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Offlinesusurrador
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The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. * 1
    #26570111 - 03/31/20 10:10 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



The first not quite news that has given me legit hope since pretty much ever.

Please watch the whole video and come back for discourse.

Even if it is not true at this time, this guy is on the right path.

:rocketcrotch: :fuckyeah: :rocketcrotch:


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador] * 1
    #26571151 - 04/01/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

-Run up the national debt/QE infinity
-Devalue the FED dollar
-Utilize Federal Gov right of issuing its own currency.
-Print Debt-Free New Dollar (since dollars are already not backed by anything, no real need to be borrowing money to create new money and paying interest.)
-Pay off Fed Dollar National Debt with new currency.
-Limit or block FEDs future ability to control the money supply by merging responsibilities with the Treasury and only issuing "greenbacks" (or equivalent)

I dunno... Seems like a perfect storm with current events. I don't think this was planned. But I could see how if the right ideas were put in the right people's heads, the crashing of the economy right now is the perfect time to implement such a plan.

Trump boasted back in 2016 that he could pay off the national debt by the end of his next term. Was he just being a politician or does he have a plan?

I don't think he's as dumb as people think. You don't work your way through all the filters en route to the Presidency as a dumbass.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2017/may/02/whats-up-with-donald-trump-andrew-jackson/

"Andrew Jackson took several measures to rid the government from corruption of previous administrations. Presidential investigations were conducted in all executive Cabinet offices and departments. Jackson asked Congress to reform embezzlement laws; reduce fraudulent applications for federal pensions; and pass laws to prevent evasion of custom duties and improve government accounting. His first Postmaster General had to resign when it was found that he engaged in corrupt practices. Jackson replaced him with Amos Kendall, who went on to implement much needed reforms in the Postal Service.

(QUOTE FROM: https://learnodo-newtonic.com/andrew-jackson-accomplishments)

And people wonder why Trump has fired so many people and is running a skelton crew.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador] * 2
    #26571434 - 04/01/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Andrew Jackson also presided over one of the most corrupt administrations in his time and caused one of the worst economic depressions until the great depression. Along with ethnic cleansing.

So, yeah. Pretty good comparison to diaper don.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26571510 - 04/01/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Probably why he only got the 20.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador] * 1
    #26571739 - 04/01/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

No, The Elite don't want a weak dollar, never mind a dollar devaluation. 

Trump has stated for 3-4 years he wanted a weaker dollar, yet the US dollar continues to trade higher. It's not what they say, it's what they actually do.

The Elite want a deflationary economic environment and strong currency. The whole goal is currency and debt preservation, not economic growth and inflation.

The Fed is printing money to practice socialism for The Elite, it's not to help anything on Main Street. It's socialism for Wall Street and debt slavery for Main Street. It's the perfect plan and I don't see how there's anything that's going to stop it.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26571996 - 04/01/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:


The first not quite news that has given me legit hope since pretty much ever.

Please watch the whole video and come back for discourse.

Even if it is not true at this time, this guy is on the right path.

:rocketcrotch: :fuckyeah: :rocketcrotch:



This guy clearly doesn't understand quantitative easing whatsoever.  Or the Federal Reserve for that matter.

He thinks the Fed creates all the booms and busts we see.  It's actually just the opposite.  The Fed steps in to help prevent these.

He pointed out the Fed admitted a mistake they made early in the First Great Depression, but instead of saying how they learned from that mistake, he claims the Fed admitting to such a mistake proves they're evil.

He says the US simply should print all the money it needs without going into debt.  That's known to be highly idiotic because of inflation.  He clearly doesn't understand a thing about banking, the Fed, or economics.  The Fed is absolutely necessary to give us money in times of need without creating an inflation problem.

Yes, the US is in WAY too much debt right now, but that's not because of the Fed, it's because we haven't collected enough taxes from the rich since Reagan.

He doesn't seem to understand that the profits from the Fed goes back into the Treasury minus a nominal fee.

This guy is just plain stupid (and wrong).  :shrug:


PS - Twice in the middle of the video the guy advertises Patriot Gold, and says "we will show you..." implying that's his company and he's hoping to make a buck off his viewers selling gold.  Then he asks for donations to Patriot at the end.  Don't do it!


--------------------
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26572000 - 04/01/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If you ever see an advertisement for gold, that's probably a good time to sell your gold.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26572003 - 04/01/20 08:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The Fed is printing money to practice socialism for The Elite, it's not to help anything on Main Street.



How the Government spends its money isn't the Fed's call.  But you are correct in that it is currently mostly going to Wall St.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26572004 - 04/01/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
If you ever see an advertisement for gold, that's probably a good time to sell your gold.



Right.  If these guys thought gold would go up in value, why are they trying to sell it?  :shrug:

The price is nice and high right now.  It will plummet after coronavirus.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572045 - 04/01/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The US dollar is one of the most stable currencies in the history of the world. This thread is dumb.

OP should live his life using bitcoin. See how that works out.


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: koods]
    #26572047 - 04/01/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
OP should live his life using bitcoin. See how that works out.




Been working out pretty damn great for me, I'm up 50% in the last 2 weeks.

Of course I day trade at work, so my actual returns are much higher. Man, those 5% swings every four hours 2-3 weeks ago were glorious.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26572057 - 04/01/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It’s not a currency.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: koods]
    #26572074 - 04/01/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So what?

It's better than currency. It's an investment vehicle with the best returns I've ever seen in my life. I've been dumping all my currency into the market everywhere. Just put a few thousand into CCL, too.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26572113 - 04/01/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Bitcoin lost 30% of its value in the past month :laugh2:

Hardly a great investment.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: koods]
    #26572124 - 04/01/20 09:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I didn't own bitcoin before the big drop. I got the coinbase alert and figured I'd at least get the dead cat...Definitely got more than that.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26572172 - 04/01/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



Now watch this.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: koods]
    #26572193 - 04/01/20 10:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The US dollar is one of the most stable currencies in the history of the world. This thread is dumb.

OP should live his life using bitcoin. See how that works out.




Bitcoin isn't legal tender.

But I've used a good deal of bitcoin for specific purchases and it worked out great.

Look at bitcoin since inception and compare to any other investment in the world for the same time period.

Derp a derp.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador] * 1
    #26572216 - 04/01/20 10:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
Now watch this.



I already wasted 20 min on the first video by someone who was absolutely clueless, and won't waste another 2 hours.

But I'll discuss any points from the video you think are good.

I watched the first 5 minutes and it said there is too much debt.  Though I agree with that, I already addressed that in my first reply above.  We fix that problem by restoring higher tax rates on billionaires that Reagan removed.  We can see the debt problem was being taken care just fine of until Reagan:



Easy peasy.

Issuing money without debt either creates hyperinflation, or leads to severe money shortages in times of need.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572229 - 04/01/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The problem is the debt does not need to be created in the first place.

Why are we paying interest to create money?

When the creator is conjuring the money from nothing.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572241 - 04/01/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Again, because if we just create money as we need it, without debt as your videos propose, we get hyperinflation.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26572243 - 04/01/20 10:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
No, The Elite don't want a weak dollar, never mind a dollar devaluation. 

Trump has stated for 3-4 years he wanted a weaker dollar, yet the US dollar continues to trade higher. It's not what they say, it's what they actually do.

The Elite want a deflationary economic environment and strong currency. The whole goal is currency and debt preservation, not economic growth and inflation.

The Fed is printing money to practice socialism for The Elite, it's not to help anything on Main Street. It's socialism for Wall Street and debt slavery for Main Street. It's the perfect plan and I don't see how there's anything that's going to stop it.




https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2020/03/31/top-options-trades-as-fed-weakens-us-dollar/amp/

As we continue to pump the money, it will get weaker.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador] * 1
    #26572244 - 04/01/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't recall you posting in the Political Forum much before, but Forbes has been proven time and time again to be one of the worst sources of information there is.  I'll still read the article and comment shortly...


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572246 - 04/01/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Again, because if we just create money as we need it, without debt as your videos propose, we get hyperinflation.




If there is no rhyme or reason to the money creation, yes- it will hyperinflate at a point.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572298 - 04/01/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, I read the article, and it says the dollar may go down as we issue more currency.  But this could be offset by other countries issuing more as well.  I don't know what the net effect will be.

Quote:

susurrador said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If we just create money as we need it, without debt as your videos propose, we get hyperinflation.



If there is no rhyme or reason to the money creation, yes- it will hyperinflate at a point.



That's why we don't just create money as needed.


--------------------
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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572305 - 04/01/20 11:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I didnt watch the video.

I would guess that the 2 TRILLION dollar stimulus package will cause the US dollar to hyperinflate. And that is not a good thing for the US dollar.....

It might even collapse it.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572309 - 04/01/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Ok, I read the article, and it says the dollar may go down as we issue more currency.  But this could be offset by other countries issuing more as well.  I don't know what the net effect will be.

Quote:

susurrador said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If we just create money as we need it, without debt as your videos propose, we get hyperinflation.



If there is no rhyme or reason to the money creation, yes- it will hyperinflate at a point.



That's why we don't just create money as needed.




And how is it different when we let someone else do the magic rabbit(dollars) from a hat trick? It is different because we pay dearly in interest. Why? Why pay interest if you don't have to? It's the worlds biggest scam.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26572313 - 04/01/20 11:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I would guess that the 2 TRILLION dollar stimulus package will cause the US dollar to hyperinflate. And that is not a good thing for the US dollar.....

It might even collapse it.



No, it won't unless we do what susurrador is suggesting (just printing the money).

Instead we borrow the money, so that new money isn't created.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26572318 - 04/01/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I didnt watch the video.

I would guess that the 2 TRILLION dollar stimulus package will cause the US dollar to hyperinflate. And that is not a good thing for the US dollar.....

It might even collapse it.




The second video I posted is the nuts and bolts. The first one is the documaker talking about how he sent a paper to the WhiteHouse with his position and historical examples of where this has been done.

There are assumptions the average person is working with and one is that the Fed is a government agency.

The other is that we need the Fed.

Both are incorrect and very few people have stepped back far enough and looked at history to see what has really been going on.

Time and time again control of the money supply has been raided from our control.

The Secret of Oz takes you through the history. Blew my fucking mind.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572321 - 04/01/20 11:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

New money is created through the fractional reserve system.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I would guess that the 2 TRILLION dollar stimulus package will cause the US dollar to hyperinflate. And that is not a good thing for the US dollar.....

It might even collapse it.



No, it won't unless we do what susurrador is suggesting (just printing the money).

Instead we borrow the money, so that new money isn't created.




But the Fed just wills the money into existence. Literally.


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572322 - 04/01/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
And how is it different when we let someone else do the magic rabbit(dollars) from a hat trick? It is different because we pay dearly in interest. Why? Why pay interest if you don't have to? It's the worlds biggest scam.



Explained in my previous post.

We borrow money that already exists so we don't have to create new money.


--------------------
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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572327 - 04/01/20 11:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Nay. The money is created. Then loaned at interest.

The second step would be unneccessary if the government took responsibility for the money supply.

We are being sold our own money which we have right to create ourselves.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572328 - 04/01/20 11:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

And most of the money is created through fractional reserve system.

So we pay interest on money that was multiplied by 10 just for being in a bank.

So bank gets principle x10 plus interest x10 on deposits.

Again. Why do we have to pay interest to a bank to create the money?


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572329 - 04/01/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
New money is created through the fractional reserve system.

The Fed just wills the money into existence. Literally.



And that same money is just willed out of existence when the money is paid back.  Literally.

Why Money Disappears When Loans Are Repaid


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572342 - 04/02/20 12:01 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

And the interest?


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572346 - 04/02/20 12:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

New money is created to cover interest, and that's one reason we see about 3% inflation per year.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572349 - 04/02/20 12:09 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

New money created as national debt? Pays the interest?


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572354 - 04/02/20 12:13 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

No, not created as debt.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26572797 - 04/02/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Again, because if we just create money as we need it, without debt as your videos propose, we get hyperinflation.




If there is no rhyme or reason to the money creation, yes- it will hyperinflate at a point.




But there is clear reason to where the printed money goes, it goes directly into the financial system (Wall Street) and never enters Main Street.

Money supply has been exploding higher the past 10 years. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2

Yet, there's no inflation. Velocity of money is at an all-time low.  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

Again, free money for Wall Street and starving the peasants doesn't hurt the currency. In fact, it strengthens it.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572804 - 04/02/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I would guess that the 2 TRILLION dollar stimulus package will cause the US dollar to hyperinflate. And that is not a good thing for the US dollar.....

It might even collapse it.



No, it won't unless we do what susurrador is suggesting (just printing the money).

Instead we borrow the money, so that new money isn't created.




Even the QE that is going into the financial system for the past 12 years hasn't hurt the US Dollar. The Fed balance sheet is now over $5 trillion and growing. It's likely to top $10 trillion in short order now.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26572921 - 04/02/20 09:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Even the QE that is going into the financial system for the past 12 years hasn't hurt the US Dollar. The Fed balance sheet is now over $5 trillion and growing. It's likely to top $10 trillion in short order now.



The good thing about QE is that the Fed can always sell it's assets and take the money back out of the economy if it needs to, though it hasn't seemed to need to thus far.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26572968 - 04/02/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Even the QE that is going into the financial system for the past 12 years hasn't hurt the US Dollar. The Fed balance sheet is now over $5 trillion and growing. It's likely to top $10 trillion in short order now.



The good thing about QE is that the Fed can always sell it's assets and take the money back out of the economy if it needs to, though it hasn't seemed to need to thus far.




It all depends on how the printed money is used. If The Fed bought all of the student debt and eliminated the burden for students, that would create strong demand and economic growth. The Elite doesn't want the outcome.

Edited by qman (04/02/20 10:24 AM)

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26572977 - 04/02/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think they mind strong demand and economic growth.  The outcome they want to avoid is money going to students rather than themselves.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26573638 - 04/02/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, the calculus here is much simpler.

Option one: 10 units of economic growth, of which wall street keeps 8.

Option two: 20 units of economic growth of which wall street keeps 10.

Wall street prefers option one.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26573653 - 04/02/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I don't think they mind strong demand and economic growth.  The outcome they want to avoid is money going to students rather than themselves.




At this point in the debt cycle, they can't have real economic growth and inflation (in their minds). They own the vast majority of the municipal/state, corporate, Federal, mortgage and personal debt.  They don't want to see that debt inflated away as bondholders.

They could print money and make the debt burden go away tomorrow and have real economic growth return on Main Street. They don't want that outcome, they prefer debt slavery and low growth.

Ever notice they never ask 'who's going to pay for it?' when it comes to their tax cuts and trillions in "stimulus"?  :lol:

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26574022 - 04/02/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

They could print money and make the debt burden go away tomorrow and have real economic growth return on Main Street. They don't want that outcome, they prefer debt slavery and low growth.

Are the theys all the same people here?

Or are the first they: congress and the admin. And the second they: the banks?


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26574378 - 04/03/20 01:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't pretend to understand this issue. I remember being very concerned about the deficit in the late 70's. Yet it just keeps rolling on with more zero's added. One would think at some point it has to come tumbling down, but they just keep rigging the system.

What do you think is the last nail in the coffin scenario, and any guesses on the time frame?


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26574414 - 04/03/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm struggling to wrap my head around it, myself.

From what Still says in his videos, he's submitted some kind of paper to the White House and thinks it got into the right hands.

Since then Trump boasted that he could pay off the national debt by the end of his next term.

From what I gather the main reason we pay Federal income tax is to pay the interest on the national debt...

It's great for the people at the top pulling money out of their ass and loaning it to the US. Bad for everyone that has to pay for it and the interest.

Still thinks the Treasury should go back to creating the country's money. It is all funny money anyway. I don't know if there is any money backed by precious materials anymore. At some point they realized the backing wasn't necessary for the money to work.

But if the country ditched the FED... we don't go into debt to create money. There must be ways to manage this without inflation and without the FED.


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26574491 - 04/03/20 04:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

He actually said he could pay off the national debt by his next term? That is mind-blowing beyond everything he's ever said before. I don't think he's going to have another term, but if he does it's going to be unpleasant. Right or wrong, there would be absolutely nothing he could get away with blaming somebody else for.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26574840 - 04/03/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
From what Still says in his videos, he's submitted some kind of paper to the White House and thinks it got into the right hands.



Still is an imbecile, who thinks we can just print money to get ourselves out of debt.  Things obviously don't work that way.  Countries have tried it and ruined their currency through hyperinflation.  I don't know why you keep ignoring that very basic fact?

He also wrongfully thinks the Government has to borrow every dollar into existence.  Yes, money CAN be borrowed into existence if we choose to go into debt (that's how fractional reserve banking works), but a) the Government don't have to go into debt in the first place and b) we generally go into debt by selling treasuries for cash that already exists.

Quote:

susurrador said:
Since then Trump boasted that he could pay off the national debt by the end of his next term.



If so, Trump is an idiot.  It won't happen if anyone on his team knows a thing about economics.

Quote:

susurrador said:
From what I gather the main reason we pay Federal income tax is to pay the interest on the national debt...



No.  But because we are currently in so much debt, something like 8% of our income taxes goes towards interest.  But we can fix that as I've stated above - simply by restoring higher taxes on the rich and paying down the debt!

Quote:

susurrador said:
Still thinks the Treasury should go back to creating the country's money. It is all funny money anyway. I don't know if there is any money backed by precious materials anymore. At some point they realized the backing wasn't necessary for the money to work.



But the Treasury DOES still create the country's money.  If Still said otherwise, he's more an imbecile than I thought.  And yes, money isn't backed by precious materials, nor does it need to be.  You can always buy gold if you prefer precious metals.

Quote:

susurrador said:
But if the country ditched the FED... we don't go into debt to create money. There must be ways to manage this without inflation and without the FED.



We don't go into debt to create money.  :banghead:  Though we sometimes create money to go into debt.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26575000 - 04/03/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
Quote:

qman said:

They could print money and make the debt burden go away tomorrow and have real economic growth return on Main Street. They don't want that outcome, they prefer debt slavery and low growth.

Are the theys all the same people here?

Or are the first they: congress and the admin. And the second they: the banks?




The very wealthy which control the banks and ultimately control our fiscal, monetary and tax policy through government.

The Elite want control of resources and debt slavery. There's over $250 trillion of debt globally, the vast majority of that debt is owned by very few hands. That's the result of giving The Elite tax cuts and then having to issue debt which they buy. The more they own, the more power they have over economic policy going forward.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26576637 - 04/04/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
    #26577192 - 04/04/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/04/03/was-fed-just-nationalized

"Did Congress just nationalize the Fed? No. But the door to that result has been cracked open."



Your article states the Fed is currently doing exactly what it was originally designed to do.  The Fed has always been overseen by the Federal Government, so nothing new is going on here.

From your article (and this has ALWAYS been true):

"The benefit of having the Fed rather than private bondholders hold the bonds is that the Fed rebates its profits to the Treasury after deducting its costs, making the loans virtually interest-free. Interest-free loans rolled over indefinitely are in effect free money."

What they don't mention is that the potential downside of doing this is hyperinflation.  But we know that hyperinflation isn't too big a concern during economic downtimes like we're seeing now.  And if it ever starts to become a problem, the Fed simply sells its bonds and take the money back out of circulation.


Your article does say Government is giving the vast majority of the money to Wall St rather than Main St, and I agree with that 100%, and I think that's awful.  But that's Congress' fault, NOT the Fed's.


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26577578 - 04/04/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I don't pretend to understand this issue. I remember being very concerned about the deficit in the late 70's. Yet it just keeps rolling on with more zero's added. One would think at some point it has to come tumbling down, but they just keep rigging the system.

What do you think is the last nail in the coffin scenario, and any guesses on the time frame?




Last nail in the coffin scenario would be a combination of three things:

1) Oil is traded in currencies other than USD

2) USD is no longer the world reserve currency

3) Loss of confidence in the US system

#1 is starting to happen already, Russia and China were talking about dealing in gold. #3 may also be starting to happen. We'll have to see how diplomacy continues after diaper don. If it's guarded but friendly, then we're fine. If they keep laughing at the next POTUS, we're fucked. Another reason for #3 to occur would be yet another disastrous war in the middle east. If we attack Iran and the Millennium Challenge plays out, costing us an aircraft carrier, then #3 will occur.

#2 is directly tied to #3.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26582981 - 04/06/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

A debt reset would be an interesting time to live, thats for sure.

Btw Falcon, good posts, thank you.


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman] * 1
    #26593552 - 04/11/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
there is clear reason to where the printed money goes, it goes directly into the financial system (Wall Street) and never enters Main Street.



Interestingly, a Canadian billionaire said the U.S. government should let hedge funds and billionaire CEOs 'get wiped out' by the coronavirus-induced economic collapse and instead focus its attention on rescuing Main Street.



:tipofthecap:


--------------------
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26593899 - 04/11/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, that interview went all over the internet in short order. At the end of the day, they're going to do whatever they want to do.

In other news.
https://fortune.com/2020/04/09/fed-buying-junk-bonds-corporate-america-federal-reserve-coronavirus/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-junkbonds/junk-bond-prices-rally-after-fed-offers-a-lifeline-idUSKCN21R2HC

Look at this, the Fed is going to print money to buy junk bonds.  This isn't capitalism, it's corporate fascism and it's completely out of control. 

So the Fed can now buy trillions of debt off of highly irresponsible companies to make Wall Street happy, but the idea of helping people with their student loan debt is 'insanity with who is going to pay for it'. :flowstone:

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26593907 - 04/11/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Money printer go BRRRRRR

Good thing we got rid of CFPB oversight into junk lenders, and good thing we got rid of stimulus oversight. That way, nosy people like qman soon won't know where their tax money goes, and what they don't know won't hurt them.

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26601689 - 04/14/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/04/14/coronoavirus-espn-asks-top-commentators-take-pay-cuts/2994329001/

"15% pay cuts over the next three months"

This is what happens when you piss away $50 billion plus in share buybacks the past 10 years!!!

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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26601702 - 04/14/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)


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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
    #26601754 - 04/14/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hate to say I told ya so...but yeah, that's basically what everyone knew was gonna happen.

Remember that next time you vote.

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