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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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tyrannicalrex said:
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Thanatos10 said: Also gay and straight don’t even come close to the complexity that is human sexuality, but repressive ideas forced on us by society prevent a full expression of it.
  
OP: there are over one hundred and fifty animals that practice same sex sex. I did a paper on it in an English class. If you like to read books try this one, since you brought it up and seem to be influenced by religion.

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shroomening said: So, seems almost like we all came to the same conclusions that I said from the beginning creating this thread. Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
Or.. one believes in God, loves God and in this way loves himself - because as the bible says - "the kingdom of God is within you". And so is filled with strong internal love, that is independent of someone else other than himself - because he love himself, and so God ("God is love"). And is thus filled with "the holy spirit" - and thus becomes more alive and energetic and capable as a human being - because the opposite (low love within oneself, such as depression) makes one weak and incapable to take on life - which we can all probably testify to. And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams - which, incidentally, is good to be able to visualize - which one easily does by being cognitively creative - what love seems makes one more able to.
Then there is always the dopamine path - not to be driven by love - but by money, libido, sex - to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant. A bit like choosing between God and Satan.
Finally, regarding beliefs, probably the most important thing is to have something to believe in, which strengthens your belief in achieving what you are trying to achieve. Most great people who have succeeded have had a strong belief in something that has kept them on track. So being an atheist or sticking with it may not be best for one's life and success in life.
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living - in this meaningless existence. That is of course if one does not believe that some higher power was behind the creation of existence.
Hmmm, there is a lot to comment on here.
Life is meaningless in the sense that the world was created without purpose, and that it is best to just think of yourself (ego), a little bit "satan-like" to succeed in this world - for material / money.
What about the televangelists who claim self righteousness and are multi millionaires, but refuse to fly on commercial airplanes, they insist on a private jet to get away from sitting among demons etc...what do they give to anyone but themselves? How are they not "satan like"?
And even less likely to succeed or create the life of your dreams -
Very subjective and variable, unless you hold some form(s) of "success" in mind that are mainstream, in the news and pop culture.
to fuck girls and conquer them and feel dominant.
Sounds like a personal problem to me
And you should probably be careful which side you choose to stand on, as atheist or not - and what you choose to believe in. If you are going to create a life you want to live, or rather that is worth living
There's a lot to be said for agnosticism IMHE.
in this meaningless existence.
Once again, that is your opinion and seems like a personal problem to me.
Thanks for the information, I didn't know.
Yes they are hypocrites, which is also "satan-like". But that's what I mean, it seems that "satan-like" benefits one more when it comes to making money. Even though it is bad to be so.
Yes, I meant "success" in mind that are mainstream. No money no honey.
Haha yeah. Maybe the majority of people who goes for that have personal problems. Mental illness is common today after all.
Yes you are probably right about that.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation. You may confuse what I mean by meaningless. I talk about meaning in sense of creation. Then finding a meaning to live for is another matter. But then when you die we are back to the question of the meaning of existence. And that's what I mean is meaningless unless God exists.
I believe in higher power, some kind of universal consciousness, which I see as God. So to me it is not meaningless. Neither in life nor on existential level. I just want to hear arguments from both sides, because it's interesting to get more perspectives on things. I'm just pointing this out.
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Thanatos10
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Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Last seen: 3 months, 5 hours
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
People make meaning all the time - yes, in their lives. But I'm talking about the meaning that you were created and exist at all. You come from nature. Why did nature create you? And why was the universe created that then created nature?
If the universe was created by chance, then there is no point. But if the universe was created by a creator - there must be a meaning. So, are you saying it was created by chance or by a creator?
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
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Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
What do you mean by "why"? How can there be a meaning to existence unless there is a creator who created existence with meaning?
You can't say that the universe was created by chance - and yet created for a purpose.
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Thanatos10
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No one is saying the universe was created as that implies a creator for which there is no evidence. Also having a creator doesn’t give the universe a purpose either.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Thanatos10 said: No one is saying the universe was created as that implies a creator for which there is no evidence. Also having a creator doesn’t give the universe a purpose either.
If the universe was not created, how can you be here? Either an explosion created it according to the big bang, right? Or God created the big bang, right? Either way, the universe is created. You're here after all.
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Thanatos10
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No it wasn’t created for that implies a creator. We don’t know what was before the big bang
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
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Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
What do you mean by "why"? How can there be a meaning to existence unless there is a creator who created existence with meaning?
You can't say that the universe was created by chance - and yet created for a purpose.
Why does there have to be one (a meaning to existence) for you? Just enjoy.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Thanatos10 said: No it wasn’t created for that implies a creator. We don’t know what was before the big bang
So what are you saying? How is it that the universe come to exist?
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
shroomening said:
Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
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Thanatos10 said: Excerpt you really aren’t making a case. The common argument of existence being meaningless without god isn’t really true. People make meaning all the time so it’s not meaningless. There so such thing as “Satan like” either, you need to stop using the Bible for evidence.
I'll quote this for my answer to some of that as well.
But isn't existence meaningless if you ignore your lifetime, if existence was just created by chance? After all, if it was only created by chance - then there can be no meaning behind creation.
Why? Seems like more self imposed idealism from the way you were taught. Why can't things just be and be OK? Why the need for some answer? Why do I keep asking why?
What do you mean by "why"? How can there be a meaning to existence unless there is a creator who created existence with meaning?
You can't say that the universe was created by chance - and yet created for a purpose.
Why does there have to be one (a meaning to existence) for you? Just enjoy.
Bro, I really enjoy. But when you have been close to dying, you begin to question what the meaning of existence is. Then after that the question remains there. So you get curious. But it does not affect my way of enjoying life. I enjoy it. Love is life.
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Thanatos10
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Who says there is a meaning to it? The meaning made is by humans.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Who says there is a meaning to it? The meaning made is by humans.
If let's say a universal consciousness or intelligence that we ourselves have the spark of in our consciousness created us, and creates the universe as a matrix mathematical code - then it is obvious that it has a purpose/meaning.
But if the universe just came to be by chance, then nothing is behind the creation - and then there is no agenda in creating the universe - and so no meaning.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,562
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I think you can boil things down to two different arguments and get the same baseless conclusion from either.
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of a higher being. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of a higher being.
Both arguments are invalid in the "evidence" of a higher being, they don't prove or hint at a higher being in and of themselves, because the counter arguments can be made that:
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of random chance. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of random chance.
Likewise a faulty conclusion based on the premise. Both could be wrong, but both assertions are correct, it's both simple and complex depending on your frame of reference. Those assertions do not say anything about the creation of the Universe however.
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shroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26600159 - 04/14/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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PatrickKn said: I think you can boil things down to two different arguments and get the same baseless conclusion from either.
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of a higher being. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of a higher being.
Both arguments are invalid in the "evidence" of a higher being, they don't prove or hint at a higher being in and of themselves, because the counter arguments can be made that:
1. The Universe is infinitely complex, and must therefore be the product of random chance. 2. The Universe is intrinsically simple, and must therefore be the product of random chance.
Likewise a faulty conclusion based on the premise. Both could be wrong, but both assertions are correct, it's both simple and complex depending on your frame of reference. Those assertions do not say anything about the creation of the Universe however.
Guess we end up as Agnostics then.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,562
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Well not quite, because knowing that you cannot prove something, and believing in something are two different things.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
shroomening said:
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Thanatos10 said: Who says there is a meaning to it? The meaning made is by humans.
If let's say a universal consciousness or intelligence that we ourselves have the spark of in our consciousness created us, and creates the universe as a matrix mathematical code - then it is obvious that it has a purpose/meaning.
But if the universe just came to be by chance, then nothing is behind the creation - and then there is no agenda in creating the universe - and so no meaning.
Your first claim is false in that it implies purpose. All it implies is creation/creator, not purpose.
Either way I see no reason to believe in a creator at all, and to be honest it hasn't been a relevant point in my day to day life.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
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Re: Whats your opinion? [Re: PatrickKn]
#26600176 - 04/14/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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...and therein lies the answer.
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