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Offlineicetech
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26570572 - 04/01/20 07:45 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I must be lucky.. i have done 125-130 trips in 2.5 years (all acid) and zero hppd or anything weird when not on acid...


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26570632 - 04/01/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
You lack an understanding of nuance, my friend.

HPPD is a severe mental disorder because it is a severe version of normal aftereffects. I'm not overriding anything in the established medical community (although I bet many of us here know way more about HPPD than the physicians diagnosing it). I'm simply saying that what they describe as a disease is simply an extension of something everybody experiences.

Just like tinnitus. Just like floaters. Just like phantom itches.




Your personal experience is not universal. 

Tinnitus, floaters, phantom itches.  All of these are well understood.  There are scientific and medical explanations for all of them.  If you cared to study them you would find the nuance you bring up.  Saying that their existence is somehow relevant to dropping acid is far fetched.

You easily trivialize disorders such as HPPD.  I can only assume you have been sheltered and not had to interact with anyone who is really suffering from a severe mental illness.  It is insulting to them and those that care for them.


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26570657 - 04/01/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well first of all no, there is not a universal and well-understood medical explanation for any of those phenomena (you can make the best case for floaters), especially the latter. If you cared to do 30 seconds of research, you would know that. But this is besides the point.

You are wrong that I trivialize HPPD. That's like saying I'm trivializing chronic leg pain by comparing it to an extended version of acute pain from an injury, or that I'm trivializing migraines by stating that they are a more severe form of headache.

And you would be wrong on your final point. From our discussion, the only thing I can assume of you is that your self-esteem is too weak to have a discussion online without insulting other people.


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OfflineAlexHoratio
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: InfiniteDreams] * 1
    #26570860 - 04/01/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Your personal experience is not universal. 





no experience is universal. medical diagnoses don't come straight from the fundamental fabric of the universe. it's all just humans trying to work stuff out, complicated with medical institutions having pretty limited resources.

atm there is no established medical cause for HPPD. it's diagnosed on a purely phenomenological basis. i agree with KJ that like everything else and every other disorder (anxiety, depression, DPDR, etc), HPPD exists on a spectrum.

in my case, i had after-images and dpdr when i was very young, definitely before trying psychedelics. i took LSD a few times and that made them last a bit longer as well as some other things that fit the diagnostic criteria for HPPD. so it moved me up on the spectrum, it didn't flip a switch.


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: AlexHoratio]
    #26570989 - 04/01/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

KJ starts an edgy HPPD thread - continues to use psychedelics regularly - no pattern to be seen here


:specialralph:


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Northerner]
    #26571005 - 04/01/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Northerner continues to stir up shit - yawn


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus] * 2
    #26571232 - 04/01/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
....I don't think it bothers anyone once they know it's not a permanent defect or something bad (unless it's legit severe HPPD).






I think that's why the topic of HPPD is mostly brought up by folks that are new to psychedelics.

I rarely hear about HPPD from old heads or from folks that have been working with psychedelics for years/have had lots of trips over the years.

For the most part, it seems like people that are new to tripping are the only ones that are concerned about HPPD....Understandably.



It's been over a decade since I first started to work with psychedelics, so it's hard to say how much of a impact they've had on my visual perception since I can't recall what my visual perception was like 10+ years ago lol . I do feel like I might experience lingering after images a bit more, as if each "frame" persists a bit longer. I can't say for sure though. If I stare at carpet or a textured ceiling or similar textured surfaces, I can start to see "frames" start to stack and "layer" on top of one another and start to create patterns...Mostly though, since I've started to work with psychedelics I feel like I've just become more aware of subtle things going on in my visual perception (and perception in general), rather than my perception being permanently altered...I feel like I'm just noticing more things than I did before I started to work with psychedelics. Could be a bit of both :shrug: ...Either way, it's not something that affects or bothers me.





-OM

.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus] * 1
    #26571238 - 04/01/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think visual distortion comes with the human experience.

When I was a kid I remember my eyes playing tricks on me.

The other day, I stepped off a treadill and you could say I had "visuals"


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"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: The Mycologist] * 1
    #26572678 - 04/02/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

know thyself, at least get more familiar with your body and senses.
HPD is not a term I enjoy having applied to what is normal.

this terminology is just more evidence of the diagnostic CABAL empowering psychiatry and the courts


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26572763 - 04/02/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Well first of all no, there is not a universal and well-understood medical explanation for any of those phenomena (you can make the best case for floaters), especially the latter. If you cared to do 30 seconds of research, you would know that. But this is besides the point.

You are wrong that I trivialize HPPD. That's like saying I'm trivializing chronic leg pain by comparing it to an extended version of acute pain from an injury, or that I'm trivializing migraines by stating that they are a more severe form of headache.

And you would be wrong on your final point. From our discussion, the only thing I can assume of you is that your self-esteem is too weak to have a discussion online without insulting other people.




Stay in school buddy, you've got a lot to learn still.


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Offlineicetech
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26573645 - 04/02/20 04:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I am curious if you don't mind KJ, how old are you? and no i'm not asking to attack you, i am just curious.. I have things like floaters in my eyes from trashing them when i was young working on cars and welding and getting rust in them and such. The age thing is just curiosity though.


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: icetech]
    #26573647 - 04/02/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

18. I didn't realize you could get floaters and such from external eye damage


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Edited by Korean Jesus (04/03/20 06:31 AM)


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Offlineicetech
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26574634 - 04/03/20 06:45 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
18. I didn't realize you could get floaters and such from external eye damage




Yeah... stuff gets embedded into the lens and stuff so i have perm black spots.. only really notice them if i focus on them. When i was young nothing could hurt me, you end up paying for that as you get older :smile:


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Invisibleninja cat 09
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26574746 - 04/03/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Aight, I have 2 mins to type this out so forgive any misspellings or whatever that I make

Title. From my anecdotal experience talking to friends and reading around:

For some it goes away the day of the trip.

For most, effects linger for a day or two after a huge trip or a few too many huge trips.

And for some unlucky minority, they stay longer, weeks (seems this is me), months, even years. I'm talking about ghosting and afterimages from looking at any object, these are not illusions and I know they're worse to the point of actually affecting life for others.





Well, yeah, it's the name of he disease: hallucinogen persisting perception disorder.

For me it started when I started to trip and has never really gone away, in about 10ish years of doing psychedelics. It gets better if I give psychedelics a break, but even after breaks of 2+ years it doesn't really go away for me, I just notice it less. I also tend to notice it more if I drink a lot of coffee or smoke weed, use nicotine or sometimes even drinking, but it's never really something intense.

Once it got so bad I felt intense depersonalization for a few days or weeks (can't remember exactly) and I attribute it to having taken psychedelics every weekend for about a month or two straight, along with smoking JWH-018 back when that was a thing. It wasn't fun, but luckily it sorted itself out on its own after a break of a few weeks, which ended up lasting about 18 months.

It's best to respect psychedelics, in my experience.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: ninja cat 09]
    #26574787 - 04/03/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I get some minor visual distorions the days after I trip. Especially after higher doses of dmt.

Usually they subside after a week.

I remember once after my strongest cactus trip I had these colorfull spirals in my vision for half a second anytime (!) I blinked my eyes. Took three days to stop. Was kinda annoying to be honest. :mad:
That was the strongest "hppd-like" effects I got so far, in close to 10 years of tripping almost once every month, or more.

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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Pandemoon] * 1
    #26574911 - 04/03/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Correct title of the thread: "Everyone gets lingering hallucinatory effects from psychedelics, but those who have persisting ones have what is called HPPD." Is there anything more to be discussed here?


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: InnerWisdom] * 1
    #26574928 - 04/03/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Correct title of the thread: "Everyone gets lingering hallucinatory effects from psychedelics, but those who have persisting ones have what is called HPPD." Is there anything more to be discussed here?



I like that, it's nice and precise. My main point was just that this information is not readily available and leads to unnecessary anxiety.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: Korean Jesus] * 1
    #26574949 - 04/03/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Fair enough, that is a good point.


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Offlineicetech
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26575163 - 04/03/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Correct title of the thread: "Everyone gets lingering hallucinatory effects from psychedelics, but those who have persisting ones have what is called HPPD." Is there anything more to be discussed here?




No.. not everyone gets them.. i trip most than most people and when i wake up the day after i'm 100% normal without any vision issues at all.

so.. still not accurate it should be "Some people get lingering effects"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Pretty sure everyone gets HPPD and it just lasts longer for some [Re: icetech]
    #26575265 - 04/03/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I suspect that this whole magical mystery tour is about longer lingerings of sensation and memory.
Some of it - after the trip - is a residual artifact.
Some of it we do anyway; it is best to get familiar with your body so that lingering fragments of sensation or memory are less confusing when time runs amok, rather than running to a psychologist for a crappy diagnosis.


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