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DocRocz
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voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting 2
#26572492 - 04/02/20 02:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm curious to find out if anyone has tried applying voltages to the substrate for fruiting? I read the following article and it started me thinking. High-Voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruit-Body Developments
Any input is greatly appreciated.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: DocRocz]
#26603101 - 04/15/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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not that I've ever heard of. I've seen those articles though. surprising nobodies tried it. Wonder what the easiest way of doing it would be. Just Connect a car battery to it briefly or something?
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Psilosopherr]
#26605056 - 04/16/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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They are showing an increase in yield with voltages from 50kV to 100kV and it starts to drop off after this point. A car battery produces only 12vdc which is a far cry from 50+kV. It would be done by charging/discharging a capacitor across the substrate. Not sure how cost effective a unit that would do this would be. Not something that someone would want to make at home I don't think. If anyone knows of a product designed for the purpose, please link it here so we can check out the specs and price of the equipment.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig]
#26608022 - 04/17/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not sure yet if I buy into this, however actually experimenting could easily be done by anybody by just spending an afternoon googling some things. Capacitors are very easy to come by and its not hard to be safe with them if you are informed.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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Jawn876

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 77
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Smartattack]
#26609132 - 04/17/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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They have some photos and schematics for the generator created in the OPs link. Commercially they also make "Raizo" for this purpose. Some photos here: http://www.rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp/logos/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/S0222_norarat.pdf https://ijpest.securesite.jp/Contents/12/2/PDF/12-02-069.pdf I wonder if it is actually worth the time/money/energy
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Jawn876]
#26612554 - 04/19/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I gave the studies a read, seems as though there may be something to this voltage stimulation thing. I'd like to give it a try but can't find a product. Obviously they exist as the people in the studies are using them but when I google all the buzzwords I can't find anything that I can purchase. If anyone has luck with finding something, please post your findings. I think I'll start a thread in the general cultivation forum seeing as it gets more traffic.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Smartattack] 1
#26614571 - 04/20/20 07:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smartattack said: Not sure yet if I buy into this, however actually experimenting could easily be done by anybody by just spending an afternoon googling some things. Capacitors are very easy to come by and its not hard to be safe with them if you are informed.
It is true that one can work with capacitors safely if they know what they are doing. However, when you are dealing with 50kV and a discharge time of 10 seconds, you had better know what you are doing, big time. A device that holds a charge for that period throughout it's discharge is no small thing and can stop your heart to the point of no return if you find yourself on the return path to the source. I am an electrical engineer as well as a licenced electrician. In my professional opinion, this should not be something that is homemade.
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Smartattack
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig] 1
#26614697 - 04/20/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PiggyPig said:
Quote:
Smartattack said: Not sure yet if I buy into this, however actually experimenting could easily be done by anybody by just spending an afternoon googling some things. Capacitors are very easy to come by and its not hard to be safe with them if you are informed.
It is true that one can work with capacitors safely if they know what they are doing. However, when you are dealing with 50kV and a discharge time of 10 seconds, you had better know what you are doing, big time. A device that holds a charge for that period throughout it's discharge is no small thing and can stop your heart to the point of no return if you find yourself on the return path to the source. I am an electrical engineer as well as a licenced electrician. In my professional opinion, this should not be something that is homemade.
This just means that YOU are the one who should be making it at home.

Waiting on you.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Smartattack]
#26615019 - 04/20/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Damn....you've got a point there. Not the most complex piece of equipment, actually quite simple. Some specific items that could be hard to source in order to measure the actual output voltage and regulate it. I'm going to do some more reading to see what I can find. I'll bet if I brought it up at work, the team could whip something up no problem. Not a topic I bring up at work however, ever.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig]
#26615215 - 04/20/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Smartattack
C'mon man



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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Psilosopherr]
#26615253 - 04/20/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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This reminding me of my favorite YouTube channel.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Psilosopherr]
#26616957 - 04/21/20 07:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lol that's hilarious. Never heard that song before. Never had a theme song before either. Today is a good day.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Smartattack]
#26617035 - 04/21/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Too cool. Reminds me of this stuff we used to do in school when the prof wasn't around. Never anything that crazy though. I am going to obtain a device to shock my trays, whether I have to build one or not. I am going to try to purchase a manufactured device since most of the electronic components available are not rated for anywhere near the voltages I intend to put across them. I WILL find out if this works or not.
What I think will happen is as follows. This is just a guess, however, I like to set out a hypothesis before any experiment. I find it helps to separate what one's learned from what one already knew, after the experiment is complete. Again, this is just a hypothesis and is not to be taken as fact in any way. It is what I THINK will happen, not necessarily what WILL happen.
I think that the shock treatment will stimulate mycelium growth and cause a very dense pinset on first flush. Fruit size will depend on genetics and may actually decrease due to increased competition around them. First flush weight will be greater by a factor similar to that in the study (roughly 80%). The second flush will show a decrease in yield vs. the un-shocked trays but will still be worth waiting for. Third will be a write-off for the shocked tray but worth going for on the un-shocked tray. Overall yields will be similar when only taking weight into consideration. The production increase will made by decreasing the time a tray spends in fruiting conditions, while still harvesting the same weight from it.
I currently yield 1.5 to 2 dry oz. per quart of spawn. Shock treatment may accelerate growth but I just can't see it producing additional weight overall. It's like trying to draw blood from a stone. But if fruiting times can be reduced, the yield/month/sq.ft. would increase inversely by the same amount. 30% less time = 30% more mushrooms. The work factor would increase however, seeing as now more trays, jars, plates, etc. must be prepared to meet the new fruiting schedule. This isn't something someone would want to attempt if they are not getting at least 1.0 oz. per quart of spawn IMO. They have more things to dial in first.
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Jawn876

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 77
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig] 1
#26618763 - 04/21/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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does anyone think there might be a connection between this phenomena and nitrogen fixation in the soil from lightning?
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nosf3r4tu

Registered: 03/26/19
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Jawn876]
#26629869 - 04/26/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's exactly what I was thinking Jawn.
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DrZero
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: nosf3r4tu] 1
#26648129 - 05/04/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read through a few articles (one recently came out about synthetic lighting strikes). I think one article said it was more about the vibrations caused by passing voltage through a substrate (if I can find it again I'll post). When people grow shitake mushrooms, they pound on the logs to stimulate growth, again via vibration. Not sure if the same holds true for psilocybe growth. I've seen anectodal evidence of music inducing growth, which would again lead to the effects of vibration on colonization and maturation. Could probably set up a simple vibration plate for agar dishes and monitor that way. I've been curious to see what the effects would be too.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: DrZero] 1
#26656767 - 05/08/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok, here we go. I made a device, covid style. It's bulky, dangerous and a big pain in the a** but it works. I can't measure the exact output voltage but it should be between 50kV and 60kV depending on the impedance of the device. I'm putting some trays in the fruiting chamber today all from the same mother jar. I will shock half of them and leave the others. I will shock them twice, with the voltage applied corner to corner; once in one direction and once in the other. Strain is clean but far from an isolate. I can't easily adjust the voltage so it's going to be all or nothing.
I would like to try different voltages in the future. That is if I notice a difference in growth with my current experiment. I may also try lining some trays using aluminium foil instead of a garbage bag. This would allow me to energise the foil and ground a probe in the centre of the tray. I could also ground the foil and energise the probe to see if direction of electron flow makes a difference. I'm going to continue with garbage bags for the time being; I want to see if my initial test works first. I'll be sure to sit the tray on some rubber to make sure I don't blow a hole out the side. Fingers crossed, here goes.
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Psilosopherr
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig]
#26657323 - 05/08/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Bravo for following through on this! Can't wait to see how it turns out
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Smartattack
C'mon man



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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Psilosopherr] 1
#26657636 - 05/08/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Soon, all noobs will be instructed to assemble a tesla coil if they wish to grow successfully.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
Edited by Smartattack (05/08/20 02:45 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig]
#26657745 - 05/08/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
PiggyPig said: Ok, here we go. I made a device, covid style. It's bulky, dangerous and a big pain in the a** but it works. I can't measure the exact output voltage but it should be between 50kV and 60kV depending on the impedance of the device. I'm putting some trays in the fruiting chamber today all from the same mother jar. I will shock half of them and leave the others. I will shock them twice, with the voltage applied corner to corner; once in one direction and once in the other. Strain is clean but far from an isolate. I can't easily adjust the voltage so it's going to be all or nothing.
I would like to try different voltages in the future. That is if I notice a difference in growth with my current experiment. I may also try lining some trays using aluminium foil instead of a garbage bag. This would allow me to energise the foil and ground a probe in the centre of the tray. I could also ground the foil and energise the probe to see if direction of electron flow makes a difference. I'm going to continue with garbage bags for the time being; I want to see if my initial test works first. I'll be sure to sit the tray on some rubber to make sure I don't blow a hole out the side. Fingers crossed, here goes.
Ill send you a camera dude. Where's the pics.
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Smartattack
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Registered: 12/21/18
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: bodhisatta]
#26657772 - 05/08/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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And don't forget to set it to video mode!
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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Kimble
Idiot


Registered: 03/08/18
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Smartattack]
#26657789 - 05/08/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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panoramics
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig]
#26659931 - 05/09/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah dude, we nerds want some photos!
-------------------- Only a lot of stories...
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: panoramics]
#26660213 - 05/09/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'd love to see the setup you've built man. I wonder if it'd be possible to rig up a little grow tub between two metal plates and use something like a fluorescent light ballast hooked up to a flyback transformer to keep a more constant electric field in place. You could put agar plates in there pretty easily so the plane of growth is parallel to the electric field.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Smartattack]
#26661774 - 05/10/20 07:09 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'll post my results as far as timing and yield. Maybe a couple pics of the flushes for comparison sake. I will not be posting pictures of my device; I don't want anyone to try this at home, seriously. It is very dangerous the way it is set up now and will most certainly stop someones heart if the voltage gets across the wrong two points. It requires an isolated ground which then must be un-isolated to discharge residual voltage. Bad design admittedly, but if I can design a safe device or purchase a manufactured one, I will post pics of it.
When I shocked the trays, it was quite nerve racking. Everything in the lab is stainless steel and none of it is bonded to ground. On initial discharge, the hair on the back of my neck stood straight up and the ends of my ears felt like they were "crackling". The air was most certainly ionised and many static shocks ensued afterwards.
If my experiment shows positive results, I will keep moving forward with it for sure. I know they make a device for shocking earth to drive out worms that I am going to look into as well. It is a lower voltage but will provide a more constant current flow. As usual with this hobby, waiting is the biggest part. That's what I'll be doing for the next week at least. Fingers crossed.
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PiggyPig
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#26661793 - 05/10/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Interesting thought. Growing in a magnetic field would induce small voltages into the growing medium and most likely cause eddy currents to flow within it. I'm not sure if it would have an effect or not. With my current experiment, I am inducing a high voltage to create a sudden but significant current flow through the substrate. I didn't measure the resistance between the probes while in the substrate so I'm not sure what this current value would be.
I think that high voltage would be the key here in order to "damage" the mycelium and then allow it to recover. It would be impossible to induce through electromagnetic induction IMO. Not to say that it is not worth a shot. I'm more interested in making my final trays fruit faster seeing as this is the limiting factor on my setup. My agar trays don't take up much space so growth speed in them isn't really a concern.
On the other hand, energy is energy and perhaps mycelium can harness it and use it to grow faster/larger. As long as the magnetic field is not stationary and you achieve cutting action between the field and the sub, there is potential for transfer. As long as the voltage changes constantly as it does with alternating current, cutting action will be achieved. You may be onto something, or maybe not; only one way to find out!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: PiggyPig]
#26661797 - 05/10/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Aka there's no device.

Saw that coming
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: voltage Methods for Mushroom Fruiting [Re: DocRocz]
#26661798 - 05/10/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: Make a thread when you actually have something to post
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