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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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What if we're wrong? 4
#26577819 - 04/04/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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ME: What if we're wrong?
OLD WOMAN: Wrong about what?
ME: All of this ceremony, prayer, meditation. What if, at the end of it, all there is is nothing?
OLD WOMAN: Then we still come out better people.
ME: How?
OLD WOMAN: Can you think of a better way to live than in gratitude? Can you think of a better way to be than kind, loving, compassionate, respectful, courageous, truthful, and forgiving? Even if we're wrong, can you think of a better way to breathe than through all that?
***
I couldn't. I can't. I continue...
Extract from Embers: One Ojibway's Meditations By Richard Wagamese
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Connection
Wise Man!!



Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 599
Last seen: 1 month, 2 days
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: PocketLady]
#26582476 - 04/06/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I trust that!
-------------------- Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑



Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Connection]
#26583754 - 04/07/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can think of a way to achieve all those things.
You set the well-being of all others at the heart of your moral compass.
No ceremony or prayer required
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Svetaketu] 1
#26584483 - 04/07/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: PocketLady]
#26584761 - 04/07/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said: Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time 
Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: qman] 1
#26584814 - 04/07/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't feel this post is suggesting delusion. It's merely suggesting that spiritual practice does not have to be just about finding God/the divine. Only in complete freedom from the control of the ego can one be truly selfless imho, and that is really the point of the spiritual path. Spirituality is not the reason we should try to become selfless. Selflessness is the effect of spirituality.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Svetaketu]
#26587884 - 04/09/20 02:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: I can think of a way to achieve all those things.
You set the well-being of all others at the heart of your moral compass.
No ceremony or prayer required 
This does not preclude taking extreme measure against enemies in order to subdue those who will never attempt to learn, comply or better their own selves.
--------------------
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Babylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: qman]
#26600713 - 04/14/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
PocketLady said: Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time 
Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.
If it leads to good results it is not irrational.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Babylon]
#26600921 - 04/14/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Babylon said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
PocketLady said: Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time 
Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.
If it leads to good results it is not irrational.
Self delusion is rational behavior? No, I don't think so.
If I'm treating my fellow humans with compassion, dignity and charity just because I'm fearful of some mean god in the sky, I'm not genuinely a good person in my opinion.
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Babylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: qman]
#26601014 - 04/14/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Babylon said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
PocketLady said: Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time 
Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.
If it leads to good results it is not irrational.
Self delusion is rational behavior? No, I don't think so.
If I'm treating my fellow humans with compassion, dignity and charity just because I'm fearful of some mean god in the sky, I'm not genuinely a good person in my opinion.
Treating your fellow humans well is not irrational behavior, you may have delusional beliefs, but if they don't cause you to act in ways that are detrimental what difference does that make?
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Babylon] 1
#26601102 - 04/14/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Delusional belief systems are always harmful IMO. However people are often quick to call the gun on something being delusional or not based on their own sureness that they have the facts right, that in itself stems from delusion, so it pays to have some humility when it comes to your own ideas about what is right and wrong. Personally I don't hold anything as absolute, ideas are just ideas, they are not the reality itself.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: PocketLady]
#26601375 - 04/14/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said: ME: What if we're wrong?
OLD WOMAN: Wrong about what?
ME: All of this ceremony, prayer, meditation. What if, at the end of it, all there is is nothing?
OLD WOMAN: Then we still come out better people.
ME: How?
OLD WOMAN: Can you think of a better way to live than in gratitude? Can you think of a better way to be than kind, loving, compassionate, respectful, courageous, truthful, and forgiving? Even if we're wrong, can you think of a better way to breathe than through all that?
***
I couldn't. I can't. I continue...
Extract from Embers: One Ojibway's Meditations By Richard Wagamese
I can rap to this
--------------------
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