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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
What if we're wrong? * 4
    #26577819 - 04/04/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

ME: What if we're wrong?

OLD WOMAN: Wrong about what?

ME: All of this ceremony, prayer, meditation. What if, at the end of it, all there is is nothing?

OLD WOMAN: Then we still come out better people.

ME: How?

OLD WOMAN: Can you think of a better way to live than in gratitude? Can you think of a better way to be than kind, loving, compassionate, respectful, courageous, truthful, and forgiving? Even if we're wrong, can you think of a better way to breathe than through all that?

***

I couldn't. I can't. I continue...



Extract from Embers: One Ojibway's Meditations
By Richard Wagamese


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineConnection
Wise Man!!
Male


Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 599
Last seen: 1 month, 2 days
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26582476 - 04/06/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I trust that!


--------------------
Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...


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OfflineSvetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑
Male


Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Connection]
    #26583754 - 04/07/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I can think of a way to achieve all those things.

You set the well-being of all others at the heart of your moral compass.

No ceremony or prayer required :peace:


--------------------
LAGM2020
LAGM2021


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Svetaketu] * 1
    #26584483 - 04/07/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time :sun:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26584761 - 04/07/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time :sun:




Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26584814 - 04/07/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I don't feel this post is suggesting delusion. It's merely suggesting that spiritual practice does not have to be just about finding God/the divine. Only in complete freedom from the control of the ego can one be truly selfless imho, and that is really the point of the spiritual path. Spirituality is not the reason we should try to become selfless. Selflessness is the effect of spirituality.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlineyeah
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Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Svetaketu]
    #26587884 - 04/09/20 02:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Svetaketu said:
I can think of a way to achieve all those things.

You set the well-being of all others at the heart of your moral compass.

No ceremony or prayer required :peace:





This does not preclude taking extreme measure against enemies in order to subdue those who will never attempt to learn, comply or better their own selves.


--------------------


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OfflineBabylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: qman]
    #26600713 - 04/14/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time :sun:




Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.





If it leads to good results it is not irrational.


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Babylon]
    #26600921 - 04/14/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Babylon said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time :sun:




Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.





If it leads to good results it is not irrational.




Self delusion is rational behavior? No, I don't think so.

If I'm treating my fellow humans with compassion, dignity and charity just because I'm fearful of some mean god in the sky, I'm not genuinely a good person in my opinion.


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OfflineBabylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: qman]
    #26601014 - 04/14/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Babylon said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
Spirituality is not the reason we should try to be selfless of course. I don't think that's what this is suggesting. But, spirituality does specifically teach certain ways/techniques in which we can accomplish this better imho. So even if one doubts the end product of finding God/Enlightenment etc, whatever, it is still not a waste of time :sun:




Behaving irrationally could be considered a waste of time, even if it produces positive results. I shouldn't need to self delude myself into moral or unselfish behavior. It should come from rational thought instead of playing Pascals wager.





If it leads to good results it is not irrational.




Self delusion is rational behavior? No, I don't think so.

If I'm treating my fellow humans with compassion, dignity and charity just because I'm fearful of some mean god in the sky, I'm not genuinely a good person in my opinion.




Treating your fellow humans well is not irrational behavior, you may have delusional beliefs, but if they don't cause you to act in ways that are detrimental what difference does that make?


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: Babylon] * 1
    #26601102 - 04/14/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Delusional belief systems are always harmful IMO. However people are often quick to call the gun on something being delusional or not based on their own sureness that they have the facts right, that in itself stems from delusion, so it pays to have some humility when it comes to your own ideas about what is right and wrong. Personally I don't hold anything as absolute, ideas are just ideas, they are not the reality itself.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: What if we're wrong? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26601375 - 04/14/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
ME: What if we're wrong?

OLD WOMAN: Wrong about what?

ME: All of this ceremony, prayer, meditation. What if, at the end of it, all there is is nothing?

OLD WOMAN: Then we still come out better people.

ME: How?

OLD WOMAN: Can you think of a better way to live than in gratitude? Can you think of a better way to be than kind, loving, compassionate, respectful, courageous, truthful, and forgiving? Even if we're wrong, can you think of a better way to breathe than through all that?

***

I couldn't. I can't. I continue...



Extract from Embers: One Ojibway's Meditations
By Richard Wagamese




I can rap to this


--------------------


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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