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 Yellow Pants
 
Registered: 05/14/17
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 what is violence 
#26576976 - 04/04/20 09:56 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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A brief definition from the Merriam Webster dictionary,
“1a : the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy”
Here is my brief definition,
The initiation of the use of force without consent
Two mma fighters let’s say get into a ring and try to beat the piss out of one another. This is extreme aggression but not violent as both fighters agree to do it. However, if a person pulls a gun at the head of somebody off the street and commands them to get into the ring and fight the willing mma person then this by definition is violence. The armed person is using the threat of physical harm (murder) to force the person off the street into the ring without their consent.
Any objections to these definitions? Is society violent ?
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 Buster_Brown
L'une
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Novelty can violate conservatism.
Novelty can therefore be considered violent.
Elton John's Levon might be considered to be an exposition of a relationship between novelty and conservatism where Jesus wants to go to Venus leaving novelty far behind because the world isn't static, the violence of novelty being the norm.
Therefore Violence is anything novel.
Edited by Buster_Brown (04/04/20 12:24 PM)
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Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Novelty can violate conservatism.
Novelty can therefore be considered violent.
Elton John's [url=https://www.bing.com/search?q=levon elton john lyrics&qs=SS&pq=levon elton john lyric&sc=4-22&cvid=98EF658567644953A495547F3F28F00B&FORM=QBRE&sp=1&ghc=1]Levon[/url] might be considered to be an exposition of a relationship between novelty and conservatism where Jesus wants to go to Venus leaving novelty far behind because the world isn't static, the violence of novelty being the norm.
Therefore Violence is anything novel.
So deterministic nature uses force without consent and it may be violent. I was thinking more in the realm of society and human affairs. We all know a tornado isn’t going to ask questions.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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what of the violence of volcanos and storms
there is no intent to destroy or abuse,
should it not be:" the use of physical force by a person or people so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy"
so as to provide an agent that could have intent, "so as to" implying intent and therefore agency.
or are they reserving the term so that volcanos and storms can be violent.
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Yellow Pants
Registered: 05/14/17
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
what of the violence of volcanos and storms
there is no intent to destroy or abuse,
should it not be:" the use of physical force by a person or people so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy"
so as to provide an agent that could have intent, "so as to" implying intent and therefore agency.
or are they reserving the term so that volcanos and storms can be violent.
Hm right. With the Webster definition that allows volcanoes and storms to be violent, puts them into the ball game. That would be a better definition as it relates to human affairs.
Actually I would have to add to that.
“The initiation of physical force by a person or people as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy.”
“Initiation” because self defense is a reasonable justification for the use of force. To defend oneself with force from illegitimate force.
I call legitimate violence “aggression”. Separating it from illegitimate aggression, or violence. 
Edited by Yellow Pants (04/04/20 03:00 PM)
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Buster_Brown
L'une
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Thanks for the meditation
Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
The initiation of the use of force without consent
If I define novelty as violent, and we agree that reciprocated novelty is a mark of an acceptable violence between two people in a relationship, then violence is not a label of disparagement, and like your example the extreme aggression between two fighters is an acceptable violence between them, but remains an unacceptable violence for people who do not reciprocate in kind or do not agree to the procedure e.g. the blind agreeing to a novel procedure to receive sight.
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Buster_Brown
L'une
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So we might agree that a raised voice in a Church service is an unacceptable novelty/violence that is not reciprocated but perhaps leaves the instigator open to reprisals that they may find unacceptable such as a baby being forcibly hushed or the unruly being forcibly evicted.
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Yellow Pants
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Buster Brown you sound as if all novelty should be considered violent ? I may need you to help me understand where you are coming from there.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi
Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,634
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
what of the violence of volcanos and storms
there is no intent to destroy or abuse,
should it not be:" the use of physical force by a person or people so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy"
so as to provide an agent that could have intent, "so as to" implying intent and therefore agency.
or are they reserving the term so that volcanos and storms can be violent.
This is going in the right direction. Natural phenomena - storms, earthquakes, volcanos, etc, are spoken of as violent , in my eyes, only in so far as it’s poetic license. They can have a destructive effect on living things, but so can a car crash, but we don’t call the car violent.
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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Violence doesn't always imply immorality though, you can call forces without agency violent I suppose but you're perhaps right that that is something different. Violence can be of virtue or vice, but it usually means agency is employed. Whether that be in defense, subjugation, punishment, revenge, cunning, or straightforward malice. I'm not sure about including defense in that on second thought.
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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards.
"Chat your fraff
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Just chat your fraff
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Buster_Brown
L'une
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
Buster Brown you sound as if all novelty should be considered violent ? I may need you to help me understand where you are coming from there.
Yes, I think all novelty is violence that can be distanced from by a Conservative thru non-reciprocation. How a protected existence of non-reciprocation works within a climate of Home-Owners-Associations I haven't figured out yet.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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it is like a slow consensual storm is blowing over this conversation.
an aspect of violence I think is scale of the action, i.e. where the storm is bigger than the house that it destroys, where the bullet is faster than the man can run away from it, where the fist that connects stronger and faster and so it breaks bone and tissue.
this is an unfortunate result from an irresistible and disharmonious contact between strong and weak actors.
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Buster_Brown
L'une
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
it is like a slow consensual storm is blowing over this conversation.
an aspect of violence I think is scale of the action, i.e. where the storm is bigger than the house that it destroys, where the bullet is faster than the man can run away from it, where the fist that connects stronger and faster and so it breaks bone and tissue.
this is an unfortunate result from an irresistible and disharmonious contact between strong and weak actors.
You seem like the type who would support the idea of an HOA as shelter from the violence of the storm of novelty.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Violent mental masterbation ...
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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Buster_Brown
L'une
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
masterbation ...
Thismorning I dreamt that someone, who had recently been operated on for cancer of the mouth, was looking at a manual in an attempt to fix a wheel. I guess novelty isn't a foreign incident even to the experienced temporal mechanic.
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
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Regarding human violence - how about the subject of emotional violence?
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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I think that can come in the form of fascism (anger at non compliance and non conformity of thought) and also in the more immediate and natural form of wrath (anger usually directed toward poor thinking and wrong action).
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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards.
"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
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. Probably some mystical types would say that ego itself is basically violent, and it would seem some good arguments could be made to support this view.
. Oscar Wilde said "Everything is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power."
And of course maintaining power, is a violent process.
And evolution is based on both reproduction, sexual competition, & survival of the fittest, so sex itself, is based in violence.
. So it would seem violence and peace are in some ways a rather dualist concept, that presumes they are total opposites, rather than interdependent: like the north & south poles of a magnet.
. We associate violence with pain and presume the opposite is pleasure or total contentment.
. But if we take evolution to be the larger context, we see that sex is motivated by the desire for pleasure and results in battles between males, often resulting in injury or death accompanied by pain. By looking at the larger context we see the interconnectedness of the supposed total opposites.
. If we take conditioning as the context, then again we see the connection. In this case "the 2 magnetic poles" are the "carrot & the stick".
. And of course none of this would be the case if our nervous systems weren't "wired" to respond in this way, "from the ground up".
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
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Regarding suicide (self violence) - someone once said that only ego would desire to annihilate itself.
It's interesting to contemplate that suicide is an egotistical act.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Trouble is that we've all got the unfortunate task of coping with one. That's just the stark reality of the situation.
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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards.
"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"
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