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Sandala
Noob Shroomer

Registered: 02/20/20
Posts: 197
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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endospores? Where am I going wrong?
#26575654 - 04/03/20 05:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Whole Oats.
No Pre-soak: filled the pan with boiling water from the kettle, 10 mins to get a rolling boil, slap the lid on and 30 mins later a few were just starting to split, drained and spread out on tea towels for ~15-20mins, then loaded into 1 ltr Jars.
Jar lids pierced, 2 x layer micropore tape, tops covered in tin foil. 3 x 1 ltr jars in PC 6L high top presto. Rolling boil, lid on, let it chuff away for 10 mins gassing off and only then stuck the 15lb weight on, (no pressure gauge) turned down heat when the weight started rattling bigtime, maintained a moderate hiss rather than a rattle (it only seemed to rattle with a full on explosion level boil). 2.5hours turned off heat, took 25 mins to de-pressure before I could open the PC.
Jars sat unopened in a cupboard for 25 days, then moved to a new cupboard with a good shake/hand bashing to break up a bit of clumping, no signs of anything growing/contam. Jars NOT opened.
12 days later we got this:

Same process for 2 runs/6jars, only 1 jar showing this contam.
So been reading up a bit trying to work out WTF I did wrong. From this thread: Endospores in Cerial Grains Discussion it seems Bod leaves his Oats to drain for at least 1 hour, and maybe this encouraged any reamaining endospores to germinate prior to PC. (I thought it was just a moisture level reason)
Since I only let mine drain on tea towels for 15-20 mins this may have let some endospores remain?
Is that correct?
What's the best practice for me, leave them to drain longer (min 60 mins) and PC for 3 hours?
Will innoculating straight away get over this issue (dint innoc due to going to agar instead of intial from spore to grain plan after more reading during the grain prep)
cheers, San
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OldManRiver
Fisherman at large


Registered: 11/12/17
Posts: 416
Loc: Pacific NW USA
Last seen: 21 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: Sandala]
#26575714 - 04/03/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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[edit] just read that you didn't inoculate, I have no fucking clue.
Edited by OldManRiver (04/03/20 06:00 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: OldManRiver] 1
#26575738 - 04/03/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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endospores are bacteria. This is mold and your filters failed
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Sandala
Noob Shroomer

Registered: 02/20/20
Posts: 197
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: cronicr] 1
#26575985 - 04/03/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: endospores are bacteria. This is mold
Thanks matey.
don't know how I missed endospores are bacteria every day's a school day 
Quote:
and your filters failed
you mean the 2 layers of micropore tape on the lid?

I guess they do look a bit 'sucked in' where the holes are is that down to cooling after the heat of the PC maybe caused a bit of a vaccume, then shakin em up after the move let some errent mold spore in?
any ideas for a solution? Bigger holes maybe give better FAE and less of a vaccume effect?
Is this common? Worth switching to those bigger fiber discs and a larger hole?
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BibBonk
Stranger
Registered: 04/02/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: Sandala] 1
#26576082 - 04/03/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Micropore tape sucks. Use SFDs or if you don't feel like buying them, use polyfill.
It's not your grain prep doin ya wrong here.
Edited by BibBonk (04/03/20 08:20 PM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: cronicr] 1
#26576232 - 04/03/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: endospores are bacteria. This is mold and your filters failed
Most likely cuz your PC was not cool after 25 minutes of a 2.5 hour run. Let that thing sit over night to properly cool fully, including the grains inside, to room temperature.
PCing for 2 hours at 15PSI kills mold, but not all bacteria. If your grains are clumpy after the PC cycle, you should try rinsing them a bit before doing your grain prep & add a bit of gypsum to your boil.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,333
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 seconds
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: Sandala]
#26576244 - 04/03/20 09:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Huh, weird.

Try a polyfill filter maybe? Did you vent your PC properly?
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Shr00mEater
Strange


Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26576252 - 04/03/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Micropore tape does suck.
Polyfil is much better.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26576254 - 04/03/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,333
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 seconds
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EZ Felt?
Genius! 
I feel like micropore tape is only good for PF Tek and even that its optional.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26576287 - 04/03/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cheap and I forgot to buy it while I was out today.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,333
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 seconds
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Whoops! I go to the craft store for art stuff so Im definitely going to try it out next time. Would it work for FC airflow control as well?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: endospores? Where am I going wrong? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26576334 - 04/03/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I put micropore tape on then felt
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Sandala
Noob Shroomer

Registered: 02/20/20
Posts: 197
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Thanks for replies chaps!
EZ felt - Genius!
Quote:
TranscendingLife said:
PCing for 2 hours at 15PSI kills mold, but not all bacteria. If your grains are clumpy after the PC cycle, you should try rinsing them a bit before doing your grain prep & add a bit of gypsum to your boil.
Thanks man, I thought they clumped a bit because a few had popped and I'd not let them dry off enough tbh, a few hand smacks/shakin up did free them all up, I read someone who returns them back to the pan after draining to dry them off a bit, was going to try that, but I'll take your experience on board.
This contam did confuse the fuck out of me, I've had a magnifying glass on the taped holes and still can't see a breach. There's another possibility that dawned on me last night, we had the worlds noseyist 92yo MIL staying with us at the time of the contam, she's so nosey she burst into my office while I was doing some transfers in the SAB to see what I was doing, I had to give her a science lesson even tho I'd asked her not to open the door, (my transfers got a bit of contam too) I wouldn't put it past her to open a jar, once she spotted them in the cupboard with my petri dishes I got 20 questions
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Edited by Sandala (04/04/20 07:09 AM)
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