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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26584752 - 04/07/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Big vitamin c"
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RebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home



Registered: 07/15/11
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26584776 - 04/07/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, nurses and doctors can pick and choose which advice to take from these posts, not Mr. Everybody.
Tons of controlled clinical trials are being conducted during this pandemic. I don't see how it's unethical. Doctors can still prescribe the medication before the trials are over... It's not problematic to have actual reliable date alongside anecdotal data from hospitals during the pandemic.
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



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<-- Clicky Clicky
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morrowasted
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A controlled trial requires a control group. If you have reason to believe that a medical intervention will actually help, it is unethical to intentionally avoid giving to a group of people that you could possibly give it to.
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RebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home



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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
#26584871 - 04/07/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think we both agree. I'm just saying reasons must be compelling and a pandemic shouldn't be an excuse to try everything and anything.
For example, lots of anecdotal reports indicated hydroxychloroquine as being efficient while trials + anecdotal reports indicate major side-effects outweighing the speculated benefits.
I'm just saying we have to be extremely cautious when people are enthusiastic about a new unproven solution.
edit : especially if evidence suggests dangers outweigh the risks associated with untreated COVID19. Otherwise, I have to agree with you completely.
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RebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home



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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
#26584894 - 04/07/20 07:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: A controlled trial requires a control group. If you have reason to believe that a medical intervention will actually help, it is unethical to intentionally avoid giving to a group of people that you could possibly give it to.
Also, we don't need control groups to be hospitalized COVID19 patients. They can be made of asymptomatics and people that do not need hospitalization.
We could get a lot of information from a controlled study such as this.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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They have no idea if it’s working or not.
Clinical trials with controls are unethical only after a drug has proven efficacy. It’s been months and nobody has published a single paper that shows any significant benefit. That tells me it’s not really doing anything.
I just saw a report somewhere that a French trial was ended because too many patients developed cardiac issues.
Frankly I don’t think any of the hyped treatments are doing much of anything except maybe some of these MAB drugs
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (04/07/20 08:25 PM)
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RebeccaBlack
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: koods]
#26584984 - 04/07/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I read the same too.
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morrowasted
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https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2#disqus_thread
But for TTCR, the body temperature recovery time and the cough remission time were significantly shortened in the HCQ treatment group. Besides, a larger proportion of patients with improved pneumonia in the HCQ treatment group (80.6%, 25 of 32) compared with the control group (54.8%, 17 of 32).
I'm also inclined to believe my colleagues. If they say they noticed continual deterioration until a patient received this drug and or vitamin c, and then the patient made a recovery, I'm all ears. I am not running around giving blanket endorsements to this drug I just think some people are participating in confirmation bias. They dont like that the president touted it, so they stay hyper focused on info that "proves him wrong". The data really haven't come through yet, but the anecdotes are rolling in. You can listen to them with a grain of salt or ignore them, up to you
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morrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] 2
#26584998 - 04/07/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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In any case I am more excited about the possibility that simple iv C might be a solution for many patients
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] 2
#26585009 - 04/07/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: In any case I am more excited about the possibility that simple iv C might be a solution for many patients
I'm worried that once word gets out, orange juice will be even more difficult to come by than it already has become QQ
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morrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Tantrika] 4
#26585016 - 04/07/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
I'm worried that once word gets out, orange juice will be even more difficult to come by than it already has become QQ
only suckers source vitamin C from oranges. peppers are where it's at
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] 5
#26585024 - 04/07/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
I'm worried that once word gets out, orange juice will be even more difficult to come by than it already has become QQ
only suckers source vitamin C from oranges. peppers are where it's at
good luck getting that message across to people who panic stockpiled toilet paper for a respiratory virus
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RebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home



Registered: 07/15/11
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
#26585025 - 04/07/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2#disqus_thread
But for TTCR, the body temperature recovery time and the cough remission time were significantly shortened in the HCQ treatment group. Besides, a larger proportion of patients with improved pneumonia in the HCQ treatment group (80.6%, 25 of 32) compared with the control group (54.8%, 17 of 32).
I'm also inclined to believe my colleagues. If they say they noticed continual deterioration until a patient received this drug and or vitamin c, and then the patient made a recovery, I'm all ears. I am not running around giving blanket endorsements to this drug I just think some people are participating in confirmation bias. They dont like that the president touted it, so they stay hyper focused on info that "proves him wrong". The data really haven't come through yet, but the anecdotes are rolling in. You can listen to them with a grain of salt or ignore them, up to you
I guess it'll become clearer in the days to come.
Is it known yet if different quasi-species of coronavirus are associated with stronger or milder symptoms?
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morrowasted
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Re: Viral Outbreak in China - COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 aka Wuhan Coronavirus 2020 [Re: RebeccaBlack]
#26585033 - 04/07/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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i really wish hipaa wasnt a thing right now
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Quote:
Daijo said:
I guess it'll become clearer in the days to come.
Is it known yet if different quasi-species of coronavirus are associated with stronger or milder symptoms?
The only article I read said that all the ones they had found so far seemed to be functionally the same and equally as bad
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koods
Ribbit



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The US saw a huge jump in deaths today. I thought we might be settling around 1100 deaths a day but we had almost 2000 today. Also 400,000 cases.
I get the impression nearly every hospitalized patient is given hydroxychloroquine already.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,728
Loc: Texas
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: koods] 3
#26585059 - 04/07/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The US saw a huge jump in deaths today. I thought we might be settling around 1100 deaths a day but we had almost 2000 today. Also 400,000 cases.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,728
Loc: Texas
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Niffla] 3
#26585061 - 04/07/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ugh though seriously, 2 thousand deaths today?
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: koods]
#26585065 - 04/07/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The US saw a huge jump in deaths today. I thought we might be settling around 1100 deaths a day but we had almost 2000 today. Also 400,000 cases.
I get the impression nearly every hospitalized patient is given hydroxychloroquine already.
As do I. The issue seems to be this: 80% of patients who are admitted to the hospital with COVID already shows lab signs of significant red blood cell damage.
I'm wondering if they could chelate the iron with something like deferoxamine and give a few units of packed red blood cells along with the antivirals/chloroquine/etc.
In essence the vitamin C is preventing the free iron from damaging the cells but why not just strip the iron out of the body? the chelators will also strip vitamin C though apparently 
medicine is complicated
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