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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
#26569593 - 03/31/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
10kVisions said:
Quote:
Sockadin said: If your RH in you house is low your mold count is gonna be low. How often do you see mold on agar? Take a freshly poured plate and swish is around the room with the lid off. I recently did this. I have a vornado300 or some Hepa thing in my bedroom. Turned it on and let it run for 20 mins then opened a plate infront of the discharge for 2 seconds and it grew some nasty green mold. But I had a dehumidifier running in my bathroom cause of a water leak for 2 weeks and did the open air swoop with a plate and it never grew anything.
honestly when i got my syringes brand new (2 from lil shop 2 from mush.com) i did arbout 30 plates and used different syringes for each just to test. for once i didn't get a single plate with mold. i've dry tested plates inside and outside the sab before and seen mold in both and nothing in both as well. using the same syringes as mentioned above, now days when i do plates i see 50/50 mix of mold to no mold on 20ish poured plates (average of how many i usually do each time). answer me this.
1. would leaving the syringes in teh room temp (74-76º) cause bad things to grow in them? (if so that would explain why i see allot more contams for the same syringes now than i did when i first got them)
2. i recently knocked a fresh set of jars straight from a syringe (flaming in between etc etc) and now am worried there isn't enough filter so im wondering if i should just add a few layers of paper tape over the top of the polyfill to help filter them? i figure pulling the poly fill and opening the jars to restful them would definitely not be a good idea. these jars have been sitting about 6 days or so.
ok so i have some jars i can use to do a Vermiculite moisture test. not to say teh jars are amazing or anything but they are colonized (all but the top) and why do a dry test on coir with not a possibility of any growth? lol
so here is my plan and i have a new document setup so i can keep daily track with photos..
Water to Vermiculite mix test (moisture test) Current - 4qW to 2qV
bucket 1 - 4qW to 3qV Bucket 2 - 4.5qW to 3.5qV Bucket 3 - 5qW to 4qV
let me know your thoughts on that. cheers
Your doing straight Vermiculite? Or are you saying your going to try these ratios and add to coir before mixing.
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10kVisions
High, Real High.



Registered: 04/08/18
Posts: 188
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Thrill]
#26569599 - 03/31/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thrill said: Maybe make some lids with SFD patches or even syringe filters? Probably help with the tops drying out and not colonizing. I like to use syringe filters on my jars personally, even though they can be costly if youre doing lots of lids, and they probably dont work any better than a regular filter patch, but they probably would let less moisture escape the jar.
If youre always getting to the end step of spawning to your bulk before things go bad, maybe thats where the issue sits. If youve been having tubs go green after the move, maybe the house has a high concentration of mold spores in the air thats getting in when you spawn. Try doing a test run at another place if you can, or at least spawn it some place else and seal it up before bringing it home to colonize, see if you get the same problem.
Ya im looking at SFD's as we speak. honestly i've never seen those before its always been polyfil for me so that was a huge eye opener. as for different areas. i actually did this with my last set of tubs and the 3 i did in fully operate parts of the house all went bad.
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10kVisions
High, Real High.



Registered: 04/08/18
Posts: 188
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
#26569604 - 03/31/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said:
Quote:
10kVisions said:
Quote:
Sockadin said: If your RH in you house is low your mold count is gonna be low. How often do you see mold on agar? Take a freshly poured plate and swish is around the room with the lid off. I recently did this. I have a vornado300 or some Hepa thing in my bedroom. Turned it on and let it run for 20 mins then opened a plate infront of the discharge for 2 seconds and it grew some nasty green mold. But I had a dehumidifier running in my bathroom cause of a water leak for 2 weeks and did the open air swoop with a plate and it never grew anything.
honestly when i got my syringes brand new (2 from lil shop 2 from mush.com) i did arbout 30 plates and used different syringes for each just to test. for once i didn't get a single plate with mold. i've dry tested plates inside and outside the sab before and seen mold in both and nothing in both as well. using the same syringes as mentioned above, now days when i do plates i see 50/50 mix of mold to no mold on 20ish poured plates (average of how many i usually do each time). answer me this.
1. would leaving the syringes in teh room temp (74-76º) cause bad things to grow in them? (if so that would explain why i see allot more contams for the same syringes now than i did when i first got them)
2. i recently knocked a fresh set of jars straight from a syringe (flaming in between etc etc) and now am worried there isn't enough filter so im wondering if i should just add a few layers of paper tape over the top of the polyfill to help filter them? i figure pulling the poly fill and opening the jars to restful them would definitely not be a good idea. these jars have been sitting about 6 days or so.
ok so i have some jars i can use to do a Vermiculite moisture test. not to say teh jars are amazing or anything but they are colonized (all but the top) and why do a dry test on coir with not a possibility of any growth? lol
so here is my plan and i have a new document setup so i can keep daily track with photos..
Water to Vermiculite mix test (moisture test) Current - 4qW to 2qV
bucket 1 - 4qW to 3qV Bucket 2 - 4.5qW to 3.5qV Bucket 3 - 5qW to 4qV
let me know your thoughts on that. cheers
Your doing straight Vermiculite? Or are you saying your going to try these ratios and add to coir before mixing.
Lol sorry i didn't realize i hadn't added in the Brick... no all of these would involve 1 brick of Coir.
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Thrill
Regnarts




Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 1,928
Loc: Beyond the Grey Sky
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
#26569632 - 03/31/20 05:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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You can also use Tyvek from a painters suit or from mail envelopes for a filter patch. Used to be a popular way to do it years ago. If you wanna try the filter discs, I could send you one to cut up for patches if you want, or you could buy some, they arent that expensive. I also have a whole shit load of tyvek envelopes too (someone once sent me like 100 or so just cause he had so many lol).
If mold spore concentration is high in the current house, its probably an all over issue instead of isolated to one room, especially if its just coming from the house instead of opening a badly contaminated jar in a room. If you can take it to a different house/apartment for the spawning and seal it up old school in a trash bag to let it colonize, see if it makes a difference. Could tell you if its your house or your methods causing the problem.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Thrill]
#26569915 - 03/31/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I love SFD's and Syringe Filter but have been using micro pore tape because Coivd laid off the wife and cut back my hours and I do believe my grains are drying faster as well. Hopefully when summer comes this will cut down a bit. I probably have bacterial spawn in some cases.
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jbgtaa
extraterrestrial



Registered: 06/09/19
Posts: 1,785
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
#26570000 - 03/31/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sounds like you’re over thinking things. Inoculating with syringes causes contams down the line because they are dirty and not sterile. No matter what vendor they come from, the contain bacteria and possibly mold spores. Adding those types of inoculate to a sterile environment (grain jars) leads to contamination. Contamination CAN come from improper filtering but I’ve had huge success with just a 1/4” hole stuffed tight with poly.
Adding extra water and whatever the spore syringe contains is what causes contams in those situations.
Just get a clean agar culture and nocc jars with that.
-------------------- If the thunder don't get ya, the lightning will. In another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked through your mother's face. Trade List Forever giving away prints. PM at anytime for a free print.
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Thrill
Regnarts




Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 1,928
Loc: Beyond the Grey Sky
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: jbgtaa]
#26570033 - 03/31/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jbgtaa said: Sounds like you’re over thinking things. Inoculating with syringes causes contams down the line because they are dirty and not sterile. No matter what vendor they come from, the contain bacteria and possibly mold spores. Adding those types of inoculate to a sterile environment (grain jars) leads to contamination. Contamination CAN come from improper filtering but I’ve had huge success with just a 1/4” hole stuffed tight with poly.
Adding extra water and whatever the spore syringe contains is what causes contams in those situations.
Just get a clean agar culture and nocc jars with that.
Ive used dozens of syringes over the years, and never had a single contam from any of them. Syringes arent the problem here, if it was, hed be seeing the green mold way before he gets to colonizing the bulk sub.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Thrill]
#26570041 - 03/31/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes syringes with spores to agar are fine. Spores to grain are gambling. Make me a print that is 100% clean and you can have my house (also my mortgage) but yeah. Fruiting is not sterile so prints are not sterile.
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10kVisions
High, Real High.



Registered: 04/08/18
Posts: 188
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
#26570793 - 04/01/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks everyone for chiming in. my options at this point are to go with 1. adding more water to help my moisture issue and 2. start using the SFD's. those seem like the 2 things that will aim directly at my problems at this time. i know my process(s) i can make clean agar, i can knock form syringes, i've been doing all that for years, this is a matter of figuring out what changed in my process from my move and fixing it. id'e like to get back to 3-4 flushes again. Cheers 10k
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xnirvanax
Frank's biological son

Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 131
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
#26570880 - 04/01/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Guessing both the TC missed this part. Your grain prep is wrong.
Quote:
Prep - meaning? i soak my seed for 24 hours, rinsing 3x at first, cleaning out most of the "floaters" as best i can, then at the 24 hour mark i rinse seed again 2-3x util water runs off clean. Dry with hair drier until nothing sticks to a paper towel but ins't completely dry. jar and cover with foil.
You only soak for 24 hours, then rinse with water and DRY the grain off? I can't see how you can properly hydrate it.
There's three methods I do to prepare Wild Bird Seed, depending on how I feel. All works for me. 1 in 10 tubs contams. I work in front of HEPA and SAB, same rates for each.
1. Soak 24 hours, drain for 5 minutes, STRAIGHT to jar and PC. Excess moisture will be absorbed by seeds.
2. Frank' WBS Tek Soak 12-24 hours, BRING TO SIMMER, dump and drain immediately when simmering. Use when dry to the touch.
3. Hamloaf's No Soak WBS Boil Wild Bird Seed at 200'F for 5 Minutes
-------------------- Inspired by FrankHorrigan
Edited by xnirvanax (04/01/20 11:04 AM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 26 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: xnirvanax]
#26570900 - 04/01/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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drying the grain after just a soak may leave you on the dry side but it won't cause mold issues, molds are killed in the pc
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Thrill
Regnarts




Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 1,928
Loc: Beyond the Grey Sky
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: xnirvanax]
#26570942 - 04/01/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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If the moisture content was that wrong, hed be seeing bad growth more places than just at the very top. I dont use WBS so idk how to prep it, but if growth is reaching everywhere else, Id bet the moisture content is sufficient. The top not colonizing is almost for sure from moisture loss from the hole (and maybe its exacerbated by non-ideal water content? idk).
Good catch tho, I didnt notice it either
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Thrill]
#26570947 - 04/01/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah I do think the mold is a spawn issue, but if the OP is using jars that are not fully colonized on top and moving it to bulk this explains the mold outbreak.
I think boil hard strain and load into PC will help with the dry grain issue, Also water is subject t gravity. The top grains will dry out with SFD's or any other filter if your not hydrating your grains enough. I have never been successful with any type of no boil grain prep.
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Baeomaze



Registered: 11/02/16
Posts: 179
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
#26570973 - 04/01/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: Yeah I do think the mold is a spawn issue, but if the OP is using jars that are not fully colonized on top and moving it to bulk this explains the mold outbreak.
 I asked this question earlier and don’t feel like it got answered.
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xnirvanax
Frank's biological son

Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 131
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Baeomaze]
#26570995 - 04/01/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've had jars that didn't colonize on top.
When they reached full colonization and I let them sit for about a week, then a green powder started forming on top. It was trich.
Like mentioned earlier, it may be that the filter is drying out your top grains. BUUUT, I only have this happen to me once in a blue moon and I have been using the same filters for over a year, so I'm thinking it just boils down to your SAB technique.
There's always room for improvment.
-------------------- Inspired by FrankHorrigan
Edited by xnirvanax (04/01/20 11:32 AM)
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Thrill
Regnarts




Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 1,928
Loc: Beyond the Grey Sky
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: xnirvanax]
#26571021 - 04/01/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I still say its the new house. Nothings changed in his prep or methods, but hes getting most tubs going green after moving to the new house. The changed variable is the new location.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 26 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Thrill]
#26571024 - 04/01/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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in hos old location he wasn't using agar either
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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monkey_accident
fail now learn later


Registered: 05/10/19
Posts: 678
Loc: im here, bro
Last seen: 5 months, 10 days
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: cronicr]
#26571049 - 04/01/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Lids could be the problem at whatever vector it may be ports or filters, maybe make some new ones with tyvek or sfd. Id say try to get any type of fruiting going on, clone a nice one and transfer a few times, post that agar dish and let us see. Maybe even try a new grain, like oats or rye just to switch it up. If your jars dont fully colonize, and you spawn it to bulk I'm not surprised it contams every time.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,816
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 13 hours, 23 minutes
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Somebody just did a tub of only uncolonized grains from the top of a bunch of spawn jars and it grew fine. Turns out there’s still myc on them.
Also on the last page with the lids you said they wouldn’t explain why one time 2 out of 4 will grow then the next time none will.
That totally explains it. If you’re having a 50% contam rate then the odds of all of them contaminating are high enough that it’ll happen once in a while.
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LAGM2020     
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