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Offlinesaved7
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about Jesus
    #26584584 - 04/07/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I wanted to start a discussion about this person called Jesus, as recorded in the Bible... what he is said to have said and done, who he is...  how his story is echoed endlessly throughout the Old Testament scriptures, that came centuries and millenia before him... in both clear and subtle allusions, and types, and figures.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ.  I study him in the word, daily.  The whole Bible is a living testament to his nature.  I feel like I have enough to say about him that it might draw a few people's interest if they read it.

My testimony is elsewhere on here.  I mocked Christianity for most of my life before surrendering to the truth of Jesus.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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OfflineMpSeph
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7] * 2
    #26584616 - 04/07/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Dude, I'm A Christian Myself. One Thing I've Learned Is That You Cannot "Preach" To Someone About Christ. Be & Set An Example & They Will Catch On.

People Are Going To Have Different Religions & Beliefs.

You Don't Convert Someone To Christianity By Preaching To Them & Giving Them "The Facts", That Will Only Turn Them Away.

Just Set An Example & Do Good Things. When They See You Do Those Good Things, It Will Make Them Want To Do Something Good As Well.


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Tips For A Beginner Mushroom Hunter

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27146775


One Who Hunts Mushrooms Is A Mushroom Hunter. One Who Eats Them Without Knowing What They Are, Is A Dumb Mushroom Hunter. - Seph


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26584676 - 04/07/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)



There comes a redeemer
and he slowly too fades away
There follows a wagon behind him
that's loaded with clay
and the seeds that were silent
all burst into bloom and decay


Edited by AroundtheSon (04/07/20 08:39 PM)


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26584682 - 04/07/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
how his story is echoed endlessly throughout the Old Testament scriptures, that came centuries and millenia before him... in both clear and subtle allusions, and types, and figures.





This always tripped me out:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine: and he was [is] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, 'Blessed be Abram to the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth, And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand'. And he gave him tithe from all.

— Genesis 14:18–20

Breaking the bread and drinking the wine back in the old skool. Interesting...


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Offlineqman
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Re: about Jesus [Re: MpSeph]
    #26584708 - 04/07/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

People will "catch on" if there's evidence to the claims. Baseless claims isn't very appealing to people like myself. There's thousands of different religious organizations all with a different set of beliefs without evidence. Most of those believers don't even realize they don't have any methodology to test the validity of their beliefs. I reject all of their claims because they all lack the evidence. Most people also reject all of those claims expect the religion they were born into. 

Anyone can "good things", it doesn't take believing in things without evidence. Non-believers do "good things" all the time. Why not just do "good things" for that sake of helping other people without involving religious faith?


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OfflineMpSeph
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Re: about Jesus [Re: qman]
    #26584768 - 04/07/20 07:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Before I Wrote The Last Post, I Knew There Would Be Someone To Comment & Say Something Similar To This; "Anybody Can Do Good Things, You Don't Have To Be Religious To Do Good Things."

However, I Never Said You Did. Anyone Can Do Something Good.

I Think You Might Have Some Hate Towards Religion, Otherwise Why Would You Click This Thread & Say "Baseless Claims" Over & Over Again? You Could've Just Not Even Clicked.

To The OP ~ This Is Exactly Why Our Religion Should Be Kept In Our Heart & Mind & Not On The Internet.


--------------------
Tips For A Beginner Mushroom Hunter

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27146775


One Who Hunts Mushrooms Is A Mushroom Hunter. One Who Eats Them Without Knowing What They Are, Is A Dumb Mushroom Hunter. - Seph


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Offlineshroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26586193 - 04/08/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Do you believe that he could do miracles through his faith / thoughts? The same is said of Moses and Muhammad. Do you believe they could do it? Like turning water into wine, or walking on water?


Edited by shroomening (04/08/20 11:41 AM)


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26586313 - 04/08/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So let me ask you this: do you believe all the miracles actually happened at the time? How do you know there were actually texts written way before Jesus was born? So how do you know there actually was a prophecy that came true rather than it being fabricated afterwards?


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26586336 - 04/08/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The teachings of Jesus are so otherworldly that society demanded an alternative which was furnished to them by the apostle Paul


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Hartford]
    #26586403 - 04/08/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The stories of miracles weren’t the Crux of his message and teaching.  They were added for the allure to those with a simplistic understanding of the nature of things, like a tool to both ornament the man himself, and to draw in those naive enough to not know better - in the hopes that by sticking around long enough, their understanding would develop and in turn allow for realizing the esoteric truth of his life.
Such phenomena is added to most all major religious figures for the same purpose throughout history.  It can be understood as skillful means
The message, teaching, and practices as exemplified by the surviving recorded history and story of Jesus Christ are universal.  No conditional need to be Christian in the sense of becoming an adherent to an established orthodoxy or sect, but that path is available and keeps the flame lit so to speak, and serves as a beacon in some sense, and is often the obvious starting point for most who want to live christlike.The same applies to followers of the Buddha and his doctrine and discipline. Etc.  nothing inherently wrong with either position - as in wheather one practices and lives the truth alone, or with a community.  Both have pros and cons and differences in those who choose either one is likely due to differing personalities. :heart:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlineqman
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Re: about Jesus [Re: MpSeph]
    #26586434 - 04/08/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MpSeph said:
Before I Wrote The Last Post, I Knew There Would Be Someone To Comment & Say Something Similar To This; "Anybody Can Do Good Things, You Don't Have To Be Religious To Do Good Things."

However, I Never Said You Did. Anyone Can Do Something Good.

I Think You Might Have Some Hate Towards Religion, Otherwise Why Would You Click This Thread & Say "Baseless Claims" Over & Over Again? You Could've Just Not Even Clicked.

To The OP ~ This Is Exactly Why Our Religion Should Be Kept In Our Heart & Mind & Not On The Internet.




No, I don't "hate" the thousands of different religions that exist today. It's all the same to the skeptical person, claims without evidence that require faith to be a follower.

There's plenty of good and bad that go along with religious beliefs, I'm not going to generalize and suggest it's "bad" or "good" for humanity.

Again, being skeptical of any claim isn't implying hate. It's better not to be so defensive of one's ideology, it tends to cloud judgment and rational thought.


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OfflineConnection
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Re: about Jesus [Re: qman]
    #26586558 - 04/08/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah skepticism isn’t hate saved7 even said he questioned the religious believes of Christianity at first! So saying someone is hateful for adding their own opinions on a subject of the bible is just pure hateful. You are not the Lord so don’t judge others that judge forgive as Jesus Christ said don’t be hateful to the non believers and good intent they have religion is religion God is Godliness Jesus Christ was a savior although he did not need to die on a cross Moses did not need to give the 10 commandments Mother Mary did not need to birth Jesus Christ in the end he died for us all. So move along religious or not Love Thy God Love Thy Christ Love Everyone the Message is Pure Love God is love and so are you so are you...


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Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...


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Offlinesaved7
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Re: about Jesus [Re: shroomening]
    #26586798 - 04/08/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shroomening said:
Do you believe that he could do miracles through his faith / thoughts




The wind and the sea obeyed Jesus' command.  The forces of nature bowed before this man just as they would the Creator himself. 
I believe it.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26586810 - 04/08/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The real question to ask yourself is why do you believe it.  I take the position of schrodz cat in instances of ignorance as opposed to being for or against or undecided -  in doing so it saves me the opportunity to not be blinded by a limiting stance on a stance, thereby granting me freedom from potentially deluded views, in turn that allows release from one sidedness and supports freedom of view to reflect the actual nature of things as best as can be done at the moment.

Examining the logic and reasoning of the thought processes that occur after asking oneself that question in regards to one belief in the aforementioned topic is how discernment can be sharpened, and without discernment, morality is hazy, and wisdom just an idea.



--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 04:52 PM)


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Offlineshroomening

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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26586821 - 04/08/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Or the gospel of Jesus Christ is true, but no one has been able to do what he did. Maybe our consciousness can control matter. Read some research that atoms (if they were atoms, don't really remember) were conscious. In the research they did, they observed the atom, and then it stood still. But moved when it was not observed. If any man would succeed in doing miracles with his faith, then that person can be classified as the second coming of Christ. Then the new Jesus Christ have risen and the scriptures were true. If it doesn't happen, then maybe the scriptures were just written as a fairy tale to express knowledge of man and man's spirit and behavior. Maybe they tripped on mushrooms and wrote the story.

I don't think it was written to control people doh. There is too much truth and wisdom in the words. And a lot of justice. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Maybe it was simply good people who fought for the good, against all evil and all the evil rulers who somehow enslaved people through governments (or what to call it back in the time). I mean, there have always been evil people with strong egos who have done everything for their own gain.You are naive if you do not think that people would be so evil for their own gain, neither today nor in the past (when it was more or less lawless in "society"). You could kill, rape and steal and get away with it without any problem. Or get an army with people and take over villages or cities, etc. It was easy, just attack in secret and kill everyone.

Surely there must have been good people who have been strong in love / God and written down things for the people of love, who in the end dreamt of winning the fight against evil and injustice in the world.

However, it seems only the Christian messiah (christ) and the Islamic messiah (mahdi) are to come with miracle powers. But the Messiah of the Jews (son of David) seems to be a conquering political king. I don't read anything about him having miracle powers. Perhaps that is why the Jews did not accept Jesus as the messiah. And still today do not (except for Judeo-Christians).

The conquering political king part doesn't seem so special, I could do that work myself. A fair, strong and loving politician is not difficult to mantle the role of, with the help of God / love spirit and God / love doctrine.

Creating paradise on earth I think is possible. But the miracle stuff is a question mark.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: shroomening]
    #26586847 - 04/08/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Your predicating your belief on the assumption that an atom is conscious, and your assuming that because you misunderstood the experiment.  The double slit experiment is not in support of that conclusion at all.  More likely, my assumption that you haven’t studied the actual double slot experiment, but rather heard about it from someone’s commentary on it,  the commentary likely being conjecture.

My real point out of all that is,  that upon examining your belief, if you had truly known your own ignorance, you would have known that you did not know as much as you claim.    But by deceiving oneself you claim to know that which you do not, and further, you predicate your believe upon that false premise.

Try again,  I have nothing but love for Christ,  but you still have to do better than that.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 05:00 PM)


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Offlineyeah
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Re: about Jesus [Re: shroomening]
    #26586848 - 04/08/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I myself will be adorned with Black plate armor and white trim that is decorated with upside crucifixes and my middle name is the first martyr of Christianity but to to each their own if my God Shri Ganesha wills thus :highdog:


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Offlinesaved7
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Re: about Jesus [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26586853 - 04/08/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

AroundtheSon said:
Quote:

saved7 said:
how his story is echoed endlessly throughout the Old Testament scriptures, that came centuries and millenia before him... in both clear and subtle allusions, and types, and figures.





This always tripped me out:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine: and he was [is] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, 'Blessed be Abram to the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth, And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand'. And he gave him tithe from all.

— Genesis 14:18–20

Breaking the bread and drinking the wine back in the old skool. Interesting...




Yea, the image of Jesus is refracted through every chapter of the Old Testament.  "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" ...  Jesus even makes this claim directly..

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he [Jesus] expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
- Luke 24:27

The story of Israel itself is a macrocosm of Jesus' life... How Jesus crosses over the Jordan river (a picture of Israel passing through the Red Sea) and is then Jesus is immediately brought into the wilderness for 40 days.  (a clear reference to Israel's 40 years in the wilderness)...



I was just thinking about the story of Joseph (pre-Exodus)... how he is annointed with a robe by his father, and then thrown into a pit by his brothers, and then is brought up out of the pit to eventually sit at the right hand of power of the Pharoah in kingdom of Egypt.

It's one of the more obvious pictures of Jesus, annointed by the father at baptism, and then thrown into the grave (murdered) by his Jewish brethren (betrayed by his own disciple), and then risen out of the pit in resurrection, to rule over all the kingdoms of the world.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26586871 - 04/08/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Jospeh and Jesus similarities is parallelism.  Likely left in the current bible by the monks who sutured it into a book of stories for partly that reason ,  and it remained there by the rule of the Councils who decreed what should go and what should remain in what is in the Bible today.

Is he ruling over , poetically speaking, Buddhist kingdoms, or Muslim kingdoms?  Not really, atleast not as a single man born some odd 2000 years ago, atleast I don’t think I can understand how that could be considering the man is gone but a religion was constructed around his life’s teachings and stories related or seemingly related to it as prophetic and mythicaly abrhamic.

Does that take away anything from the actual teachings he gave? No.  But the point is to reflect on the things as they actually are, or as close as we can.

However in another sense, many Buddhists see Christ as one having attained enlightenment, and obviously the Quran speaks of him as prophet most high (besides Mohammed )(but that’s their stick).

So in another way, it doesn’t matter the way in which it’s often thought about and understood by a majority.  To an extent.  Ok I done here, much love and have a good night.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 05:11 PM)


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Offlineshroomening

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Re: about Jesus [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26586878 - 04/08/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Your predicating your belief on the assumption that an atom is conscious, and your assuming that because you misunderstood the experiment.  The double slit experiment is not in support of that conclusion at all.  More likely, my assumption that you haven’t studied the actual double slot experiment, but rather heard about it from someone’s commentary on it,  the commentary likely being conjecture.

My real point out of all that is,  that upon examining your belief, if you had truly known your own ignorance, you would have known that you did not know as much as you claim.    But by deceiving oneself you claim to know that which you do not, and further, you predicate your believe upon that false premise.

Try again,  I have nothing but love for Christ,  but you still have to do better than that.




I'm not saying I believe in anything, I just speculate on both sides. But I thought I read that they think atoms were conscious, but that was just an experiment I read a little about. Another scientist (don't remember his name) said that the entire universe is coded just like the movie matrix lol, with math. Sounds fitting to God who then created it. And that out in the universe where there is no matter - there is only pure consciousness. And, as far as I know, it is not proven that it is not so?

Anyways, it is interesting to hear opinions from both people who believe, and people who do not believe. So keep on arguing, my brothr. "For under the heavens there is but one family" - bruce lee


Edited by shroomening (04/08/20 05:12 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: shroomening]
    #26586880 - 04/08/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Amen :manofapproval:

We argue or debate for the sake of both sides, to strengthen each other, even if one can’t tell at the moment, it’s that what motivates my own interactions here. 


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/08/20 05:12 PM)


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Offlineshroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: about Jesus [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26586895 - 04/08/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Amen :manofapproval:

We argue or debate for the sake of both sides, to strengthen each other, even if one can’t tell at the moment, it’s that what motivates my own interactions here. 




Exactly brother, you finished it well. Good night!


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Offlinesaved7
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Re: about Jesus [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26586990 - 04/08/20 06:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Jospeh and Jesus similarities is parallelism.  Likely left in the current bible by the monks who sutured it into a book of stories for partly that reason ,  and it remained there by the rule of the Councils who decreed what should go and what should remain in what is in the Bible today.




It's not just with similar stories.  The Bible has a more 'fractal' nature than that.  The tabernacle design, for example, is not a story but a piece of architecture, a building plan, which is itself an image of Israel's migratory trek from Egypt, to the Wilderness, to Canaan.  (The outer court of the Tabernacle is Egypt, containing the altar of sacrifice, the blood of the lamb on the Jewish slaves' doorposts... passing through the first tent veil in the Tabernacle represents passing through the Red Sea (additionally represented by the Laver, a basin for washing your hands, baptism in water) and entering a mediating 'wilderness' arena... a sanctuary called the 'Holy Place'.  (This room of the tabernacle contains the lampstand, the incense altar, and the altar of bread, alluding to the pillar of smoke and fire, and manna from heaven given in the Wilderness)  and finally passing through the 2nd veil in the tabernacle leading to the 'Most Holy Place', is a picture of Israel entering crossing over the Jordan river and entering Canaan or the Promised Land containing the very presence of God, located upon the Ark of the Covenant within this inner chamber.)  ...



Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Is he ruling over , poetically speaking, Buddhist kingdoms, or Muslim kingdoms?  Not really, atleast not as a single man born some odd 2000 years ago, atleast I don’t think I can understand how that could be considering the man is gone but a religion was constructed around his life’s teachings and stories related or seemingly related to it as prophetic and mythicaly abrhamic.

Does that take away anything from the actual teachings he gave? No.  But the point is to reflect on the things as they actually are, or as close as we can.

However in another sense, many Buddhists see Christ as one having attained enlightenment, and obviously the Quran speaks of him as prophet most high (besides Mohammed )(but that’s their stick).

So in another way, it doesn’t matter the way in which it’s often thought about and understood by a majority.  To an extent.  Ok I done here, much love and have a good night.




Who else came in such authority as the man Jesus, called the Christ?

Human history itself seems to crowd around his figure.  The whole world stands in the shadow of the cross... this Jewish commoner who was mocked and spit on and killed like a slave.  Why does history seem to bow towards this man?

Who claimed the things he did with such seeming authority?  Who else has such amazing prophecy behind him?  Jesus is an enigma above all others.

Jesus is a person, who... the more you consider him, and study him, the more you are stunned by the concealed evidence of him. 

I think the truth has a way of repelling those disinterested in it, while, on the other hand, inviting the believer into its mystery.  I say that, because it seems to be the way Jesus acted.  His very character had this quality, according to the Bible.  Think of how Jesus comes in the appearance of a comman man, no more divine than the next person.  He presents himself as a living mystery.  Easily dismissed by the hard of heart, yet in reality, for those with ears to hear, and eyes to see... He reveals himself as the doorway to the kingdom of heaven.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26587006 - 04/08/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Nice.  It is, one of if not the most, hyperlinked books of all time.  And yeah the esoteric truth of it is exalted; however, I find it exponentially more fruitful in the light of esoteric Buddhism,  making the two complementary and synergistic. that’s more a preference than a condition to understanding.  I don’t deny what your getting it in any way.  Christ is exemplary and as immaculate as a human being can get, as best I can know with just the biblical account plus some historical accounts and my own experiental truth.  But what’s published and recorded is never a full accounting of anyone life.  Regardless,  god is good.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26588374 - 04/09/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Jospeh and Jesus similarities is parallelism.  Likely left in the current bible by the monks who sutured it into a book of stories for partly that reason ,  and it remained there by the rule of the Councils who decreed what should go and what should remain in what is in the Bible today.




It's not just with similar stories.  The Bible has a more 'fractal' nature than that.  The tabernacle design, for example, is not a story but a piece of architecture, a building plan, which is itself an image of Israel's migratory trek from Egypt, to the Wilderness, to Canaan.  (The outer court of the Tabernacle is Egypt, containing the altar of sacrifice, the blood of the lamb on the Jewish slaves' doorposts... passing through the first tent veil in the Tabernacle represents passing through the Red Sea (additionally represented by the Laver, a basin for washing your hands, baptism in water) and entering a mediating 'wilderness' arena... a sanctuary called the 'Holy Place'.  (This room of the tabernacle contains the lampstand, the incense altar, and the altar of bread, alluding to the pillar of smoke and fire, and manna from heaven given in the Wilderness)  and finally passing through the 2nd veil in the tabernacle leading to the 'Most Holy Place', is a picture of Israel entering crossing over the Jordan river and entering Canaan or the Promised Land containing the very presence of God, located upon the Ark of the Covenant within this inner chamber.)  ...



Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Is he ruling over , poetically speaking, Buddhist kingdoms, or Muslim kingdoms?  Not really, atleast not as a single man born some odd 2000 years ago, atleast I don’t think I can understand how that could be considering the man is gone but a religion was constructed around his life’s teachings and stories related or seemingly related to it as prophetic and mythicaly abrhamic.

Does that take away anything from the actual teachings he gave? No.  But the point is to reflect on the things as they actually are, or as close as we can.

However in another sense, many Buddhists see Christ as one having attained enlightenment, and obviously the Quran speaks of him as prophet most high (besides Mohammed )(but that’s their stick).

So in another way, it doesn’t matter the way in which it’s often thought about and understood by a majority.  To an extent.  Ok I done here, much love and have a good night.




Who else came in such authority as the man Jesus, called the Christ?

Human history itself seems to crowd around his figure.  The whole world stands in the shadow of the cross... this Jewish commoner who was mocked and spit on and killed like a slave.  Why does history seem to bow towards this man?

Who claimed the things he did with such seeming authority?  Who else has such amazing prophecy behind him?  Jesus is an enigma above all others.

Jesus is a person, who... the more you consider him, and study him, the more you are stunned by the concealed evidence of him. 

I think the truth has a way of repelling those disinterested in it, while, on the other hand, inviting the believer into its mystery.  I say that, because it seems to be the way Jesus acted.  His very character had this quality, according to the Bible.  Think of how Jesus comes in the appearance of a comman man, no more divine than the next person.  He presents himself as a living mystery.  Easily dismissed by the hard of heart, yet in reality, for those with ears to hear, and eyes to see... He reveals himself as the doorway to the kingdom of heaven.




It’s only because Christianity dominated the world for centuries and people weren’t allowed to question it. The Bible is far from the truth, it’s a book of stories written by humans.

Also if you are referring to the character of Jesus he is FAR from perfect when you actually read the Bible. He just seems like some guy, and possibly a cult leader when you look at everything he did or said. He loved all, as long as they followed him. He’s not a living mystery, that’s what the church wants people to believe. He’s just a man, assuming he existed.

“Jesus was no perfect man, no meek or wise messiah: in fact his philosophies were and are largely immoral, often violent, as well as shallow and irrational. There have been many proposed sons of god, and this Jesus person is no more valid or profound than his priestly precursors. In fact, his contemporary Apollonius was unquestionably the superior logician and philosopher. …Christianity has caused more terror and torture and murder than any similar phenomenon.”

I mean the guy essentially said that people who didn’t kneel before him should be brought forward and slain.


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Offlineqman
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26588481 - 04/09/20 10:05 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Jospeh and Jesus similarities is parallelism.  Likely left in the current bible by the monks who sutured it into a book of stories for partly that reason ,  and it remained there by the rule of the Councils who decreed what should go and what should remain in what is in the Bible today.




It's not just with similar stories.  The Bible has a more 'fractal' nature than that.  The tabernacle design, for example, is not a story but a piece of architecture, a building plan, which is itself an image of Israel's migratory trek from Egypt, to the Wilderness, to Canaan.  (The outer court of the Tabernacle is Egypt, containing the altar of sacrifice, the blood of the lamb on the Jewish slaves' doorposts... passing through the first tent veil in the Tabernacle represents passing through the Red Sea (additionally represented by the Laver, a basin for washing your hands, baptism in water) and entering a mediating 'wilderness' arena... a sanctuary called the 'Holy Place'.  (This room of the tabernacle contains the lampstand, the incense altar, and the altar of bread, alluding to the pillar of smoke and fire, and manna from heaven given in the Wilderness)  and finally passing through the 2nd veil in the tabernacle leading to the 'Most Holy Place', is a picture of Israel entering crossing over the Jordan river and entering Canaan or the Promised Land containing the very presence of God, located upon the Ark of the Covenant within this inner chamber.)  ...



Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Is he ruling over , poetically speaking, Buddhist kingdoms, or Muslim kingdoms?  Not really, atleast not as a single man born some odd 2000 years ago, atleast I don’t think I can understand how that could be considering the man is gone but a religion was constructed around his life’s teachings and stories related or seemingly related to it as prophetic and mythicaly abrhamic.

Does that take away anything from the actual teachings he gave? No.  But the point is to reflect on the things as they actually are, or as close as we can.

However in another sense, many Buddhists see Christ as one having attained enlightenment, and obviously the Quran speaks of him as prophet most high (besides Mohammed )(but that’s their stick).

So in another way, it doesn’t matter the way in which it’s often thought about and understood by a majority.  To an extent.  Ok I done here, much love and have a good night.




Who else came in such authority as the man Jesus, called the Christ?

Human history itself seems to crowd around his figure.  The whole world stands in the shadow of the cross... this Jewish commoner who was mocked and spit on and killed like a slave.  Why does history seem to bow towards this man?

Who claimed the things he did with such seeming authority?  Who else has such amazing prophecy behind him?  Jesus is an enigma above all others.

Jesus is a person, who... the more you consider him, and study him, the more you are stunned by the concealed evidence of him. 

I think the truth has a way of repelling those disinterested in it, while, on the other hand, inviting the believer into its mystery.  I say that, because it seems to be the way Jesus acted.  His very character had this quality, according to the Bible.  Think of how Jesus comes in the appearance of a comman man, no more divine than the next person.  He presents himself as a living mystery.  Easily dismissed by the hard of heart, yet in reality, for those with ears to hear, and eyes to see... He reveals himself as the doorway to the kingdom of heaven.




"Human history itself seems to crowd around his figure...Why does history seem to bow towards this man?"

Why do you constantly use this fallacious line of reasoning?  Are you unaware of the intellectual dishonesty or do you do it on purpose?

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Popularity


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Offlinesaved7
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26589006 - 04/09/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It’s only because Christianity dominated the world for centuries and people weren’t allowed to question it.




But history didn't first begin in the middle ages did it?

This was a relatively unknown man of no status, who was mocked, spit on, and hung on a cross to die like a common slave.  Do you think it's strange that belief in this person came to dominate the world at all?


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26589135 - 04/09/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It’s only because Christianity dominated the world for centuries and people weren’t allowed to question it.




But history didn't first begin in the middle ages did it?

This was a relatively unknown man of no status, who was mocked, spit on, and hung on a cross to die like a common slave.  Do you think it's strange that belief in this person came to dominate the world at all?




History didn't begin there though, but the story about him isn't entirely what people the world over know. Like I said he wasn't a perfect human being, he was flawed like the rest of us. Also plenty of beliefs dominate and fade, I mean people think a man in a lion cloth has the truth of the universe.

I'm not impressed that the religion dominated the world I would be impressed by humans who didn't worship something or someone. There were better man than Christ in this world,you just don't hear about them.


--------------------
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Offlinesaved7
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26590322 - 04/10/20 06:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It’s only because Christianity dominated the world for centuries and people weren’t allowed to question it.




But history didn't first begin in the middle ages did it?

This was a relatively unknown man of no status, who was mocked, spit on, and hung on a cross to die like a common slave.  Do you think it's strange that belief in this person came to dominate the world at all?




History didn't begin there though, but the story about him isn't entirely what people the world over know. Like I said he wasn't a perfect human being, he was flawed like the rest of us. Also plenty of beliefs dominate and fade, I mean people think a man in a lion cloth has the truth of the universe.

I'm not impressed that the religion dominated the world I would be impressed by humans who didn't worship something or someone. There were better man than Christ in this world,you just don't hear about them.




So you do you think it's just some crazy fluke of history that the world came to regard a half-naked Jewish criminal nailed on a wooden cross as Lord over all creation?

Is it also a fluke that the Gospel authors had absolute confidence that this would be the case?  That all the nations would come to regard Jesus as King.

To say nothing of the Old Testament prophecies and foreshadowings that preceded him.  At a certain point, it begins to require more faith to believe it is all a coincidence, than to simply accept the truth:  Jesus is exactly who he said he is.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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Offlineqman
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26590539 - 04/10/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It’s only because Christianity dominated the world for centuries and people weren’t allowed to question it.




But history didn't first begin in the middle ages did it?

This was a relatively unknown man of no status, who was mocked, spit on, and hung on a cross to die like a common slave.  Do you think it's strange that belief in this person came to dominate the world at all?




History didn't begin there though, but the story about him isn't entirely what people the world over know. Like I said he wasn't a perfect human being, he was flawed like the rest of us. Also plenty of beliefs dominate and fade, I mean people think a man in a lion cloth has the truth of the universe.

I'm not impressed that the religion dominated the world I would be impressed by humans who didn't worship something or someone. There were better man than Christ in this world,you just don't hear about them.




So you do you think it's just some crazy fluke of history that the world came to regard a half-naked Jewish criminal nailed on a wooden cross as Lord over all creation?

Is it also a fluke that the Gospel authors had absolute confidence that this would be the case?  That all the nations would come to regard Jesus as King.

To say nothing of the Old Testament prophecies and foreshadowings that preceded him.  At a certain point, it begins to require more faith to believe it is all a coincidence, than to simply accept the truth:  Jesus is exactly who he said he is.




Yeah, humans have the tendency to believe in things in mass and still be wrong. Your reasoning is fallacious in nature, yet you still aren't honest enough to admit it.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26590545 - 04/10/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Ever seen Life of Brian?


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Offlinesaved7
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Re: about Jesus [Re: qman]
    #26590989 - 04/10/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
humans have the tendency to believe in things in mass and still be wrong




Indeed they do.

Man's paradigms have a way of collapsing in on themselves, no matter how self-assured they are in their collective wisdom.

The name above all names, Jesus Christ, the Word of God, will remain forever, until the end of this age and beyond.  What was foretold has come to be, and is still yet to come.  The alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  The Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
- 1 Corinthians 1:20


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26591013 - 04/10/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So let's say there really was a son of God walking on the earth and all in the bible is said about him and about God is true, what's so great about that? Is it the eternal life in heaven part or what's the point?


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26591026 - 04/10/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Christs words ring true, but all the other shenanigans, naw.


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Offlineqman
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26591086 - 04/10/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

qman said:
humans have the tendency to believe in things in mass and still be wrong




Indeed they do.

Man's paradigms have a way of collapsing in on themselves, no matter how self-assured they are in their collective wisdom.

The name above all names, Jesus Christ, the Word of God, will remain forever, until the end of this age and beyond.  What was foretold has come to be, and is still yet to come.  The alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  The Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
- 1 Corinthians 1:20




"will remain forever"

That's simply not true, more likely than not humans will become extinct in the near future, just like 99.9% of the species that have existed on Earth.

Maybe humans will blend into AI and become a new species and survive in other worlds when the earth no longer exists, but at that point ancient myths will be completely dismissed and forgotten by rational processes.


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: shroomening]
    #26591360 - 04/10/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

yes, but perhaps there are relevant teachings for living today.

whichever way your pleasure tends!


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OfflineConnection
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Re: about Jesus [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26591524 - 04/10/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The truth is its all the same exact thing whether you reject the bibles message or agree with it you are still a holy one with a different divine plan! If everybody were religious and believed in the bible the people left out would feel useless and hopeless with existence God picks people to believe or not believe so we affect all human kind no matter who we are even atheists love the idea of a Non God the fact is everyone is obsessed with this idea of God it is the straight goods of existence we all have our own purpose and not fulfilling your purpose or destiny or divine plan establishing divinity in yourself first some people go to guide books instruction manuals well the bible is an instruction manual to God and Jesus it is not the most appealing thing because people hate the ideas of being limited and they love being free let be people be free to be who to who they want and serve the most HIGH by serving the MOST HIGH in the most HIGH way for themselves therefore serving the rest of humanity our brothers and sisters our fathers and mothers some call GOD different things like ALLAH or JESUS or ME and YOU its all the same thing hate is the true plague of this universe it is called to get us to reunionize with eachother that’s what I have to say my friend my friends of Heaven and Earth even i read the Holy bible 12 times Old Testament New Testament i learned my mission was to harmonize with humanity in the most high way and that is to SERVE GOD and ALL OF THE REST OF HUMANITY we were made in his image and he is made in our image human being is GOD GOD looks like a human being in a white robe!! We made it to the most high species in the universe haha!! Yes!! Glory be to all!! Whether you serve religion or not you are still fufilling GOD’s purpose and that is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Human beings the greatest invention of man kind human lovers and haters the servers of the greatest divine will ever!! Love is magic!! Hearts connect!! We are all connected!! With energy and humility💜 we truly do care for one another and that is the greatest love of the universe to carefor ourselves and for eachother LOVE AND LIGHT Religion Spirituality Existence Existenceful are we let it be said again and a-gain shouted in the highest heavens called earth the true paradise!!!!!!!!!!........!!!!....!!!!!.,..!!!!!!! Read the bible or read anything and that is your connection to source how he planned it for you enjoy enjoy enjoy never hate your brothers and sisters and family the human family that our ultimate mother Eve and Father Adam Made for us forever and forever let human beings rise out of war and disgust and onto the higher path of love and light for all and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Connection]
    #26591559 - 04/10/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

...and that's where you're wrong. We will all be subjected to a trial of our own design. Hypocrites will not stand


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Re: about Jesus [Re: Hartford]
    #26591617 - 04/10/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yep.. but christianity is only 2,000 years old tell me are you going to disregard all the millions and millions of years that humanity strived on for a book that is 2,000 years old stating you know the facts and everyone else is wrong that is preschool graduation right there I’m Right Your Wrong We are all Subject because God gave us a different plan for each other the fact is we all hold the truth in our hands my truth might be different from your truth but hating other humans based on a book written 2,000 years ago is just wrong there have been endless holy books that bring people back to God the Fact Is God Created Us All!! Did he not does he favor Christians over Atheists because of belief and not pure knowledge belief is flim flamsy direct experience and knowledge is the only truth it is true some Christians carry Knowledge over Belief Some Carry Belief over knowledge IT DOES NOT EVEN REALLY MATTER!!! WAKE UP!! The end times are now coming hate is leaving the door! Love is finally taking reign ❤️. Life has gotten better each second we’ve been alive second by second live improves time itself is the path of walking forward and leaving illusion you have a truth meter deep inside you it is called your Heart! ❤️ What made you guys the authority over God that is truly sick saying your religion is actually better than GOD’s PLAN if there were a hell true haters would be basking in it hating your own family of our human family is just sick do not let no book do that to you not even a Narcasstic Ass Book!! Let Books Guide You Onto Love There is No Wrong Or Right Just Judgements You can have multiple opinions but hateful opinions are best to keep it to yourself. Everyone involves with Being a Hypocrite you feel one way one moment another way! It is called learning doing the best to grow some of you make me sick and have not actually listened to The true words of Jesus................. JESUS Christ was a savior and here you are calling people hypocrites like you are the authority on The Word Of God Oh Well I Hope You Will Find Your Own Truth Some Day I Wish You Well Brother of Mine Read the Bible or Don’t know you don’t have to be saved because God already saved you before you were born and after your born. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Connection]
    #26593728 - 04/11/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Christ isn’t the flawless man people think he is. His words don’t ring true.

Like I said there were better men than him.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26593742 - 04/11/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)



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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Shenmue]
    #26593870 - 04/11/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Whether you believe or don't believe - most stories have value. As I was saying, whichever way your pleasure tends!


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: about Jesus [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26594173 - 04/11/20 08:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It's obviously not true. Anyone over 30 with half a brain knows that.


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Shenmue]
    #26595502 - 04/12/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The tortoise and the hare, jack and the beanstalk, the fox and the hound - someone told me they aren't true either. Yet, still, I find a nugget of truth. How / why?

I'm not interested in arguing. I keep saying "whichever way your pleasure tends".

Your propensity to "prove" your right says more about your unsettled mind than anything.

Let those who seek rainbows seek rainbows, and those who seek the truth of existence seek the truth of existence? Do you really think you will convince someone with your gift of language or ability to post a Youtube? :shrug:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26595759 - 04/12/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

AroundtheSon said:
Whether you believe or don't believe - most stories have value. As I was saying, whichever way your pleasure tends!



:bigyesnod:


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Invisibleblackdragon999
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Re: about Jesus [Re: saved7]
    #26595930 - 04/12/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
...I mocked Christianity for most of my life before surrendering to the truth of Jesus.




I think the opposite is true for me. Even though I grew up in Jesus, the teachings/faith never stuck with me. The faith is now completely gone. Most of that I attribute to traveling most of my adult life and living in various countries with cultures that in have a very partial/limited concept of Christianity as it exists in the western world. How does one acquire faith?


--------------------








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OfflineRorge
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Re: about Jesus [Re: blackdragon999]
    #26598427 - 04/13/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well I can say wholeheartedly that Jesus (or maybe it was Satan) has helped me tremendously recently but I’m still a Jew. Must. Study. More. Buddhism!


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: Rorge]
    #26598500 - 04/13/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rorge said:
Buddhism!




This. Where a lot of folks end up.
Psalm 46:10
He who has ears


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: about Jesus [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26598747 - 04/13/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Ati Yoga, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Zen, Shingon/Tangmi, Theravada Forest Tradition, Daoism, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, Islam, Judaism, Brahmanism, Jainism, Hinduism, Sikhism,  Worldwide Primal-Indigenous-Aboriginal-Shamanic religions,World Religion, Anthropology, The Sciences, Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology, History, dreaming, psychedelics, higher education-uni/college, family, friends, strangers, monasticism, direct experience, and more... in study, practice, faith, and gnosis have collectively transformed and transcended the understanding of thyself in a way that is beyond what I could have ever possibly imagined.  In doing so my understanding of Jesus has also changed, and that extends to many men and woman that are revered as gods, sacred or divine symbols, or just charismatic and highly gifted teachers.

I highly recommend expanding one’s horizons in respect to ones own religious upbringing, current religion or absence of religion by learning about all the wonders that the world, humanity, and human history- ancient and modern, esoteric and exoteric- has to offer.

Know thyself!


--------------------
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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: about Jesus [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26602572 - 04/15/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

OP disappeared from the thread :crankey:


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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: about Jesus [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26604891 - 04/16/20 05:36 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

He been raptured.


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OfflineLittleBoard
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Re: about Jesus [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #26613078 - 04/19/20 02:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

AroundtheSon said:


This always tripped me out:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine: and he was [is] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, 'Blessed be Abram to the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth, And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand'. And he gave him tithe from all.

— Genesis 14:18–20

Breaking the bread and drinking the wine back in the old skool. Interesting...



Clearly Melchizedek must be some back to the future version of Jesus Christ and there is NO other explanation. :rolleyes:
I think the whole bible and everything in it is made up by the likes of you to gain some sort of political power, to make others believe the same nonsense to and have a group identity. Social cohesion is the only reason religious belief exists.


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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: about Jesus [Re: LittleBoard]
    #26613101 - 04/19/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well. I guess that settles it then. Thanks.


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: about Jesus [Re: LittleBoard]
    #26613497 - 04/19/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Please do tell me the likes of me?


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