearly dying/stroke/heart failure/overdoses, etc) is the result of changes in biochemistry from - lack of oxygen/build up of carbon dioxide, and or extreme change - like a cascade effect of catecholamines ( or a change in other general way with NTs) and the ensuing bodily changes.
Psychedelic drugs can induce it by essentially mimicking certain catecholamines/N.T.s and by direct or indirect agonism or antagonism in relevant receptor sites, also cutting off, or lessening the blood flow to functionally specific parts of the brain/CNS/Sns that it’s otherwise accustomed to, in conjunction with the aforementioned reasons the brain influenced by psychs can directly induce a felt sensation of unity or oneness.
P.s. To say something is because of brain chemistry doesn’t take away from the dimension of experience, it simply gives an explanation that is chemical in nature, although it may give reason to re-examine ones beliefs after said experience. Furthermore, Chemicals, do have a magic like quality if you contemplate their function and potential. The word magic here is used to describe its awesomeness, powers, mysteriousness, and beauty.
Psychedelics and the previously mentioned acts or accidents and what not can do all of this by altering the normal homeostasis of the brain, affecting areas to do with perception, the senses, and emotion, etc. Also, brain function doesn’t stop in a NDE, if it did the individual would not be able to have experience. Structure/Function. Flatlining for minutes at a time doesn’t mean your necessarily dead, hence how people can be revived and come back from near death. If one is actual dead you cannot come back. (To this life)... Try having an experience without a head and the organic machinery inside of it to generate it!
Scientific and medical understanding of the body and of various studies have developed to a point where it’s able to detect actual death vs the appearance of death (appearance being -non responsive, no heartbeat, no reflex. and almost unconscious to fully for a time .vs. actual being - no electrical charge, no brain activity, combined with no breathing or heartbeat, etc for a specific duration of time)
Now let me add this, what I said before doesn’t detract from the experience of the phenomena of what you call “oneness” , known in the aforementioned states. I personally call it a “non dual” awareness state of consciousness, because referring to as 1 can easily give an impression that leads to an equally myopic view as the view that everything is only separate. It’s also not just 0, it’s not just 1, it’s not just 2. I don’t think its a number at all. Appointing a number to is is more dualistic conceptualization ( so is this but language was developed by brains that’s default is mostly dualistic, soo it’s tricky) , and implies it’s “this” and-or “that” or “is” or “is not”, in reality it’s beyond all dualistic conceptions. However, the term- “Non dual”, semantically is more accurate and more just to the relative truth of our lives and to the experience itself of unity under the above conditions.
Experientially, it is quite mystical and special, a big deal beforehand( when ones unawares of it , or only knows it via intellect), but it’s also not a big deal because of the fact it’s so natural and ordinary once known and after it’s known experientially and intellectually- and the non dual primal awareness whilst in that state of drug or non drug induced consciousness seems to allow the individual a completely new view/vision via the temporary negation of illusorics (natural mystical state of primordial non dual being-awareness) from which to consider and experience life, and is also revered by all religion and spiritual circles, with infinite potential, wisdom, and clarification via utter pristine simple clarity, and the opportunity to see/know ourselves as we truly are and the rest of the entire cosmos in a way that defies words, seeing/knowing/being through and beyond the spell of our default mode that our body normally propagates.
When we know and see our ordinary mode but also beyond that mode, we are truly non dual at its finest, mind and senses unclouded by the fixed/built/simulated perception of concrete separation between subject and object. Now we can integrate the knowledge and view from both modes to live like we are alive for the first and final time in this mysterious Cosmos. Now that’s primordially pure, and primordially good.
In my life, experiencing the “oneness”. Or rather, Non dual awareness, is one of the most sacred to me, a bottomless pool a joyous bliss and non dual wisdom from which drink from dailyI, andit settled the great matter for me, but that can’t be put into words, it’s ineffable, and only known as what’s truly divine and true with primordial confidence after the brain natural tendency to return to its natural state of equilibrium where the appearance and sense of one self and everything else is again as it was, but forever more now with gnosis. now we know beyond a shadow of a doubt, we can never go back and our lives forever changed. Psychedelic induced shamanic mysticism, ecstatic Union with the divine, has this at its core. Nature as known on Earth itself has evolved over countless ages to produce plants, fungi, animals, and bacteria that when used in this context, can induce an experiential foretaste into the nature of Mind. Still, the nature of Mind is mysterious and unknown, hyper nameless.
*** We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time.
- T.S.Eliot, Little Gidding
***
It’s wonderful, but also...the relative or mundane or ordinary natural state is just as much so, it’s the launch pad for all other states and it’s the Goldilocks state , every human being that ever will be “are also on the same bus or boat as you - since all experience has these 2 dimensions of “magical illusion” (since they are both temporary and shared simulations) and that’s more amazing than anything imho. Because in the non dual state everything’s open and interdependence is inescapably obvious.
While our ordinary state is a temporary one( by virtue of when it changes via drugs or sleepiness or death and>) in that its being processed and generated by the brain and its ability to structure phenomenological events into pieces, the state of consciousness in which we experience the phenomena of non dual awareness the pieces are known as whole because brain procccess no longer chop up and discriminate infinity, it’s whole like before our brains developed to structure reality into illusory categories for the sake of surviving as an embodied being ( which is not a bad thing btw, it’s how and why we can function like we do in the day to day, but also the cause of experiential dualism - the brain!) So it’s close to new born state and close to dead state maybe.
It’s one and many, many in one, one in many. Not not just 1, not just 2, not just oneness, not just pluralism. It’s interdependent and Interconnectedness with everything and all Right here right now, Straight ahead lies the way.
It’s experientially Primordially Non- dual. The optical illusion that Einstein talks about in a certain quote of his akin is the ordinary felt sense of self or being, non-dual primordial awareness is what he hints at in the quote by him that I alluded to, and it’s what happens when our brains lose their simulated or self created and developed sense of self and body outline awareness in a certain way, and as close to the unborn and deathless as you can be before being straight up actual dead! . and it’s everyone’s fav 
Lastly, if you can simply realize that we are currently under what is akin to a spell of magical illusion, and that by recognizing it we are instantly released from a conceptual cage, into an enchanting reality that is akin to pure pleasure itself. That reality is Illusion- apparent yet absent, and by recognizing it in a state of non contrived relaxation we find the key to the natural mystical state. Meditation, psychedelics, exogenous or endogeounsly achieved, doesn’t matter...Once it has thus been lost, enslavement to impure circumstantial illusion becomes dominant pure enchantment. As if we were never to awaken from lucid dream, pure mind infuses the primordial ground.
PPS... I know at times I made it seem that primordial non-dual awareness is just something to “achieve or get or induce via some practice as if it’s on one time and off another but that’s not the case- the unavoidable truth for those with eyes to see is that its shining through everything we can possible experience and in every moment 24/7 throughout the entire span of our lives without a trace or a seam...absent, yet apparent...wether we realize it or not, consciously know or don’t- it’s always already been there the whole time, always here and now.
... but explaining that would take a book, and this is just a forum. 
The search to become one with X is delusive in a sense. Because, as one poet says...
***
We think of the key, each in his prison thinking of the key, each confirms a prison.
- T.S Eliot, The Waste Land
***
You cannot become one with yourself, the universe, or anything, because you already are- because reality and all it’s phenomena are primordially interdependently originated, and by extension, interconnected, or as colloquially known, “One”... that Absolute Truth is what non-dual primal awareness shines a light on, dawning like stainless radiance. Behind, beyond and through and through it all.
Last but not Least x 2 : A prayer, incantation, chant, suttra i find relevant for evoking a foretaste Of the nature of Mind ~~~  
*** In the space where all experience remains in potential, emerges a grand display of nondual awareness and illusion, the original spontaneity of our sovereign nature of mind: Indivisible from that, unmoving, to that we bow down...
***
..
What this message is attempting to convey is akin to/ along the lines of- what I typed out in the post above, but not necessarily exactly what I typed out, but close enough!!! I could have been more accurate in many parts, but I don’t feel like writing while checking my sources for the exact terms and info and all that right now. Work it out yourselves, or don’t! Ultimately won’t matter because its matter = 0 sum.
*** May this contribute to the awakening of the pure mind of all beings.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 08:08 AM)
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BooShow
Spooky



Registered: 03/05/20
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-------------------- You are what is. That's all.
  
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: BooShow] 1
#26590115 - 04/10/20 03:12 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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My opinion is most people have terribly uninformed, biased, close-minded opinions in general.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Led Zeppelin
Tripper


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Wow that is a very interesting post
Can’t say I’ve ever felt “oneness” or had a NDE on psychedelics but I had a fleeting thought on shrooms once about how everything is a cycle I had the knowledge of it one hundred percent but the thought slipped away like when you wake up and try to remember a cool dream
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



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I have had the universe figured out on a dose of mushrooms, but I forget what I learned over night/after sleeping. I have to keep going back to learn, over, and over again. I'm not complaining either, lol. I'm with thanatos on this that the truth doesn't really matter as all will be revealed (or not) upon ones death bead. Then you, I, and everyone will know, but the trick is you have to "die" 1st. The cosmic joke, lol. I just have a good time, try to make people happy, and don't fuck with anyone, and be kind, giving, and thoughtful as much as possible. Enjoy life people!
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Thanatos10
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Still sounds like oneness is just another experience but that doesn’t mean anything when it comes to describing reality. Essentially what you have put forth is but poetry that doesn’t get at the truth of what this sensation really is.
It’s all just brain chemistry/neuroscience in the end but like any experience you can make objective claims about humans from a personal experience. You say pointing out that it’s just brain chemistry doesn’t detract from the experience but it does, it shows us what is really going on not what you feel is going on. Love is very much in the same category and like love you and everyone else ascribe more to it than what it was and draw unwarranted conclusions from what it is. I do it with love but not for this.
The truth is we are separate but in a sense connected as well. What happens to you doesn’t affect me or hurt me but I’m sure there are other things that can take place that do. I’m not doubting the bliss since we have recorded that in labs too but the wisdom is simply not true and what you experience isn’t a natural state but rather an induced one. You’re even making thing ups like the Divine which isn’t real and the “mind” for which there is less evidence for each day.
All I’m saying is that like every human being, myself included, you affix more to the story of the experience and make it more than what it is, which is a hallucination. Consciousness is a product of the brain which is why such drugs and meditation “alter” it. But such a state isn’t reality because it is temporary.
Quote:
... I know at times I made it seem that primordial non-dual awareness is just something to “achieve or get or induce via some practice as if it’s on one time and off another but that’s not the case- the unavoidable truth for those with eyes to see is that its shining through everything we can possible experience and in every moment 24/7 throughout the entire span of our lives without a trace or a seam...absent, yet apparent...wether we realize it or not, consciously know or don’t- it’s always already been there the whole time, always here and now.
Except it’s not, it’s a story you and everyone else made up to explain what happened. Its not the truth of existence, not even from a physics standpoint. I’m sorry to say that it’s a nice story but that’s all it really is. Most people spend their lives inside stories I mean look at religion, seems you aren’t much different. This whole post doesn’t sound much different from other descriptions of religion.
And just like those other descriptors we know what is really going on thanks to modern neuroscience. No nonduality or “consciousness”, just the brain. So what you take to be “nondual reality” is really just in your head, like god or anything else. That’s why I don’t place much stock in such mystical experiences now that I know what they really are.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: I have had the universe figured out on a dose of mushrooms, but I forget what I learned over night/after sleeping. I have to keep going back to learn, over, and over again. I'm not complaining either, lol. I'm with thanatos on this that the truth doesn't really matter as all will be revealed (or not) upon ones death bead. Then you, I, and everyone will know, but the trick is you have to "die" 1st. The cosmic joke, lol. I just have a good time, try to make people happy, and don't fuck with anyone, and be kind, giving, and thoughtful as much as possible. Enjoy life people!
I think you misunderstand what I meant by that.
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Can’t say I’ve ever felt “oneness” or had a NDE on psychedelics but I had a fleeting thought on shrooms once about how everything is a cycle I had the knowledge of it one hundred percent but the thought slipped away like when you wake up and try to remember a cool dream
NDEs are also just brain chemistry/neuroscience. People think them proof that consciousness survives death but it’s nothing like that.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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In short I had experiences like what you are mentioning and it is hard to describe in the same way it is to describe any sensory data. But I recognized it for what it was after the fact and don’t make claims on reality based off it.
The feeling of oneness is just a feeling, it means nothing. It was the same for me with solipsism, idealism, god, the self, etc. They were all just feelings but that’s about it. I don’t write stories about them to make it more than what it is.
To put word as close as possible to what I felt it would be apathy. Sure it was “oneness” but with that came great apathy not love. If you felt love of joy then it wasn’t it, that’s still “ego” from what I’m told.
After the whole bit I had to wonder why anyone would seek such a state where they didn’t care about anyone else.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (04/10/20 10:19 AM)
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
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Probably, but I'm cool with what I know. I don't have to know details or truths to every single fucking thing that crosses my mind. I just enjoy life.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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* Wow-ie, this thing is long and hard to edit in its entirety on my iPad, please forgive any hiccups, and the fuck ups 
Than, I get where your coming from, but do you? You keep responding and refuting, but your missing the point entirely. It is for those interested, I would dare to call them Yogi’s, Yogini’s, Mystics, those who find their intellects thoroughly challenged by subsuming such a view, especially during high doses psychedelic self experimentation or advanced meditation techniques.
Now about your post about my post! Haha,
The truth of existence? A physics standpoint? I never claimed to, nor did I describe, much of anything in terms of the study physics. Or claim it had much of anything to do with it, instead the approach was simplistic and basically philosophy with a touch a medicine. Why would I explain philosophically phenomenological events in terms of a physical science,? Especially when mainly dealing with a specific known altered state induced by psychoactive hallucinogenic substances? That requires a base understanding of medicine and an introduction to the relevant SnM courses to describe. Please expound and illustrate the physical mechanisms of being aware of mind. I’ll wait for it, or for any “science” you proclaim to know how it does not work - you need to know how it works to know what doesn’t, a blanketing general statement won’t cut it for this, you may be trying to escape nihilism, but you’ve retreated into another extreme.
The proposed view here is not an objective philosophical exposition. It’s simply to illuminate us who share psychedelic experience by my own unique and personal experience. Anyways..continuing with the banter and stick. It is Experiential truth couched in a story for the sake and goodness of Myself and others. As it deals with dimensions of experience, your completely missing the boat when picking it apart like an objective philosophical and or scientific exposition , like some treaty of absolute infallibility on the nature of objective reality. That’s not what’s at play, it’s experience. Physical “points” are harped upon when needed to expedite any crucial explanations that require more understanding than is usual for a forum of this kind, and even then it is done simplistically; nothing More.
Do you see anywhere in my post where I am even subtly trying to calculate work? Am I disrupting Newton’s laws anywhere, disputing them? Am I showing an alternate way to write equations to differentiate various kinetic energy potentials in a mechanical system? How about momentum? not even remotely.
I make it plain as day, that I am referring to 2 dimensions of human experience, both being illusory in nature due to the nature of the structure and function of the makeup of the organism that they occur in and by.
Your even sorta close to my point when you say “it’s just chemical” ... “ no non duality or consciousness, just the brain”. The brain is just the brain, but it’s also the brain in a body, in population, in an environment, part of that system and up and on in complexity in scale. So while a = a in syllogistic logic, it is not just that only overall. Keep that in mind.
Your words. However, consciousness is a faculty of mind, mind is an emergent property of the brain. And, in that sense...we come full circle to this, although these things - the dualistic state of ordinary mind and its consciousness and non dual awareness and the types of consciousness it can present in. They are both Absent in reality - can’t be found - but they are perceptible via awareness of the individual.
The finer point, about how the brain itself cannot distinguish between unreal and real, yet this known yet unique and rare phenomena , a play of dual-non dual awareness known in mystical experience, has special experiential implications to the human being, in that it elucidates the nature of mind as illusory - like a magical illusion that by default we are under by virtue of having a body with its ensuing organ system and its particular attributes etc. while most user cannot describe the ineffable they borrow terms and phrases to do so, which when lined up with the standard written and historical context of such a borrowed word, it does not hold up. Those individuals are brave for trying, even if they come off foolish. Upon reintegration with normal Goldilocks mode, the personal ego reintegrated - or the brain in homeostasis, reinterprets and changes the immense sensory data within that altered state, even the memory of it - that seems the usual case. But it doesn’t have the be.
The unreal world and environment and playing of an illusory dream at night when you go to bed can have real, profound effects on an individuals psyche and body when both asleep and after waking up, the brain - cannot tell the difference until after the fact. During, you a real beguiled, it’s normally not tilll after you wake up that you realize your an idiot who was technically just hallucinating in your bed at night...if you have the mindfulness to even remember and realize that’s what’s happening.
Using this piece of insight to , in order to be effectively released from the conceptual cage (mental) that the brains own structure and function is genetically coded to express structurally and functionally for work in areas of, sensory stimulation filtering, discrimination, boundary, compartmentalism, a experience in its totality (not to be confused with the concept of existence) into a default network (physical) from which to naturally operate out of as the ordinary normal state we all share. The distinction between relative and absolute is a delusive function of the intellect, and in reality the two truths cannot be parted.
With the experientially based conviction that the entirety of our experience is like an apparition, or dream, magic show, etc we can begin to abandon the metastatic tendrils of belief in concrete materialism and slowly abandon the process of egoic intellectual deconstruction that has brought us to this point. The brains anatomy-structure, reflects its function to essentially to impute dualism of experience once it has sufficiently developed, and so the emergent dualism of subject and object that particularizes and concretizes specific elements of our experience can be known (through premise and theme throughout my last post combined with an actual understanding of it) as no longer valid, so like a dream upon waking, all our fictive imputations upon the openness of reality dissolve. Our opinions and preferences become a part of the universal, intersubjective, delusion and the only reality is watever lies beyond ideational concepts and constructs, and 'the interpretive and selective functions of cognitive mind. No formulation of language can do it justice after phenomena has been experienced as illusory evanescence.
Non duality is the nature of reality, and relative truth is the ignorant delusion subsumed by it. I do not expect you to understand, I don’t know your education, personal study, or much about you, but you are quick to point out errors that aren’t even there in order to confirm your own bias, my story of my personal experience in a state that is ineffable, like I said, is a story. But that does not take away from it , and it’s been the culmination of a life goal of over 15 years, excuse me if I dumb it down for you and others and borrow from various religious terminologies and their practices, while also using poetic language on an online psilocybin fungi enthusiasts forum.
But don’t claim to know, what you so obviously don’t, and then not be able to even back it with a well thought out post.
Let try ending it with a different iteration of the last post. Any pointing out of the of the nature of mind is delusory, and attempt to speak or point out the nature of reality is speculation. However, if you have experienced it for yourself, which btw it’s not a contest, but you make it clear that you haven’t, and thus - you are in the dark on that one without even being aware of it.
It’s fine that you claim to not care, or that you claim to know that which you do not. You have an answer as equally as delusive as mine but worse, because I use it all. The science, the religion, personal experience, etc. without morality, wisdom, and discernment, you might as well be quoting from Wikipedia.
*** I’ve yet to reread or edit this post’s writing to a level of satisfaction, for the time being, please over look grammatical and structural errors***
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 12:26 PM)
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HappySloth



Registered: 01/24/19
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I feel a little sad that people have forgoten oneness and now believe its just a material thing in the brain.
I feel like you've forgotten where you came from and what you are.
You were born and you will die. We are not seperate. Seperation is an illusion. Maybe it will take your "matter" being in the ground before you remember that you are one with this reality.
Can you not feel it? That you are alive, you are awareness, you are life, you are the universe, you are god, expressing itself here now, experiencing your creation.
Look into the eyes of an animal and tell me that you can't see your self looking back at you?
Edited by HappySloth (04/10/20 12:20 PM)
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
Non duality is the nature of reality, and relative truth is the ignorant delusion subsumed by it. I do not expect you to understand, I don’t know your education, personal study, or much about you, but you are quick to point out errors that aren’t even there in order to confirm your own bias, my story of my personal experience in a state that is ineffable, like I said, is a story. But that does not take away from it , and it’s been the culmination of a life goal of over 15 years, excuse me if I dumb it down for you and others and borrow from various religious terminologies and their practices, while also using poetic language on an online psilocybin fungi enthusiasts forum.
Except it isn't reality is in a sense dualistic and there is a degree of separateness with everything. Relative truth isn't some ignorant delusion either since all we have is relative truth. Your state isn't ineffable is already been explained, all you have done is just ascribe more to it that it is. It does take away from it when you realize what it actually is.
Quote:
Please expound and illustrate the physical mechanisms of being aware of mind.
What you refer to as mind is really just all the brain. Thoughts, personality, the sense of oneness or separateness. Each of those is triggered by stimulation or suppression of different areas of the brain.
Like...you are trying to posit some sort of absolute that exists when all you really have is your own sensory experience of a particular point in time and trying to make claims about reality from that. It's easy to see why such an endeavor is doomed to fail. Nothing you said really breaks materialism because it can all be explained by it. Your experience can literally be reduced to brain activity and nothing more. you haven't woken from the dream you are still in it.
You say the brain fabricates duality but I think it's more likely that it recognizes duality instead. Also what's to say the brain isn't fabricating everything that you have described? I mean you keep trying to advance some notion is "beyond" the 'mind' and 'brain' when the whole basis of that experience is a product of the two and your body. Every critique against materialism can really just be lobbed back at you.
I get that such an experience is profound and intense, I do. But that doesn't mean it means anything or implies anything at all. Everything you described has a materialist cause to it so there is no reason to make it anymore than that.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Show me where, with an example, with any form of matter or anything of your choosing - show me how it evades the law of interdependent origination? Give an example of the separation you mention. Does it negate the law?
Find one thing, in the universe, that you can personally verify, that upends my proposition. I will happily admit I am wrong about Non duality being the nature of reality.
On materialism, whatever the word materialism points to in reality, material, can you tell me it’s composite. All compounded things are composed of aggregates, aggregates composed of aggregates, onwards till we can no longer measure.
Is it your leap of faith and belief that if we could use microscopy to, hypothetically for this argument, magnify infinitely, that we would come across an infinite number of smaller particles for infinity - that were novel in its structure and function, indicating newer more - or less complex particles etc?
Or is it that, if able to do so, we would eventually stop at some final materia primoris?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 12:39 PM)
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
HappySloth said: I feel a little sad that people have forgoten oneness and now believe its just a material thing in the brain.
I feel like you've forgotten where you came from and what you are.
You were born and you will die. We are not seperate. Seperation is an illusion. Maybe it will take your "matter" being in the ground before you remember that you are one with this reality.
Can you not feel it? That you are alive, you are awareness, you are life, you are the universe, you are god, expressing itself here now, experiencing your creation.
Look into the eyes of an animal and tell me that you can't see your self looking back at you?

I think you need to remember that you are body, just like I am a body. Separation isn't an illusion it's part of reality, even quantum physics supports that.
I like that people saying "forget" implies it was known to begin with. Or maybe it was something believed at the time and then discarded with new information.
I know that I was born and will die (assuming this isn't a simulation), but I am not "one" with anything. You are mistaken to think the universe some monolithic entity when it isn't.
Am I alive? What does it mean to be "alive"? What can we call "alive" and why? I am not awareness, I am a body just like you and everyone else on here. I am not "life" though I may be alive. I am not God, that has to be the funniest and most conceited line I have ever heard. A God who made life and existence must be a sadist of some kind I'll tell you what.
When I look into the eyes of an animal I see another life form, not myself because they are not me. What happens to them doesn't happen to me. If they get hurt I feel no pain, they can be sick an I will be well.
Knowing how flawed sensory experience is I cannot put any stock in mystical experiences of oneness nor draw any conclusions from that. They say it's like waking from a dream, but if I had a dollar for every time I heard that I could pay my student loans and retire.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Show me where, with an example, with any form of matter or anything of your choosing - show me how it evades the law of interdependent origination? Give an example of the separation you mention. Does it negate the law?
Find one thing, in the universe, that you can personally verify, that upends my proposition. I will happily admit I am wrong about Non duality being the nature of reality.
Quantum physics where particles can pop in and out of existence without any relationship to each other. In fact much of quantum physics disproves nonduality and it disproves the "Singularity" hypothesis for the origin of the universe. At the macro level there is "interdependence" and causality, but at the quantum level all that breaks down.
Also interdependence isn't "oneness" since it's still a collection of individual parts, not a monolithic entity.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (04/10/20 12:38 PM)
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PatrickKn


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Any observable relationship*
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Thanatos10
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591015 - 04/10/20 12:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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PatrickKn said: Any observable relationship*
Not necessarily, and it does in a sense debunk the "getting something from nothing" crack that most people have. But you are making an assumption there is "Something more" when we don't have evidence for that. But you are still thinking in terms of macro reality, you have to junk that when studying quantum physics (as I said causality breaks down). Conservation of energy applies in macro physics but in micro it doesn't if the changes occur in a short enough time.
I mean granted when I say they pop in and out very quickly but it's still fascinating. It's weird how what applies in one "World" doesn't in the "other".
EDIT: Also I know people might try to worm in quantum fields to appeal to a sense of oneness but it actually doesn't imply that. I asked several experts in the field and they all came back with the same answer "no" and that it's a misunderstanding of quantum physics (to be honest the whole field suffers from being misunderstood by the public).
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (04/10/20 12:50 PM)
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PatrickKn


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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26591016 - 04/10/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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That something doesn't have an observable relationship does not imply that it has a relationship we can't see, merely that we cannot observe a relationship. To say that there is no relationship at all is more of an assumption.
Not arguing against anything you're saying really though otherwise.
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591017 - 04/10/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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yesss....
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The Blind Ass
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]
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Show me where, with an example, with any form of matter or anything of your choosing - show me how it evades the law of interdependent origination? Give an example of the separation you mention. Does it negate the law?
Find one thing, in the universe, that you can personally verify, that upends my proposition. I will happily admit I am wrong about Non duality being the nature of reality.
Quantum physics where particles can pop in and out of existence without any relationship to each other. In fact much of quantum physics disproves nonduality and it disproves the "Singularity" hypothesis for the origin of the universe. At the macro level there is "interdependence" and causality, but at the quantum level all that breaks down.
Also interdependence isn't "oneness" since it's still a collection of individual parts, not a monolithic entity.
The “singularity”.. who is taking about that as an origin of the universe? And what do you know of the macrocosm or microcosm besides what you have glimpsed from a secondary source? Quantum theory, is not proven, he’ll it’s had little chance to be disprove because so far the majority of its work is in theoretical practice for when an established (meaning , it has worked thus far in our limited capacity- but than it stops working- the equations that is) theory’s’ primary working equations can no longer work within an acceptable parameter in terms of real life applications in regards to its precision and accuracy in real applications.
What you speak of, is no more than make believe , but you don’t even realize it. It would be one thing if you had a degree in quantum mechanics and could say anything other than “ according to quantum physics a particle can ...get this... pop in...and pop out of existence”
You don’t know what particle they’re referring to, nor do you know how or which mathematical equations are being used to measure what you term “pop” - “in” or “out” of “existence”.
Also, tell me how you used quantum physics to figure out via the scientific method, with empirical data to back up your claim, and some colleagues with the academic phds to reproduce the experiment and got similar results, - that interdependent origination breaks down at the microcosmic level?
Because apparently if that’s what you found out and know, and not just believe, than thermodynamics is royally fucked big time.
Ps. What am I positing that is more ? Interdependent origination holds with general relativity, and with Newton’s laws... maybe I’m just stupid because I didn’t graduate with a degree in quantum mechanics
Enlighten me,
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 12:57 PM)
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Shenmue
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26591033 - 04/10/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Intelligent people usually end up realizing that life is completely meaningless. It's kind of a side effect and curse of knowing to much. Unfortunately stupid people need religion to get by in life. The average person can't handle too much reality.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591036 - 04/10/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PatrickKn said: That something doesn't have an observable relationship does not imply that it has a relationship we can't see, merely that we cannot observe a relationship. To say that there is no relationship at all is more of an assumption.
Not arguing against anything you're saying really though otherwise.
I mean I have to grant that. True it could be something that we can't see, but it could also be nothing (which would be far weirder to me really).
I'm just kind of sensitive to "god of the gaps" type arguments where my ignorance is someone else's proof. "I don't know" just means "I don't know", doesn't make your answer anymore correct.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26591039 - 04/10/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said: Intelligent people usually end up realizing that life is completely meaningless. It's kind of a side effect and curse of knowing to much. Unfortunately stupid people need religion to get by in life. The average person can't handle too much reality.
That's a common trap actually. The "curse of intellect" is usually just something people say to justify their misery. I mean sure life is meaningless but why point that out and why tell others about it?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
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Patrick, the point is that something unobservable would have to have no relationship to anything at all. If you can find an observable or can exemplify an unobserved composite thing that has on relationship to anything in the cosmos, my hats off to you. If you cannot see why you cant, your both in need of help.
Current established scientific practice and theory shows, that is impossible.
I’m not positing religion, nor superstition, nor out of this world fringe philosophy, or against actual science.
So were are you guys pulling this shit out of?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 01:05 PM)
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Shenmue
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26591047 - 04/10/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26591051 - 04/10/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I just want to know how you will bypass hundreds of years of men smarter than us all, and the scientific practices, theories, and laws they helped develop along the way. Bio, Chem, Physics. That’s what I know, I’ll stick to what I know.
And that wraps it up for here today.
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PatrickKn


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Quote:
Shenmue said: Intelligent people usually end up realizing that life is completely meaningless. It's kind of a side effect and curse of knowing to much. Unfortunately stupid people need religion to get by in life. The average person can't handle too much reality.
Meaning is a force of human language, and varies by context. To say there is no meaning to life implies that you are missing something to define from. That life has no meaning doesn't really say anything about the nature of life, except that it is sometimes more complex than the scope of a language defined by a network of associative meaning can define it from.
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Patrick, the point is that something unobservable would have to have no relationship to anything at all. If you can find an observable or can exemplify an unobserved composite thing that has on relationship to anything in the cosmos, my hats off to you.
Current established scientific practice and theory shows, that is impossible.
I’m not positing religion, nor superstition, nor out of this world fringe philosophy, or against actual science.
So were are you guys pulling this shit out of?
I haven't been following the thread at all. I genuinely just chimed in to insert observable into a sentence.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: ]
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Show me where, with an example, with any form of matter or anything of your choosing - show me how it evades the law of interdependent origination? Give an example of the separation you mention. Does it negate the law?
Find one thing, in the universe, that you can personally verify, that upends my proposition. I will happily admit I am wrong about Non duality being the nature of reality.
Quantum physics where particles can pop in and out of existence without any relationship to each other. In fact much of quantum physics disproves nonduality and it disproves the "Singularity" hypothesis for the origin of the universe. At the macro level there is "interdependence" and causality, but at the quantum level all that breaks down.
Also interdependence isn't "oneness" since it's still a collection of individual parts, not a monolithic entity.
The “singularity”.. who is taking about that as an origin of the universe? And what do you know of the macrocosm or microcosm besides what you have glimpsed from a secondary source? Quantum theory, is not proven, he’ll it’s had little chance to be disprove because so far the majority of its work is in theoretical practice for when an established (meaning , it has worked thus far in our limited capacity- but than it stops working- the equations that is) theory’s’ primary working equations can no longer work within an acceptable parameter in terms of real life applications in regards to its precision and accuracy in real applications.
What you speak of, is no more than make believe , but you don’t even realize it. It would be one thing if you had a degree in quantum mechanics and could say anything other than “ according to quantum physics a particle can ...get this... pop in...and pop out of existence”
You don’t know what particle they’re referring to, nor do you know how or which mathematical equations are being used to measure what you term “pop” - “in” or “out” of “existence”.
Also, tell me how you used quantum physics to figure out via the scientific method, with empirical data to back up your claim, and some colleagues with the academic phds to reproduce the experiment and got similar results, - that interdependent origination breaks down at the microcosmic level?
Because apparently if that’s what you found out and know, and not just believe, than thermodynamics is royally fucked big time.
Ps. What am I positing that is more ? Interdependent origination holds with general relativity, and with Newton’s laws... maybe I’m just stupid because I didn’t graduate with a degree in quantum mechanics
Enlighten me,
You post really shows how little you know about the field to call it just a "theory".
It's pretty well established in the field that matter and antimatter particles pop in and out all the time. The term is quantum foam due to how it forms.
Also thermodynamics didn't "Fuck up" big time, again you are applying classical mechanics to quantum mechanics. Conversation of energy doesn't apply if the change occurs in a short enough time like with these particles. Hence why quantum physics is "weird' because it doesn't behave according to classical mechanics and vice versa.
Your interdependence is still classical mechanics, which doesn't apply at a quantum level.
Your oneness is just a feeling based on observation of what is before you. But drill deeper and it doesn't hold.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591058 - 04/10/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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The problem is, using something you haven’t the faintest clue of, and misrepresenting it. Ex. If I know that I know that I’m seriously ill and with no diagnosis, it’s fucking obvious the nature of the problem currently lies, in my most cautious assumption, in the body. But I have no actual understanding of the illness, what is happening on the molecular level, how that is affecting individual cells, how that affects the bodies various organ systems and the massive complexity and immense information that needs to be known to (1) find the actual source of the illness...not just a symptom known through the sense organs and
(2). One would still have no idea how to treat the issue safety, or correctly, (3) ex. You have blastomycosis but don’t know it, are an autosomal or a X- linked sex recessive disorder and one of those is causing the illness and symptoms... just because you know the general direction of the moon, doesn’t mean you know it’s location astronomically, not in a way in which you could get a shuttle there or something. The examples are endless.
Case in point, quantum mechanics. Actually, it’s more than likely non of has any bearing with it all, more than likely everyone has heard a pundit or Tyson or some celeb, or maybe an interview with an actual theorist if your kewl, and more than likely they were expounding on uncharted territory and hypothesizing and generalizing and dumbing it so dark down for the audience that what was heard, is in fact nothing but conjecture based on the implications of the results of an actual experiment.
And that’s not fucking science,
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 01:17 PM)
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Patrick, the point is that something unobservable would have to have no relationship to anything at all. If you can find an observable or can exemplify an unobserved composite thing that has on relationship to anything in the cosmos, my hats off to you. If you cannot see why you cant, your both in need of help.
Current established scientific practice and theory shows, that is impossible.
I’m not positing religion, nor superstition, nor out of this world fringe philosophy, or against actual science.
So were are you guys pulling this shit out of?
And if it were the case that such particles popped in and out with no cause or dependence on anything? What then?
Your model of "oneness" is based on classical mechanics. It seems to me you are in need of help since there is holes in your interpretation of your "non dual" experience.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Shenmue said: Intelligent people usually end up realizing that life is completely meaningless. It's kind of a side effect and curse of knowing to much. Unfortunately stupid people need religion to get by in life. The average person can't handle too much reality.
That's a common trap actually. The "curse of intellect" is usually just something people say to justify their misery. I mean sure life is meaningless but why point that out and why tell others about it?
I only point it out when I run into ignorant bible thumpers. I can't stand it when people want to throw their religion in my face. I think deep down a lot of those people know its bullshit. Whenever I start ranting about how they're wrong they always interrupt and stop me before I finish my point. They don't even want to hear what I have to say because they know there's truth to it. They honestly are cowards.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The problem is, using something you haven’t the faintest clue of, and misrepresenting it.
Case in point, quantum mechanics. Actually, it’s more than likely non of has any bearing with it all, more than likely everyone has heard a pundit or Tyson or some celeb, or maybe an interview with an actual theorist if your kewl, and more than likely they were expounding on uncharted territory and hypothesizing and generalizing and dumbing it so dark down for the audience that what was heard, is in fact nothing but conjecture based on the implications of the results of an actual experiment.
And that’s not fucking science,
Well it does because I have spoken with people who know this stuff quite well (you dig around the internet enough you find a way but they are pretty open to discussion).
In a sense they try to take this VERY complex subject and relate it in a way that people can understand what it means. It doesn't always work out that way and there are plenty of Woo peddlers out there with no degrees in the subject putting words in their mouths.
However what I can say with relative certainty is that "you" are not the universe.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26591068 - 04/10/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Shenmue said: Intelligent people usually end up realizing that life is completely meaningless. It's kind of a side effect and curse of knowing to much. Unfortunately stupid people need religion to get by in life. The average person can't handle too much reality.
That's a common trap actually. The "curse of intellect" is usually just something people say to justify their misery. I mean sure life is meaningless but why point that out and why tell others about it?
I only point it out when I run into ignorant bible thumpers. I can't stand it when people want to throw their religion in my face. I think deep down a lot of those people know its bullshit. Whenever I start ranting about how they're wrong they always interrupt and stop me before I finish my point. They don't even want to hear what I have to say because they know there's truth to it. They honestly are cowards.
Actually you can't say they are "wrong" because we technically can't prove there is no God. But you can question their evidence for it, and that is little more than a sand castle.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
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Thanatos:"I mean sure life is meaningless"...
That depends on how one perceives life. Why does it have to have meaning? What if the meaning of life is just to enjoy it? Why can't one just enjoy here and now? I try to. This conversation is interesting with all you people though.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The problem is, using something you haven’t the faintest clue of, and misrepresenting it.
Case in point, quantum mechanics. Actually, it’s more than likely non of has any bearing with it all, more than likely everyone has heard a pundit or Tyson or some celeb, or maybe an interview with an actual theorist if your kewl, and more than likely they were expounding on uncharted territory and hypothesizing and generalizing and dumbing it so dark down for the audience that what was heard, is in fact nothing but conjecture based on the implications of the results of an actual experiment.
And that’s not fucking science,
Let's rewind, because I wasn't following the conversation until I posted a page back, so what you're talking about is without any context for me. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that my putting the word unobservable in implies something unscientific, correct? And if so, could you elaborate as to why, and to what point it contradicts that you are arguing for.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591084 - 04/10/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I edited my last statement to contain actual examples, as banal they may be. please reread it.
And, if you aren’t an autodidactic studier, and don’t have at least a degree in the subject, I frankly think your just smearing shit around till it looks pretty.
I’m going to go with the Tiger King , peace people.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I edited my last statement to contain actual examples, as banal they may be. please reread it.
And, if you aren’t an autodidactic studier, and don’t have at least a degree in the subject, I frankly think your just smearing shit around till it looks pretty.
I’m going to go with the Tiger King , peace people.
I don’t trust “self taught” problem on quantum physics as they know nothing when you try to verify their sources.
Sounds to me like you heard something you didn’t like that breaks down what you thought to be true.
Side note: oneness is a feeling to cultivate as it numbs you to others. During the times I was in such a state I cared about nothing and no one because...well you get it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
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I think there is a misunderstanding. Because I'm genuinely lost at what you're trying to say in the post you edited in regards to what I posted. That's not to say there is no connection between what you are saying and what I said, just that I cannot observe a connection.
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Shenmue said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
Shenmue said: Intelligent people usually end up realizing that life is completely meaningless. It's kind of a side effect and curse of knowing to much. Unfortunately stupid people need religion to get by in life. The average person can't handle too much reality.
That's a common trap actually. The "curse of intellect" is usually just something people say to justify their misery. I mean sure life is meaningless but why point that out and why tell others about it?
I only point it out when I run into ignorant bible thumpers. I can't stand it when people want to throw their religion in my face. I think deep down a lot of those people know its bullshit. Whenever I start ranting about how they're wrong they always interrupt and stop me before I finish my point. They don't even want to hear what I have to say because they know there's truth to it. They honestly are cowards.
Actually you can't say they are "wrong" because we technically can't prove there is no God. But you can question their evidence for it, and that is little more than a sand castle.
When did I say there's no God? I never said that. What I'm saying is that religion is man made and complete bullshit. If there is a God it's obvious that he doesn't care about us. Everything on the planet is killing and eating each other so when people say that God is love I find it hilarious. When I say life is meaningless what I mean is that everything is random and that there's probably no afterlife. Even if there was a afterlife time itself would destroy who you are now so it doesn't even matter. You're not the same person you was 10 years ago so imagine a million years down the road. We're going to end no matter what happens. Yes life is basically meaningless..
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591106 - 04/10/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PatrickKn said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The problem is, using something you haven’t the faintest clue of, and misrepresenting it.
Case in point, quantum mechanics. Actually, it’s more than likely non of has any bearing with it all, more than likely everyone has heard a pundit or Tyson or some celeb, or maybe an interview with an actual theorist if your kewl, and more than likely they were expounding on uncharted territory and hypothesizing and generalizing and dumbing it so dark down for the audience that what was heard, is in fact nothing but conjecture based on the implications of the results of an actual experiment.
And that’s not fucking science,
Let's rewind, because I wasn't following the conversation until I posted a page back, so what you're talking about is without any context for me. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that my putting the word unobservable in implies something unscientific, correct? And if so, could you elaborate as to why, and to what point it contradicts that you are arguing for.
We cannot observe the spaghetti monster - that some individuals and groups - claim exists existence, or better yet for the sake of this convo, “if it matters”, then it has at the least some, even the most negligible effect on anything whatsoever... and therefore we can observe with our senses alone or via proxy extension by using an aperture or specially made instrument to infer its existence - more specific than existence - it it as a real phenomena or not.
Difference. You, by definition “exist” in space-time, you matter and you have mass and density and you are affected by the other things that exist too, on a subatomic scale and on a macro cosmic scale.
2ndly, gravity , is not classically “existant” like say you or the sun, so for now it’s phenomena we know of it because of the phenomena it is - or more aptly, the changes it causes on everything else in space-time. We can’t sense it with our eyes, or ears, or tongue (not well atleast or in a normal way of thinking ...but with the sense of touch - contact - that sensation , we can know it. And in calculations with fine instrumentation we can measure it by measuring it effect over time on its surroundings.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 01:37 PM)
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The Blind Ass
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I edited my last statement to contain actual examples, as banal they may be. please reread it.
And, if you aren’t an autodidactic studier, and don’t have at least a degree in the subject, I frankly think your just smearing shit around till it looks pretty.
I’m going to go with the Tiger King , peace people.
I don’t trust “self taught” problem on quantum physics as they know nothing when you try to verify their sources.
Sounds to me like you heard something you didn’t like that breaks down what you thought to be true.
Side note: oneness is a feeling to cultivate as it numbs you to others. During the times I was in such a state I cared about nothing and no one because...well you get it.
1. Ya didn’t read my original post you nut, because I stated the term “oneness” is inaccurate.
2. If you don’t trust self taught, don’t trust yourself, you don’t have a degree in it son.
3. It’s not a feeling to cultivate, its not oneness, it’s non dual awareness and your anecdote does not meet its specifications.
Whatever you experienced sounds like a psychotic episode, not a mystical experience. Actually what your talking about is Solipsism, not the non dual state of primordial awareness, in fact that is as far as you could get, but I can see how experientially they can seem similar if you only know the 1, I’ ha e experience with 2 .
Btw How old are you Thanatos? I may be coming off more harsh than I need to and I want to know, been up for a while so I’m cranky!
Ha
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 01:39 PM)
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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I get the sense that you are confused on my meaning of the word 'observable', and that if taking a deeper look I think we are arguing the same point from different views (in reference to connections that cannot be perceived, but are connected, I haven't commented on anything else you two are talking about). Gravity is an observable force because we can measure its effect. Observability is not limited to that which we can taste and see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobservable
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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And yet we have particles popping in and out without cause and classical causality breaking down. We can't apply "Standard rules" when talking about the quantum world.Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I edited my last statement to contain actual examples, as banal they may be. please reread it.
And, if you aren’t an autodidactic studier, and don’t have at least a degree in the subject, I frankly think your just smearing shit around till it looks pretty.
I’m going to go with the Tiger King , peace people.
I don’t trust “self taught” problem on quantum physics as they know nothing when you try to verify their sources.
Sounds to me like you heard something you didn’t like that breaks down what you thought to be true.
Side note: oneness is a feeling to cultivate as it numbs you to others. During the times I was in such a state I cared about nothing and no one because...well you get it.
1. Ya didn’t read my original post you nut, because I stated the term “oneness” is inaccurate.
2. If you don’t trust self taught, don’t trust yourself, you don’t have a degree in it son.
3. It’s not a feeling to cultivate, its not oneness, it’s non dual awareness and your anecdote does not meet its specifications.
Whatever you experienced sounds like a psychotic episode, not a mystical experience. How old are you Thanatos?
What exactly is the difference between that and a psychotic episode? How is my age relevant at all? If as it was mentioned before it was something known then why would my age matter?
Even non-dual is pitting it against what it isn't (assuming it is an actual thing).
As for #2 I asked people who spent their lives studying the subject and I'm merely telling you what they have said. I ask the experts.
What you posit isn't "it" from other accounts I have heard. There is no joy or love or anything "human". Not that I believe it but their accounts don't match your's so someone is doing something wrong. But then again that's what happens when all you have for your claim is an anecdote.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26591131 - 04/10/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right Pat, Correct, I think we just had a mix up there.
No Thanatos , reality itself just as it is, it’s nature is non dual. Non duality is not in opposition to anything, that’s it nature, it’s open like the sky., there is nothing that it’s interdependent with, it’s an all encompassing nature, hence the term, hence why it’s beyond distinction of “pitted against” or not pitted against, even my attempt to convey it falls short. Look at the cosmos via the sky from your computer, and tell me if it is pitted against something. Although our brains may make pitted arguments about the sky , is it really so? How do you divide it in half?
A child can ask a parent something of which it cannot understand, and the parrot back what was said, without understanding any of how why it is correct, true, or right.
And age is relevant because according to long term medical studies that are credible, our brains don’t fully mature and develope until 25-30, with an margin of error of 5-7. Margin may be slightly off in that I reviewed that material years ago. And I asked because it makes a difference in understanding in general, in discernment, in experience, in life, that’s why. So I was checking.
The US isn’t keen on respecting their elders as a whole (generalization), but there is wisdom in it.
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 01:57 PM)
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HappySloth



Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 280
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
I know that I was born and will die (assuming this isn't a simulation), but I am not "one" with anything.
Do you not breath in the oxygen that plants excrete in order to survive?
Where did you even come from if you are not connected to anything else?
How are you even alive if you are not one with nature? Do you not breath?
This is almost hilarious to me to see people in such denial, such belief in the illusion of seperation. 
Maya is good.
Please stop breathing and tell me you are not one with anything
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
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Quote:
HappySloth said:
Quote:
I know that I was born and will die (assuming this isn't a simulation), but I am not "one" with anything.
Do you not breath in the oxygen that plants excrete in order to survive?
Where did you even come from if you are not connected to anything else?
How are you even alive if you are not one with nature? Do you not breath?
This is almost hilarious to me to see people in such denial, such belief in the illusion of seperation. 
Maya is good.
Please stop breathing and tell me you are not one with anything 
It seems you don't understand what is meant by separateness. I am not "one with nature".
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: HappySloth] 1
#26591176 - 04/10/20 02:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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He had a bout of unfortunate solipsism, forgive me Than if I was a jerk.
I’ve seen individuals and groups of them attempt to discredit interdependent origination for decades, and I haven’t seen it done once with a rational line of reasoning that held up to any logical scrutiny. It is the axiom for my earlier story, but I think we’ve all had enough of that.
Tiger time
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26591181 - 04/10/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
HappySloth said:
Quote:
I know that I was born and will die (assuming this isn't a simulation), but I am not "one" with anything.
Do you not breath in the oxygen that plants excrete in order to survive?
Where did you even come from if you are not connected to anything else?
How are you even alive if you are not one with nature? Do you not breath?
This is almost hilarious to me to see people in such denial, such belief in the illusion of seperation. 
Maya is good.
Please stop breathing and tell me you are not one with anything 
It seems you don't understand what is meant by separateness. I am not "one with nature".
Right, the nature of reality is non-dual, that’s better than being 1 measly stinking thing 
But the separation is superficial, I mean didn’t you literally grow out of your mom attached to an umbilical cord, she grew ya akin to the way a tree grows an apple!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/10/20 02:08 PM)
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HappySloth



Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 280
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
didn’t you literally grow out of your mom attached to an umbilical cord, she grew ya akin to the way a tree grows an apple!
Exactly.
This is why I am laughing at the denial.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Right Pat, Correct, I think we just had a mix up there.
No Thanatos , reality itself just as it is, it’s nature is non dual. Non duality is not in opposition to anything, that’s it nature, it’s open like the sky., there is nothing that it’s interdependent with, it’s an all encompassing nature, hence the term, hence why it’s beyond distinction of “pitted against” or not pitted against, even my attempt to convey it falls short. Look at the cosmos via the sky from your computer, and tell me if it is pitted against something. Although our brains may make pitted arguments about the sky , is it really so? How do you divide it in half?
A child can ask a parent something of which it cannot understand, and the parrot back what was said, without understanding any of how why it is correct, true, or right.
And age is relevant because according to long term medical studies that are credible, our brains don’t fully mature and develope until 25-30, with an margin of error of 5-7. Margin may be slightly off in that I reviewed that material years ago. And I asked because it makes a difference in understanding in general, in discernment, in experience, in life, that’s why. So I was checking.
The US isn’t keen on respecting their elders as a whole (generalization), but there is wisdom in it.
Elders are just folks from a previous generation stuck in old ways of thinking.
But nonduality is pitted against something, that being duality. It's literally in the word. The "cosmos" as you see it is pitted against something, entropy though that is a losing battle. One can even see duality in nature in the relationship with predator and prey, or competing with mates.
Reality isn't just "is". It's an ongoing "hallucination" in that it's our brains making a best guess of what's out there.
Even if nonduality was the nature of reality (it isn't) I fail to see how that applies to anything else. You can't really build anything off of that and it still leads to the "psychotic episode" you claimed I had. Like I said, there is no love, joy, or anything when you "gaze" into it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
HappySloth said:
Quote:
I know that I was born and will die (assuming this isn't a simulation), but I am not "one" with anything.
Do you not breath in the oxygen that plants excrete in order to survive?
Where did you even come from if you are not connected to anything else?
How are you even alive if you are not one with nature? Do you not breath?
This is almost hilarious to me to see people in such denial, such belief in the illusion of seperation. 
Maya is good.
Please stop breathing and tell me you are not one with anything 
It seems you don't understand what is meant by separateness. I am not "one with nature".
Right, the nature of reality is non-dual, that’s better than being 1 measly stinking thing 
But the separation is superficial, I mean didn’t you literally grow out of your mom attached to an umbilical cord, she grew ya akin to the way a tree grows an apple!
That's still separation though, you talk of Maya when it seems like you guys are in denial.
I mean you are also implying there are other "things" to be connected with when you cannot know such.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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HappySloth



Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 280
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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The apple does not see, that he is the apple and the seed and the tree
he is the soil beneath, he is the wind, he is time and space, dimension....
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26591210 - 04/10/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said:
I only point it out when I run into ignorant bible thumpers. I can't stand it when people want to throw their religion in my face. I think deep down a lot of those people know its bullshit. Whenever I start ranting about how they're wrong they always interrupt and stop me before I finish my point. They don't even want to hear what I have to say because they know there's truth to it. They honestly are cowards.
I've never really understood the sheer hatred and venom some people have for religious people. Like I said before, I'm not religious. Haven't been to a church service in well over 20 years.
But I don't hate them. Or think they're cowards. Or think they're lesser. Or think they're stupid. I've met a number of religious people along the way, and a lot of them seemed like good people. Harmless if anything. Of course you do have your very judgmental religious folk, and I do get the disdain for that.
Do some of y'all get bombarded with people trying to force their religion on you or something? What's up with the seething hatred for them?
I don't know I mean maybe I don't look like I'm worth converting or saving but they always leave me alone 
So at best I'm indifferent when it comes to religious people
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla] 1
#26591222 - 04/10/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
Shenmue said:
I only point it out when I run into ignorant bible thumpers. I can't stand it when people want to throw their religion in my face. I think deep down a lot of those people know its bullshit. Whenever I start ranting about how they're wrong they always interrupt and stop me before I finish my point. They don't even want to hear what I have to say because they know there's truth to it. They honestly are cowards.
I've never really understood the sheer hatred and venom some people have for religious people. Like I said before, I'm not religious. Haven't been to a church service in well over 20 years.
But I don't hate them. Or think they're cowards. Or think they're lesser. Or think they're stupid. I've met a number of religious people along the way, and a lot of them seemed like good people. Harmless if anything. Of course you do have your very judgmental religious folk, and I do get the disdain for that.
Do some of y'all get bombarded with people trying to force their religion on you or something? What's up with the seething hatred for them?
I don't know I mean maybe I don't look like I'm worth converting or saving but they always leave me alone 
So at best I'm indifferent when it comes to religious people
Because it's an easy target. It's like Hitler, if you're cool you say you hate him (not saying I condone what he set into motion obviously).
I'm not sure if it's a few bad apples though. Being gay I have a complicated relationship with religion which hates me for just existing. I don't hate them, but I don't like the influence religion can extend to people who don't practice it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
HappySloth said: The apple does not see, that he is the apple and the seed and the tree
he is the soil beneath, he is the wind, he is time and space, dimension....
No, apples have no gender.
Also the apple isn't time and space, it's an apple. It's not the soil, it's not the wind, it's just an apple. That's what happens when you take a personal experience to mean something, it clouds everything else.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: but I don't like the influence religion can extend to people who don't practice it.
True, true.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla]
#26591228 - 04/10/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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You don't understand why some people dislike religion? Some of us was raised in extremely religious family's and have seen the harm it causes.
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deucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,594
Loc: UK
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Don't know how it all started, therefore...God
-------------------- whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows... it's a bugger to cycle in. even though I'm feeling good Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue] 1
#26591240 - 04/10/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I mean it's hard to not hate them because my life is harder because of their irrational belief that me having sex with a guy is immoral when it has no impact on their own lives. I don't know how this homophobia got started but it's idiotic and I'm sick and tired of it, trying to make me feel bad for something that isn't even harmful.
But they have numbers and power and in a sense I am afraid because of that. They also have the will to do to me what I won't do to them.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue] 1
#26591267 - 04/10/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said: You don't understand why some people dislike religion?
No I completely understand why someone would not be down with religion in and of itself. I'm not either.
What I don't understand is holding a bunch of hate & anger inside for any of them. What good does that do. Then again I think holding hate inside for pretty much anyone is completely pointless.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I mean it's hard to not hate them because my life is harder because of their irrational belief that me having sex with a guy is immoral when it has no impact on their own lives. I don't know how this homophobia got started but it's idiotic and I'm sick and tired of it, trying to make me feel bad for something that isn't even harmful.
But they have numbers and power and in a sense I am afraid because of that. They also have the will to do to me what I won't do to them.
I'm not in the same boat so I haven't experienced this. But yes I can see how this would make you feel that way. No doubt.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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HappySloth



Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 280
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
HappySloth said: The apple does not see, that he is the apple and the seed and the tree
he is the soil beneath, he is the wind, he is time and space, dimension....
No, apples have no gender.
Also the apple isn't time and space, it's an apple. It's not the soil, it's not the wind, it's just an apple. That's what happens when you take a personal experience to mean something, it clouds everything else.

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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla] 1
#26591274 - 04/10/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
Shenmue said: You don't understand why some people dislike religion?
No I completely understand why someone would not be down with religion in and of itself. I'm not either.
What I don't understand is holding a bunch of hate & anger inside for any of them. What good does that do. Then again I think holding hate inside for pretty much anyone is completely pointless.
I do too, which is why I don't "hate" anyone, just temporarily dislike them.
But when they want you dead and burning in hell for simply existing...well...
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
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Quote:
HappySloth said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
HappySloth said: The apple does not see, that he is the apple and the seed and the tree
he is the soil beneath, he is the wind, he is time and space, dimension....
No, apples have no gender.
Also the apple isn't time and space, it's an apple. It's not the soil, it's not the wind, it's just an apple. That's what happens when you take a personal experience to mean something, it clouds everything else.


You just reinforce my claim that it leads to apathy towards every "thing" else. I mean I would have to throw away romance and friendships for such a view.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Darwin23
INFJ



Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 3,277
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 16 hours
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Quote:
shroomening said: If God does not exist - nor a different dimension than ours in which we live - then existence and life are meaningless. You understand that right?
Why care about anything other than yourself then? Nice people finish last, right? Seems that those who worship Satan succeed better in our world than those who worship God.
Strange though, if God did not exist. How can the entire universe just explode into existence - if there is no underlying dimension to explode and start from?
This line of thinking has always frightened me. Would you really be a rapist, thief or murderer in the absence of God watching you? If everything is meaningless, btw so is happiness, success, everything.
The universe exploded outwards because in the universe before, all of the matter condensed into a timeless singularity. We already know that time slows and slows the closer we get to a black hole. A timeless thing with all of the mass of the universe doesn't seem so absurd.
But why care? Our DNA is nothing more than a virus rearranging the particles of the universe into our self-replicating system. All of your thoughts are electrical currents in an endless ocean of subatomic particles. All of your feelings are tiny chemicals responding to waves inside of this atomic soup. They are not special nor are your thoughts and feelings something you control. The reaction is automatic and the release is conditioned by the DNA virus that you replicated from or from previous reactions which carved tiny little runways to tell the chemicals when and where to go.
I see that and I know it to be true but I still seek happiness. I can only know feelings up until the moment I die. I might as well make the best of it.
--------------------
Take a look at my journal
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HappySloth



Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 280
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Thanatos10] 2
#26592760 - 04/11/20 05:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Consciousness is the only thing I know exists.
I think therefore I am.
I am that which cannot be doubted.
Matter can be an illusion. It can be doubted.
This is why matter cannot be primary and consciousness is.
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla]
#26593510 - 04/11/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
Shenmue said: You don't understand why some people dislike religion?
No I completely understand why someone would not be down with religion in and of itself. I'm not either.
What I don't understand is holding a bunch of hate & anger inside for any of them. What good does that do. Then again I think holding hate inside for pretty much anyone is completely pointless.
It's like talking to a wall. Hate and anger is the only way to stop their bullshit. If we just sit here and pretend like it doesn't matter nothing will ever change! There's nothing wrong disliking ignorant and rude people.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue] 1
#26593521 - 04/11/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said:
It's like talking to a wall. Hate and anger is the only way to stop their bullshit. If we just sit here and pretend like it doesn't matter nothing will ever change! There's nothing wrong disliking ignorant and rude people.
Hate & anger solve nothing. And it's not going to change them. I would just ignore them and move on. But whatever floats your boat.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I mean it's hard to not hate them because my life is harder because of their irrational belief that me having sex with a guy is immoral when it has no impact on their own lives. I don't know how this homophobia got started but it's idiotic and I'm sick and tired of it, trying to make me feel bad for something that isn't even harmful.
But they have numbers and power and in a sense I am afraid because of that. They also have the will to do to me what I won't do to them.
Religion needs to go. If someone is over the age of 30 and they're against gay marriage I automatically assume they're mentally retarded or a complete asshole.
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla]
#26593538 - 04/11/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
Shenmue said:
It's like talking to a wall. Hate and anger is the only way to stop their bullshit. If we just sit here and pretend like it doesn't matter nothing will ever change! There's nothing wrong disliking ignorant and rude people.
Hate & anger solve nothing. And it's not going to change them. I would just ignore them and move on. But whatever floats your boat.
That's such a stupid thing to say.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26593663 - 04/11/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said:
Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
Shenmue said:
It's like talking to a wall. Hate and anger is the only way to stop their bullshit. If we just sit here and pretend like it doesn't matter nothing will ever change! There's nothing wrong disliking ignorant and rude people.
Hate & anger solve nothing. And it's not going to change them. I would just ignore them and move on. But whatever floats your boat.
That's such a stupid thing to say.
Okay best of luck on your quest changing every religious person out there big guy 

Keep me posted on how it goes.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
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Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla]
#26593972 - 04/11/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Picked up on this thread late, read last page. Anger is a great motivator, research shows its better than positive reinforcement in the work place for productivity. No I wont look up source, find it yourself.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Ice9] 1
#26594101 - 04/11/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think i'll pass on looking up the source to tell me how being angry is better for me. But thanks.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla]
#26594229 - 04/11/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said: I think i'll pass on looking up the source to tell me how being angry is better for me. But thanks.
That hippie attitude doesn't actually work in the real world. Hints why most of the billionaires are assholes and most of the kind people live paycheck to paycheck. Almost every boss I've ever had was a complete asshole so no I don't believe being nice gets the job done. Most nice people get picked on.. you have to put your foot down and say THAT'S ENOUGH MOTHER FUCKER!!!
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,657
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue] 3
#26594245 - 04/11/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Your extrapolating you’re relatively tiny life experience to the entire world and making some grand claims that all bosses and wealthy or successful individuals as being limited to one personality. But do you really know? Or are you pretending you know everyone in the world well enough to be sure of yourself in this proposition? (I know a couple of multimillionaires who are wholesome people and good people, living a more noble life than some others). Just become one has ideals and similar morals and practices as a hippy, doesn’t mean they are a living door mat. There’s nothing compassionate or wise about being one, and it’s generally only assumed to be spiritual in practice due to some error of understanding a deeply esoteric wisdom.
Niffla’s currently running the world under the guise of a shroomery mod, the Us economy reopens when he unban it...Case closed.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/11/20 08:49 PM)
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Ice9
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Here is a way to put I think all here can understand. We have emotions, negative, positive and neutral for a reason. To decide one does not fit you're paradigm of living, is to spit in the face of the wholeness of the human being and human nature. You are intentionally handicapping yourself, I suspect because you never learned effective coping mechanisms for anger/rage/hatred. Those emotions do not have to lead to negative outcomes, though left unchecked with no means of dealing with them they often do.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
Edited by Ice9 (04/11/20 08:52 PM)
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
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I said MOST not every!!! I talk about most Billionaires then you bring up millionaires! Do you understand the difference between a billion and a million? It's a huuuuuuuuuuge difference! Hell I have family members that are millionaire's! Most doctors I know have that kind of money. YES most middle class bosses are assholes!!! Not every boss but MOST! Most people I know would agree with that statement. I fucking hate it when people put words in my mouth.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue]
#26594262 - 04/11/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually anger is good when you can harness it but bad if ruled by it. I wouldn’t call saying no to emotions spitting in the face of human nature. It’s part of human nature to suppress or control emotions
Anger gives direction without purpose.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue] 2
#26594266 - 04/11/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have the power and ability to make words into a physical sandwich, and then reach through space time to Stuff the word sandwich into your mouth.
My my, seems like.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I have the power and ability to make words into a physical sandwich, and then reach through space time to Stuff the word sandwich into your mouth.
My my, seems like. 
You don't have the ability to be a intelligent person.
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Ice9
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla]
#26594274 - 04/11/20 09:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Actually anger is good when you can harness it but bad if ruled by it. I wouldn’t call saying no to emotions spitting in the face of human nature. It’s part of human nature to suppress or control emotions
Anger gives direction without purpose.
Sorry if it was unclear I was replying to this
Quote:
Niffla said: I think i'll pass on looking up the source to tell me how being angry is better for me. But thanks.
Which makes it seem he rejects anger inherently.
MY statements and your's are essentially the same, anger, when controlled is important. Infinitely suppressed I can only imagine oft time leads to greater negative outcomes than if expressed in the moment.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Ice9]
#26594280 - 04/11/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ralph is always special
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Ice9] 3
#26594285 - 04/11/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't believe he was rejecting anger inherently. He was rejecting your snarky suggestion that he look up studies that had nothing to do with anything he was saying.
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Ice9
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26594296 - 04/11/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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He said hate and anger solve nothing, I pointed out the anger can solve a lack of motivation. Unsure how that is snarky or off topic.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Ice9] 2
#26594307 - 04/11/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: He said hate and anger solve nothing, I pointed out the anger can solve a lack of motivation. Unsure how that is snarky or off topic.
He was referring to it solving nothing in regards to hating on religious people in general because of bad experiences in upbringing. Harnessing onto that hate with no positive outcome or eventual release that normally comes from directed anger doesn't solve anything was what he was referring to.
The snarky bit was here:
Quote:
Ice9 said: No I wont look up source, find it yourself.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Shenmue] 1
#26594330 - 04/11/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hug an angry man and you will see he is crying  That is, if he doesn’t punch you in the face first.Quote:
Shenmue said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I have the power and ability to make words into a physical sandwich, and then reach through space time to Stuff the word sandwich into your mouth.
My my, seems like. 
You don't have the ability to be a intelligent person.
That’s unfortunate. What should I do now? I’m currently stuck against a wall, how do I get unstuck? Advice please.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Ice9
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26594349 - 04/11/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think I stated I started this thread on last page. I obviously missed some vital information in the discussion and may have derailed such was not my intent, apologies good sir's and madam's.
The second point, I have been accused on various sub-forums of not providing evidence/references for my points. I do not mean to be snarky but see how it can be taken as such. It is a lot of work to look up all the the references/articles I may reference. So I usually take a proactive stance that I have given enough information for those seeking to find it. Again, not my intent to come across as a snarky asshole. I obviously missed a huge and important part of this thread and that is my fault.
Edits: lots cause I cant spell or type accurately
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
Edited by Ice9 (04/11/20 09:30 PM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Ice9]
#26594362 - 04/11/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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. Opinions stated here aren’t necessarily what the poster really holds true anyways. Mucho chaos bc of that, and non acting posts happen less often via caprice and what not. I’m sure I’m not the only one to take advantage of the anonymity provided by the internet. my neighbor and I pretended to be a girl back in the AOL days of the early 90s to troll chat rooms. Dolphin89... those were the days..
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/11/20 09:37 PM)
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Niffla’s currently running the world under the guise of a shroomery mod, the Us economy reopens when he unban it...Case closed.

Yes....yes. And I shall give it a few more months to get the stocks I want to drop to a very cost affordable sum

And then I will buy them all
--------------------
HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Niffla] 1
#26594377 - 04/11/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
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--------------------
HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



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I may already own some of those stocks, do I sell, hold, buy.... fuck spiraling out of control... make me money, or more money as the case may be.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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tyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: Ice9]
#26597408 - 04/13/20 08:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Darwin wrote: "But why care? Our DNA is nothing more than a virus rearranging the particles of the universe into our self-replicating system. All of your thoughts are electrical currents in an endless ocean of subatomic particles. All of your feelings are tiny chemicals responding to waves inside of this atomic soup. They are not special nor are your thoughts and feelings something you control. The reaction is automatic and the release is conditioned by the DNA virus that you replicated from or from previous reactions which carved tiny little runways to tell the chemicals when and where to go.
I see that and I know it to be true but I still seek happiness. I can only know feelings up until the moment I die. I might as well make the best of it".
I love this! 
As for the anger statements:
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The Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
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It’s special in that it is the perfect recipe that endows and grants us natural sentient life! Between the options of nothing and sentient life - and with it the limitless dimensions of phenomena and experience and the relationships we find during our brief transit in the here and now as embodied beings in space time while alive and sentient - I most joyously choose the latter   
Best gift, best chance, best thing ever. It’s pure, natural, primordial great perfection if you ask me. It’s like the my life and the cosmos is the highest expression of magical illusion. Fuck yeah!
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 09:03 AM)
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
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That's why I always say to people getting too deep to just relax and enjoy life.   

I do enjoy these deep thoughts and expressions on the subject.
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shroomening

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So, seems almost like we all came to the same conclusions that I said from the beginning creating this thread. Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
Or.. one believes in God, loves God and in this way loves himself - because as the bible says - "the kingdom of God is within you". And so is filled with strong internal love, that is independent of someone else other than himself - because he love himself, and so God ("God is love"). And is thus filled with "the holy spirit" - and thus becomes more alive and energetic and capable as a human being - because the opposite (low love within oneself, such as depression) makes one weak and incapable to take on life - which we can all probably testify to. And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams - which, incidentally, is good to be able to visualize - which one easily does by being cognitively creative - what love seems makes one more able to.
Then there is always the dopamine path - not to be driven by love - but by money, libido, sex - to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant. A bit like choosing between God and Satan.
Finally, regarding beliefs, probably the most important thing is to have something to believe in, which strengthens your belief in achieving what you are trying to achieve. Most great people who have succeeded have had a strong belief in something that has kept them on track. So being an atheist or sticking with it may not be best for one's life and success in life.
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living - in this meaningless existence. That is of course if one does not believe that some higher power was behind the creation of existence.
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shroomening

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Btw, speaking of gay, this is just an open question that I think is fair to discuss openly without being called called homophobic. After all, you have to be able to speak truth without being hated, or else everyone in the world can blame themselves for all the injustice and evil and destruction of the planet that is going on and takes us all to death because the majority refuses to face truth because it hurts their feelings. That being said, I don't mind being gay, I have a friend who is gay, and have always thought they are nice people. Everyone has free will. God would say that too, I'm sure. After all, God is unconditional love.
But now, it is not true that gay does not exist anywhere in nature, and that nowhere in biology does it exists anything other than male or female? Doesn't that make gay something that man himself has developed with his thoughts, and has nothing to do with nature? Doesn't that mean that a gay is a man who is weak in nature, and goes against his own nature? Doesn't that mean that gay is a mental illness in that case, since it is not healthy in accordance with its own nature, whose nature, for example, is to mate with a female to carry on life?
Just curious to hear
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
shroomening said: Btw, speaking of gay, this is just an open question that I think is fair to discuss openly without being called called homophobic. After all, you have to be able to speak truth without being hated, or else everyone in the world can blame themselves for all the injustice and evil and destruction of the planet that is going on and takes us all to death because the majority refuses to face truth because it hurts their feelings. That being said, I don't mind being gay, I have a friend who is gay, and have always thought they are nice people. Everyone has free will. God would say that too, I'm sure. After all, God is unconditional love.
But now, it is not true that gay does not exist anywhere in nature, and that nowhere in biology does it exists anything other than male or female? Doesn't that make gay something that man himself has developed with his thoughts, and has nothing to do with nature? Doesn't that mean that a gay is a man who is weak in nature, and goes against his own nature? Doesn't that mean that gay is a mental illness in that case, since it is not healthy in accordance with its own nature, whose nature, for example, is to mate with a female to carry on life?
Just curious to hear
Your entire post is wrong and has been proven wrong dozens of times over.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
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Also unconditional love doesn’t exist.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Mammals are randy, in bio it’s know that in nature there are innumerable incidents where they have sex and do stuff regardless of male or female all the time throughout history throughout the animal kingdom.
Also, if a woman gives you head, it’s not a mental illness just because she’s putting your dick in her mouth or ass (the wrong organs if your trying to reproduce and procreate because those aren’t reproductive organs) your putting your dick in her mouth/ass (not putting it in a reproductive organ) yet it happens throughout nature and animal kingdom, in human too. So either the we have an animal kingdom that is mentally ill, or it’s natural - so it’s natural. Easy peasy.
That’s not even the best argument(s) there is about this subject, but it’s good enough to demonstrate the point clearly.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 09:42 PM)
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Thanatos10
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I know, it’s just that being gay it’s a bit of a sore spot when you get people trying to insist it’s wrong or a mental illness when it’s nothing of the sort.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
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Also gay and straight don’t even come close to the complexity that is human sexuality, but repressive ideas forced on us by society prevent a full expression of it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Alright then, as long as you are happy.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Also gay and straight don’t even come close to the complexity that is human sexuality, but repressive ideas forced on us by society prevent a full expression of it.
  
OP: there are over one hundred and fifty animals that practice same sex sex. I did a paper on it in an English class. If you like to read books try this one, since you brought it up and seem to be influenced by religion.

Quote:
shroomening said: So, seems almost like we all came to the same conclusions that I said from the beginning creating this thread. Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
Or.. one believes in God, loves God and in this way loves himself - because as the bible says - "the kingdom of God is within you". And so is filled with strong internal love, that is independent of someone else other than himself - because he love himself, and so God ("God is love"). And is thus filled with "the holy spirit" - and thus becomes more alive and energetic and capable as a human being - because the opposite (low love within oneself, such as depression) makes one weak and incapable to take on life - which we can all probably testify to. And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams - which, incidentally, is good to be able to visualize - which one easily does by being cognitively creative - what love seems makes one more able to.
Then there is always the dopamine path - not to be driven by love - but by money, libido, sex - to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant. A bit like choosing between God and Satan.
Finally, regarding beliefs, probably the most important thing is to have something to believe in, which strengthens your belief in achieving what you are trying to achieve. Most great people who have succeeded have had a strong belief in something that has kept them on track. So being an atheist or sticking with it may not be best for one's life and success in life.
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living - in this meaningless existence. That is of course if one does not believe that some higher power was behind the creation of existence.
Hmmm, there is a lot to comment on here.
Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
What about the televangelists who claim self righteousness and are multi millionaires, but refuse to fly on commercial airplanes, they insist on a private jet to get away from sitting among demons etc...what do they give to anyone but themselves? How are they not "satan like"?
And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams -
Very subjective and variable, unless you hold some form(s) of "success" in mind that are mainstream, in the news and pop culture.
to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant.
Sounds like a personal problem to me
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living
There's a lot to be said for agnosticism IMHE.
in this meaningless existence.
Once again, that is your opinion and seems like a personal problem to me.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
shroomening said: Alright then, as long as you are happy.
It’s not a matter of that it’s that what you are saying is demonstrably wrong.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
shroomening said: Alright then, as long as you are happy.
It’s not a matter of that it’s that what you are saying is demonstrably wrong.
 
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
Posts: 234
Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Also gay and straight don’t even come close to the complexity that is human sexuality, but repressive ideas forced on us by society prevent a full expression of it.
  
OP: there are over one hundred and fifty animals that practice same sex sex. I did a paper on it in an English class. If you like to read books try this one, since you brought it up and seem to be influenced by religion.

Quote:
shroomening said: So, seems almost like we all came to the same conclusions that I said from the beginning creating this thread. Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
Or.. one believes in God, loves God and in this way loves himself - because as the bible says - "the kingdom of God is within you". And so is filled with strong internal love, that is independent of someone else other than himself - because he love himself, and so God ("God is love"). And is thus filled with "the holy spirit" - and thus becomes more alive and energetic and capable as a human being - because the opposite (low love within oneself, such as depression) makes one weak and incapable to take on life - which we can all probably testify to. And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams - which, incidentally, is good to be able to visualize - which one easily does by being cognitively creative - what love seems makes one more able to.
Then there is always the dopamine path - not to be driven by love - but by money, libido, sex - to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant. A bit like choosing between God and Satan.
Finally, regarding beliefs, probably the most important thing is to have something to believe in, which strengthens your belief in achieving what you are trying to achieve. Most great people who have succeeded have had a strong belief in something that has kept them on track. So being an atheist or sticking with it may not be best for one's life and success in life.
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living - in this meaningless existence. That is of course if one does not believe that some higher power was behind the creation of existence.
Hmmm, there is a lot to comment on here.
Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
What about the televangelists who claim self righteousness and are multi millionaires, but refuse to fly on commercial airplanes, they insist on a private jet to get away from sitting among demons etc...what do they give to anyone but themselves? How are they not "satan like"?
And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams -
Very subjective and variable, unless you hold some form(s) of "success" in mind that are mainstream, in the news and pop culture.
to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant.
Sounds like a personal problem to me
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living
There's a lot to be said for agnosticism IMHE.
in this meaningless existence.
Once again, that is your opinion and seems like a personal problem to me.
Thanks for the information, I didn't know.
Yes they are hypocrites, which is also "satan-like". But that's what I mean, it seems that "satan-like" benefits one more when it comes to making money. Even though it is bad to be so.
Yes, I meant "success" in mind that are mainstream. No money no honey.
Haha yeah. Maybe the majority of people who goes for that have personal problems. Mental illness is common today after all.
Yes you are probably right about that.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation. You may confuse what I mean by meaningless. I talk about meaning in sense of creation. Then finding a meaning to live for is another matter. But then when you die we are back to the question of the meaning of existence. And that's what I mean is meaningless unless God exists.
I believe in higher power, some kind of universal consciousness, which I see as God. So to me it is not meaningless. Neither in life nor on existential level. I just want to hear arguments from both sides, because it's interesting to get more perspectives on things. I'm just pointing this out.
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Thanatos10
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Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
People make meaning all the time - yes, in their lives. But I'm talking about the meaning that you were created and exist at all. You come from nature. Why did nature create you? And why was the universe created that then created nature?
If the universe was created by chance, then there is no point. But if the universe was created by a creator - there must be a meaning. So, are you saying it was created by chance or by a creator?
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shroomening

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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
What do you mean by "why"? How can there be a meaning to existence unless there is a creator who created existence with meaning?
You can't say that the universe was created by chance - and yet created for a purpose.
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Thanatos10
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No one is saying the universe was created as that implies a creator for which there is no evidence. Also having a creator doesn’t give the universe a purpose either.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: No one is saying the universe was created as that implies a creator for which there is no evidence. Also having a creator doesn’t give the universe a purpose either.
If the universe was not created, how can you be here? Either an explosion created it according to the big bang, right? Or God created the big bang, right? Either way, the universe is created. You're here after all.
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Thanatos10
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No it wasn’t created for that implies a creator. We don’t know what was before the big bang
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
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Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
What do you mean by "why"? How can there be a meaning to existence unless there is a creator who created existence with meaning?
You can't say that the universe was created by chance - and yet created for a purpose.
Why does there have to be one (a meaning to existence) for you? Just enjoy.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Last seen: 3 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: No it wasn’t created for that implies a creator. We don’t know what was before the big bang
So what are you saying? How is it that the universe come to exist?
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
What do you mean by "why"? How can there be a meaning to existence unless there is a creator who created existence with meaning?
You can't say that the universe was created by chance - and yet created for a purpose.
Why does there have to be one (a meaning to existence) for you? Just enjoy.
Bro, I really enjoy. But when you have been close to dying, you begin to question what the meaning of existence is. Then after that the question remains there. So you get curious. But it does not affect my way of enjoying life. I enjoy it. Love is life.
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Thanatos10
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Who says there is a meaning to it? The meaning made is by humans.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Who says there is a meaning to it? The meaning made is by humans.
If let's say a universal consciousness or intelligence that we ourselves have the spark of in our consciousness created us, and creates the universe as a matrix mathematical code - then it is obvious that it has a purpose/meaning.
But if the universe just came to be by chance, then nothing is behind the creation - and then there is no agenda in creating the universe - and so no meaning.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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I think you can boil things down to two different arguments and get the same baseless conclusion from either.
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of a higher being. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of a higher being.
Both arguments are invalid in the "evidence" of a higher being, they don't prove or hint at a higher being in and of themselves, because the counter arguments can be made that:
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of random chance. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of random chance.
Likewise a faulty conclusion based on the premise. Both could be wrong, but both assertions are correct, it's both simple and complex depending on your frame of reference. Those assertions do not say anything about the creation of the Universe however.
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shroomening

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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26600159 - 04/14/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PatrickKn said: I think you can boil things down to two different arguments and get the same baseless conclusion from either.
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of a higher being. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of a higher being.
Both arguments are invalid in the "evidence" of a higher being, they don't prove or hint at a higher being in and of themselves, because the counter arguments can be made that:
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of random chance. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of random chance.
Likewise a faulty conclusion based on the premise. Both could be wrong, but both assertions are correct, it's both simple and complex depending on your frame of reference. Those assertions do not say anything about the creation of the Universe however.
Guess we end up as Agnostics then.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Well not quite, because knowing that you cannot prove something, and believing in something are two different things.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Who says there is a meaning to it? The meaning made is by humans.
If let's say a universal consciousness or intelligence that we ourselves have the spark of in our consciousness created us, and creates the universe as a matrix mathematical code - then it is obvious that it has a purpose/meaning.
But if the universe just came to be by chance, then nothing is behind the creation - and then there is no agenda in creating the universe - and so no meaning.
Your first claim is false in that it implies purpose. All it implies is creation/creator, not purpose.
Either way I see no reason to believe in a creator at all, and to be honest it hasn't been a relevant point in my day to day life.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26600176 - 04/14/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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...and therein lies the answer.
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