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DividedQuantum
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Registered: 12/06/13
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Yes that is what I was thinking. The boundaries between the billionaire class and politics and administration are already very fluid, so I can only imagine in a hyper-technological society with a jobless economy, these boundaries probably would not exist at all. I don't think anyone expects these boundaries to harden as time goes forward, in any case.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Yellow Pants



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State control doesn’t have to be in the form of crony capitalism. Communism or state socialism could be also. I can see a scenario where the American masses move farther and farther left into state totalitarianism in order to escape the damage done from crony capitalism. Simply more state control is the proper response to a corrupt state. Socialistic policies are only able to be implemented in society through the state and so this is what comes to be. Meanwhile the economy struggles even more, shortages occur etc. Now the “bad guy” isn’t the elite but is the statists.
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DividedQuantum
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Right but I'm not sure any of this applies to what I'm talking about, which would have no precedent. In a jobless economy, these terms cease to have precise meaning.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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The Blind Ass
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the more natural move would be for technology owning elites to invest in themselves, thereby ensuring cooperation between them and the state against another government body.
Once a large Corp and a governing body are synchronous in their values, they mutually support each other. Although how that works out in politics is often the messier version of events , but that’s to be expected.
So regardless of one or the others stated positions of philosophies, their history can foreshadow their fate.
How this works out in a global economy, is much more difficult to predicate.
Multinational corps invest in themselves, not just in exclusive consideration to their immediate or origininal beneficiaries.
Ownership of unspoken m.corps fluctuate, are not static in person ship , but in value, when someone rises to a position whereby they can exert a significant force upon it, they immediately become valued by said m. Corp, hence it’s mutual-ability. Thereby seizing the rights of most government agencies in a catch 22.
It’s just how it is.
And why a dystopian future for the majority, is not so likely.
And also why change can happen without notice.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/20 09:50 PM)
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Stranger


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Quote:
Levandowski expects that a super-intelligence would do a better job of looking after the planet than humans are doing, and that it would favor individuals who had facilitated its path to power. Although he cautions against taking the analogy too far, Levandowski sees a hint of how a superhuman intelligence might treat humanity in our current relationships with animals. “Do you want to be a pet or livestock?” he asks. “We give pets medical attention, food, grooming, and entertainment. But an animal that’s biting you, attacking you, barking and being annoying? I don’t want to go there.”
I believe this is why Europeans instituted a custom of enforced priestly celibacy. The priests of Europe were the smartest social classes, so I think preventing their reproduction was a way other European social classes worked to prevent themselves from becoming "the pets" of a priest class, preventing priests from having children was a way of abolishing them as a social caste.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: A dystopian future? [Re: lines]
#26585127 - 04/07/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Mmm, perhaps yes, in the sense that such a thing was a byproduct of their own belief system, by that I mean in their actual enforcement of said measure.
Still though, like I mentioned, about face philosophy betrays it’s own history.
In the case of clergy men from the aforementioned time, although it was a practice, coded in fact, it was juxtaposed upon a mammal that’s genetics is predisposed to not following the very practice in question - and in a very primordial way. But there lies the allure, and in trying to go against a predisposition, can come wisdom, hypothetically.
So it follows that, while many observed the practice , fewer upheld it to the standard that’s presented about face. Secrecy.
But yeah, it does stand that it was a measure of control, a stipulated upon their demographic under the guise of spiritual discipline .
And then there’s how history unfolded ...
Could you clarify how your trying to tie this in?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/20 09:48 PM)
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Stranger


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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: So it follows that, while many observed the practice , fewer upheld it to the standard that’s presented about face. Secrecy.
I agree, good point
Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Could you clarify how your trying to tie this in?
Well I just think Western society on a genetic level functions like a beehive, or it is pushing towards becoming that. I am not specifically referring to race when I mention that because I would say the same situation applies to Latin America, and so I mean cultural genetics. And I would say in the West we have a number of social castes who are priestly castes, and so I believe ultimately in the West we have to decide what priest caste we wish to support.
Right now under the coronavirus situation we are seeing the unveiling of a sort of medical-corporate priest caste that has exercised power over the collective for good or evil, but we have many intellectual cliques Who often have competing worldviews, but such people have to be on guard because the general public often persecute them as they persecuted Socrates and Aristotle.
I would say Odin is a priestly archetype. So I think OP is describing a type of beehive scenario that can emerge in society, but there are many types of beehives that can emerge, I am almost certain we will evolve into a beehive structure because of the way knowledge has come to be venerated in society.
So it seems almost certain we will evolve into a beehive style, it is not necessarily inevitable though
Edited by lines (04/07/20 10:25 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: A dystopian future? [Re: lines]
#26585209 - 04/07/20 10:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think I see your points, I’ll just say that the complexity of order in a beehive is a good analogy to compare human society to, and it rings true in the light of genetics being what they are - an encoded formulae for order of sorts. But I’ll also add that it’s always been that way and is based upon previous generations of effort of work and our current surviving generations only seek to further modulate the existing fabric so as to strengthen it. It’s not that it is a beehive, it’s like one in that the primordial powers behind what we see are set up so. My explanation is furthered by simply asking “and then what would you compare the beehive to?” , likely if any, some other part of nature - which in turn is also being dictated In large part by its own genetic code. So we aren’t becoming a beehive, but rather our society and the beehive are already like one another. Each a unique expression of the same nature.
Structure-Function,
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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/20 10:46 PM)
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Stranger


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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: My explanation is furthered by simply asking “and then what would you compare the beehive to?” , likely if any, some other part of nature
I would compare a beehive to a mountain.
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Once a large Corp and a governing body are synchronous in their values, they mutually support each other.
So regardless of one or the others stated positions of philosophies, their history can foreshadow their fate.
How this works out in a global economy, is much more difficult to predicate.
Multinational corps invest in themselves, not just in exclusive consideration to their immediate or origininal beneficiaries.
Ownership of unspoken m.corps fluctuate, are not static in person ship , but in value, when someone rises to a position whereby they can exert a significant force upon it, they immediately become valued by said m. Corp...
... why a dystopian future for the majority, is not so likely.
I think you are right when you say that the porous nature of corporations, the fact they allow for individuals to rise to various ranks, means that life for the common person is not likely to be totally dystopian.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: A dystopian future? [Re: lines]
#26585275 - 04/07/20 11:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Handymen have it made.
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laughingdog
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Another step toward the jobless economy you speak of DQ
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/robotic-etfs-gain-rising-demand-204008985.html Robots Combating Coronavirus Globally
from a longer article linked to above
Robots have found their applications in combatting the coronavirus pandemic by enabling mobile unmanned platforms with ultraviolet light (UV-C) to kill harmful microorganisms and disinfect facilities such as hospitals, office spaces, shopping malls, schools, airports and production facilities. In fact, Dr Lena Ciric, an associate professor at University College London and expert on molecular biology, also believes that UV disinfection robots can help combat the coronavirus outbreak.U.S.-based-Germ Falcon is manufacturing a similar UV disinfection solution for aircraft. UVD Robots, a Danish organization formed from Odense University Hospital and Blue Ocean Robotics, has already received orders for more than 2000 UVD robots from hospitals in China.
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DividedQuantum
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Yes ld, things like this are what prompted me to suggest some of these ideas. What's happening right now: Work is largely shut down; the government is writing what are essentially UBI checks so people can eat and pay bills; businesses are heavily subsidized; specialists continue to work, but the vast majority are not considered "essential"; and things like what you have posted. If it were thirty years from now and machines were performing 95% of job functions, it would be similar in many ways, at least in form.
Can you imagine if we already had a jobless economy, and a pandemic hit? It would look similar, except that the entire economic dimension would be different, and much more seamless. People would be stuck at home, public events would be shut down, sports leagues would have to cancel their seasons -- but neither people nor society would be going bankrupt. Machines can't catch viruses.
Anyway, these are just some of the reasons why I feel the current situation, and a potential future in which we have a UBI and a much more streamlined economy, are isomorphic in interesting ways. Of course, these situations are also very different, of course.
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laughingdog
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At present I don't think agriculture can be fully mechanized. I think the modern giant tractors do stay on course via GPS, so it too is moving in that direction. And I'm sure, some people, are busy figuring out what the next step might be.
Of course people are at present needed to make more people.  But eventually they too may be cloned as in "Brave New World". Of course if they're not going to do anything, I don't know, how many are needed
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