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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: what is violence [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26579439 - 04/05/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

for me, just looking in the mirror feels like violence.

my mirror has a trigger.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: what is violence [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26579584 - 04/05/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I appreciate the responses but I do have a problem with the recurring assertion that their is emotional violence and mental violence.  I can’t see your emotion or your thought, I only see the actions you take and the effects they have.  There is probably a good reason why we only criminalize those who actually murder as opposed to those who only feel like murdering or think about murdering.

I agree that certain emotional responses and thoughts are questionable to say the least but I’m not sure we can deal with that on a social level until we define what violence is in action.  Just my two cents.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: what is violence [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26579627 - 04/05/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

if people first can't control violence towards themselves, then how can they be expected to control violence towards others? 

violent thoughts towards oneself can certainly provoke negative physiological reactions that manifest in a very real manner.

people tend to view their environments in terms of their own behavioral potential.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: what is violence [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26579670 - 04/05/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Don’t get me wrong, ones self is the first thing to understand and explore.  But what comes after the fact is the selfs position amongst other people.  That is society and think it’s important to at least try and establish social consensus when it comes to moral and immoral behavior.  Otherwise it’s a behavioral free for all where people are unsure about right and wrong which makes shit behavior easier to manifest.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is violence [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26579762 - 04/05/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it is like a slow consensual storm is blowing over this conversation.

an aspect of violence I think is scale of the action, i.e. where the storm is bigger than the house that it destroys, where the bullet is faster than the man can run away from it, where the fist that connects stronger and faster and so it breaks bone and tissue.

this is an unfortunate result from an irresistible and disharmonious contact between strong and weak actors.




You seem like the type who would support the idea of an HOA as shelter from the violence of the storm of novelty.



whats a hoa?
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/HOA


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: what is violence [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26580002 - 04/05/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
whats a hoa?




Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Home-Owners-Associations




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is violence [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26580179 - 04/05/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

well I was once sucked into a BIA which is a business strip association in partnership with a larger municipality. started as secretary then did president for a few years yikes. lots of side walk planning there.


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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: what is violence [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26580681 - 04/05/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with the definition in the dictionary. We're predators, of course we're violent. It's written into our DNA. We watch films and shows about violence. We read stories about violence. We watch people fight in rings. We're violent and I think that it's not necessarily something we should condemn. Should we condemn the violence perpetrated by the blacks under Apartheid? Should we condemn the violence of an abused wife who snaps and murders her husband? Should we condemn the perpetrated again child molesters and torturers? I don't think so. We're violent and we should be.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: what is violence [Re: Darwin23]
    #26580748 - 04/05/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Darwin23 said:
I agree with the definition in the dictionary. We're predators, of course we're violent. It's written into our DNA. We watch films and shows about violence. We read stories about violence. We watch people fight in rings. We're violent and I think that it's not necessarily something we should condemn. Should we condemn the violence perpetrated by the blacks under Apartheid? Should we condemn the violence of an abused wife who snaps and murders her husband? Should we condemn the perpetrated again child molesters and torturers? I don't think so. We're violent and we should be.




.  Seems you have equated violence with morality, and certainly the way many live, they might agree with you--if they gave a damn about morality.

.  Buddhism on the one hand indeed does have things to say about morality, but on the other hand claims the aim of the teachings is simply to reduce, & ultimately to eliminate suffering or stress (or what has also been called: "the peace that passeth understanding").
.  Thus Buddha supposedly said: "Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other to die", and of course anger is the e-motion that mo-tivates violence.
.  In other words, the claim is that: those who pay close attention to how they feel will discover that feelings associated with violence and anger are actually unpleasant sensations.
This is indeed a different argument than a moral one.
.  Mike Tyson's life story, seems to be a case in point, as regards this view.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: what is violence [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26581098 - 04/06/20 06:45 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
well I was once sucked into a BIA ... lots of side walk planning there.




Sidewalks for strong-actors being the Dark Net I suppose; where would you fit in?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is violence [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26581328 - 04/06/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I do not know anything about darknet, fired up tor once on a machine 3 years ago - only once, not looking to fit in anywhere, except maybe one day a shack on a beach in the Mediterranean.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: what is violence [Re: Darwin23]
    #26581625 - 04/06/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Darwin23 said:
I agree with the definition in the dictionary. We're predators, of course we're violent. It's written into our DNA. We watch films and shows about violence. We read stories about violence. We watch people fight in rings. We're violent and I think that it's not necessarily something we should condemn. Should we condemn the violence perpetrated by the blacks under Apartheid? Should we condemn the violence of an abused wife who snaps and murders her husband? Should we condemn the perpetrated again child molesters and torturers? I don't think so. We're violent and we should be.





You don’t entertain the idea of consent as far as what is violent and what is not?

Or the idea that in defense of violence, ones aggressive actions are just?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: what is violence [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26584575 - 04/07/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Some people like fighting...they got no issue with each other...they just like it...no issue...violence is not always bad. I did Krav Maga for a while and got broke fingers, fat lip, bloody noses weekly. I loved it...I didn't like hurting someone, but those guys weren't hurt by my actions...same here...brothers in blood. It was a healthy empowering experience.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: what is violence [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26589676 - 04/09/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

.    Seems rather hard to answer in the case of people whose sexuality is tied to violence and sadism.
.    Such as the famous painter Francis Bacon, who liked to get beat up by his sadistic boy friend, to the point of real injuries.
.    Interestingly his paintings became worth, million of dollars ( a rough guess), because of the art market and because people interpreted them as being about the human condition and not his perversion.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is violence [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26589686 - 04/09/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

so violence is not unfortunate if sought,
therefore it is about consent as well as intent,
but also the effect of a thing at a greater scale like a violent storm.
and you may consent to storms as well -
I think my wife likes them

or maybe being locked up inside with me is driving her nuts


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: what is violence [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26589705 - 04/09/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

One might argue that part of the violence in case of Bacon, was the brutality of his childhood that set the pattern, and that the further violence was  his inability to escape his past. In other words his inability to process his past condemned him,  to reliving it, over and over again.

Most likely something of this sort goes on with many neuroses, and even with in more ordinary cases of internal conflict.

Sorry she's going nuts.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: what is violence [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26596877 - 04/12/20 10:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Probably the the latter....I unfortunately don't have the luxury of being locked up. As essential to emergency response I go out and do my deal regardless.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is violence [Re: Huehuecoyotl] * 1
    #26597478 - 04/13/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

hue, thank you for being in the world and doing what you do do.
I may not have said it before, but I mean it.


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Offlinemalfenderson
PhD, Bovine U
I'm a teapot
Registered: 04/13/20
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Re: what is violence [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26599190 - 04/13/20 10:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

"Turning first, therefore, to force, we must see what force is. It is
an attack by some overpowering agency which cannot be resisted."

"Et ideo de vi imprimis videndum quid sit vis. Et sciendum quod vis est maioris rei impetus cui resisti non potest." (Bracton's Laws and Customs of England, http://amesfoundation.law.harvard.edu/Bracton/Unframed/Latin/v3/20.htm)

This is a sort of classical view, but now we'd say that whether or not it is resisted is a function of, nothing is really resisted, when you take a step, your foot moves down, but the earth moves up ever so imperceptibly, if we trust the calculations, it's just that it moves almost nothing compared with your foot moving down.

But the question most people are interested in is what is just force or unjust force, and many conflate the questions, e.g. violence is "unjust force" and just force is "self defense" or "law enforcement" or whatever, but law means the same as right, at least classically, so "right enforcement" would mean "just violence," which doesn't settle the question of what is right force and what is wrong force.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is violence [Re: malfenderson]
    #26599734 - 04/14/20 07:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I am more concerned with what is right attitude than right force.


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